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From the Fact Check Desk: Obama's Army Anecdote
February 22, 2008 1:33 PM
At last night's debate in Texas, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, told an anecdote about an Army captain that is causing a lot of chatter in the political world.
Obama was making a point about what he called "the single most important foreign policy decision of this generation, whether or not to go to war in Iraq." His point was that in opposing the war he "showed the judgment of a commander in chief. And I think that Senator Clinton was wrong in her judgments on that."
He argued the Iraq war "diverted attention from Afghanistan where Al Qaeda, that killed 3,000 Americans, are stronger now than at any time since 2001."
And then he told the following story to argue that Clinton's vote -- and the larger decision to go to war -- had negative consequences.
"You know, I've heard from an Army captain who was the head of a rifle platoon -- supposed to have 39 men in a rifle platoon," he said. "Ended up being sent to Afghanistan with 24 because 15 of those soldiers had been sent to Iraq. And as a consequence, they didn't have enough ammunition, they didn't have enough humvees. They were actually capturing Taliban weapons, because it was easier to get Taliban weapons than it was for them to get properly equipped by our current commander in chief."
Asked about the story in the Spin Room last night, Obama strategist David Axelrod told the National Review's Stephen Spruiell, "that was a discussion that a captain in the military had with our staff, and he asked that that be passed along to Senator Obama."
Conservatives have weighed in on this story, many of them challenging its veracity (see HERE and HERE and HERE and HERE and HERE and HERE and HERE and HERE and HERE and HERE.)
I called the Obama campaign this morning to chat about this story, and was put in touch with the Army captain in question.
He told me his story, which I found quite credible, though for obvious reasons he asked that I not mention his name or certain identifying information.
Short answer: He backs up Obama's story.
The longer answer is worth telling, though.
The Army captain, a West Point graduate, did a tour in a hot area of eastern Afghanistan from the Summer of 2003 through Spring 2004.
Prior to deployment the Captain -- then a Lieutenant -- took command of a rifle platoon at Fort Drum. When he took command, the platoon had 39 members, but -- in ones and twos -- 15 members of the platoon were re-assigned to other units. He knows of 10 of those 15 for sure who went to Iraq, and he suspects the other five did as well.
The platoon was sent to Afghanistan with 24 men.
"We should have deployed with 39," he told me, "we should have gotten replacements. But we didn't. And that was pretty consistent across the battalion."
He adds that maybe a half-dozen of the 15 were replaced by the Fall of 2003, months after they arrived in Afghanistan, but never all 15.
As for the weapons and humvees, there are two distinct periods in this, as he explains -- before deployment, and afterwards.
At Fort Drum, in training, "we didn't have access to heavy weapons or the ammunition for the weapons, or humvees to train before we deployed."
What ammunition?
40 mm automatic grenade launcher ammunition for the MK-19, and ammunition for the .50 caliber M-2 machine gun ("50 cal.")
"We weren't able to train in the way we needed to train," he says. When the platoon got to Afghanistan they had three days to learn.
They also didn't have the humvees they were supposed to have both before deployment and once they were in Afghanistan, the Captain says.
"We should have had 4 up-armored humvees," he said. "We were supposed to. But at most we had three operable humvees, and it was usually just two."
So what did they do? "To get the rest of the platoon to the fight," he says, "we would use Toyota Hilux pickup trucks or unarmored flatbed humvees." Sometimes with sandbags, sometimes without.
Also in Afghanistan they had issues getting parts for their MK-19s and their 50-cals. Getting parts or ammunition for their standard rifles was not a problem.
"It was very difficult to get any parts in theater," he says, "because parts are prioritized to the theater where they were needed most -- so they were going to Iraq not Afghanistan."
"The purpose of going after the Taliban was not to get their weapons," he said, but on occasion they used Taliban weapons. Sometimes AK-47s, and they also mounted a Soviet-model DShK (or "Dishka") on one of their humvees instead of their 50 cal.
The Captain has spoken to Sen. Obama, he says, but this anecdote was relayed to Obama through an Obama staffer.
I find that Obama's anecdote checks out.
Some are quibbling about whether or not the "commander in chief" can be held responsible for how well our soldiers are being equipped, since Congress provides the funding for the military, but the Pentagon (and ultimately President Bush) are in charge of the funding mechanism.
I might suggest those on the blogosphere upset about this story would be better suited directing their ire at those responsible for this problem, which is certainly not new. That is, if they actually care about the men and women bravely serving our country at home and abroad.
- jpt
February 22, 2008 | Permalink | Share | User Comments (385)
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the sad think is this is not unrelated the britsh army are also moaning that thay are being under founded wars are expenceive gordon brown and obama should increse the collition forces founding as soon as possoible
Posted by: scott orpwood | Nov 28, 2008 10:50:06 AM
the real issue about those comments are not wether they are accurate or not the issue is that senator obama related a story on a subject that falls under defence security telling the enemy on national tv that we are sending our troups to battle undermaned and ill equipt to the extreme that they have to use arms captured from the enemy to fight them. this puts the lives of our soldiers at risk because the leaders of our enemies will use this information to inlist more recruits citing our weakneses and to bolster their moral. all this to make a point that he as good judgment.lives for a point is not good judgment.
Posted by: ron | Apr 7, 2008 11:53:17 AM
To Bob: I hardly think that experimenting with drugs in school is anything to discredit a Presidential Candidate. There are plenty of members of our government that I'm sure use drugs, at present. So, he couldn't have joined right of college, but do you think he wouldn't have fought just as hard for his country as you, if he did join the military? This argument is completely invalid to his candidacy and this article.
Posted by: ManWithNoName | Apr 2, 2008 3:44:14 PM
Thats a great story the Army Captian told, But I would say he is inflaming his story. His unit relieved us in Afganistan. Never had a problem getting any type of ammunition. As for Mk-19/M-2 parts, I am very interested in that story cuase when we left, there was plenty of Service and Repier parts. As for vehicles, We used Toyata most of the time, had guntrucks. Never had any problems with maintiance.
Posted by: William | Apr 2, 2008 1:28:43 AM
The experience of this captain resembles stories I've heard from my marine cousin who is currently serving in Iraq but was first in Afghanistan. Unfortunately this is not an isolated story.
Posted by: yrwehere | Apr 1, 2008 10:04:21 PM
When I was an Air Force Recruiter in the mid '70s, if Obama had applied for enlistment he would have been turned away because of his drug experimentation in high school and college. Now he wants to be commander-in-chief. It's amazing that the moral requirements for an Airman Basic are tougher than those for the President of the United States.
Posted by: Bob | Apr 1, 2008 9:42:22 PM
You are indeed corporate media. You do not report some very real and pertinent problems facing our servicemen right now.I
I could not sleep so i got up to use my nebulizer to help me breath and i turned the tv on and there was a story of our servicemen committing suide because of the horrors experienced in Iraq. One particular serviceman who came back was to lonely and distraught because of otrocities he saw and had to partake in Iraq that he was drinking heavily and was trying to do it his way to get back to normal. He was so much in need of comort and acceptance that he asked his dad if he could sit on his lap. He wa a you solder only 23 years old. Yet he felt los and abandoned by the inhumane things that thei war has brought upon our military men.
Today is Good Friday. and our Lord jesus was crucified and died for our sins so that we can have life once more. I compare our sacrifices of our military you men who would rather die than go back to iraq or afghnistan to resume killing his fellow men and women. At least he does not have to follow orders by west point commanders who give orders that a morally upright kid from Ameroca does not have to obey any longer.
I was married to a viet-nam naval servicemen who was in the river boats in vietname and he turned from a nice innocent kid into a killer because the millatary turned him into a bad person. These kid that committed suicided had the guts to feel sorry for what was compelled to do in the service and would rather die than go back and do horrible otrocities to his fellow men the Iraqis.
This was has got to stop, now and this story was on so early in the morning that the corporate meid saw fit to show it but that the limited public would see it.
Tomorrow Easter Sunday we are shown that we will all rise and live again because our Lord jesus Christ victory over suvering and death to bring us eternal life. 3/21/08
Posted by: dolore wharton | Mar 21, 2008 3:46:33 PM
WHAT'S O'BAMA RESPONSIBLE FOR? ISN'T HE A USA SENATOR....WITH A SUBCOMMITTEE ON AFGHANISTAN.....
SEEMS TO ME HE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR HOW THE SOLDIERS IN AFGHANISTAN AND IRAQ ARE EQUIPPED.......
BUT IN o'BAMA LAND......SOMEONE ELSE IS TO BLAME.......HE'S TAKES NO RESPONSIBILITY........HE'S JUST A POTTED PLANT....FLY ON THE WALL.....HEAR NO EVIL SEE NO EVIL.....HE' AIN'T IN CHARGE OF NOTHIN........
I DIDN'T VOTE FOR THE WAR.....HEHEHEHEHE
THEY DID.....HAHAHAHAHA.....
NOT ME TO OUTFIT A SOLDIER......HAHAHAHA...
BECAUSE I DIDN'T VOTE FOR THE WAR.....DON'T LOOK AT ME.......HEHEHEHE.....
i AM SO HIGH MINDED......i AM SO RIGHTEOUS.........A MEN.......I DON'T GET A GOVERNMENT CHECK EVERY MONTH......YOU AIN'T PAYING ME NOTHIN.....i'AINT A USA SENATOR.........i'M TOO YOUNG......DIDN'T HAPPEN ON MY WATCH......
I NEVER BEEN IN THE USA MILITARY...I DIDN'T WEAR A UNIFORM......NEVER LEARNED TO SALUTE......OF FIRE A GUN OR RIFLE......NEVER DROVE A HUMVEE.....DIDN'T GET MY HANDS DIRTY......A SUCIDE BOMBER......NEVER SEEN ONE IN THE GHETTO OF CHICAGO......HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHHE....GOOD...GOOOD LAWD.....i'M MR. oBAMA....LISTEN TO MY SMOOOTH VOICE.........I CAN SELL ICE TO AN ESKIMO.........BUT.......I CAN'T STOP aLQUEDA....HELL...I AIN'T GONNA WASTE MY TIME WITH BEN LAUDEN....IS THAT A COUGH DROP BRAND.....HAHAHAHAHHAHHAHA
Posted by: brookeg | Mar 3, 2008 12:13:24 PM
Obama and Nader, they may be serving the same purpose when all is said and done in the 2008 Presidential race.
I'm upset that Obama, with less experience than anyone in recent history, is running for President, and is hurting Democrats... or let me put it differently, he is assuring McCain will win, and be Democrat Loss #3.
Obama has a huge ego, and no patience, and arrogant for sure, so instead of spending some time in the US Senate, and earning our trust through solid deeds and accomplishments, he got elected and immediately hooked up with Oprah, then Ted Kennedy (the oldest Old Boy in DC who owns his seat) and started on the road to STOP HILLARY.
In the end, Republicans will win, and Obama would have made a statement, that a Black Man is ready to be President.
So McCain will probably choose Rice and show that Republican policy may not bring change, and our economy will remain in ruins but at least they are willing to show respect women and black people.
Making a statement and hurting Democratic chances to win, isn't that what Nader does? Nader has way more accomplishments on his resume, so my answer is I respect Nader more than Obama. The Presidential candidate that Inspires me, and I have faith will bring change I can believe will be realized is, Hillary Clinton. Obama supporters like to say all she is a First Lady, but in fact she has spent 8 years as a US Senators, and has a record of accomplishments that is real. In the General Election, people will choose experience over Obama’s hype, so our President will be Hillary or McCain?
I often hear Obama supporters talk of Obama Uniting Us, and all I hear from my male friends who support Hillary is “People say men who support Hillary are Gay” (Not that there’s anything wrong with that – I say” ;-) This is another hidden – or not so hidden factor in this race -- the Bullying that is being done by Obama supporters is unbelievable. The Press is scared to death to admit Obama is playing the race card and sexist card, like no one since Wallace, and what it’s doing to race relations is tearing people apart.
Obama intimidates the Press, because writers can be fired if they say anything that seems racist and Obama is unabashedly running as a Black Man candidate. So they are helping propel his “electrifying” candidacy by refusing to criticize and it’s easier to report Obama’s criticism of Hillary.
Nader will do much better in this election, because he has a record of accomplishments a mile long, and seems very motivated to get people to wake up, and realize what Obama is saying, will not bring any change we can believe in. I voted for Hillary, and if she does not win in TX and Ohio, I may vote for Nader. McCain will win either way if Obama is the chosen Democrat for President. In that case, I’d rather make a statement, to choose someone who actually works for change, rather than Obama, who is a wild card, promoted by people whose main goal was to keep Hillary from being President, at the expense of the Democratic party.
As Hillary supporter, I feel that Obama’s is a guy, who should have earned his way to run for the Presidency, and if there is anyone who should drop out it it’s Obama. Thankfully, I have Hope and Faith, Hillary will win in TX and Ohio. I trust Hillary to bring the change she promises, and am so tired of the Obama bullying, sexism and racism, it makes my blood boil.
Posted by: Cass | Feb 29, 2008 5:01:22 PM
how are the neocon naysayers gonna knock this down?:
'Army chief of staff Gen. George Casey, testifying on troop strain before the Senate Armed Forces Committee Tuesday, said there is "no reason to doubt" Sen. Barack Obama's military shortage story during CNN's debate in Austin, Texas, last week.'
look it up, read it for yourselves, and then please stop whining.
Posted by: Steve | Feb 26, 2008 7:34:49 PM
Let's see.... What is the word from Obama Nation.... Four years ago.... at least three years before the Surge.... An officer and his platoon were short on people, training, and supplies. In the combat situations they adapted, improvised, and overcame.
This career officer and West Point graduate contacts the staff of a foot-dragging Senator who is politicizing every dollar they get and detracting from his mission to raise some hell.
Obviously, this officer still believes in his mission as not only he has retained his commission, he has gained a promotion.
This captain sounds a bit like another Maverick..... Senator John McCain.
Posted by: omarkhyam1951 | Feb 26, 2008 4:55:11 PM
What I find actually comical about this is that Obama tried to use a story about events in 2003 to bash a war that is going on in 2008. Maybe he thinks that the public is stupid enough to be taken in by the stringing together of loosely fitting facts to make his "non" point. When I heard this for the first time, my firsts thought were "What the hell is a Captain doing commanding a Platoon" and "If they split the platoon to two different theaters, that would be a first". I suspected from the start of this little gem, that something was very fishy with the comment. But then Barry O. is a politician, which means everything he says should be questioned.
Posted by: Jon Weiss | Feb 25, 2008 7:56:12 PM
The fact that the source remains unnamed does not invalidate the story.
But nor does it validate it.
In the absence of any substance, then, it remains a story, nothing more, nothing to get excited over, and nothing worthy of basing decisions.
Ben
Posted by: Ben | Feb 25, 2008 11:49:48 AM
A West Point Officer conducting a show of force/deterrent motorized movements outside the wire in Combat Zone knowingly of his platoon(-) inoperable weapon status?
Thought we taught West Pointers better, must of had a young Platoon Sergeant too.
Posted by: 1SG | Feb 25, 2008 11:49:31 AM
The problem with the numerous arguments about being short on supplies in every other war would be valid if we had rations, victory gardens, and war bonds in the US, and if Iraq attacked us first. Unfortunately, our president chose to preemptively go to war with Iraq unprepared, and all we seem to care about is the price of a gallon of gas for our civilian Hummers while our troops aren't provided adequate equipment from the very same company.
Posted by: Jim | Feb 25, 2008 1:25:45 AM
Thank you for the fact check. Our military deserves the best. I'd rather all non-critical issues, like the baseball steroid hearings and several earmarks, be put on hold until we can get the military the proper training, equipment, and rotations required to ensure their safety. I salute our troops.
Posted by: John | Feb 25, 2008 12:27:19 AM
I just LOVE to see the war hawks here frothing at the mouth! Why? Because they know they are backed into a corner by facts & public opinion which no longer supports their bully mindset towards the world. We now know that it takes brains more than muscle to win a conflict!
Posted by: BobinDurham | Feb 24, 2008 4:10:39 PM
I just LOVE to see the war hawks here frothing at the mouth! Why? Because they know they are backed into a corner by facts & public opinion which no longer supports their bully mindset towards the world. We now know that it takes brains more than muscle to win a conflict!
Posted by: BobinDurham | Feb 24, 2008 4:07:23 PM
if what this capitan is saying is correct, that means americans may be dying because of these mistakes. So your argument is that he's afraid to lose his job, so he lets his brothers die?
anonymity my rear end, Soldiers ain't cowards.
Posted by: jake | Feb 24, 2008 3:10:57 PM
Unnamed sources are necessary for freedom of speech. This isn't a trial. It is democracy and part of that is the freedom to write using sources that wish to remain unnamed publicly, especially sources that could lose a career if uncovered. This article is a check on what a candidate said which is also great. This is journalism. Because we the public can't get the names to trash and mob doesn't make the story invalid.
Posted by: Tom | Feb 24, 2008 3:03:07 PM
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