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Hillary Gets Poor Grades at Drexel Debate
October 31, 2007 9:49 AM
For the first section of last night's Democratic debate -- during the entire section on that arcane Kyl-Lieberman amendment on Iran -- frontrunner Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-NY, held her own just fine, I thought, and her reluctance to engage in the tit-for-tat bickering served her well.
But then something must have happened during that first commercial break.
Because when we came back, she seemed obfuscatory and less than forthright.
Take the question on whether or not she would allow the National Archives to open up more records of her husband's presidency -- a pertinent one given her declaration that her eight years as First Lady constitutes "experience," not to mention her husband's request that the National Archives keep their communications sealed until 2012.
"The Archives is moving as rapidly as the Archives moves," she said. 'There's about 20 million pieces of paper there. And they are move, and they are releasing as they do their process. And I am fully in favor of that."
She was pressed on her husbands request that any communication between the two of them not be made available to the public until 2012. "Would you lift that ban?" she was asked by moderator Tim Russert.
"Well, that's not my decision to make, and I don't believe that any president or first lady ever has. But, certainly, we're move as quickly as our circumstances and the processes of the
National Archives permits."
Said Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois: "We have just gone through one of the most secretive administrations in our history. And not releasing, I think, these records at the same time, Hillary, that you're making the claim that this is the basis for your experience, I think, is a problem."
It went on like that.
Russert flatly accused her of being duplicitous on Social Security, saying to him and at an AARP-hosted debate that she would not increasing Social Security taxes, then telling a teacher -- and being overheard by an AP reporter -- that she would consider it. "Why do you have one public position and one private position?" Russert asked.
Clinton denied she did, saying -- when pressed on her private conversation with a teacher -- that "everybody knows what the possibilities are, Tim. Everybody knows that. But I do not advocate it. I do not support it."
Then came questions about the tax reform proposal offered by one of her biggest supporters, Rep. Charles Rangel, D-NY, chair of the House Ways and Means Committee. Campaigning with Rangel and his wife, former President Bill Clinton on Saturday said, "Charlie Rangel wants me to pay more taxes so you can pay less and I think that's a good idea."
Is that Sen. Clinton's view?
Clinton declared herself a "great admirer of Chairman Rangel." Then she said "I don't know all the details of what Charlie is recommending, but I certainly agree with the goal."
Then she sounded as if she was quite familiar with the details of what Rangel is recommending.
Then she said "I don't agree with all the details, but he's on the right track to say we've got to do something about" the Alternative Minimum Tax.
Her worst moment came at the end of the debate, (watch it HERE) when asked about a comment she gave to a New Hampshire newspaper that New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer's controversial proposal to give driver's licenses to illegal immigrants "makes a lot of sense."
"What Governor Spitzer is trying to do is fill the vacuum left by the failure of this administration to bring about comprehensive immigration reform," she said. "We know in New York we have several million at any one time who are in New York illegally. They are undocumented workers. They are driving on our roads. The possibility of them having an accident that harms themselves or others is just a matter of the odds. It's probability. So what Governor Spitzer is trying to do is to fill the vacuum."
Then Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., took issue with Spitzer's proposal.
Clinton then interjected -- "Well, I just want to add, I did not say that it should be done, but I certainly recognize why Governor Spitzer is trying to do…"
If you paid attention you might have felt hundreds of thousands of Americans go: HUH?
"No, no, no," Dodd said. "You said -- you said yes, you thought it made sense to do it."
"No, I didn't, Chris," said Clinton.
"Senator Clinton, I just want to make sure of what I heard," said Russert. "Do you, the New York senator, Hillary Clinton, support the New York governor's plan to give illegal immigrants a driver's license?
You told the New Hampshire paper that it made a lot of sense. Do you support his plan?"
Clinton got defensive. "You know, Tim, this is where everybody plays 'gotcha.' It makes a lot of sense. What is the governor supposed to do? He is dealing with a serious problems. We have failed. And George Bush has failed. Do I think this is the best thing for any governor to do? No. But do I understand the sense of real desperation, trying to get a handle on this? Remember, in New York, we want to know who's in New York. We want people to come out of the shadows. He's making an honest effort to do it. We should have passed immigration reform."
It fed into the meme that Obama and former Sen. John Edwards, D-NC, had been pushing all night -- that Clinton is calculating and less than honest.
So they, too, pounced.
"Unless I missed something, Senator Clinton said two different things in the course of about two minutes just a few minutes ago," Edwards said. "And I think this is a real issue for the country. I mean, America is looking for a president who will say the same thing, who will be consistent, who will be straight with them. Because what we've had for seven years is double-talk from Bush and from Cheney, and I think America deserves us to be straight."
Added Obama: "Well, I was confused on Senator Clinton's answer. I can't tell whether she was for it or against it. And I do think that is important. One of the things that we have to do in this country is
to be honest about the challenges that we face."
Clinton is still the frontrunner, and has a commanding lead. But it was shaky performance, with the grand finale of the debate being a devastating punch delivered by … Clinton herself.
Thoughts?
-- jpt
October 31, 2007 | Permalink | Share | User Comments (94)
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This is hopeful and perhaps constructive criticism for I do not want to block or interfere with any one candidate at this time. I had been a “key” individual and for the public within the shadows of the U.S. government since the lost of the space shuttle Columbia, and then I became more to the forefront with my concerns over the safety issues within NASA and became a whistle blower, courtroom activist, jailed without trial, lost of family. I am a person who chose to go to Vietnam with the HAWK unit as a marine in 1965 and later became a computer scientist and if people talked with me between the years of 1986 to yesterday they would think of me as a rebel because they had not yet realized they had been so badly mislead and in a fog of marketing of professionals. Today I am very hopeful that our candidates are on both sides genuinely preparing their platform for the best interest of the United States and not for their personal agenda. I am in ill health, and have been since Vietnam, otherwise I would been much more active as a human within our social fabric, our national security is still weak, our environmental protection is much weaker, the national farmers associations will have critical problems, our health system are unfair and in disarray, the national school system is in a “Clear and Present” danger (from all classes and from birth many family‘s are disconnected with their children), etc, etc,. Currently our enemy is genuine and with terrorism, but very soon with the crisis of global environmental losses in food and resources there will be border conflicts, and foreign wars. I am very concerned over the recovery of the United States at this time in our evolutionary period, and who takes command of the U.S. Government. The world cannot function well without a functioning government within the United States, and I believe most of the world governments realize that to be true. I have combated terrorism in South Vietnam and their the street orphans constantly helped me in avoiding contact with the enemy when I was alone and vulnerable, I was under orders not to engage the enemy and not to be captured , but I was also constantly present amongst the civilians. Now decades later I am again in a deep and critical matter that requires attention by national leaders and they choose to abandon me, persecute me, and after it is determined that I am correct, they remain further in distance and only one comes forward with a recent hand shake. The next leader of this nation has a task of recovery of reuniting of rebuilding, and so far I have not seen that spirited platform appear within any of the parties. I hope my reflections and statements are of some use. Note: I use to sing and talk to my children from the day they were born, and I would talk to them about the clothing they wore, or at cafeterias I would let them pick their food even at the early age of 6 months, we had a ongoing open and friendly relationship.
Posted by: Williamwfh | Oct 31, 2007 4:04:10 PM
It is heartening to know that after all the ridicule President Reagan took from democrats for the movie, Bedtime for Bonzo, the frontrunner would only poll 46-48% against “any republican” prior to the debate and most likely only 43% against Bonzo after this debate.
Posted by: flyover | Oct 31, 2007 3:48:20 PM
ABC PULLED MY POST! Is it because I pointed out your bias?
Posted by: jim | Oct 31, 2007 3:46:15 PM
I want to ask if Jake Tapper is favors
one party 'cause every time I check on the comments,it is full of Mrs Clinton
bashers.I posted a comment at one time and went back to check but was not there
any more.I do observe that he has always
posted more of unfavorable comments about the Clinton and nobody else. WHAT IS GOING ON?
Posted by: UGOCHUKWU | Oct 31, 2007 3:45:17 PM
Why didn't she just say "sooner, rather than later," when she meant "never." It worked for the "most ethical administration" before.
Posted by: taxplan | Oct 31, 2007 3:28:54 PM
SHAME,SHAME,SHAME,there we go again folks,the right hate mongers have already started and it is not the general election yet. What are you guys
afraid of on Hillary Clinton? is 'cause
she is a woman? is it cause she is Bill's wife,is it cause you hate mongers
do not like women being in charge? what
is it cause it bugs me why some people
are so narrow minded. You guys last time
I checked went after AL Gore on many
issues like global warming ten years ago
and now he is a nobel peace prize winner
You guys went after John Kerry,a man who
served, I repeat served his country in
Vietnam,you went after former Georgia
senator Maxclelan,a disable vet who lost
both leggs and one ,calling him a liberal 'cause of his stands with the
Irag war. Where are your taugths. This
time you guys are going after her,fool
me once and the country but this time
It is not going to work. Brenda and others bashing,you out of touch right
winggers, get a life 'cause she is going
to be the next president of the united
states.
Posted by: UGOCHUKWU | Oct 31, 2007 3:27:16 PM
If Hilary were a male, this stupid sniping would disappear, and she would be considered according to her merits. Get over it, and I'm sorry... but I wanted so much to believe Obama would take the high road, but he's like a kid poking a dog with a stick. He has much less substance than I would have hoped.
BUT all of these issues are complicated. People are allowed to consider and change their minds - Geez, it shows that they THINK about things - this goes for all the candidates. We now have an administration that NEVER corrects it's views, and it' s HORRIBLE. Let's see what these folk have to offer, not who's the best at sniping.
Posted by: kcareymac | Oct 31, 2007 3:24:03 PM
This seems to be a classic example of the "good Hillary/bad Hillary" personae which, like Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde, the junior senator from New York often manifests. When Sen. Clinton doesn't respond to the political attacks and the baiting, she seems competent and presidential; when she triangulates her position and tries to be everything to everybody, she seems indecisive and calculating. The other candidates smelled her blood in the water and began to attack, most deservedly, when she seemingly expressed support for Gov. Spitzer without supporting him. It's obvious she's a follower of Lewis Carroll, but shouldn't be: "A word means exactly what I want it to mean, neither more nor less."
Posted by: chuck | Oct 31, 2007 3:21:13 PM
So everyone on all the campaigns are reading everything we (the real people) are saying and all their opionions will change tomorrow. Love this country, can't wait to read the news.
Posted by: ME | Oct 31, 2007 3:21:06 PM
I HEARD A COUPLE OF COMMENTS EARLIER SAYING THAT OBAMA AND CLINTON ANSWERED THE SAME REGARDING THE QUESTION OF ISSUING ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT'S IDS TO DRIVE. OBAMA SAID THIS"I think that it is the right idea, and I disagree with Chris because there is a public safety concern. We can make sure that drivers who are illegal come out of the shadows, that they can be tracked, that they are properly trained, and that will make our roads safer.
That doesn't negate the need for us to reform illegal immigration.
UNLESS YOU WERE OUTSIDE TAKING A BREATHERLIZER TEST, WHAT DID THEY NOT UNDERSTAND REGARDING OBAMA'S ANSWER?
HERE IS SENATOR CLINTONS ANSWER:
Russert: Senator Clinton, I just want to make sure of what I heard. Do you, the New York senator, Hillary Clinton, support the New York governor's plan to give illegal immigrants a driver's license?
You told the New Hampshire paper that it made a lot of sense. Do you support his plan?
Clinton: You know, Tim, this is where everybody plays "gotcha." It makes a lot of sense. What is the governor supposed to do? He is dealing with a serious problems. We have failed. And George Bush has failed. Do I think this is the best thing for any governor to do? No. But do I understand the sense of real desperation, trying to get a handle on this? Remember, in New York, we want to know who's in New York. We want people to come out of the shadows.
I WAS JUST AS CONFUSED AS OBAMA!
Posted by: James | Oct 31, 2007 3:17:06 PM
Apparently Hillary supporters are blindsided by the fact that its Bill they really want. Let's face it..after last night's debate, its apparent the woman is an idiot with little integrity. The woman cannot answer a question without blaming someone else thinking that's the answer to the question. Too evasive and non-committal to any issue. Bad for the country not to have answers for issues in our country during a campaign.
Posted by: cbeargal | Oct 31, 2007 3:16:42 PM
I would like someone to win that has actually RAN something. Perhaps been a Governer. Even Rudy with Mayor experience is a little better than a Senator. They are all under qualified to run this country. It would be good to have run a state, money, laws etc.
so they at least have a clue. I believe a vote for Hillary is a vote for Bill. He will be President she will be his puppet.
Posted by: ME | Oct 31, 2007 3:02:24 PM
STEVEN: What the h*ll was that? First, there is a key next to the "A" key on your keyboard...it's called the caps lock key. Push it once. Secondly, are you literate? There were more sentence fragments, run on sentences and spelling mistakes than I have even seen in one location at one time! I tried to read your posting and honestly I don't know what side you are on or what you were trying to say for that matter! YIKES!
Posted by: Julio | Oct 31, 2007 3:01:12 PM
This nation DOES NOT need any more family rule. If Clinton is elected it will have been decades that we have been under the leadership of only 2 families! I thought we broke away from this $%@&* long ago!
Posted by: RW | Oct 31, 2007 2:57:41 PM
The bottom line? As much as I'd like to vote for a woman, I just don't trust Hillary and I don't think she could win the general election. She should put personal ambition aside and do what's best for the party by withdrawing from the race.
Posted by: Bob | Oct 31, 2007 2:54:07 PM
Hey I do not mind them attacking President Bush! It shows their lack of respect for the office, and in doing that shows they do not deserve to take the office. And Also they show ignorance because the last time I read President Bush unfortunately can not run again.
They out right lie, which anybody with a unbrainwashed brian can find out for themselves,
1 - Cancer Death Rates that they said were up, there was a report that cancer Death rates have gone down
2 - Social Security under Clinton was to survive to 2055 but under Bush it went to 2042, well half lie again under Clinton it was to run out in 2037, Pres Bush went up to 2042
3 - Bush Lied - Well where were the facts???
Posted by: spock | Oct 31, 2007 2:53:10 PM
Interesting that when pushed to give a clear "yes" or "no" answer she still waffled all around--even later.
If she felt her answer was not clear then she would have insisted on clearing up the issue but she did not. That indicates that she really did not want to clear up the matter--probably as has been pointed out -- because she is afraid of alienating people who diagree with her.
The other candidates and possibly her final Republican opponent will be hitting her hard with continued references like "There you go again without explaining yourself". If she does not come up with a defensive tact to dela with it then it wil be BYE BYE Hillary.
Posted by: John | Oct 31, 2007 2:49:23 PM
They were all eating crow last night about campaign contributions as well. I looked at guys like Dodd and Kucinich, and I have more respect for them now, since they stick to their principals and true to their issues. What is everyone's opinion about Al Gore getting into the race? Does he have time? The true desire?
Posted by: Alex | Oct 31, 2007 2:45:20 PM
They are all weather vanes. Their people read what everyone is saying and jump on the lastest band wagon. So far like I said before, what are they going to do for US? So far nothing. We can bash Bush til we are blue in the face but the point is to replace him, move forward. What are these candidates going to do to make it better? That is what I want to hear. Not what has been done wrong what is going to be done right. Then stick to what they say. That is what I want. But hey I'm an American and it doesn't seem to matter what I want. I am beginning to feel like the minority in this country.
Posted by: ME | Oct 31, 2007 2:39:53 PM
Look at New York. You have all the Rangels, Sharptons, Clintons, Spitzers, etc. Then people want to know why we in the South still want to seceed.
Posted by: Alex | Oct 31, 2007 2:36:43 PM
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