A Female Friend Writes...

The comment was in poor taste, and so is having your daughter beg superdelegates for votes.

The real question should be why is Hillary trying to dodge the very debates she begged for? Time to toughen up - this response is entirely overblown. NBC suspended the guy, move on already.

If she is elected, Chelsea will likely have other comments made about her. Will Hillary refuse to work with any organization, say a foreign government, if any member insults her daughter?

I guess people see what they want to see. Misogyny? I suppose if John Locke and David Hume had been women then the mere fact that suffrage was delayed means that women will always be hated. Life is more complicated than that though. Politics was primarily a man's realm, but women have been there as queens, etc., from pretty much the start as well.

We live in a post-enlightenment democracy that is built on restricting the power of elected officials, not obsessing on how one of them can acquire more and more of it just so that a part of a constituency that one of them claims her as her own can continue elevating her to symbolic figurehead status. Read some political philosophy, and not just the womens' studies stuff. At some point it comes down to articulating intelligent arguments that work for the WHOLE society or for the political process generally, not just a segment of it. Many women here are doing just that. Others see what they want to see.

And the same goes for the chauvinistic men, too. I think there are incredibly feasible arguments for understanding that the term was in no way meant to be taken in the sexualized ways that many have - and I have multiple clippings from the past few years illustrating that very context as it was applied to MEN. No one complained. Nor need they have. The term is just being played out in this way because the Clintons want it to be. Not everyone's mind is so dirty or so focused on a degradation of women. Why on earth would Shuster have meant it that way? What happened in the family backgrounds of many of the women here that they automatically assume that men generally are "afraid" of them or of their success? The attitudes you are afraid of exist, but I am just not sure why you are afraid of them to the extent that you are, OR why you would have so much trouble believing that Clinton would exploit those fears for her own reasons either.

The real issue is this: Clinton wants to claim that her daughter can be used in a "sweet and innocent" way to promote her campaign, but she is going far above and beyond where Romney's family's gone. She IS trying TO WORK THE VOTES OF SUPERDELEGATES - ELECTED OFFICIALS WHO WILL HELP DESIGNATE THE NOMINEE. This is a level of political sophistication that goes much further than where Obama's, etc. or where any other candidate's family in the race has gone. And yet, AT THE SAME TIME, Hill wants to claim that her 28 Year-Old, $300K-a-Year Earning, Hedge-Fund Manager Daughter is too delicate to be interviewed by the Press regarding these activities. Yep, there is privilege being asserted. It's just not male against female. It's family member against the free press. Clinton said so herself.

I could say stop being so naive, but this is the same political family that dumbed down American politics to the point where the country couldn't see the difference between voting for Bush and voting for Gore in 2000. Welcome back, America! The dumb nineties are here to stay.

Hillary shouldn't boycott the NBC debates over this-- she's a presidential candidate and that's more important than a media slight to her daughter. Historically, much worse has been said about candidate's family members. Sad but true.

However, WOMEN and sympathetic men, should consider boycotting MSNBC and their sponsors. After reading the history of MSNBC's on-air sexist remarks, it's clear this is a pattern.

Maybe this is the tipping point for a time when rude/stereotypical comments about women will be treated with the same disdain as similar comments about blacks, Jews, disabled people, etc.

Enough is enough. Condoning remarks like this or finding them "harmless" is ABSOLUTELY indicative of the underlying attitudes in a society. Let's grow up.

Pimping out is correct too Jaz - but like shuck snd jive? - incredibly inappropriate.

MSNBC is right to punish the guy.

Obama for Presdent 08

Misogyny is wrong. Comments like the pimp comment and Imus' comment shows how
deep the roots of this misogyny go. Come on--in 232 years no female has held either of the top two offices in the land. Misogyny is just another way to keep all women in line---how dare they try to be a whole person and use their brains--don't they know men are superior! Keep 'em down with humor and when they object, say they're thin skinned,simpering women. These sorts of comments hurt all women and how just how weak the men in this country truly are. A strong man would have objected to the use of such words in reference to any decent, intelligent woman. The decent women of this land will speak and it won't be Hillary who is making them do so, it will be the weak men who will drive them to do it. It appears that a black man who thinks he can be president is subjected to less prejudice than a white woman with the same goal. Historical this proves out--white women had to fight to get the right to vote after black man. What I wonder the most about are all the women who are kept women--why do they hate accomplished women so much and strive so hard to keep them in their place. It's all more complicated than it appears. Everybody has a hidden agenda, don't they?

My personal take is that the MSNBC boys genuinely need to clean up their act a little. A lot of the stuff they say would be genuinely offensive to women (the latest comment being the least). Nevertheless, make no mistake the Clinton Camp is clearly trying to use this as an issue to galvanize / manipulate women into voting for them. It may work or it may backfire... if it work then it would be a great strategy. I'm for Obama, but more importantly I understand the importance of the current administration being totally removed from power. It's ok to be passionate about your candidate, but whether you're for Obama/Clinton you have to realize that a democratic win is bigger than either of them.

Wolfson may be smart to make it an issue - as he has, but he is not right to have done so. This is standard fare for the Clintons. They can't be heroes, so they settle for being victims. The comment was not meant in a way to denote any sexual connotation and your friend needs to speak to more people who are familiar with using the term to make a point before she passes judgment on what was meant by it.

The comments here are especially hypocritical given the Clintons' reduction of Obama to a figure of nothing more than his race (in the wake of his S.C. win), as well as implying that Obama could be no LBJ! Ha. Well Hillary's no MLK. How about that one? Which figure do you think WAS REQUIRED for civil rights to even come about in the first place? LBJ! That's funny.

Anita Armstrong states that she'll vote for McCain because Obama's supporters are too pointed in their remarks; as if the country should run its sensitivities according to Hillary's dictates. At least Obama's supporters understand the difference between what Hillary says and what her supporters are too cowardly to say. And the outright bigoted comments that Hillary is too clumsy to claim a plausibly deniable pass for saying, she just gets her underlings to say - and then fires them for it. The only transparent thing about her is her venal, Macchiavellian tactics.

What Hillary has turned this race into is a joke. Imagine how it would have gone otherwise. I'll join Armstrong in voting for McCain if HRC buys her way to the top. But then again, I'm an independent and have nothing to lament about the destruction of the Democrat party on the altar of entitlement, irrationalism and negativity.

Whay I've lost respect for in all of this are jounalists. It's not about honest reporting any longer. Maybe it is about ego or just plain ratings.

im a die hard dem. but if obama wins the nomination the republicans will have my vote.

All the people that have a problem with Hilary being offended, did you think Imas's comment was ok? Or how about the N word, are you just pouting about that?

Chelsea does'nt have to talk to anyone she doesn't want to. Especially a reporter that has shown her family disrespect.

So it's Ok to call Hilary a pimp, can I call Obama what ever I want because he's a public figure.

Last comment, before all these hateful Obama lovers started running their mouths, I would have voted for Obama if he got the nomination. You guys just won McCain a vote.

No apologies needed, Schuster. Like MSNBC can’t handle reality? Poor itsy, bitsy, wittle Clinton… Shuster hurt her teeny tiny feelings.

So the “good mother” makes it official she doesn't want her darling daughter to speak but just stand and look pretty before the cameras. Until she's really desperate - and needs Chelsea to "represent" when Obama gains ground and she can't be in "3" places at the same time?

Guess what Hill, you PIMPED Chelsea. And now you throw a temper tantrum because the media calls you on it? Poor baby, where's all that experience when you need it? Can't find anything to do but cancel the debate. sniff, sniff.

Lame excuse, illustrious leader. Can only imagine a Commander in Chief who’s gonna run the other way every time a stone is thrown.

When will the hypocrisies of the Clinton Clan ever end?

No apologies needed, Schuster. Like MSNBC can’t handle reality? Poor itsy, bitsy, wittle Clinton… Shuster hurt her teeny tiny feelings.

So the “good mother” makes it official she doesn't want her darling daughter to speak but just stand and look pretty before the cameras. Until she's really desperate - and needs Chelsea to "represent" when Obama gains ground and she can't be in "3" places at the same time?

Guess what Hill, you PIMPED Chelsea. And now you throw a temper tantrum because the media calls you on it? Poor baby, where's all that experience when you need it? Can't find anything to do but cancel the debate. sniff, sniff.

Lame excuse, illustrious leader. Can only imagine a Commander in Chief who’s gonna run the other way every time a stone is thrown.

When will the hypocrisies of the Clinton Clan ever end?

Sugar, I agree with everything you wrote. I was not trying to excuse such language, but consider the response to it. To claim that such inappropriate language is endemic of sexism in our society today just because a talking head with little common sense and no sense of propriety said it in no way diminishes the fact that it was not in good taste. But it isn't an indication that sexism is rampant behind the scenes of our society, either. I simply wanted to point out that, in the grander scheme of things, I thought the response Jake's friend had was extreme.

How biased Obama cult can be i can't even imagine. As a social being it is our responsibility to develop civilized society. Whoever says to whom doesn't matter if it is wrong thing to say. Obama cult things it's ok to say anything if it is for Clinton family. This primary will be over within few months but your behavior will be observed and will remain in peoples heart and mind. I am die-heart democart and i have decided that if Hillary is not the nominee i will vote McCain.

I am not looking for a president and cult group who is ok with encourages or/and uses derogatory word for their benefit.

Hillary supporters vote Clinton. So do Barack's for Obama. Democrat voters vote democrate, no matter Hillary or Obama. But many Hillary supporters will vote Mc Cain and so are many Obama supporters in favor of Mc Cain. People support Hillary because they are confident in her. They think she is moderate and not just fanatic left. They may not care for Obama but don't pay attention. Now through this entire campaign process, they dislike the unfairness towards her and from the beginning the agressive comments of Obama supporters now start to get at them. They choose to vote Mc Cain if Obama is nominated because they think Mc Cain is moderate for a republican . Besides he was in prison in Vietnam and had his experience. So that comes from their not being confident in Obama . Obama supporters who will vote Mc Cain if Hillary is nominated because they dislike her so much that they would take their revenge by voting Mc Cain. Now the unfairness towards Hillary is real. Michelle is an asset for Obama's campaign while Bill Clinton is a baggage for Hillary. The Romney boys out there helping their parent's campaign are left alone while Chelsea was pimped out by Hillary. Regardless the gender issue, there is the reality of moderate democrats, who just don't feel Obama is right for the job.What does the democrat party do with that? In the end Mc Cain will gain because he becomes the Middle man and will get votes from democrat voters no matter who is nominated.Maybe more thoughtful strategy should have been worked out. The republicans tried to erase the Clinton years and are Democrats trying to do the same thing? But voters who had a great time during the Clinton years will not forget this as times get rough.Give more thoughts to your strategy, you politician super delegates and delegates instead of following the wind.

Re:chuck
How do we ever get back to some level of civil discourse if we do not speak against offensive language? While I'm not loosing sleep over the remark, I'm not going to say "oh, well, just another stupid remark" and let it go. It is NOT acceptable for responsible jouralists to use this phrase -- as Go Vegetarian pointed out. As a society we are edging towards thinking that casual conversational style is acceptable in formal situations. But just as you would not wear a bathing suit to church, you do not use slang phrases in a news show.

Sigh, my post was just deleted from the comments section on the "Clinton Camp Furious..." So here, I'll just say: Well said raf, hc and christine!

Obama didn't win my vote, Hilary lost it. Her judgement has been terrible in this campaign and I'm deeply disappointed. Chelsea is 27 years old, there's no need for her to have her mother speak for her. She's a strong woman who has chosen to be involved in the campaign and call delegates. The point was valid, the objection (if one was to be made) came from the wrong party and the reaction was over the top on both sides. I'm concerned about the Clintons like I never was before, and it's all from their own mouths.

I think Clinton should boycott MSNBC and have ABC pick up the debate. Or have CNN do another more free style type debate. Anyone but MSNBC. I don't watch them anymore and I would really hate to miss a debate. By the way as I was flipping through channels last night. The cable guide read "The Mind of Manson." Yet it was a Legends and Headliners show about Hillary. Then as I flipped through again, it was some other female criminal title on the guide, yet the show was about John McCain. I thought that was conveniently weird for the far right press channel. I am inclined to think, they don't make so many convenient mistakes by mistake.

John, you wrote:

"In modern slang, "pimped out" means "excessively embellished".

Yet everything about the stereotypical pimp IS overembellished - his dresss, his language, his cars, his home - which is why the word is Used for the show you describe. This word is not devoid of a negative connatation about women, even/especially as it's used today.

Remember, the n word might be used by certain people in a certain group one way, but will have a very different meaning for another group. There will be younger, middle aged, and older people in both groups, but no matter how it's used it came out of the same racist past. And it will still be seen and be used as a derogatory term by one group - young and old. The same goes for "pimp".