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Immigration Hangover?
November 23, 2007 10:49 AM
In his Times column today, our friend and fellow Philly-boy David Brooks takes a look at a speech Rudy Giuliani gave as Mayor in 1996 on the subject of illegal immigration.
It was an interesting speech. Giuliani argued as to why city services should be available to those in the country illegally.
"(S)ome of these children are citizens -- born in the U.S. -- even though their parents were not," he said. "If their parents take them out of school, not only will these children suffer irreversible damage, they will most likely end up doing damage to the rest of society. Similarly, illegal and undocumented immigrants should be able to seek medical help without the threat of being reported. When these people are sick, they're just as sick and just as contagious as citizens ... and could possibly become a danger to public health.
"And everyone should understand the practicality of wanting undocumented immigrants to feel comfortable reporting criminals to the police. Reporting criminals protects all people, citizens and non-citizens alike. It makes absolutely no sense to create a dis-incentive for immigrants to report crimes. Muggers don't ask for a green card. the Federal Government should not mandate State and City policies that have the effect of reducing the number of undocumented immigrants reporting crimes."
To those citizens who ask, "Why should we pay to provide services for illegal immigrants?" Giuliani said, "It's not only to protect them, but to protect rest of society, as well."
This was a Giuliani whom Brooks liked. "This is why Giuliani won 43 percent of the Hispanic vote in the mayoral race of 1997. This is why his candidacy once had the potential to renovate the G.O.P.
"Of course it hasn’t turned out that way. At the moment, Giuliani and fellow moderate Mitt Romney are attacking each other for being insufficiently Tancredo-esque. They are not renouncing the policies they championed as city and state officials, but the emphasis as they run for federal office is all in the other direction. In effect, they are competing to drive away Hispanic votes and make the party unelectable in New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado, Nevada, Florida and the nation at large."
Brooks calls this "the greatest blown opportunity in recent political history."
We've covered a lot of this back-and-forth since Romney first sized upon this "sanctuary city" issue back in August and Giuliani began hitting back.
What's been interesting to me more recently is how another candidate -- former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee -- responds to hits from Romney on this.
Check out this excerpt from our interview.
TAPPER: Another issue that's going to come up, of course, is an issue that's very important to Iowa Republicans, and that's immigration. As governor, you supported the children of illegal immigrants being eligible for scholarships, and you also supported free prenatal care for those pregnant illegal immigrants who needed it. How do you make the argument to Iowans that those were the right decisions, when they're so mad about illegal immigration?
HUCKABEE: Well, people are mad about illegal immigration because it's illegal. They're made because the federal government has shown just how dysfunctional it is.
TAPPER: But weren't you enabling it?
HUCKABEE: The issue that we've got to deal with is that, if you have a federal government that never deals with a secure border and then fails to do anything about dealing with people when they get employed and they can get employed with false documents, the question is, why don't you secure the border, end the sanctuary cities and amnesty, which I would do? But I wouldn't punish the children who didn't commit a crime. You don't do that in this country. We have a long history of -- we penalize law-breakers. We don't penalize their children for something they can't help.
If a child is gasping for air, asthmatic, and he's on the hospital steps, what do the other candidates suggest we do, let him sit there and gasp until he doesn't have any air left and he dies? If a child comes to our school -- and our law, by the way, in most of our states, mine certainly says you've got to educate a child if he's of child age -- what do you, break your own law and say, "No, you can't come in the schoolhouse door"?
No, you don't do that. What you do is you elect a president who will fix the problem where it needs to be fixed: at the border. But if your government at the federal government is so incompetent that it fails to secure the border, you don't then grind your heel into the face of a 6-year-old child over it. That's not what this country does. We're a better country than that.
Now, if that causes people to say, 'Well, I'm not going to vote for him,' fine. There are plenty of candidates out there who I guess would grind their heel in the face of a 6-year-old child. Not me.
What do you think?
-- jpt
November 23, 2007 | Permalink | Share | User Comments (51)
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Taking steps to stop illegal immigration would be the most appropriate scenario. But as it never going to 100% effectively operate it is better we understand how we should educate them and make them to productive to the society.
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Janaka
Posted by: Janaka | Apr 30, 2008 9:01:24 AM
Ok the 3 step prong noted below is a very good idea.
We can build a wall, and right now our Liberal Congress is breaking the law by not building it.
They are breaking their oath of office as well.
Now anyone who says we can not round up the illegals and deport is just making excuses, in the 1930 we were able to round up all the Japenese were we not?
The reason Mexico wants us to have open borders is because their government would collapse if they had to keep everyone, because then the people would try to fix their government and the corruption would be gone.
The only Candidate that I see that can be trusted to close the border which is most important is Fred Thompson, The Dems will open it fully and pay people to cross, Rudy will keep the status quo, Romney I am unsure about, Ron Paul will do away with the border also.
We need a Federal ID system that needs to be shown when voting, we need to stop foriegn countries from setting up shop here so they can use our courts against us.
Also note Illegals are NOT covered by the US Constitution, They are not people of the US.
Posted by: spock | Nov 26, 2007 1:57:16 PM
To all you folks talking up sovereignty or the lack thereof..there is only one issue..national debt..a country nose deep in debt has no sovereignty.
Posted by: G. Chell | Nov 26, 2007 8:44:24 AM
In my opinion, the whole 'illegal immigrant' situation is a 'non-issue' in Washington. What we, the citizens, are seeing are delaying tactics on the part of our politicians. The reality is that the borders between Mexico, the U.S. and Canada are going to be dissolved and these three countries are going to become the North American Union under its own leadership, its own laws and its own borders. We are becoming global, one-world and have been since the 'great step' forward commonly known as NAFTA. Part of the price that Americans will pay for this forwardness is that we will indeed become more and more like a 'third world' country; and our 'middle class' way of life will virtually dissolve. Don't believe it? Look around you. Listen, really listen, to what ALL of them (running for office) are telling you: talking from both sides of their mouths and playing both ends against the middle.
Posted by: Johnie Kemp | Nov 25, 2007 1:21:38 PM
I think the largest problem American people have with illegal immigrants, besides the fact of being here illegally, is the issue of non-payment of taxes and being able to take advantage of our social services paid for with our tax dollars. I believe the way to attack this problem should be a three pronged front. First the flow across the southern border needs to be stopped; if it takes a sixteen foot tall fence the entire length in order to keep from adding to the estimated 9 to 20 million illegals, so be it. Secondly the American taxpayers need to get on board with the FAIR TAX ACT of 2007, . Passage of this very important legislation will eliminate any consumer from escaping the payment of taxes to fund the federal government, including ones here illegally and also those whose income is derived from illegal means. After these steps are in place, we can then attack the problem of making the ones presently here, legal, with a program aimed toward becoming a legal citizen, which should include passage of a program with curriculum that includes mastery of basic American history, government structure, and basic English as the primary language of the nation.
Posted by: gc | Nov 25, 2007 10:11:57 AM
I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer. So will someone please explain to me how there can be a labor shortage in America at the same time we have people on welfare?
Posted by: anamericanmom | Nov 25, 2007 1:25:46 AM
Americans forget there were anti-Americananarchist and socialist bombings and agitators during the last great wave of immigration which was a factor to the immigration moratorium of 1924 that gave America about a 40 year period to assimilate the wave before Ted Kennedy opened the floodgates in 1964 to the third world. America needs an immigration moratorium and to have a program of pro-American education in our schools and universities.
Posted by: Wherethefence2007 | Nov 25, 2007 12:41:55 AM
Mexico invited American settler in to the Southwest after it took the lands from Spain. Texans rebelled after Santa Anna nulled the consitution and declared himself dictator. America entered the war later.97% of all Mexican land claims were honored under the new American rule. Hispanics today are purposefully seeking a demographic conquest of the US and have said as much repeatedly through their ethnic idenity group La Raza, Mecha, and La Voc de Aztlan. The avergae Mexicans hatred for the US and her people is profound-this has been growing fed by agitators.They say "Go back to Europe"
Posted by: Wherethefence2007 | Nov 25, 2007 12:33:34 AM
Posted by: ray | Nov 24, 2007 8:42:56 PM
I find it very interesting that the land the US took from Mexico in the war of 1848 looks suspiciously like the land Mexico took form Spain in their own revoultion. What am I trying to say? The Mexican claim to the US Southwest was based on a EUROPEAN map. It did not recognize the North American Indian tribes like the Sioux and Commanche. Mexico's claim to the US is not a native one, rather it is a European one. The Mayans, Aztecs, etc had lived south of the present border long before the white man ever came to America.
======================================
Yes i totally agree with you but Mexicans are not all Native to this land
most are Europeans spain ruled Mexico for 500 or more years most are direct decedents of Spanish settlers there was a very small population of Native Americas most died of forgiven disease the Spanish brought with them
Posted by: Ruben | Nov 24, 2007 11:11:15 PM
i feel no sympathy for people that come here illegally they cost us more then they give back we the taxpayes pay for there free health care free schooling and for the morons that say they pay taxes think again You need a SSN Number or a valid work id !! and i see most that use racism as the true racist not the American people we have many different races that come here legally evry year ! even from country's we are at war with but they are following our laws to get here
Posted by: Ruben | Nov 24, 2007 10:58:44 PM
I own a blueberry and cranberry farm and have well managed to get the work I need done and the crops harvested without the use of illegal aliens.
Good for you Mr. Garland. It is rare not to see someone in your position taking the side of the illegals saying we can't get the job done without them. Nice to know that if one tries, this statement has no merit. We appreciate you and those likeyou.
Posted by: M. Goddard | Nov 24, 2007 10:27:23 PM
United States is the no one country in the competetativeness according to WEF.It is the most powerful, militarily and political entity in the world. It is going to be like that for very, very long time.United States, it's not just country, it's a continent. Land of oppportunity, it still is. So, it is going to be a magnet for all kinds of people.Among those, there will certainly be some unfortunates who are going to be called illegals, undocumented and illegal aliens as if they are some creatures from space. But most of them are like us. innocent, laborious and hard-working.The only difference is the system excluded them. They are ready to pay taxes, they want to be included not alienated. They wanted to be called ours not theirs. But,the political miliu that has poisoned all people so bad that it's almost irrational to get to a meaningful conclusion in their lives. We know our's is country of law but also we are nation of immigrants. Fore and foremost we started as immigrants away from the tyranny of monarchs, feudalists. In terms of humans, the people that seek freedom in USA are no different than the first immigrants that tried to free from tangles of Europe. On conclusion, we still are same today although we have differences. but in the end either we are sons/daughters of immigrants or the immigrants.We should always keep this hope to anybody except those who want to do grave harm to this wonderland.
Posted by: Suren | Nov 24, 2007 9:58:40 PM
The illegals are thieves ... taking from citizens physical space, money and political power. I would not torment the illegals, but I would drive them out with all prudent speed. And then -- have a long hard look at those who supported the attempted theft.
Posted by: ray | Nov 24, 2007 8:42:56 PM
I find it very interesting that the land the US took from Mexico in the war of 1848 looks suspiciously like the land Mexico took form Spain in their own revoultion. What am I trying to say? The Mexican claim to the US Southwest was based on a EUROPEAN map. It did not recognize the North American Indian tribes like the Sioux and Commanche. Mexico's claim to the US is not a native one, rather it is a European one. The Mayans, Aztecs, etc had lived south of the present border long before the white man ever came to America.
Posted by: Jon baker | Nov 24, 2007 6:01:35 PM
I don't trust a one of them either. HRC got up in front of the mod in March of 2006, grabed the microphone and said and I quote "I look at these faces and I see the future of America." Why another candidate has not pulled that one out as an ad to clairify her position, I'll never know. Rudy is all over the place between saying it is not illegal to be here illegally LOL and saying he'll stop this non-illegal illegal behavior in 3 years. I think Thompson has stood pretty steadfast on ths subject and Mike, well Mike is dealing with reality. Even though in theory these illegals could be turned away at the medical centers because they are not entitled, God only knows the backlash of unpolitcally correct, inhumane behavior and mean spirited discrimination that would follow. These people are not poor for heaven sakes, they just know a good thing when they see it. They know how to "work" the system. They have their lawyers, their Presidento in Mexico demanding they be taken care of and of course LaRaza right behind them all the way. They should be made to proove they cannot pay for medical expenses.
These people have robbed our young citizens of the opportunity to be actively employeed during the summer, to help pay for their own educational costs, to become better people and business minded young adults.
These people have robbed our children of going to school under one accepted language policy, to learn in classrooms that are uncrowded.
With the Democrats in power we can take this all a step further as Kennedy and his buddies tried to pass laws that would grant Social Security payments to those who established the accounts fradulently. Who ever heard of passing a law to reward someone who set up accounts with someone elses SS number? Have we all gone mad?
And oh, if all the illegals are allowed to stay just because they had a wild night in bed and produced a child, God help us all. I'm not sure you can find an illegal without a child they have had as a pawn in this game of illegal immigration. As I said, they know how to work the system and what's one more mouth for the American citizens to feed? No skin off their noses.
My favor for a presidential candidate is one that realistically cuts off the bleeding at the border, tells the Mexican government to shove it and deals effectively with the 20 million who are here, even if it is by atrition by way of cutting off their benefits and the job sources. I live in Mexifornia and trust me, a complete take over is not far away.
Posted by: M Goddard | Nov 24, 2007 5:18:54 PM
Of course as a supposedly civilized nation, we absolutely need to take medical care of any child, illegal, legal, white, black with no questions asked. That said The border needs to be completely secured, and it is time to send those who are here illegaly back, also no questions asked. Until the border is secure, and we get serious about sending the Adults back(and presumably their families), there will be no alleviating this problem. It's unfortunate that building a wall is a neccesity in a democratic country but I don't see another solution. Also, how bout making Mexico a better place to live so they dont all need to come here. That is the real root of the problem.
If this country with its soon to be Mexican majority (in some states) begins to over populate at the rate that Mexico does today we will very quickly become a 3rd world country.
Unfortunately in political circles ,where it matters, the subject of illegal immigration is just for show. None of the candidates, Republican or Democrat really care one way or the other as long as they get their votes.
Posted by: Rod Scott | Nov 24, 2007 2:34:25 PM
All of these candidates [both Republican and Democrats] are doing nothing more than bowing to 'foreign' pressure. They want to give their new voting bloc whatever they want so they can stay in [or ascend to] office[s]. They ask the citizens [and legal residents] of this country to disregard our own laws while demand that we obide by the same- which is perhaps one of the biggest hypocracies in U.S. political and national policy. Not to mention that [to some sources] immigrants in the U.S. [perhaps legal as well as illegal] sent an estimated $90 billion southward and out of the stumbling U.S. economy. This doesn't convince this reader that these foreign transplants have America's best interests in mind.
Posted by: K. Thibault | Nov 24, 2007 2:27:57 PM
I own a blueberry and cranberry farm and have well managed to get the work I need done and the crops harvested without the use of illegal aliens.
Posted by: William Garland | Nov 24, 2007 2:03:02 PM
What Rudy and Huckabee don't get is, if illegals need to go the doctor, they can pay for it. Why are Americans providing free services to non- Americans.
What Rudy and Huckabee don't get is we don't care less if illegals report crimes to police. If they were deported, what would the problem be?
What Rudy and Huckabee don't get is that illegals should not get benefits that are greater than what Americans get. Like in state tutition. If they show up for college without a visa, the get deported! Why should they be given a scholarship? They are over 18, adults and have made a decision to stay in the USA and break the law.
America either becomes a nation of laws once again or it does not. If it doesn't when are Americans going to start chosing which laws they will obey?
Posted by: Bettybb | Nov 24, 2007 5:43:56 AM
Jake Taper in this article asks what we think about Huckabee's comments regarding penalizing the children of illegals. Unfortunately, this country's awarding of citizenship to the children of illegal immigrants is a strong draw to emigrate to this country. You won't find other countries so generous and I'm afraid it's being exploited here. We're not "grinding our heels in a six-year-old's face" by denying the child and his family benefits that were intended for tax-paying American citizens. Rather, we are asking everyone involved, from illegal immigrants to the businesses that employ them, to respect laws and to encourage decent wages. A little honesty, a little less greed, and more jobs to stay here in America...that's all.
Posted by: csmith | Nov 23, 2007 9:48:48 PM
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