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Hillary Si! Obama No! -- Que?
February 06, 2008 10:04 AM
One of the big developments on the Democratic side last night was the huge turnout by Latinos for Sen. Hillary Clinton, winning that key demographic by a two-to-one margin in two states Sen. Barack Obama lost -- New Jersey and California.
Forget for our purposes the black-brown divide, as seen with the comment by Clinton pollster (and Latino voting expert) Sergio Bendixen who told the New Yorker "the Hispanic voter -- and I want to say this very carefully -- has not shown a lot of willingness or affinity to support black candidates." (A notion factually disputed by LA Times columnist Gregory Rodriguez HERE).
And forget for our purposes the notion of endorsements -- Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, Cesar Chavez's grandson, and United Farm Workers Union co-founder Dolores Huerta for Clinton…Rep. Congressman Xavier Becerra, D-Calif., Sen. Eduardo Kennedy, D-Mass, for Obama…
Let's focus on issues.
Because it seems to this gringo that Obama has a decent case to make.
Yes, the Clintons have a long and proud record of reaching out to Latinos, and former President Bill Clinton was the first to put two Latinos in his Cabinet simultaneously.
But Sen. Hillary Clinton has decidedly carved out a more moderate -- dare I say conservative? -- position on illegal immigration.
Surely some observers will see this as wise positioning for the general election. And yes, that's smart politics. And it's also in alignment with how the American people in general feel about the issue.
But Clinton's middle ground could seem to be a position that would alienate some Latinos.
The fact that she's been able to stake out this middle ground while winning Latinos would indicate defter political skills than she's given credit for, as well as a failure by the Obama campaign.
In Iowa last December, for instance, Clinton sent out this mailer opposing drivers licenses for “Those Who Are Here Illegally.” (An issue where she differs from Obama.)
The mailer called for “tougher penalties on companies that employ illegal immigrants” and “no drivers licenses for those who are here illegally."
Reasonable positions, you might think, but surely not ones that would necessarily lead to a 2-1 victory among Latinos a few weeks later.
When I first really realized how un-liberal her position on illegal immigration was, you may recall the quiz I gave readers, asking them to guess the candidate based on the rhetoric. The rhetoric (in Iowa, at least) is to the right of Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz.
"Now, some people say, 'OK round everybody up and deport them," she said. "That sounds really good. I hear that on TV, I hear it on the radio. But let me ask you how that actually works. You see, I don't want to tell you something that sounds good and then have you wake up later and say, 'Wait a minute --nobody said it was going to cost that much or be that hard.'"
It's not a humanitarian argument against rounding people up -- it's a pragmatic, budgetary one.
And, we should note, this isn't new.
In a February 2003 radio interview with WABC, Clinton said, “I am, you know, adamantly against illegal immigrants.”
She called for "at least a visa ID, some kind of an entry and exit ID. And, you know, perhaps, although I'm not a big fan of it, we might have to move towards an ID system even for citizens."
"People have to stop employing illegal immigrants," she said. "I mean, come up to Westchester, go to Suffolk and Nassau counties, stand on the street corners in Brooklyn or the Bronx; you're going to see loads of people waiting to get picked up to go do yard work and construction work and domestic work."
This has gotten her some positive attention on the right, such as here at NewsMax.com.
Conservative commentator Tony Blankley called her remarks "Pat Buchanan-esque."
He meant it as a compliment.
"I never thought I would write the following words," Blankley wrote, "but: God bless Hillary Clinton."
Perhaps there are some Latino readers out there who can shed some light on this…I find it a bit confounding.
-- jpt
UPDATE: A colleague writes to ask me why I assume Latino voters, most of whom are legal immigrants/citizens, oppose stricter measures against illegal immigration. The answer: because polling says so, as you can read HERE in a Pew Hispanic Center report from December 2007.
February 6, 2008 | Permalink | Share | User Comments (314)
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I think that people should vote for the quality of the candidate not for race, sex or color. Hillary Clinton has been working for this country for 35 years. She is the best candidate to be our president. Obama is just pretty words. Hillary offers solutions and actions. This country is a disaster and we need someone to take charge and control. We CAN'T afford to take a risk with Obama. He is a potential candidate but he is not ready yet. Wake up America, we need Hillary to fix our problems. We don't need Obama's pretty words!!!!
Posted by: Johanna | Feb 18, 2008 3:14:55 PM
It's sad to see how many Hispanics line up behind Hillary without thinking about their support. Part of it's because they only remember the economic success during the Clinton adminsitration. And part of it's because of the Clinton machine.
Hispanics should recognize that oil was $10 a barrel, interest rates about 4%, and a PC revolution was happening during Bill's term that had nothing to do with him. In fact he insisted that the budget could not be balanced. It was the Republican House that said it could.
Alan Greenspan called Bill a "good Republican." Bill repealed welfare and affirmative action, while helping big business through deregulation. His NAFTA bill caused a peso crash, which motivated Mexicans to move to the U.S. at a faster pace. It also really hurt the U.S. economy over the years.
NAFTA was good for big business, not the kind of small businesses most Hispanics are involved in. That's what Hispanics are overlooking. Business is not business; there's big and small businesses. And the Clintons have always been friends to big business.
Hillary was on the board of directors at Wal-Mart for 6 years. That should tell you something, especially since she claims that as part of the 35 years of change. Hillary does not represent change.
She and her husband have been supported by insurance companies, the AMA, the military industrial complex, investment firms that exploit cheap labor. Do
you think if she's elected she's going to turn her back on those people?
Obama's record is more in line with the common person, the small business, and those struggling to do well. Hispanics risk hurting their own destinies if they overlook his strengths.
Posted by: juan ochoa | Feb 18, 2008 2:09:29 AM
As I watched this Sunday (Feb 17, 2007) programs Meet the Press and the ABC program with George S. I could not believe how much they were trying to sway our vote for us Democrats. I thought only FOX news was in the game for such tactics. My goodness they have joined the conservatives in trying to make sure we vote for Obama because the press is well AWARE that if his the nominee, McCain will be the elected president in November. Do we really need another Republican in office? Have we not learned our lesson? Obama will make a good president in another 8 years but not now. He needs to make sure he delivers on what he promises something that he needs to be prove as a Senator first. Please let's vote for Hillary Clinton she is strongest, unbiased and most experienced presidential hopeful.
Posted by: Rosalba Saenz | Feb 17, 2008 10:04:05 AM
Of course Latinos are not racists; rather they are ready to vote for whomever they judge as honest, capable and positive. The comments about Latinos not being ready or not willing to vote for an African American are just standard ploys planted, in disguise, by the Clintons and their campaign, according to their traditional standard of slander and dissembling. Watch out!
Posted by: Common Sense | Feb 10, 2008 10:06:08 PM
After reading all of this about blacks, whites, hispanics/latinos, asian. This is making me sick! When are people going to get pass the race issue? If the issue is about illegals in this country? Lets look at the Welfare system, there are a lot of illegals here that is on welfare and they are getting medical, cash and food stamps. When there are a lot of needy American citizens/families that were born here, that have lost their jobs, homes, etc...and they can not get any assistance from the welfare system that was designed to help poor or struggling American citizens. How do I know this? Because I am a caseworker in the welfare system. I could go on and on about this, but will not I just think that it is not far for illegal to get assistance from welfare when needy American citizens and familes can not.
Next I'm tired of hearing about how Obama don't have the experience and Hillary does. People lets not forget the Presidential job is like any other job. Remember when we all were looking for our first real job and once you did the interiew you were hoping that someone would take a chance on you, so that you could prove that you can do the job, because you didn't have the experience? This Democratic election is just like that? Sometimes its better to step out of the box and give a new face (Obama) a chance over this so called experience(Hillary) keep talking about? I know I am tired of the same ole politics in Washington, so lets get on board and help change the good ole boy system in Washington and across this country.
Posted by: DD in Kansas | Feb 10, 2008 8:55:53 PM
I did not think that my comments would set off such a storm. For those who think I know not of which I speak, let me give a bit more insights. I lived and studied in Spain, I went back on my sabbatical over there, I have cris-crossed every nation in Latin America except Cuba and Argentina, I have spent considerable time in several Latino communities (albeit, not all Latino communities) in the US, I have, and still advocate for newly arrived Latino kids that schools try to keep out (yes they have tried it), I have worked with Latino politicians in upstate NY, in NYC, in the midwest, and indirectly elsewhere. Trust me, as a Black person who know about this country's history of racism, prejudice, etc, it pains me to say it, but the truth from my experience and what anybody who has any idea will tell you, if they are being honest, is that Latinos do identify with Whites. This is not a crime. In fact it is quite understandable, as they are in fact, more White than Black. Herein is the problem with Latino voters. They vote based on who they are, or who they perceive themselves to be. This cannot be said about Blacks, as they have always voted for White nad other candidates. True, there are examples where Latinos vote for Black candidates -think Tom Bradley of Los Angeles, but these are exceptions. In general, they simply do not vote Black. This is America, people should vote for who they want. But in this case it matters because Latinos have more to gain by voting for Obama. He understands their plight (if there is one) better than Hillary. In fact, the pundits have lost count on the amount of times Hillary has flip-flopped on Latino issues. How many times has Obama done this? They need to vote their interests, not based on race. With the exception of the Latino middle class, Latinos are right down there at the bottom of the ladder with Blacks. If Blacks rise, so will Latinos. It is time to wake up and smell the coffee, otherwise, every election time, they will find themselves being zig-zagged by people pandering for their votes, and still get nothing. By the way, I am still amazed at the comments Latinos (not most of them or all of them) make to me about Blacks when they assume that I am Puerto Rican. You should see the facial expressions when they realize that I am Black, not Latino. So please, I know from whence I speak.
Posted by: John | Feb 9, 2008 12:31:10 AM
Well, this is a little off topic, but I'm saddened by one thing. White men won't vote for Hillary because she is a woman. I had hoped that by now, American men were evolved beyond that. Finland has a lady president and she has done a very good job overall (except her initial take on globalization, but she's smarter now about that). Hillary has a lot of experience understanding that in order to get things done in Washington D.C., you have to build a consensus. Obama talks like he's going to go in there gung ho and make all these changes. But I think he's not telling Americans the truth. Hillary had those same ideas when her husband was president and despite her negotiating skills plus significant experience in the corporate sector, her health plan never made it to fruitation. Since then, she has realized how to get things done, knows when to compromise and when not to. Obama talks about healthcare, but not for everyone. He talks about foreign policy and some of his statements are poorly said, which reminds of the indiscretion Bush committed and ticked off half the world. Hillary is mature and has a lot going for her. I really believe that if Obama ran for office after Hillary's terms as president, it would be good for America. I might even consider voting for him then. As it stands, he has no experience at an executive level, he talks like a preppy college grad, and he's too idealistic. Hillary has plans for change on paper and all Obama talks about is his income tax statement. Who cares what he makes? It's what a president can accomplish that counts. So all you white males out there who refuse to vote for a woman, keep in mind that gender is no more important than skin color. Think it through and then pick a candidate based on their merits, not their reproductive plumbing. Thanks!
Posted by: Elf | Feb 8, 2008 4:28:46 PM
Bill Clinton pardoned 16 members of the FALN terrorist group that set off 130 bombs killing 6 and injuring 70. That helped Hillary in New York.
Posted by: JB | Feb 8, 2008 2:46:44 PM
Well, looks like the Spanish will have to decide whether they want Hillary or McCain.
Posted by: jvii | Feb 8, 2008 2:45:34 PM
Hillary represent the real change.
The conservative media like Obama, because it will be easy to defeact in a general election.
People know best. I think that in about 9 years with more experience Obama can be a great president.
Posted by: RAMON V | Feb 8, 2008 2:06:48 PM
you guys, remember that we are human beings first and Americans second. We all want the same things: good jobs, nice family and good health. Why cant you concentrate on that? why must this race debate about how Latinos hate black people and such dominate the campaign? why cant you talk about what each of the policies the two campaigns will do here? I have not read one comment on the TOPICS. Not one. Yet we claim we have a great democracy.. based on what? hating and spiting each other?
What color is the blood that runs through you? blue, black or red??
Posted by: John Brown | Feb 8, 2008 1:28:32 PM
glad the truth is coming out. she is boneless. not getting my vote and as a latina i have been trying to talk to my community... not easy. thanks for this article.
Posted by: j | Feb 8, 2008 1:08:48 PM
All of this prejudice between groups,lays right at the feet of white Americans.They started it to justify slavery and they will not give it up, piting one group after another against each other. The first thing people learn when they come to this country is the prejudices. We as minorities need to stop it, we are gaining power now, we no longer have to please whites by showing them we are perpetuating their prejudices, hatred and fears against each other. In fact, they've forgotten about all of us anyway, and they are pooling all of their power and wealth into their (conservative-"racist")agenda, and you can be sure it doesn't include us minorities to any degree. We are all (minorities) so poor we don't even realize how poor and far behind we really. Those jobs we are arguing about are nothing but slavery crumbs, but its the rights, education, and opportunity that will free us All. I hate to say it but it's the one smart thing that Black people figured out and fought for!
Posted by: seeker5058 | Feb 8, 2008 1:04:06 PM
uh-humm.... first of all I am finding most of your comments offensive. I am a college student who voted for Hillary and remember couple of years ago, when i was in High School, news came on TV about something Hillary was doing somewhere in the world (cant quite remember).... anywaysz.. My mother (Very religious) was so happy and proud of her accomplishments, I remember her assuming (NOT SO NAIIVE ARE WE?) that she was going to run for president sometime in the future and when that time came, she was going to vote for her. THATS WHY WE VOTED FOR HER; she has been making things happen for the community for years now and we have witnessed it before Obama came into the picture. We aint vote for obama becuase he is black... we just aint vote for someone who came out of nowhere making promises when we havent seen him do anything. Would we vote for obama in the general election if he where to win the nomination?? YES.... too bad it cant be used as proof because Hillary is going to win the nomination.
Posted by: LawrenceNY | Feb 8, 2008 12:11:55 PM
not long ago it was unthinkable for a largely white constituency to vote a black candidate................what has changed?.....Education! ...enlightenment!.......of course mostly the YOUNG and COLLEGE graduates........
You therefore need similar convergence amongst the hispanics for any better expectations....again its amongst the hispanic Youngs and college graduates that Obama gets most of his support.............
Hispanics are not different from other races .........improved education brings well-informed decisions.........for everyone knows that even if Hilary was to say... 'I will deport all Hispanics'... she would still get their overwhelming support....and that still confirms my thesis...
Posted by: JAYLONDON(Jay) | Feb 8, 2008 11:14:15 AM
....the stage of development of ones mind plays a pivotal role on how one votes.....a lot of the ethinic groups in the USA have come from very backward backgrounds(not meaning this as an insult.......for I have a lot these in my background too)....not exposed to learning dealing with still very mundane issues therefore not enough time to develop their minds......of course you see great difference in their votes compared to their young educated ones.......and of course that explains why the insiprational messages of Obama escape their comprehension.......in these messages they cant see his position on things(very loud and clear for educated minds)............Some years ago you would have seen a most white constituency voting a black candidate..of course now people have travelled have seen things ....education ....enlightement.........Now yes with these they can vote and see beyond colour....Should I say that with better education ....whatever ethinic group asian or hispanics .with enlightement and as more minds get developed would therefore see beyond ........sophisticated ideas can only be identified and appreciated by developed minds....
what am I talking about?........minds that are yet unliberated cant really reach out beyond certain points......certain groups would still have some years of development before they can attain certain things...I am struggling not to sound insulting.....we all need Education!Education!! Education!!!
Posted by: JAYLONDON(Jay) | Feb 8, 2008 11:04:34 AM
As a lATINO WE ARE VERY PROUD PEOPLE AND WE WILL VOTE ALL THE WAY FOR Hillary and there will be no votes here in new mexico for no black obama .this obama needs to be investigated for his taxes and for the laundered money.vote Hillary my Latino brother and sisters she will get better wages for us and better jobs this black obama only wants your votes he does not care about you .
blacks only care about themselves.
Posted by: Rmeoses | Feb 8, 2008 10:58:28 AM
As an African-American, educated woman, I cannot understand why people vote for Hillary Clinton. Why vote for someone based on race or gender or one's name? I was a former Clinton supporter, but after I found out about all the lies and corruption that the Clintons have created, I am no longer a supporter. This country needs to stop being ignorant. Actually, investigate the candidate's record. I believe Obama is clearly more intelligent and a better candidate to represent the United States than Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton changes her stories a lot to please her audience. I have also studied the economy. Of course, any war is going to bring the economy down. To Latinos, whites, blacks, asians, indians, mixed nationalities, let's be smarter and stop all this nonsense!
Posted by: Marie | Feb 8, 2008 9:44:10 AM
Obama's rhetoric is "Branding" from his Marketing Team. If Americans want a Speaker for President - we'd be better off with Tony Robbins.
Posted by: Juli An | Feb 8, 2008 8:34:10 AM
Yo Amigos, Hillary No! Obama si!
Posted by: Listen Up | Feb 8, 2008 8:26:01 AM
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