Legalities

We are just angering our Lord....this is so stupid! I guess we have given up on this country....

There is no Lord. There are however people who love one another and want to commit to lasting relationships with the rights and benefits afforded other couples by the state and society.

What do we care what goes on in other people's bedroom .

If they want to join the club and be miserable like straigh people so be it.

What I really don't understand is why people think that allowing gay men and lesbians to marry harms marriage. If Tom and Rick are allowed to marry, how does that harm my marriage to my husband? Or your marriage to your spouse (if you are married)? This is the most ridiculous argument. Allowing all citizens to have equal rights is what we do in this country and we're working toward that goal. We'll get there and in my lifetime.

I really don't have anything against gays or others alike. It's whatever float your boat, but to legalize same sex marriages is ridiculous.

Texas

Our forefathers are turning in their graves, and God in heaven is shaking his head in disbelief that his children could be so evil. Let's hope that what happens in California stays in California until God takes his mighty hand and sweeps that state into the ocean.

Lets them get married, who cares. We are about to elect the first African American President, a person with no experience, wicked judgement, phony friends, etc. So gays getting married in California is nothing. Don't we have gays already in Congress, including the "Happy Feet" Senator? Don't we already have hypocrisy in our own bedrooms, so called str8 people cheating with men and women?

Other countries have legalized gay married including Canada, Spain, Holland, France, Mexico, etc. and the world didn't end. So let's move, whatever they do in the private household is none of my business.

Wow, California swept into the ocean? I belive in God and live in California. I'm going too? I think it's time for all people to be treated equal. I know this means homosexuals will receive the same rights as other married people but It also means some are going to have to experience the beauty of divorce as well!! Make sure to sign a pre-nup

Till every American is valued and is treated equal under the law we risk the danger of becoming a society ruled by big brother. How do you legislate love and commitment? I am a christian and it always amazes me how my fellow chirtians feel they should have a monopoly on commitment and love. Shame on us.

Why are those who constantly preach that religion/God brings love into all peoples hearts are the same ones who hate and judge the most. My wife and I are very happy this finally accured. I have a strong feeling God loves everyone and wants all people to be happy

As it was in the days of Sodom and Gororrah; so will it be in the last days. Bring it on.

A great day for the country - the court stood for the constitution, for eqaul protection under the law, and against discrimination. Congratulations to California and the court justices who struck a blow against bigotry and hatred.

There was a time oh about 45 years ago or so when a white person who would marry a black person would and had gone though all kinds of awful things... Now they made it, so why not the gays? If you look in the bible it was not to be for the racial interaction. But hey we're still here!
So now give us a break, if we go to hell thats on us no one else..

I guess this new right to redeine marriage means polygamy will now be legal also.

Most of you prove that LIBERALISM IS A MENTAL DISORDER.
What the hell gives 4 liberal judges the right to thwart the will of the people.
This is liberal judicial activism at it's worst. Why the hell are liberals so afraid to let the people vote on this and decide it for themselves? Because they know they would lose. Most Americans are against gay marriage and the radical left knows it.
And don't give me this garbage about civil rights. There is no right to gay marriage in the state or U.S. Constitution. I'd like one liberal to show all of us so-called homophobes where in the Constitution is the right to gay marriage

Kelly that is a stupid statement, marriage is between two people. Gay marriage is between 2 people as well.

Let's see - our country was founded on freedoms including Freedom of Religion. It was this same persecution of the Church and its zealots that our founders came here and established a new country from - to not be persecuted bu someone else's beliefs. So I seriously doubt that the true founders of our country are rolling in their graves. It has been shown that homosexuality is more than 'a choice' as many would try to convince us. It's even been found in the animal and insect kingdoms. If it is such a sin why would God create these animals and insects to be homosexual as well or were these smaller beings somehow 'recruited'? So get real. There is no LOGICAL or SCIENTIFIC reason for gays and lesbians to be denied marriage. There are far more hetereosexual sinners than homosexual. So until you are perfect and can walk on water and heal the sick, stop judging. That's something only the Lord can do - and that's from your own Bible.

It isn't about letting people do what they want or about equal this or that. The problem with what was done in California is two-fold.
First, as someone posted earlier, when 4 judges can decide by a 4-3 decision to thwart the democratic will of 35 million people. It shows that our democracy is on thin ice. You people have got to get with it and see the damage that activist judges can cause. The citizens of Cali made a decision and the Gay capital of the world, San Francisco decided to sue. Now here is what is going to happen. Some gay couple will go to another state after getting married in Cali, and try to force that state to recognize their marriage. When that state doesn't, they will sue in Federal Court claiming diversity jurisdiction for that court (that their dispute involves the laws of 2 different states) and the case will get removed to the 9th circuit, the most liberal Federal circuit, also the most overturned, and try to make this Federal Law.

The worst thing about it is the disingenuousness of liberals as they try to foist this practice on society. Someone posted earlier, that there are "gay animals." I say this: lets take one of your supposed male pairs of gay animals, lets put them in an enclosed place and introduce a female in estress of their species into the equation and see what happens. If one of the males mates with the female, then doesn't that make these "gay animals" at worst bi-sexual? What if, as happens in the wild, the two males fight to determine which of them will be the alpha male? What will that mean then?

Hell is only filled by those with hatred in thier souls. To love is not a sin. The Bible says "to hate the sin, not the sinner" and for us "to love thy neighbor". I take to heart many of the Bible's lessons for they are profound. With that said, there are many out there who wish me ill because I am different. I hope that they see what these lessons of the Bible and Christ are really about before it's too late. For them, I shall pray and keep them in my heart. Because for us to be forgiven our trespasses, we must forgive those who have trespassed aginst us.

And for those in California who are celebrating their victory: YOU GO, GIRL!

Here's the thing: even though gay marriage is only legal in two states now, the precedence that California has set will likely mean that more states will follow. California is a large state, and it's pretty awesome to be witnessing history.

Thank you Kris.
Greg & Jimmy: Why should you get to play God? It's amazing that you could actually see God....shaking his head and our forefathers rolling in their graves at this issue vs. the condition the Bush regime left our country in. Families can't afford groceries nor gas! God! What's more amazing is that you have contempt and hate in your hearts and call yourselves Christian. Are these Christian values? Are you getting heaven points for this? Does that make God more proud of you than tolerant compassionate people? I don't believe Jesus Christ walked around with hate and contempt in his heart. Why do you? I wonder why God hasn't swept all of you divorced, adulteratin, hatin folks into the ocean? Maybe because he's not a hateful, wrathful God after all but an unconditionally-loving, all-forgiving God who granted us the blessing of self will to fully experience life and its consequences. According to your reasoning, "Till death do we part" could be a law in which case, you would be executed when divorced:) It's been heterosexual marriages that have ruined the institution of marriage & families. Not same-sex marriages! They haven't even existed until recently.
AND if you're a minority: don't be a hypocrite! Don't forget it wasn't long ago you didn't have certain unalienable equal rights either! SHAME on YOU!
Honestly Blanche!

Most true Christians do have real compassion for those who are gay. We take the Bible at its word though when God said that homosexuality was wrong. If you go back through history, you will see that every society that crumbled, crumbled because of their weak faith in God and their decaying morals. History has been known to repeat itself...and I hope it ddoesn't happen to us. We are a young country. We still think we're invincible...WEll 911 put a kink in that one. We wonder why radical Muslims want to take over America...Well, we have horrible morals and want to kill unborn babies and say that homosexuality is ok....hmmm go figure.

I have friends that are gay, but I am a very conservative Christian. My closest friend of this one couple has admitted to me that she is gay because of horrible abuse that happened to her over and over again when she was little. She chooses this lifestyle because of her past. I was flbbergasted when she was so honest with me and admitted that she is definately gay because of the abuse. I thought all gay people whether men or women would fight to an inch of their lives to say they were born that way. Also, my former sister in law and her own sister are gay. They had a drunken father who abused them and used to beat them up...hmmm....are we getting the picture? I can handle that people want to be gay. But hey...stop saying that you were born like this. It's time...REALLY time for this idea to COME OUT OF THE CLOSET.

Also, I realize that some people are gay and they don't remember anything bad about their childhood. But there is research that very powerful forces in the U.S. won't let this information and research out, that various kinds of abuse or rejection can also cause specially in men to become gay. A father who just ignores his son and a mother who dotes too much on him can cause a man to be gay. But every male is different and one guy who is able to cope with this in childhood is fine. But another one due to personality differences maybe needed more fatherly bonding as a child. A well known statistic about abuse is if you were abused, you have a 50-50 chance of being abusive. Well, I don't think it's as high as 50-50, but I do think that more people are gay due to neglect/rejection or some kind of abuse that's done over and over than someone who was "born" to be that way. Well...woohoo....I know I'm going to get some flak. But hey...I've been a good observer of people for many years and have seen friends and relatives struggle with this issue. Every one of them had abuse or neglect thrown in with a doting-love smothering or hateful, abusive mom.
The whole point of all the gay people wanting these gay rights is that they feel they were born that way so they deserve rights just like any other race and sometimes liken themselves as a race which of course as mentioned makes the minorities very upset. I wish I had a magic bandaid that would make all the hurt go away that any gay person had from childhood. My heart goes out to you. I don't know all the answers. I just know what God said was right.

As Christians, we need to pray for our country, get on our knees and fast and pray every week at least one day corporately together. Ok...let's pick Tuesays....Tuesday it is.

Prayer is powerful. Tuesday is "Pray for Our Country Day". Try to fast for at least one meal. Please pray with me that we would go back to our Judeo-Christian roots and seek the one true God. Believe that His word is true. Just trust Him on this and our country will start to be blessed again.

All I'm saying is ...if you want to be gay, fine. But don't say you were born that way. Gays want to put themselves equal with Hispanics, Asians, African Americans, etc. In many cases, this infuriates minorities.

DO I think some people were truly born that way? Well, maybe there might be some. But it's more a mistake of nature than they were innately born to be that way.

I would love to see more gay people be honest about their homosexuality. But there's an agenda to push. So for most. I realize that there might be some gay people out there who really can't think of anything that happened to them...hmmm like the guy I know who got a sex change. He was treated like a girl by his relatives when they went back to the midwest and was put in girl's clothes when his dad was at work. He was only three. His mom was overbearing and cruel. His dad was an alcoholic and didn't give him positive fatherly love and didn't bond with him.
So don't give me this stuff about you were born this way, ok?

Natalia - why would anyone willfully choose to be a part of a hated and misunderstood minority? I sure didn't, but here I am, gay as ever. Can we please take this discussion beyond the third-grade level?

Hahaha it is interesting to see how much the socialists in Cali actually value democracy. 61% of people in Cali vote against somethine democratically, yet it is ok for 4 judges to overturn it at their whim? What a ridiculous and dangerous precedent to set, but for liberals I guess it is ok to take a dump on democracy whenever it is convenient for their "cause". It just goes to show that totalitarianism is their ultimate goal. I don't have a moral problem with gay people, it is just totally ridiculous to think that we should make special rights for them. Marriage is a ridiculous institution, and anyone who really cares either way should go ahead and remove themselves from the gene pool, people on both sides of the argument are totally ridiculous. At this point christians/conservatives are a bunch of whiney impotent fools just like democrats. Why do all the ############# who think that anyone cares about their religion ?And why do liberals want government intervention every time someone steps on their toes? How about some personal responsibility to go with your smarmy condescending attitude? I guess that's too much to ask. You are all totally worthless , whiney, and useless, and you would never even think about doing except whining and complaining. Republicanism has become inherently entwined with a ridiculous religion, yet liberalism is a ridiculous religion in itself, complete with ridiculous fantastical ideals that will never work and people that foam at the mouth with the ferver of religious zealots.

And I say unto thee, who is it that thumbs their nose at the will of the people. Elected Officials, Judges and other miscreants that beileve they know more than the populice for whom they have been choosen to serve. Therefore the populice should smite these indivisuals from their ranks that they currently hold and forever shame them on their betrayal of the position they were elected too. Of course this is too much to ask of the sheep - they are too busy trying to find gas to put in their car so they can make it to work. Another issue for which elected officials should be held accountable for - and won't be.

I am so happy this is finally happening. What someone does with their personal love life is their business. Anyone who let's someone else's love life bother them so much needs to get a life! Everyone in this country should have the same equal rights, including marriage! Otherwise, we are all hypocrites for calling the USA Land of the free, of equal opportunity, etc.! Our society has such a long way to go.

To say gay marriage harms straight marriage is hysterical, its obviously said by people afraid of something or ignorant about life.

Also, God also said to have SLAVES, but we have obviously overcome that. If your going to preach the bible, preach the whole thing. The whole women hating, daughter raping and slave owning bible, dont pick out what parts you like and ignore the rest!

Who cares! Like Marriage is a sacred institution now anyway. Ever heard of who wants to marry a millionaire?

This whole issue is very simple:

If you don't like/are against/refuse to believe in/etc in gay marriage, then don't get one...you will not be happy.

As far as what everyone else chooses to do in their personal lives, different strokes for different folks.

Today, the special rights for heterosexuals end.

I find it quite insulting when others bring GOD into this subject. I feel that its gods decision to do what he feels, and no other man shall judge another on any one sin they decide. How dare you! Shame on you for inflicting your judgemental thoughts. You shall burn for every hateful judgement that that you have said.

I feel that if a man and a man decide to marry then so be it. It has nothing to do with me or my lifestyle. What they strave for in there household has nothing to do with how my household is brought up.

I find it quite funny when one of you conservatives have a child and he/she becomes gay. They please tell me will you then deprive your child of happiness? and if so what gives you that right?

The Founding Fathers can roll around in their graves for eternity for all I care. I'm a woman. The Founding Fathers didn't even view me as a person. They can bite my butt, and so can all the people whining about gay marriage! Go MA! Go CA! About time! :D

hEY FOLKS-WAKE UP...THE ISSUE HERE, AND IT'S A BIG DISTURBING ONE, IS THAT THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE WAS IGNORED. fANCY LAWYERING IS WHAT PUSHED THIS THROUGH, NOT BECAUSE MASSES AND MASSES OF CALIFORNIANS WANTED IT. VERY SCARY INDEED. PERSONAL OPINION ASIDE, CALIFORNIA IS A SCARY PLACE TO BE.

Truly, I wish these content to go to hell liberals, esp. those in power could be swept into another country, lets say Cuba or whatever. "And the wicked shall be turned into hell & all the nations that forget God.

The best part about this issue is that people on both sides are equally ridiculous and laughable. Firstly, we have people who want to pretend that they are special because they can get married, and that God cares about them. Then on the other side we have people who think that as long as it makes people happy, everyone should be able to do anything they want, well I personally have no problem with polygamy, but I don't think I'll be spending a lot of effort to get it legalized. Why not let people that like animals get married to a horse or a dog if that's what makes them happy, or let people marry their own children ? Isn't that a cultural thing too? Why would gay people want to get married anyay? So they can play house together? All marriage is is two people pretending that they are special, in the eyes of god no less, because they live together, have sex together, and maybe raise some kids together. Why can't they do all of these things without a little piece of paper that says it's ok? Why cant they just have a ceremony without all the legality and BS? What do they really want? The certificate? The tax break? Or do they just want something to complain about not being able to do? I think that like most people in CA, they just want to whine about something that is totally irrelevent and ridiculous. How many people have died in Iraq while you are arguing about two dudes right to play house together? How much money has been pilfered from tax payers directly to multinational corporations while this debate rages on? Leave it to America to argue about something so asinine while we as a country get collectively screwed. How is this an issue? Ridiculous people on the right want to "preserve the institute of marriage" so that they will have something that makes them feel special and better than all the hethens, while people on the right want to legalize gay marriage just to rebel against the "old ways", like a teenager rebelling against his parents. Both sides are childish and spiteful and are more concerned about "Striking a blow for their cause" than they are about actually standing up for things that matter. I could care less about the "institution of marriage" and the only thing I care about less than that is gay people's right to pretend to be a normal family. My only opinion on the situation comes to the fact that the people who support gay marriage also support censorship,hate crime laws,the welfare state,affirmative action , and gun control, and are thusly in favor of a racist, totalitarian, socialist state in which speaking or thinking the wrong thing can land you in prison, and the only people with guns are insane criminals and power-hungry cops. It's just too bad that the people who are against gay marriage want a theocracy with forced prayer in schools, and are for drug laws that take away our rights and freedom, and want to give tax money to religious groups/private schools,and illegalize abortion, which is one of the only things keeping the population at bay. No thanks, I think I'll stay in favor of freedom to say and do whatever you want as long as it doesn't infringe anyone else's freedom, and a secular government that uses logic and common sense over ridiculous dogma. It is too bad that both sides of any issue are more concerned with insane fantastical ideologies than they are with actual practical solutions to ACTUAL problems( unlike whether or not rod and lance can get a tax break while they pretend to be husband and wife).

Read the decision before railing against it.

The question for the Justices was this: is it legal to call a contractual agreement between person of different sexes one thing and then call another contract, with substantially the same meaning, but between same sex individuals something else. Marriage and Domestic Partnerships, in legal terms are equivalent, so why call them by different names? The only reason, the Justices concluded, was to discriminate against gays, which in their opinion, is contrary to the California Constitution. That’s it.

Proposition 22 changed a California statute not the California Constitution. And the CA Constitution prevails over statute... and not even the “will of the people” can prevail over the CA Constitution.

Now, whether the CA Constitution will be changed, that’s another thing. I am sure it’s in the works. But frankly, why? Those who so rail against gays for destroying marriage should work on their own relationships before castigating others.

And for those who call this anti-marriage... I say on the contrary. This decision upholds the institution of marriage as something worth fighting for.

After 10,000 years of success in marriages throughout the ages, in 2008 we all of a sudden decided to rewrite the definition because we're in a "new age." Isn't that a little presumptuous? It's amazing that when people stand for marriage, they're called "anti gay." It's called pro family. And family values are evaporating all around us. Stand for something, people! What kind of world do you want to raise your children in? Clearly, the large majority of people in CA want to preserve family values, yet it was struck down based on a constituitional loophole. I'm seeing such a lack of backbone. Change it! Other states have done it, so can California. To you gay people; be gay. That's fine with me, but I want marriage right where it is; between a man and a woman.

The unfortunate thing about gay marriage coming by means of the courts rather than the legislature is that when the courts overturn something as unconstitutional, they often have to use a broad brush that permits no compromise. The California Supreme Court has now declared gays to be a protected class, meaning that strict scrutiny applies and full spectrum of the state's anti-discrimination powers must be deployed.

This may mean:
-That religious schools and charitable organizations that have a moral objection to homosexuality will lose their discretion not to hire gays.

-That, as in Massachusetts, the adoption arm of Catholic Charities and other similar organizations will be forced to place children with gay couples or lose their licenses.

-That, should the government of California set up a general program to detect those that have moral objections to homosexuality and fire them, or should the state's colleges institute a similar program with the purpose of denying admission to similar undesirables, such acts would be legitimate under the state constitution.

-Artificial procreative techniques are developing in a line that inevitably ends with designer babies. Suppose California wants to prohibit this sort of thing. The law doing so would have a "disparate impact" because gays cannot conceive naturally. It may well not survive the "strict scrutiny" the court's decision now requires.

The legislature can recognize the reality on the ground and craft compromises that may not pass a purity of principle test but do balance the competing interests of different constituencies. The courts usually have to act on broad principle, which makes such prudential and freedom-maximizing compromises impossible.

Just because some people ignored the voice of the people... Doesn't mean they have the last word.Marriage is what takes place between one man and one woman. That will prevail for those who are making up the majority of the people. The right to procreate and keep the human family going, does not take place between same sex people. I will leave everything up the the Creator. Just as it was in the "Days of Noah," so it shall be in the last days.

Where should I start...first of all I am a lesbian with a lesbian girlfriend and I do have two kids. Some of you are right to say that us gay people do not need a piece of paper claiming that we are a union of two people that are in love and want to form a family. And you might also be right to say that it's not right for two men or two women to raise children because of moral values. Now let's focus on the marriages of yesterday and today....men and women being unfaithful to each other within the marriage(and let's not forget it has always happened) the children of these marriages being hurt and scarred because of all their infidelities. Oh and let's not forget about the abused(physically and sexually) children of these marriages and how the cycle continues on into these children's adult lives. So now let me ask again which marriage is right for society.

Maybe us gay people don't need a peice of paper to let the world and the lord know that we are in love with each other but obviously the straight people need one to screw up their children's lives. To have the right to beat on their wives and equally both to cheat on each other.

So many children are caught up in orphanges and homeless and there are so many gay couples seeking to raise kids but of course straight people would rather leave them forgotten in the system then see those children being raised in a loving home with either two fathers or two mothers.....come on people give me a break.

I'm not playing house with my partner.I'm living life with her and my kids. We consider this a family and all it comes with it. Bills, payments, kids, clothes, school, family members, arguements(sometimes about stupid stuff) and love for each other. My son knows how to respect men and women or girls and boys. He knows that he will respect me and my partner. He has ironed clothes every morning when he is getting ready for school. He comes home from school and immediately gets started on his homework. Where is this not sounding like we are serious about our commitment. Since I do go to work and pay bills and make sure that my kids grow up with love and respect for other people. So in which case since straight people can get married legally and their marriages are still screwed up why not let the gay people get married and show you straight people how to actually have a normal life.

The bible is a book. lets say for a minute god was behind it. Men still had the final desision on editing. And who wrote the law...the constitution...oh yah, men. Man is flawed, always looking for someone to hate as far back as history goes. The system is certainly flawed. im gay and i was never abused...I know people who were abused as strait as an arrow. and it means nothing to me that the majority of people would have voted against gay marrige...Not to long ago the majority of people would have voted against intagration, and before that womans rights. when are people gonna stop repeating the mistakes of the past. We all have our own experiences and reasons for beliving what we do... i understand that. And it's no ones falt. but im an american and i deserve my rights.

The chapter isn't closed in California yet and the jury is out as to whether this narrow majority ruling will actually hold up under voter scrutiny in November. A Survey USA poll released earlier this week strongly suggests that it won't, with Californians saying that would approve amending their state constitution to prohibit same-sex marriage by a margin of 52%-36%. With such a majority support problem in California, it's clear that Texas won't permit nonsense like this anytime soon. Don't forget that Proposition 2 to the Texas Constitution was approved by a more than 3 to 1 margin in late 2005.

I have a feeling that the California ruling could actually result in more setbacks for homosexuals in California and around the nation than anything positive. For instance, Florida and Arizona will also likely have ballot measures this year. This gives almost unlimited fuel to supporters of these amendments.

The United States Supreme Court's summary decision in Baker v. Nelson, 409 U.S. 810 (1972), is still the law of the land as a matter of Federal Constitutional law. Traditional marriage laws DO NOT violate the United States Constitution.

The Court recognized that marriage is a State issue and that States are free to set forth their own policy on the issue.

The Homosexual Activist attempt to usurp the Full Faith and Credit Clause won't work. Not only is there a public policy exception to the clause, the Clause specifically gives Congress the right to provide the manner in which the clause takes effect. Congress has done so with the 1996 Federal DOMA signed by William Jefferson Clinton.

The message came to me that "I am so sick of these liberal activist judges creating law" ... actually, these aren't liberal judges at all. And if we read the reasoning behind this decision we will find that they compared it to interracial marriage ... which was not legalized until 1967. And for those who believe they have a right to vote as to whether someone else can marry the person they choose ... you might consider who voted for your marriage? Black civil rights, a woman's right to vote, interracial marriage ... none of these would be legal today if they were dependent on the popular vote. The Power of Love was at work in this decision ... and that is the work of God ... accept it, believe it ... and love one another!

Why are people so eager to cede the privilege of granting the status of marriage to the government in the first place?

I have never in my life heard one single good justification as to why the government is in the business of licensing marriages.

I can understand using the courts as the arbiter of disputes under a legal contract, which ideally marraige should be (yet isn't, and hasn't been since the advent of no-fault divorce, as a contract by its very nature requires the party who breaks it to be punished), but to cede to the state the privilege of requiring a license to even draw up that contract is both ridiculous and dangerous.

If people hadn't given up to the state what the should have kept private, the gay marriage debate would not, could not have ever occured in this country.

This from a straight, southern Christian woman: all you anti-gay haters hiding behind cries of "they're activist judges, they went against the will of the people" need to own up to your prejudice. There is nothing 'activist' about a judge examining existing constitutional and statutory material and determining whether a U.S. citizen is being denied equal rights. That is what judges are for. Just because YOU don't like the people they ruled in favor of doesn't mean their ruling was legally inappropriate.

It used to be illegal for a black man to marry a white woman in this country. It also used to be legal to ban minorities from higher education. Those folks had to push for the right to do the same things as everyone else, and believe me, it wasn't the will of the people at the time. They won those rights because they are INALIENABLE. Either everyone in this country is allowed to stand on the same legal footing, or we are indeed not a democracy.

Everyone talks about the US being a democracy. Thankfully we're not. In fact the US is a Republic and we're bound by the rule of law and not the rule of man. The rule of law protects minorities from the mob mentality of the majority. In case you don't believe me, look up the definition of both.

To put this all in perspective, just think if people were allowed to vote to amend state constitutions to prohibit inter-racial marriage. Though I'm sure that many of those railing against same-sex marriage would vote in favor of outlawing different races to marry, there are many more people who find that idea ludicrous. The public outcry against this type of thinking would be deafening.

The Bible has always been used as a basis for arguments in favor of restricting people's rights for many decades. Fortunately, our Founding Fathers were wise enough to not declare a state religion and save us from a "theocracy". For those of you who think that religion should rule our lives, I suggest you move to Iran or Saudi Arabia - oh wait, those are Muslim theocracies and they worship the "wrong" God, never mind. Actually, maybe they should go there, as practicing of Christianity or the attempt to convert people to Christianity is punishable by death. Sounds like a great way to run a country to me (typed with heavy sarcasm).

Politics and religion should never mix. Everyone should be free to attend the church of their choice but the laws of the land should not be based on any particular group's ideas of morality.

I'm intrigued when people say that the "will of the people" was thwarted by four of seven judges.

What does that mean?

Didn't even the most basic Civics class you took explain the checks and balances between the Executive, Legislative and Judicial branches of our Federal and, in California's case, State government?

The judges are placed in their positions by the people for the protection of the state constitution. A job which they take seriously, no doubt, and for which they are extremely well qualified. They've done nothing to thwart the "will of the people" but instead of guided the laws according to what the state constitution demands. It's precisely the right decision. It's not a loophole, it's not a rash decision, it's not something against the people.

In this country's last great Civil Rights struggle, in the South, against racial discrimination, the Federal Supreme Court likewise made the correct decision to keep us on the straight and narrow. A decision (or series of decisions) that were similarly decried as "thwarting the will of the people."

My State has issued me a driver license and a concealed weapon license. Anyone who thinks California same sex marriages need to recognized by all States care to tell me how the full faith and credit clause applies to the latter of my duly issued licenses?

I fought in the war to treat all citizens equally. No one should be a "second-class" citizen. For the religious fanatics, separation of church and state means nothing to you? Our forefathers would turn in their graves if they knew how the fanatics were abusing religion in the government. If we kept the nation stagnate, slavery, women being lesser people, inter-racial coupling, and torture would still be allowed. KKK members and other fanatics share ideals with those who oppose equal rights for the GLBT community. I support equal rights because I am a combat veteran who fought for them.

I don't care a whit what two consenting adults want to do between themselves. But I do care a great deal about the sanctity of words. The word "marriage" has a definition and has had one for thousands of years, and it meant one man and one woman. If you want men and men or women and women, let's make up a new word for that union, not steal an old word, like was done with "gay."

I can understand both sides of this issue and the real crux of it to me, is the legal union of two people and the spiritual/religious union of them. While I personally have nothing against the spiritual/religious union of two men or two women (after all, as many have pointed out, a man/woman marriage sure isn't guaranteed to be free fo hate and/or strife), the real point is if two people so decide, they should have full legal protections as a couple. That means the right to cover each other with their health insurance, leave their life insurance to each other and make decisions regarding that person just as a spouse has the right to do so under certain conditions. I don't believe gays and lesbians can force people to accept their right to be "married" but they should certainly be protected under a civil union. To date our marriages have served as both, creating a spiritual/religious bond as well as a legal one. At the very least we need a consistent national agreement that same sex partnerships can have that legal union.

I don't believe that states "marriages" should have to be recognized in other states, but there should be a civil or legal union that has to be honored. All sorts of messes will be created when a couple who is legally "married" in one state moves or travels to another state. The legal union must go with them, otherwise a whole can of worms will be opened up regarding child custody rights, inheritance rights, etc.

Jim - the sanctity of words means more to you than people's lives - their ability to have health insurance, to raise their children, to be at their loved ones' bedsides when they die? That's cold. Here's another set of words that should hold deep meaning for us Americans: "liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

Also, you fail at word meanings:

1) Marriage has been one of the most changeable institutions there is - it variously means one man and one woman, one man and many women, occasionally one woman and several men; sometimes the woman isn't a woman at all, but a child - not just in the past but still in many parts of the world. If you're so upset about the sanctity of marriage being sullied, why not focus your anger on the polygamist sects that are abusing young girls (and boys too sometimes) on a daily basis?

2) "Gay" is not a 'stolen' word. It has been documented to have been used to mean both 'happy' and 'homo' since at least Chaucer's time. Know how long ago Chaucer lived?

NATALIA - My sister is gay and neither one of us was ever abused, our parents have been married almost 50 great years, I know lots of other gay people that were never ever abused. Our Dad is the best, most loving and kind Dad in the world. Are you straight because you were abused by a gay person? I think not. Your thinking is not logical at all. If I was to follow your thinking, then you are actually gay but you CHOOSE to be straight. Look at that woman that escaped the polygamist compound and was on Nightline. She was repeatedly abused by Warren Jeffs yet she is married to a man now, she is not gay. I know many women that have been abused and are not gay, this is not why people are gay. The only choice gays make about this is to be themselves and come out, as opposed to stay closeted, pretending to be straight. They choose to be themselves.

FYI: the court in CA that approved gay marriage is majority Republican, so enough of the "activist liberal judge nonsense"

Let's remember another time and reflect on the consequences...Many, many years ago, this same sex foolishness was rampant and what happened? Did God say: "well, these aberrant people have the same rights as normal people so I will allow them to exist and perpetuate their behaviour by teaching the young and innocent to behave in a way that is abominable to Me"?
No, He eradicated them and their cities.
Something should be learned from that, no?

What I'm curious about is how no one has looked at the ratio of the votes against gay marriage in CA: 61% against...hmm, 11% more than 50%... We have had elections recounted over a percentage larger than that!

Also, the only thing I have ever seen as a threat agaisnt marriage is divorce. So maybe we should ban divorce...oh wait, not exactly in the public interest, huh?

Just because you have an issue with homosexuals (seeing as how "gay" typically refers to men and "lesbian" refers to women) doesn't mean they should be denied the rights afforded to everyone else. Maybe homosexuals (or straight people for that matter) have an issue with you, how about they deny you some of the rights you love so much!

How about everyone take a moment and think about this, really think about it...what if it was you, how would you feel?

As you can see, I am very disheartened by the rhetoric that I hear from both sides. We always wonder how people can be so filled with hate in other parts of the world that they resort to displacing whole populations or eradicating them altogether. Take a look at what's being said on this forum and you will not have to wonder any longer.

For my fellow Christians: I hope the mercy and love of Christ and his example lead you to the realization that he loved even you in your sin and you deserve death no more or less than the rest of us . . . God saves by grace in our sin, not by works in our righteousness . . . and certainly not by wishing violence and death on others.

For my non-Christians: Please do not confuse the law of the Old Testament with the grace and mercy of the New Testament. The Christ came to show mercy and put an end to the law. You also have to remember: Many Christians will be answering directly to Jesus for the way that they represented him on Earth. Some of them have posted messages on this board. Many people have quips denouncing or applauding Christianity with very little research or knowledge about it. It is a fact that most "Christians" do not even read the Bible. Would you listen to a scientist speak about Global Warming if he had never looked at any documentation about it and was just able to spit out what was told to him? Or would you research it for yourself?

On that note I would like to encourage some recommended reading: Evidence that Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell is a very thorough set of books (2 of them) that answers a lot of questions about the validity of the Bible.

Also, you should look up Daniel Chapter 7, verse 4. Sounds a little like England and America, doesn't it. Prophecy is alive and happening all around us. If that's true and this prophecy has only come about in the past 300 years, think of the prophecy that has not yet happened and cannot be interpreted yet.

I have gone on a little long, so I will end with a cliche: If you're living like there isn't a God, you had better be right. And you had better not be listening to the numbskulls perpetuating hate in the name of Christ. They'll be sharing a room with Hitler before too long.

If individuals are created homosexual, WHEN are they created homosexual?

This is important cuz Jefferson said that all of us are created and that, at creation, we get the Right to life.

So, if a person is created homosexual at creation, that recognizes that creation is when life begins, and, when life begins, so does the Right to life.

^^FYI: the court in CA that approved gay marriage is majority Republican, so enough of the "activist liberal judge nonsense"^^

They are moderates, the bane of the GOP.

^^I don't care a whit what two consenting adults want to do between themselves. ^^

Two sisters are consenting adults. How 'bout three sisters? Brothers?

^^The Christ came to show mercy and put an end to the law. ^^

That's for those who don't reject Him. Those who reject Him are still under the Law.

^^It used to be illegal for a black man to marry a white woman in this country.^^

Irrelevant.

They are STILL man and woman, and, as such, they can fulfill God's Creation: A man, as husband, and a woman, as his wife. THAT's the godly, matrimonial relationship.

Who is the husband and who is the wife in the "same-sex 'marriage'"?

All men, homosexual and heterosexual, may marry women, homosexual and heterosexual.
No man, neither heterosexual, nor homosexual, may marry another man.

All women, homosexual and heterosexual, may marry men, homosexual and heterosexual.
No woman, neither heterosexual, nor homosexual, may marry another woman.

The heterosexual man has no more, nor less, Right to marry than the man claiming to be homosexual, and vice versa.
The heterosexual woman has no more, nor less, Right to marry than the woman claiming to be homosexual, and vice versa.

There is no inequality in marriage law. No one is prohibited from marrying. No one is barred from marrying.

Nothing is stopping a homosexual man from marrying a heterosexual woman.
Nothing is stopping a homosexual man from marrying a homosexual woman.

Nothing is stopping a heterosexual man from marrying a heterosexual woman.
Nothing is stopping a heterosexual man from marrying a homosexual woman.

Nothing is stopping a homosexual woman from marrying a homosexual man.
Nothing is stopping a homosexual woman from marrying a heterosexual man.

Nothing is stopping a heterosexual woman from marrying a homosexual man.
Nothing is stopping a heterosexual woman from marrying a heterosexual man.

All are barred from same-sex marrying.

In other words, nothing stops any man from marrying a woman, and nothing stops any woman from marrying any man. All men have the same Rights, and all women have the same Rights.

This is equal protection. This is equality. This is equity.

Therefore, there is no inequality and no inequity.

^^Why are people so eager to cede the privilege of granting the status of marriage to the government in the first place?

I have never in my life heard one single good justification as to why the government is in the business of licensing marriages.^^

I agree. Leaving the State outta it would free up the courts.

Marriage is a contract. Th eparties are the State, the man and the woman. The State is required, as party to the contract, to enforce the contract.

However, if we leave the State outta it, as I say, the courts would not be involved. No benefits. No nothing from the State.

So, if we leave the State outta this, those who claim to be homosexual who couple won't be able to rely on courts to enforce their Will on the rest of us.

I'm all for it.

^^I find it quite insulting when others bring GOD into this subject.^^

Tough.

^^I feel that its gods decision to do what he feels, and no other man shall judge another on any one sin they decide.^^

He's already decided that homosexuality is an abomination. So, now what? Ignore that?

^^ How dare you! Shame on you for inflicting your judgemental thoughts. You shall burn for every hateful judgement that that you have said.^^

Matthew 7 says that the unrighteous shall not judge. Jesus said that the Righteous shall judge Righteously. So, now what?

^^I feel that if a man and a man decide to marry then so be it.^^

So, you appeal to "Judge not!" but reject God's joining a man, as husband, and a woman, as his wife. We see.

^^What they strave for...^^

What language is that word?

"Strave"????

^I find it quite funny when one of you conservatives have a child and he/she becomes gay.^^

What do you mean, "becomes"??? I thought that they were created by God to be homosexual.

When were they created homosexual by God??

^^ They please t