UAW: Union Workers Should Be Given Credit for Concessions

I'm none too thrilled about bailing out some high school drop out's $60 an hour assembly line job. The UAW needs to be abolished before the US car buying public is paying $75,000 for a sub-compact car to repay the US car buying public's loan to the automakers.

Gettelfinger said, "I'm not sure exactly what we mean by 'bring wages in line,'"

Duh!! How about lowering wages of EVERYBODY including you, Mr. Gettelfinger!!!

J (Jackass?) Pryor, they do not make $60/hr. Get the facts straight, would ya?!?! The hourly wage is somewhere in th high 20's with healthcare and retirement taking it to around $40. I think the Asian automakers pay about the same.

The American public is being fooled by the media, UAW workers DO NOT make $70 an hour.

The average today is $28 an hour plus benefits that equal about $10 an hour.

The irrational figure of 70 is derived by taking ALL benefits including those paid to retirees and their families and then dividing that figure by the number of current workers, thereby inflating it by 3 times.

Right now the unions are looking a lot more serious and compassionate about the economic woes of the auto industry than the auto industry execs, who come off pretty transparantly as interested primarily in their own wealth and comfort.

Ron Gettelfinger is kidding right? The UAW is most of the reason the auto industry is in trouble. They get paid too much and their health benefits are ridiculously generous. Then after all of that, they turn out a crappy product.

I WORK FOR A SUPPLER FOR GM I DON'T MAKE 43.00 AN HOUR WHEN WE GET LAIDOFF WE ONLY GET UNEMPLOYMENT AND AT THE END OF THE MONTH WE GET LAIDOFF WE NO LONGER HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE, WHEN THE UAW CAN SAY THE SAME THING MAYBE THEN GETTLELFINGER CAN TALK ABOUT ALL THE UAW HAS GIVING UP.

The Oil Co. created this problem ripping the American public off with there price for petrolem products. Why can't they help by giving up some of the BILLIONS they took from US.

Wouldn't giving the UAW credit for making concessions be kind of like giving a thief credit for returning your wallet for the reward?

Abolish the unions, they are just preying those that do not know any better while lining their own pockets. A job should only pay what a company can afford to pay and not what a Union decides. They are sucking the automakers dry.

However know that Obama is behind abolishing the secret ballot which will give the unions more power in their effort to go after Wal-mart.

JR, even if the average is $28 an hour PLUS benefits, that's still way out of line for uneducated, unskilled labor on a plant assembly line. I went to college for 5 years and then worked 15 years in my field before I made that much. I paid my own childcare (no free childcare), I had to pay towards my healthcare benefits, my retirement is an employer match contribution plan (no pension). And when my company downsized,
while I did get 4 months severance pay, I had to wait 4 months before I could apply for unemployment insurance and after 2 months, had to start paying $500 a month to continue my COBRA health insurance until I was rehired. And that was all rather generous by most standards today. So, until the UAW comes close to reality, the auto industry is doomed.

I can't believe the ignorance of those who oppose any U.S. government bridge loans be extended to the U.S. auto industry. Over 4 billion U.S. taxpayer dollars were used to build auto plants in Texas and Alabama for Honda and Toyota but when the domestic auto industry request loans to get them through this housing, credit and world-wide econmic recession there are those who oppose it. We've given away our steel industry, our electronics manufacturing industry, our computer manufacturing industry and now there are those who want to give away our domestic auto industry. Just what kind of country do you want us to be? The U.S. auto industry employs between 4-5 million workers who contribute over 150 billion dollars to the U.S. econcomy each year and represent nearly 20% of each state's revenue. If 4-5 million workers and their families lose their jobs, their homes and their life savings and retirees of the U.S. auto industry lose their pensions this terrible recession will soon explode into a depression tsunami! Not only will a 34 billion dollar bridge loan save 4-5 million U.S. jobs the U.S. auto industry is an integral part of President-Elect Obama's green jobs creation plan and will create thousands of good paying jobs in the near future. The U.S. auto industry employs thousands of scientists, engineers, chemists, research and development professionals, skilled trade personnel, marketing, sales, management level positions and blue collar workers. Each vehicle manufactured uses steel, plastic, glass, rubber, upholstery, springs, washers, screws, state of the art computers and electronics and many more parts too numerous to mention. All these companies who provide these manufactured parts and the numerous component plants employ hundreds of thousands of people. At the end of 2009 and early 2010 nearly all U.S. vehicles will be green hybrids powered by electricity, batteries, hydrogen fuel cells and natural gas that will employ thousands of new workers in good paying jobs. By the way, one of the many concessions the UAW have made was institute a two-tier wage system that pays all new production workers $14.00 an hour. Toyota and Honda of America pay their workers $25.00 an hour. Asian and European countries provide universal health care to everyone and also invest billions of dollars in infrastructure in support of their own domestic auto industries so GM, Ford and Chrysler are not only competing against other car companies they are competing against other countries. Trade pacts also hurt the U.S. carmakers. They are neither fair or free. Last year South Korea exported over 700,000 of their vehicles into the U.S. but the Big 3 could only get less than 10,000 of their vehicles into South Korea. Our trade deficits grow every year and as a result we are losing thousands of manufacturing jobs every year not just by carmakers but by many different U.S. manufacturing companies. So I ask again, what kind of country do you want us to be?

Maybe RobbieSue, you picked the wrong profession. Anyway, I don't argue that the UAW is out of line for the average American, but I take issue with the outrageous lies about what the workers earn. Everyday I see or hear the $70 an hour thrown around and it is a lie. I also take exception to the idea that the workers are UNTRAINED drop outs, most have gone through an apprentice program and are very well trained, There seems to be an idea that assembly workers only put a screw or nut on something all day. It's more involved than you realize.

And another thing RobbieSue, I'm retired from Civil Service and the last 5 years of my career was spent staring at a computer screen all day. My college education was used surfing the internet and playing video games most of the day. There are probably hundreds of thousands of office workers in this country that waste their day as I did and there always will be. Just because some work harder than others doesn't make them less human. It just means that their management is lousy.

It's $28/hour plus benefits for existing workers. New hires come in at $14/hour.

The car companies have been working on getting this under control for years. They're getting rid of the higher cost employees and with VEBA, will no longer be on the hook for healthcare either. If the companies survive the next couple years, they will thrive.

And, though I'm no fan of unions or Mr. Gettelfinger, he made a good point that we are not playing on a level playing field. We let S. Korea import 600,000 cars while they only let each of the Big 3 send 5,000 cars to them.

You'll see action on this by Congress. Ultimately, it is much more expensive to each of us if GM goes under than if we give them a loan. Plus, on the 67th anniversary of Pearl Harbor, everybody should think long and hard that only two generations ago these companies became the "arsenal of democracy". If, heaven forbid, we are ever in that situation again do we really want to count on Toyota, Honda and Volkswagon to make our bombers, tanks and other weaponry? Did you know that a lot of tank parts come from the automotive industry suppliers?

RobbieSue - Auto workers have a right to negotiate for wages just like anyone else. Or would you rather have no say in how you are treated as an employee? Do we want our lives to be run by the corporations or ourselves?

The problems with the American auto industry should be shared among the management, labor, the government, and the American people (it is our government). The auto companies made several bad decisions over the last few decades. Some of them are potentially fatal. Most large and older companies make those kinds of errors. The past errors are today’s problems. Allowing any employee to do substandard work, union or not, will cause a company to fail. The way Detroit created a labor agreement for benefits is the same way the American government, our government, created a retirement agreement for the American people. The retirement benefits are paid by future workers. It is not working for Detroit any more and it will not work for America in the future. The companies and the unions must change to survive.

With the right governmental oversight that has the power to force changes in all stakeholders, the management, unions, and shareholders, General Motors and to a certain degree Ford could become world class companies again fully functional, strong, and profitable. Chrysler needs to be absorbed by someone.

America is the only country that allows foreign auto manufacturers to sell their vehicles without making them jump through hoops plus give them a tax break at the same time. And we wander why Detroit can’t compete with their high labor/legacy costs when the Japanese have protected home turf and low startup and labor costs and no legacy costs in America. I think there is ample blame to go around, including the American people for allowing our government to give away American jobs to foreign companies and by allowing them to sell their products in America but American companies can not do the same in their country. There should be true free trade, not one-way trade! We are going down that same path with China. That is not good for our future, our children’s future, or our grandchildren’s future. Wake up America! How long do you think we can continue to buy foreign goods, reward foreign manufacturing, and not negatively impact our own economy?

Needless to say and anyone with half an education would agree that the reason that the auto giants are in financial crisis is due to the greed of the unions. We don't need unions. The union are also the reason why many manufacturers are out sourcing to other countries. When are we going to wake up and disallow unions.

Those who claim UAW workers only make $28 an hour are missing the point. Because the unions have extorted unreasonable pension plans and unemployment benefits from the Big 3, the overall cost of labor today is nearly $71/hr. You cannot just discount the cost of these nonproductive workers. If the unions really are serious they should immediately end the pension payments and allow the Big3 to close underperforming plants without paying salaries to the workers who are let go. This is how every other business works and until the US automakers are given back this flexibility nothing will change. The UAW is a cancer on the Big3 and it will ultimately kill these companies that have provided so much to them over the years. Bankruptcy followed by throwing out all existing union contracts concerning pensions, unemployment, automation, vendor facility sharing, and pay is the only way to truly make the companies viable again. If we bailout the companies today the unions will simply wait until the financial situation improves a little and they will once again go back to extorting more unreasonable concessions from the companies, harming their competitiveness until they finally collapse completely.

ock59801 said, "Auto workers have a right to negotiate for wages just like anyone else. Or would you rather have no say in how you are treated as an employee? Do we want our lives to be run by the corporations or ourselves?"

We as individuals have the right to leave our companies at any time. We are not bound to them and if they are poor employers they will not find willing employees. This will harm their ability to succeed. However, gaining basic employer rights is not what unions are about today. They seek to blackmail corporations through the threat of labor strikes to gain concessions that are simply not reasonable. These concessions are foolish since they harm competitiveness and force employers to move their plants to other countries. Until the unions begin to act in the best interest of BOTH their companies and their members they are the problem. The bailout for the automakers doesn't address limiting any of the powers used by the unions and until it does there should be no money sent to Detroit. It will simply be throwing good money after bad until the union problem is fixed. Bankruptcy and throwing the unions out completely may be the only hope for fixing the manufacturing sector of the US economy.

Since so many want to tie any bailout with major changes to union contracts and management turnover, I would like to ask when do any of you think a bailout could be placed in effect? March, July, next December or maybe 2010? GM says it will fail NEXT month, do we wait till after it has failed to attempt help?

Unless you have worked on the assembly line don't "assume" you know what it's like. If you are a big college grad that doesn't make $60,000 a year is that my fault? Why didn't you do a little research into your field to see what salary you would be making? I started working at GM for 12 bucks and hour and I suppose when we got raises I should have turned them down because I am stupid and untrained. I invite all of you that critize to do my job for one day and see what it's like to go home and be too tired to enjoy all that money I make. Pearl Harbor was attacked by the Japanese but now Toyota is loved by Americans that forget our history. Why is it that you don't hear anything from the workers at Toyota and about the "permatemps" the people that work years before getting benefits and increased wages. If American auto companies do not survive then it's going to be a disaster for us all.

regardless of whether Congress decides to give the Detroit 3 a bridge loan or not, the estimated cost of 34 Billion is only the beginning. the fact is these are gigantic companies with thousands of employees; not counting the thousands of smaller companies in the auto industry. aside, the UAW and its members need to realize that they are working for private companies that relies solely on selling goods and services to the general public. that said, they are not working for a company with unlimited resources. unlike a local, state and federal government who can simply write legislation and tax people or print money, private companies fundamentally have very limited resources when it comes to generating revenue to pay for its debts and liabilities. heck, even local and state government really doesn't have unlimited resources. just take a look at California. aside, i think the union members, president of UAW and the management of Detroit 3 have forgotten this very basic and fundamental fact and truism: regardless of how large or gigantic the company is and how far reaching their lobbying arms are in Washington, the Detroit 3 is still a private company that depends mainly on the general public to buy its goods and services. And as the show biz people know, the public is very fickle. better yet, as the business people know, the customer is king. the UAW president needs to realize this fact and send this message to his fellow team members.

Disband the UAW and allow the restructuring of the "Big 3" without the high cost of worthless union labor.

http://disbandtheuaw.com

Look, as I noted above, I'm no fan of the UAW and the largess (and noose) it created around the Big 3.

But, to discount the effect of unions in this country is to forget history altogether. This reverse-Alzheimer's, where we forget our own history from only a few generations ago, is our doom. Undoing the regulations of the Great Depression was a great idea, right? Pure capitalism wants the Big 3 to go bankrupt and is anti-union and anti-regulation. Unions are necessary when government does not act (or won't act because we're not socialist or communist) to protect the rights of workers. Some have argued that there would be no middle class without unions.

So, say what you will about the Big 3 and the UAW. There are lots of justifiably negative comments about them. But please read your history books on why unions came into place before you disparage the lot of them.

And, for just a moment, imagine what happens if you let GM fail at this point in time. The stock market will drop 1000 points overnight and maybe 2000 points over a couple weeks. Do you understand how much market cap will be lost? Do you realize that those relying on 401ks in their retirement will have lost 50% or more of what they were planning to live on? The cost of bailing those folks out will be staggering. The economic consequences of them failing is too cataclysmic to chance.