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Immigration Hangover?
November 23, 2007 10:49 AM
In his Times column today, our friend and fellow Philly-boy David Brooks takes a look at a speech Rudy Giuliani gave as Mayor in 1996 on the subject of illegal immigration.
It was an interesting speech. Giuliani argued as to why city services should be available to those in the country illegally.
"(S)ome of these children are citizens -- born in the U.S. -- even though their parents were not," he said. "If their parents take them out of school, not only will these children suffer irreversible damage, they will most likely end up doing damage to the rest of society. Similarly, illegal and undocumented immigrants should be able to seek medical help without the threat of being reported. When these people are sick, they're just as sick and just as contagious as citizens ... and could possibly become a danger to public health.
"And everyone should understand the practicality of wanting undocumented immigrants to feel comfortable reporting criminals to the police. Reporting criminals protects all people, citizens and non-citizens alike. It makes absolutely no sense to create a dis-incentive for immigrants to report crimes. Muggers don't ask for a green card. the Federal Government should not mandate State and City policies that have the effect of reducing the number of undocumented immigrants reporting crimes."
To those citizens who ask, "Why should we pay to provide services for illegal immigrants?" Giuliani said, "It's not only to protect them, but to protect rest of society, as well."
This was a Giuliani whom Brooks liked. "This is why Giuliani won 43 percent of the Hispanic vote in the mayoral race of 1997. This is why his candidacy once had the potential to renovate the G.O.P.
"Of course it hasn’t turned out that way. At the moment, Giuliani and fellow moderate Mitt Romney are attacking each other for being insufficiently Tancredo-esque. They are not renouncing the policies they championed as city and state officials, but the emphasis as they run for federal office is all in the other direction. In effect, they are competing to drive away Hispanic votes and make the party unelectable in New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado, Nevada, Florida and the nation at large."
Brooks calls this "the greatest blown opportunity in recent political history."
We've covered a lot of this back-and-forth since Romney first sized upon this "sanctuary city" issue back in August and Giuliani began hitting back.
What's been interesting to me more recently is how another candidate -- former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee -- responds to hits from Romney on this.
Check out this excerpt from our interview.
TAPPER: Another issue that's going to come up, of course, is an issue that's very important to Iowa Republicans, and that's immigration. As governor, you supported the children of illegal immigrants being eligible for scholarships, and you also supported free prenatal care for those pregnant illegal immigrants who needed it. How do you make the argument to Iowans that those were the right decisions, when they're so mad about illegal immigration?
HUCKABEE: Well, people are mad about illegal immigration because it's illegal. They're made because the federal government has shown just how dysfunctional it is.
TAPPER: But weren't you enabling it?
HUCKABEE: The issue that we've got to deal with is that, if you have a federal government that never deals with a secure border and then fails to do anything about dealing with people when they get employed and they can get employed with false documents, the question is, why don't you secure the border, end the sanctuary cities and amnesty, which I would do? But I wouldn't punish the children who didn't commit a crime. You don't do that in this country. We have a long history of -- we penalize law-breakers. We don't penalize their children for something they can't help.
If a child is gasping for air, asthmatic, and he's on the hospital steps, what do the other candidates suggest we do, let him sit there and gasp until he doesn't have any air left and he dies? If a child comes to our school -- and our law, by the way, in most of our states, mine certainly says you've got to educate a child if he's of child age -- what do you, break your own law and say, "No, you can't come in the schoolhouse door"?
No, you don't do that. What you do is you elect a president who will fix the problem where it needs to be fixed: at the border. But if your government at the federal government is so incompetent that it fails to secure the border, you don't then grind your heel into the face of a 6-year-old child over it. That's not what this country does. We're a better country than that.
Now, if that causes people to say, 'Well, I'm not going to vote for him,' fine. There are plenty of candidates out there who I guess would grind their heel in the face of a 6-year-old child. Not me.
What do you think?
-- jpt
November 23, 2007 | Permalink | Share | User Comments (51)
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That whole WHO BRINGS IN THE CROP argument is just the anti rule of law, anti legal immigrant, pro illegals supporters scare tactics. UC Davis just came out with a report and guess what, there is no labor shortage in the agriculatural field. However, to hire Americans and legal immigrants will cost the grows more.
Big business is doing a lot of spin on this illegal alien issue folks. Watch out. They are making mega bucks by having labor they can pay under the table or a great discount. The don't want to give up those profits. Note, a lot of the media is touting their line. All big business.
My impression also, like the first poster, is that Rudy is soft on illegal immigration. I just a feeling he will go for amnesty. Also, he has now backed off the fence and wants the "virtual fence". Both are Neo Con positions (ie Bush Positons), and it looks like Rudy has Neo Cons spport including the RNC.
There is a reason that Mexico is having a fit about the fence. It will work. The virtual one, may or may not, so far it is having problems. Besides, with the virtual one, it can go down at any time, lets say at the Presidents instigation, and not get repaired, if Rudy wants to open the border.
Posted by: Bettybb | Nov 23, 2007 5:40:46 PM
With all the disasters and such that Texas has given us(see ABRAHAM BOLDEN story), bush family, tommie delay, tbone pickens, etal, has nobody heard my plea to cede texas back to Mexico in exchange for a workable immigration policy????? start hearing then, yokels...
Posted by: daddy | Nov 23, 2007 4:56:59 PM
The illegal situation that describes the children should be part of the American Dream..yet..Illegal Immigration does support crimminal activity..//I have seen up close and personal--So. Americans--as both proponents and FILTERS of street level crime//on the other hand//there is the old institution of SLUM LORDING--this seems a slimy excistance of a poor economy//Bundled under POOR Business Management--the Immigraton FLIPS-thru the air like a JOKE//considering the business FACADE that icludes the Illeagal Alien..you once again have nothing more than EXCUSES where PERFORMANCE goes to sleep with strangers..not only a business develops..you end up socailizing..bad business for Grey Area's..like that's the next generation of intelligence..What-ever the SPPECH..the DEBATE..its all about Justice and Business..and in this realm..America looks bad.
Posted by: Mark S. M. | Nov 23, 2007 4:05:04 PM
George - as to whom would we have to pick the crops? I'm all for having criminals in the prison do this (as then they won't be sitting on heir backsides watching a bigger tv than I have - or working out to get stronger so their next crimes when they get out). I'm also for having to make welfare workers work to obtain their money if they are going to get money for more than 2 years. I think We the gov't of Legal Residents should get more for our $$$s that we are forced to contribute (taxes). However, our Gov't isn't going to be happy until we are taking care of the US Citizens who are lazy or illegal and all of Mexico - down to South America. Open borders, come on in, live life any way you want and have free medical and other services; meanwhile I have to worry about whether my company will continue to assist in paying benefits like insurance in case my kid gets sick. I happen to know an illegal immigrant. He lives in a double wide at $350.00 per month rent, have a 72 inch flat screen tv, brings home over $900.00 a week (and pays no Federal or State Taxes - only FICA) and to date has $10,000.00 dollars in his checking account. I can't keep these stupid politicians out of my pocket and give 25% in Fed. & State...and feel taxed to death, and I've NEVER seen $10K in my checking acct at one time and I make a pretty decent salary - so all of you - CRY ME A RIVER!! I want them back in Mexico, I want the cheapskate businss owners to stop relying on their cheap labor - cause it costs us more in the long run and I want my country to be one of 'The American Dream is what YOU make it" not, what the Gov't can give to you. IF I were elected - lazy sorry folks would be losing sleep at night - worrying; instead of good decent middle class Americans. God Bless all of you Decent Folks! Go back to your home Illegals and take your anchor children with you.
Posted by: my_Perogative | Nov 23, 2007 4:00:08 PM
None of you has yet to come up with an answer to sophillyfatz's question.
It's easy to get up on the soap box but there are some practical matters that have to be dealt with.
America's labor force (without the impact of illegal immigrants) cannot support the demands of certain sectors of the economy, in particular the agricultural sector.
We need a rational policy to provide an adequate workforce to service this country's needs.
Posted by: brentk | Nov 23, 2007 3:33:54 PM
FYI.. These three GOP Candidates are the strongest on illegal immigration and border security, Duncan Hunter, Tom Tancredo and Fred Thompson. I will only be supporting one of them. The rest are just another lame George Bush which this country can't take another one.
Posted by: Tammy | Nov 23, 2007 3:04:30 PM
Hey guys,
Your comments would be a lot easier to read if they weren't entirely in italics. Also, please put the oldest comments at the top, reverse chronological order is quite sensible for a blog, and quite silly for comments on a blog entry. kthxbai.
Posted by: Jake | Nov 23, 2007 3:01:49 PM
Thats the strawman arguement that the open border crows cry, WHAT OF THE CHILDREN? Tough, children all over the world pay the price for thier parents decision, thats life. If a man robs a bank and he did it to support his family, do we forgive his crime of robbing people ? Do we give him amnesty? Does that make robbing banks okay as long as you are doing it for your family? NO, IT'S WRONG, If we give amnesty to the 20 million people who spit on our laws and our flags, what message does that send? It's okay to break the law in America as long as enough people do it and you have children. Let's not forget that they didn't just sneak into the country, they have also stolen people's social security # and have stolen people's id's, they have forged govt documents and have used those forged documents to commit fraud and have wiped out Hospitals who now can't help american citizens. These are all class B felony's. We have Americans in prison doing years for commiting these crimes and yet people on this board and most politicians say it is okay to commit felony's if you are mexican, NO IT IS NOT. I have not seen one person running for president talking about amnesty for the americans in prisons for commiting these crimes, why not? By the way when white people came here in the 1600's there were no laws set in place so it was not illegal, look up the word illegal and get an education.
Posted by: Roger | Nov 23, 2007 2:36:14 PM
Its legal immigration that bankrupts us too.
43.4% of Mexicans in the US received means tested income assistance in the U.S..
Posted by: Old Atlantic | Nov 23, 2007 2:20:33 PM
Rudy is liberal in moderate sheepskin. He will never win the votes of true conservatives. Undocumented = Criminal.
Posted by: Carl Porter | Nov 23, 2007 2:20:16 PM
The War with Mexico was an imperialist war to protect the rights of white slaveowners. Abraham Lincoln opposed it. I don't see how we can be so mean-spirited about keeping illegals out when the people trying to cross the border are the descendents of those the land originally belonged to.
Posted by: Ben | Nov 23, 2007 2:18:01 PM
Did Huckabee really say this? I know he's a baptist minister but I thought that was a just for political reasons. Maybe he really is a man of god. What Christian would turn a child away at a hospital? I guess more than half of the GOP presidential candidates. Doesn't surprise me, they just showcase their religion when it favors their political agenda. They're frauds, most don't even attend chruch regularly unless it's campaign season..
Posted by: Claire | Nov 23, 2007 2:16:13 PM
The War with Mexico was an imperialist war to protect the rights of white slaveowners. Abraham Lincoln opposed it. I don't see how we can be so mean-spirited about keeping illegals out when the people trying to cross it are the descendents of those the land originally belonged to.
Posted by: Ben | Nov 23, 2007 2:16:03 PM
same thing as usual let millions upon millions in so they can suck every social svc dry.
Posted by: rick | Nov 23, 2007 2:11:16 PM
James Danley:
You are so right, I have been thinking the same thing for years. I live in California and see what illegal immigration does to this country. I take offense to all the illegals here.
I am of Spanish and Italian decent, but my relatives came to this country and became citizens the right way and without breaking any laws. They were required to speak english, and they did, so why is it so difficult for law to be followed now? It's because we have all these lazy liberals that think America should take care of everyone, including illegals. It has to stop, or we are doomed.
Posted by: Tess, California | Nov 23, 2007 2:03:42 PM
I have white skin so I am therefore unable to comment on any of this. I'm sorry people, but my awesome ideas that would easily solve this entire problem will never be heard because I have white skin. My skin is so white I disappear in a snowstorm. Anyway, what do you get when you put three ducks in a box?
A box of quackers!
Hahahahahahahah.
Out.
Posted by: Jack | Nov 23, 2007 1:48:11 PM
"...no bodies to pick the crops in California, Florida, and other states..." Actually we have plenty of American citizens to pick crops...there are over 1 million citizens currently in prison for non-violent offenses. We should go back to giving these inmates hard labor and send them out in the fields to pick crops. And they can earn the same low wages that the illegal immigrants are currently getting.
Posted by: James Danley | Nov 23, 2007 1:34:23 PM
Perhaps, we should deport all European descend white people back to Europe. After all their forefathers were illegal invaders and return the country to the rightful owners. And, all the black slaves that were brought here forcefully for slavery, that was ILLEGAL too. Under the pretence of "illegal immigration" talk, people are just exhibiting their deep rooted racism.
Posted by: LNet | Nov 23, 2007 1:32:42 PM
While I don't support illegal immigration, I gotta say that it's not the kids' fault--and no one tries to get sick. I know someone who won't go to the hospital because of the ID thing. I agree with Huckabee on this one--although he doesn't go far enough. We should stop penalizing the victims. But, without denying an education to children, emergency care to the sick, or law enforcement to the victimized, we should make sure that illegals are unemployable in the mainstream economy, and secure our borders. We should require ID to vote. We should make it hard for illegal ADULTS to get into this country, or prosper once they get here. Give them the incentive to go home and stay there, or come back legally. And we may want to raise LEGAL immigration quotas. We are a country of immigrants. Kids don't choose to be illegal. Adults do.
Posted by: SteveW | Nov 23, 2007 1:05:48 PM
Jerome Corsi on World Net Daily has an article, complete with FOIA documents, on Huckabee's questionable association with the Mexican Consul in Little Rock, Arkansas. It speaks of him using taxpayer $$$ to build the consul and then charging the consul $1.00 per year in rent. His buddies in business, such as Tyson Foods picked up the tab for the consul's expenses. This accusation needs further examination.
Huckabee has been the worst on illegal immigration as his record as governor of Arkansas indicates. If he gets the nomination, he will be another Bush if not worse. He is an open borders candidate!
We need a candidate that will secure the borders, fine and sanction employers and cut off taxpayer benefits. Fred Thompson has even gone so far as to call for an end to chain migration.
Ending the lures will compel illegals to return to their countries of origin. If not done, America will soon look like the third world these illegal aliens came from.
Huckabee is the last candidate that deserves the nomination if you are interested in taking America's sovereignty back.
Posted by: Carolina DeLoach | Nov 23, 2007 12:51:59 PM
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