Political Punch

I made a big mistake as a member of the LDS (Mormon) Church in saying that I supported Senator Brownback.

Today, a staffer distributed a false and offensive message saying,

"the only thing Christianity and the LDS Church has in common is the name of Jesus Christ, and the LDS Jesus is not the same Jesus of the Christian faith."

I applaud Senator Brownback for issuing an apology, but question whether it wasn't intentional.

I do have some misgivings about Mitt Romney's change of heart on positions like abortion and gay marriage.

However, I don't question his faith, nor his belief as Jesus Christ as the Son of God.

As a Mormon, you may be interested that we do not use our sunday school time disparaging other religions like some religions seem to relish. Nor do our leaders issue statements which would mischaracterize another faith. Instead, we choose to affirm our beliefs. And there is no more consistent belief or teaching that Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world.

I wish more people paid attention to the sad way abortion is twisted as an issue.

Nearly everybody considers abortions to be a bad thing -whether that ranges from a necessarily permissible evil or to one which should be banned. You don't meet too many women who are happy about an abortion had, nor too many men who happy about an abortion condoned or encouraged.

I don't think it matters whether abortion is murder. I think any attempt to tease out such a distinction of a politician is pretty devilish. (And - to put in a biblical sort of frame - reminds me much of the way the Pharisees tried to trick Jesus into saying something contradictory at various times in the New Testament).

elizabeth - true :(

Spock: you are sweet. I am not saying I am yeah for it, but it happens and will happen. It's the reality, but GOD judges one, not you nor I: judges in the end. We can rant and rave against it, but a person is a person and will do what he/she decides no matter how another feels about it. Yes, it's sad.

elizabeth - That decision affects the life of another human that does not have a voice yet.

Wake up people! We have a Democrat House and Senate - Roe vs. Wade is going NOWHERE in the next 10 years. This is a non-issue ... unless you're calling Mitt wishy-washy. Remember Reagan (voted "Greatest American" by popular vote) did the same, and also appointed pro-choicers and supported embryonic stem-cell research. Now you really didn't want to paint Romney to look even more like Reagan did you? Well, you are.

God forgives and is the ultimate judge my friend. We don't have to like it, however, but it is an unavoidable. Not everyone is a Christian or believes in God: I am not one of those people, however. But someone's abortion is none of your business. Let God deal with them. You just be nice. Isn't God of love?

God is the one in charge first of all, I personally do not want a president to decide my life for me. I want a president who will support me and my decisions and of my fellow neighbors, that is CEO, he isn't intended to be God. One's personal beliefs is one's personal beliefs, not for anyone else to judge that...only GOD! We need a speaker to support that.

Brownback is using semantics at the same time he is using Romney's faith against him. He's trying to get Romney to make a public statement that contradicts his faith. Abortion is wrong. There is no "right" to it. Romney knows this. He has governed (effectively) as a pro-life governor his whole term. See David French's thorough discussion of Romney's LIFE record. Brownback is desperate and annoying. He is not an attractive candidate. His presence is like Al Gore's. The way he speaks is annoying and condescending.

FYI, Mitt Romney's statement is consistent with his church's position on whether abortion is "murder." It is wrong. It is almost always inappropriate, but the church does not use the term "murder." Go Mitt.

I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or a "Mormon" as people refer to us.

I support Senator Brownback because his views reflect the teachings of my Church, and is more convincing than Mitt Romney - a fellow Mormon.

I remember Senator Brownback's defense of pro-life issues in Senate confirmation hearings.

Unfortunately, I believe Mitt's positions are more opportunist than heartfelt.

Senator Brownback is the one true conservative - even though he is Catholic.

Thanks Senator Brownback for being consistent and principled. I trust you more than Romney.

Correction to last post -- 'Science kills man'

Joshua - Science has never and never will disprove God. the rest of what you say is heresy! so I will ignore that. But you of finished the circle then that 'man kills man'

Posted by: Jared | Jun 14, 2007 11:45:34 AM

romney is behaving like a president: keep the american's interest not his personal one. who is one to judge a person's rights to an abortion? GOD is who, not one person on this earth has the right to judge.

********************************

I have the right to judge. I see it this way: man creates god, science kills god, man becomes god.

I can certainly understand McCain trying to keep this issue on the front burner. As with all things under dispute you have be resigned to the facts; either something did happen or it didn't. Then ask yourself if it matters. Romney does seem to say the politically expedient thing and that matters to me. I'm also a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (commonly called Mormon church) and I favor McCain over the competition. I liked his campaign in 2004, but all of this conservative grandstanding he's doing this year gives him a smack of inauthenticity.

romney is behaving like a president: keep the american's interest not his personal one. who is one to judge a person's rights to an abortion? GOD is who, not one person on this earth has the right to judge.

rglines - With a miscarriage it is God's will. Why can't the choice come like 'queenmercury' said before sex. Now I know people are going to say what about rape and or incest, well first give me a statistic of how many pregencies happen because of those, and then I will agree for only those , even though it is still wrong.

je po - Well then we should be thankful for the Propaganda of Global Warming, since there will be more fields to grow. We have the food to feed everyone on tis planet, the problem is the socialists and dictators. Adoption. And maybe if towns and schools would give children other activities which seem to be cut out of schools. How are people uninformed about birth control, it is plaster everywhere, unless you live in a vacuum but then you would not be having sex. now is it not equal rights, so the father of the child should have a say first. But you are say then a woman has the right to kill a living human being.

Tyjaboo - You are right

paulet see above, that was propaganda, see the CDC for the facts

huffyho - first the hypocrosy is not being against abortion and for the Death penalty it is the opposite views that are hypocritical. GOPer to say belive in the death penalty for violent offenders of innocent people. Pro-Abortionist believe in kill innocent victims. Your whole statement about choosing who gets aborted is more of the pro-abortion view - anti-abortionist want NO abortions, those who want abortions are the ones closer to Nazis.

Now as far as McCain the issue that cost him the nomination is the illegal immigrant bill he is pushing. and he is trying to change the subject.

First it is about 80%+ of abortions are done by well to individuals, not the poor. Yes we know the propaganda just like the back alley abortion claim, when actually during the time period in the 60-70's they said that there was no report of any woman dieing from a back alley abortion, but they said 10's of thousands died. Now the argument is the poor well if it was true about the poor, then there is always adoption.

Now the attack on Romneys religion is foolish and stupid we have many different religions running, morman, catholic, protanstent, muslim, and so on. Mormans believe in God just like the others just differently, stop attacking a god loving religion.

Now 'A Viet Nam Vet' what is immoral about fighting an enemy that wants to destroy us, freeing over 50 million people from rape camps, death squads and so forth. Any supposed vet should be the first to support our troops, so we can win this war, since if the politicians stayed out of the Vietnam war and let the military fight it we would of won that war. So learn the lesson.

And Please stop with the Ron Paul.

The whole thing is just shady - Romney's phoniness and what not

The article mentioned that candidates Romney and Brownback will be at the National Right to Life Convention. A note by Kent Snyder at www.ronpaul2008.com indicates that Dr. Ron Paul will also be there, no doubt participating in Carol Tobias' forum.

Ron Paul clearly values human life.

A VOTE FOR MITT IS A VOTE FOR SATAN! BEWARE OF THE MORMON THEOCRACY. JESUS CHRIST WILL CONDEMN YOU TO HELL IF YOU VOTE FOR HIM. HE IS A LIAR, LIAR, LIAR! MORMONS ARE LIARS!!! HE CHANGES EVERY SECOND!!!! HE LIES! HE LIES! HE WILL TAKE AMERICA TO HELL!!!!

Posted by: Joe Chamblin | Jun 13, 2007 8:22:45 PM

The accusation above makes me sick! You are an example of people that lives on hatred and ignorance. You need to read and make some research before you condemn Mitt or anyone for that matter, or you'll be condemning yourself like an idiot whose house foundation is nothing but sand. Clean your house first, and remember, God is the Judge! Not You!

I think all parties to this debate are correct. Their opponents are all political opportunists. They are all supposed to be christians too but they all support Bush`s immoral war in Irag.

This just shows McCain's DESPERATION!

authoring the immigration bill is enough to write McCain off for me. Of course that is compounded by his sycophantic licking of W's butt and absolute lack of representing the constituents! And Romney is a glorified used car salesman. RON PAUL!! VOTE FOR RON PAUL IN 2008! ALL THE OTHER CANDIDATES ARE FOR 1984!

Most of this thread is as silly as the empty attacks from Senator McCain's campaign. Mitt Romney has always stated publicly that he is personally against abortion. He has never flip-flopped in his personal conviction; however, he also stated that as governor of Massachusetts he would maintain the status quo on abortion, which was pro-choice. Does this make Romney a one-time pro-choice governor? McCain would certainly want you to see the issue that way. Personal convictions don't always need to reconcile with public policy decisions, even for someone who is a "man of convictions."

Mr. Romney knew when he made his commitment to the status quo that he was being elected as the governor of Massachusetts and was willing to "compromise" to support the overwhelming voice of those whom he governed in the liberal-leaning commonwealth. After all, he also asserted that the issue of abortion is best defined (and I will add limits initially tested) on a state level.

Political expediency? Absolutely. Compromising? Absolutely. Flip-flopping? No. He stated his personal beliefs on the record while also stating that he would maintain the status quo as governor.

I have a great respect for individuals who will listen to constituents and avoid certain battles when they have so much to offer in other areas. Picking battles carefully demonstrates certain maturity and wisdom. Choosing the right battlefronts also led to an incredibly effective governorship (despite what some Massachusetts citizens are posting here). Evidently, they forgot what was Romney's inheritance when taking office.

I have a hard time seeing anything wrong with the "perceived" change on a position or with the sincere struggles of a political candidate communicate his positions and rationale to those who are only too eager to take past statements out of their original context.

Romney's ability to put aside personal convictions in deference to the voice of the people in certain cases shows great intelligence and political acumen. Yes, politics requires a certain amount of . . . politics.

We know Romney flip flop on every issue. You should also flip flop on Immigration and Iraq, you might have a good showing during the primary but I'm sure you will not win. Session for President.

What a disappointing article. Abortion is about as worthy of *political* consideration as slavery; in other words, the likelihood of "Roe v Wade" being repealed is about as likely as the Thirteenth Amendment being repealed.

If this is the character of the Republican "debate", in our modern context, then I am afraid the Democrats have little to worry about.

Oh where, oh where have intelligent third-party candidates gone??

A VOTE FOR MITT IS A VOTE FOR SATAN! BEWARE OF THE MORMON THEOCRACY. JESUS CHRIST WILL CONDEMN YOU TO HELL IF YOU VOTE FOR HIM. HE IS A LIAR, LIAR, LIAR! MORMONS ARE LIARS!!! HE CHANGES EVERY SECOND!!!! HE LIES! HE LIES! HE WILL TAKE AMERICA TO HELL!!!!

Tumbleweed

You said "My thought is that life does NOT begin at conception but when the indivigual takes a useful place in the fabic of the society"

LOL! By this definition, we should be able to abort half the population as it exists today. Try again!

I say let the monkeys fight, it's the only thing that's good about politics.

Tumbleweedin: All you say is flip flop and go Ron Paul. THe real issue here is why when there are major issues in this country, they are debating this garbage? We don't need anymore "conservatives"-flip floppers or not. Leave your religious idiologies at home

Can you say FLIP-FLOP?

for Duck, you have it right. The repblicans' those that matter being the rich ones, will still get the abortions for their precious daughters. They will do it overseas or in Canada just like before. The poor women might get one, maybe in Mexico, and might live through it. Tell me which is just? My thought is that life does NOT begin at conception but when the indivigual takes a useful place in the fabic of the society, even just if it is as a loved infant. One major culture never gave the child a name until it was a year old to reduce grief based on traditional high infant mortality. Was John Wayne Gayce a human being? Not in my mind, he was an animal. It takes more than viable cell tissue. My motto, if you cannot feed them don't bred them. Pro-abortion. Prevent future Bush's.

Mitt Romney is a spineless flip-flopper. Brownback is the only real pro-lifer in the race.

I don't agree with McCain often, but I do this time. If it's possible to call Romney "Slick Mitt", I'd do so. He'll say anything to get elected.

DEAD MAN WALKING: Stroll-Through-Baghdad, Loony McCain is so politically dead, he's not even conscious of it.

After showing his Amnesty-loving side, McCain now couldn't even be elected dog-catcher in his home state of Arizona. His mindless support for the endless neocon wars establishes his unelectability everywhere else in the country.

Will somebody please bury this rotting corpse before it stinks up the campaign even more!!!!!!

Noone can expect the Republican nomination if there's even the slightest chance they're only pretending to be insane.

I find it laughable that the GOPers are so dead set against abortion and then so gung ho on capital punishment. Isn't a life a life regardless of how heinous it becomes and what depraved crimes it commits? If the GOPers had to choose only the blue-eyed blonds would be denied abortions and who cares if you're minority or an illegal alien, let them abort...or of the sexual orientation of babies could be determined before birth,then the Republicans would be pro-abortion then. It's all hypocrisy to suit their wretched agendas.

As a Massachusetts resident, I agree with what Barney Frank says,

"The real Romney is clearly an extraordinarily ambitious man with no perceivable political principle whatsover. He is the most intellectually dishonest human being in the history of politics."

Off topic but I'd love to get your reaction to the new study ranking ABC News as 'Poor' on transparency:

What do I think?

That Mitt Romney is an arrogant wind-bag who needs to go back to Utah and obscurity. As a resident of Massachusetts, I was glad to be rid of him this past January, and I certainly am not looking forward to watching him posture on national television. He was a horrendous governor.

The biggest thing MOST MEN DON'T REALIZE -- is that some women don't have the choice to make a choice before sex and these are the women who should be protected -- I would not want to go back to the back streets of the 50's again and from what I understand that does still exist especially in Middle America -- How sad it all is, just because the Man has the power!!!

queenmary: Yes, many people are uninformed about birth control. However, conservatives want to not discuss those either. We all remember Bush's abstinence only sex-ed programs. You can't have it both ways. Oh and birth control is not 100%. Again, what about the children already here?

The sooner politicians realised that it is for a woman to decides what she wishes to do with her body the better.

How someone conducts their personal life shoul be nobodies business but themselves. It is God to decide not Newt Gingrich, who was carrying on an affair whilst impeaching President Clinton for the same.

Why is abortion always an election issue? Because it inflames people's emotions and leads them away from the real issues.
As voters, we need to tell candidates to quit screwing around and deal with issues that are pertinent.

I'm all for women's choice - but make it BEFORE conception. If you make the choice to have sex, unprotected or not, then you are making the choice to potentially have a baby. If people would take more responsibility for these choices we wouldn't have a problem, now would we? If men and women would make the choice to use protection or birth control then there would be no need for abortion. You can't tell me that the hundreds of thousands of abortions that take place each year are all on women who are uneducated on birth control...

Spock: There are plenty of starving children already HERE in this world. Let's take care of them first before we worry about little clusters of cells. All of you conservatives tend to ignore this arguement. And since you are a man, you cannot tell a woman what to do with her body. Get a grip

Spock..So what happens when a woman has a miscarraige? That was a 'life', wasn't it? Is God the murderer then? I know that may seem like I'm going off the discussion, but if it's God's will that all these children are born, then let HIM support them!

And another thing...Law's are made by 'personal beliefs'. We have a system to protect the rights of all Americans. Keep your religion, and personal beliefs to just that.. yourself! Stop trying to cater to a specific group based on your personal beliefs. We vote you people in to do a JOB. Keep our freedoms intact, protect our borders, healthcare, employment, and the American dream.

rglines - What does abortion have to do with Womens Equal rights? First it is technically against the constitution if you really read it. It is killing another human being. Abortion is Wrong on all levels of a Civilized World.

rglines: Exactly!!!!

Why is the stance on abortion an issue? Do the conservatives wish to turn the tables on women's rights? I think it's a total smokescreen to the real issues. (Republicans are experts at derailing real issues during campaigns) Get to the REAL issues! If you don't like abortion, DON'T HAVE ONE!

Also, Jake, great post today, but why the caricature of Ted Danson circa 1986?

Jason, I'm a "pro choicer" and count me in, I'm for not criminalizing any of those things. Of course I'd insist on a minimum wage for all prostitutes and public health care to ensure that they do not serve as public petrie dishes. You and Mitt Romney might also like to know that I'm pro-polygamy, polyandry (assuming no coercion) and gay marriage. So now what?

They both stink.

You guys blow this flip flop thing out of proportion. Even McCain doesn’t truly believe what he is saying about Romney. It's a ploy by his 'new staff' to try and level the playing field. McCain’s having to get DIRTY. I think it's funny that it's come down to this for McCain!

Actually Jason,

If people want to end their lives (I'm talking assisted suicide for people suffering from terminal illnesses like cancer) then so be it. And actually prostitution should be legal-taxed, regulated, etc. They have it legal in certain parts of Nev and they are tested regularly. People will do it anyway. And we are losing the battle on drugs. Much of the crimes committed in this country are from drug dealers, etc. People need treatment, not prison. Regarding abortion...people should be able to choose. There are plenty of starving children already HERE in this world. Let's take care of them first before we worry about little clusters of cells.

For all of the voters out there who dispise dirty campaign tactics it should be pretty clear that mccain is running the dirtiest campaign out of all of the candidates. Great Great Grandpa mccain is getting schooled by the most intelligent candidate who has the strongest background and resume. Governor Romney's resume crushes the other candidates and they know it, and that is why they are attacking him.

If abortion is not murder, please explain to me, pro choicers, why you are not out there protesting to right to suicide and assisted suicide as well as the right to be a prostitute. After all, its my body my choice right? If there government cant tell you what you can do with your body, then any laws in that arena also need to go. No drug laws, no anti-prostitution, no anti-suicide; it all becomes legal.

So where are you, pro choicers, on all these issues?

McCain's attack smacks of petulance and desperation. He is finished as a candidate and should withdraw from the race with whatever dignity he has left.
As for Romney, he is impressing me more every day. I've never donated to a political candidate before, but I'm seriously considering forking over some cash to him. I have absolutely no problem with him changing his mind on a thing or two; I've done the same thing with regards to the death penalty. He is firm in many respects, and flexible in others- just what we need after eight years of an overly stubborn George W. Bush.

McCain has to attack since he has nothing of substance to offer.

You know, there's millions of people starving and dying all over the world, 40million Americans don't have health care, our public schools are a mess, and these idiots are concentrating on this garbage?????? LEAVE WOMEN ALONE!!!!

My guess is that he is being pulled by different beliefs.

Personally, he has strong religious beliefs that say abortion is wrong. He would personally never advocate abortion except for the standard exceptions, (health of mother, health of child, rape). This belief pulls him in one direction. He has always been clear on this.

However, he also believes in federalism, states should have the right to choose. If the majority of voters in a state say abortion should be legal, then that is how the law should be....he won't mess with that. He may personally disagree with the outcome of a vote, but he believes in the system. This, at times, makes it seem like he is being pulled in another direction. When you represent people, that is your job. Your personal beliefs become secondary when you are performing your job as a representative. That doesn't mean you lose your personal beliefs. It is easy for a rival politician to craft questions that point out an apparent contridiction.

Then there are things like stem-cell research and other new developing technologies. I have strong beliefs about abortion, and other topics, but when it comes to stem cell research, I am not sure what I believe. I don't know enough about it. I don't know how stem cell research applies to moral and religious beliefs. Is there something in the Bible that would give us a clue. Can resonable minds differ on the morality of stem cell research. My guess is that Romney (as should everyone else) is still weighing, listening, learning, and trying to figure out where stem cell research should be on the moral, ethical scale.

In the article it says Romeny remained committed to pro choice. That is not accurate. He remained committed to the system that put pro choice laws on the record. His personal beliefs always contradicted pro choice. I don't understand why this is such a hard concept to understand. Perhaps it is the new journalism....create problems where they don't exist, push controversy where there really isn't any.

Game is precisely the right word.

Trouble is....the public needs leadership, not gamesmanship.

Show me the dark horses.

Mitt Romney is a flip flopping fool. He makes John Kerry look like a man of conviction.

These two liberals will never get the Republican nomination. One is a flip floper and other is too liberal for conservatives.

Why would anyone value a leader who never changed his or her mind? Don't we want a leader who can evaluate data and come to a conclusion and then re-evaluate if new data points in a different direction? This constant condemnation of "flip-flopping" is at the very least immature and at worst, a recipe for disaster in the face of every changing situations.

First the Abortion issue is not going to be solved by the President, We need a president that will appoint judges that read the constitution as it was meant to be. Constructionist Judges. The oblect with the continunce of the press on the abortion issue is to try to fractur the Republican party.

Jake why don't you put any blogs on the changing views of Hilary or Obama? Gore?

McCain is no true Conservative either.

Gov. Romney's positions on the issues of the day remind me of a popular saying about the weather in Chicago: if you don't like the weather now, just wait ten minutes and it'll change. If you don't like Gov. Romney's position on an issue now, just wait ten minutes and it'll change.

Cordelia says it all quite succinctly: it's difficult to justify your beliefs when you don't sincerely believe what you're saying. It seems to me that Gov. Romney is simply taking the politically expedient position to attract more voters of his party, never mind his own beliefs. I'm highly suspicious of his explanation of his May 27, 2005 "conversion" (or, if you will, "epiphany"), since it just isn't consistent with his actions. It's quite amusing, though, to hear his rationalizations as to how he arrived at his "position of the week." The entire experience is akin to Paris Hilton attempting to explain quantum mechanics and string theory.

I think it's difficult to articulate a sincerely held belief, when you don't sincerely hold that belief.

And I'm quite happy to buy into the idea that an individual's beliefs evolve over time. In fact, I'm skeptical of anyone whose positions remain unchanged over the years. You have to wonder whether that individual's mind is open. It's good for some one to challenge and criticize their own views.

However, with respect to Romney, I think McCain is right. It's not an evolution. Rather, it's political expediency. I'm particularly struck by the fact that his wife donated (presumably his $) to Planned Parenthood. It's one thing to personally oppose abortion but nevertheless respect the liberty or a woman's right to choose. It's quite another to give money to an abortion provider. And to go from that to heading up a right to life chapter. It just doesn't seem plausible. And then to hear him articulate his beliefs - it doesn't sound like he believes in anything at all.