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Hillary Si! Obama No! -- Que?
February 06, 2008 10:04 AM
One of the big developments on the Democratic side last night was the huge turnout by Latinos for Sen. Hillary Clinton, winning that key demographic by a two-to-one margin in two states Sen. Barack Obama lost -- New Jersey and California.
Forget for our purposes the black-brown divide, as seen with the comment by Clinton pollster (and Latino voting expert) Sergio Bendixen who told the New Yorker "the Hispanic voter -- and I want to say this very carefully -- has not shown a lot of willingness or affinity to support black candidates." (A notion factually disputed by LA Times columnist Gregory Rodriguez HERE).
And forget for our purposes the notion of endorsements -- Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, Cesar Chavez's grandson, and United Farm Workers Union co-founder Dolores Huerta for Clinton…Rep. Congressman Xavier Becerra, D-Calif., Sen. Eduardo Kennedy, D-Mass, for Obama…
Let's focus on issues.
Because it seems to this gringo that Obama has a decent case to make.
Yes, the Clintons have a long and proud record of reaching out to Latinos, and former President Bill Clinton was the first to put two Latinos in his Cabinet simultaneously.
But Sen. Hillary Clinton has decidedly carved out a more moderate -- dare I say conservative? -- position on illegal immigration.
Surely some observers will see this as wise positioning for the general election. And yes, that's smart politics. And it's also in alignment with how the American people in general feel about the issue.
But Clinton's middle ground could seem to be a position that would alienate some Latinos.
The fact that she's been able to stake out this middle ground while winning Latinos would indicate defter political skills than she's given credit for, as well as a failure by the Obama campaign.
In Iowa last December, for instance, Clinton sent out this mailer opposing drivers licenses for “Those Who Are Here Illegally.” (An issue where she differs from Obama.)
The mailer called for “tougher penalties on companies that employ illegal immigrants” and “no drivers licenses for those who are here illegally."
Reasonable positions, you might think, but surely not ones that would necessarily lead to a 2-1 victory among Latinos a few weeks later.
When I first really realized how un-liberal her position on illegal immigration was, you may recall the quiz I gave readers, asking them to guess the candidate based on the rhetoric. The rhetoric (in Iowa, at least) is to the right of Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz.
"Now, some people say, 'OK round everybody up and deport them," she said. "That sounds really good. I hear that on TV, I hear it on the radio. But let me ask you how that actually works. You see, I don't want to tell you something that sounds good and then have you wake up later and say, 'Wait a minute --nobody said it was going to cost that much or be that hard.'"
It's not a humanitarian argument against rounding people up -- it's a pragmatic, budgetary one.
And, we should note, this isn't new.
In a February 2003 radio interview with WABC, Clinton said, “I am, you know, adamantly against illegal immigrants.”
She called for "at least a visa ID, some kind of an entry and exit ID. And, you know, perhaps, although I'm not a big fan of it, we might have to move towards an ID system even for citizens."
"People have to stop employing illegal immigrants," she said. "I mean, come up to Westchester, go to Suffolk and Nassau counties, stand on the street corners in Brooklyn or the Bronx; you're going to see loads of people waiting to get picked up to go do yard work and construction work and domestic work."
This has gotten her some positive attention on the right, such as here at NewsMax.com.
Conservative commentator Tony Blankley called her remarks "Pat Buchanan-esque."
He meant it as a compliment.
"I never thought I would write the following words," Blankley wrote, "but: God bless Hillary Clinton."
Perhaps there are some Latino readers out there who can shed some light on this…I find it a bit confounding.
-- jpt
UPDATE: A colleague writes to ask me why I assume Latino voters, most of whom are legal immigrants/citizens, oppose stricter measures against illegal immigration. The answer: because polling says so, as you can read HERE in a Pew Hispanic Center report from December 2007.
February 6, 2008 | Permalink | Share | User Comments (314)
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Hillary Clinton probably thought she’d heard the last on her ties to Wal-Mart courtesy the Brian Ross Unit. Here's a brief detail that didn’t get fleshed out in the Good Morning America segment last week: While publicly distancing herself from the company, Clinton has involved two Wal-Mart lobbyists in her campaign.
Clinton named two Wal-Mart lobbyists to her Lesbian, Gay and Bisexual Steering Committee last June. Ingrid Duran and Catherine Pino, the “D” and “P” of D & P Creative Strategies, are registered to lobby Senate offices on behalf of the Arkansas-based megaretailer.
While Clinton returned $5,000 she received from Wal-Mart’s political action committee in 2005, she has held on to roughly $20,000 she was given last year by Wal-Mart executives and lobbyists, as Brian noted in last week's piece. More than half of that money came from Duran, Pino, and a third Wal-Mart lobbyist, Tony Podesta, according to campaign finance records.
Posted by: Dave Peck | Feb 8, 2008 7:07:27 AM
Asianmalesmoker said:
"That is not what I heard from the back community few months ago, when they call Hillary Clinton as the honorrable daugher, when they call Bill Clinton the first Back President.
By the way. I did the math and I am very good at math. That is why I am upset."
_____________________________________
It's obvious that you are Asian by the screenname that you have chosen not to mention going out of your way to sight racially based stereotypes about your ethnic group that you might find flattering, "I am good at math".
As a white southern male I find it quite curious that we now have these different ethnic groups i.e. hispanics, and asians denying their support for Barack because he's black. I mean as a supporter of our boy Mac, I say keep up the great job people.
But temptations beckons me to submit this question, "Do hispanics really believe if it wasn't for the so called black civil rights movement and the subsequent political correctness that they would even still be in America, especially the southern states?"
I think not. I mean for god sakes anytime you mention deportation or anything to the effect of ending illegal immigration, the policies that were created during the "Civil Rights" Movement are thrown at you.
It is quite interesting to see how silly these different groups are. I for one never really saw any of you as REAL AMERICANS. Especially Asians, and Hispanics. Blacks at least I can agree help build this country and fought in every major war this great country has been in.
But hey, what do I know... I mean it wouldn't bother me if you all just killed yourselves.
Go McCain, ...I mean GO HILLARY and may the South RISE AGAIN!
-----------------------------
Posted by: The Truth rought in AL | Feb 8, 2008 4:15:13 AM
It's true, no matter how much you want to believe it, it is true. Latinos, esp mexicanos, do not like black people. everyone can try and lie and twist it up and hide it like they do everything else, but i wont, and the plain truth is that latinos and black people dont go together. now, im not saying every latino hates black people, but the majority dont like them. me being a proud mexican and growing up with my raza, we never did like black people. i have gotten along with a couple but that is because ive known them sense grade school. if you ask my grandma if she'll vote for obama, she'll tell u, ha estas loco im not voting for some chango q fuiste fumando cabron. and thats the truth. and all these plans to stop illegal immigration are not going to solve the problem. first off, us latinos do the jobs that other people wont/dont like to do. they complain about were taking the jobs, well if you werent b***hing an moaning about im not getting paid enough for what im doing or saying i wont do that and i wont do this, then there wouldnt be a problem. we come from a poor country to live the american dream. and to us, getting underpaid, is like being overpaid. making 4.00 a hr beats the hell out of what we would get paid in mexico. but the gringos and everyone else complains "im not getting paid enough" "its too much work" "its too hot". and we work harder and our work better and more efficent. we dont need all the fancy little gadgets, we make do with what we have. second of all if they do decide too "try" (which will never happen) to deport all illegal aliens, the US will see the biggest rebellion in the history of the United States. No, i cant speak good english and i will, have been, and always speak spanglish. i WILL teach my kids spanglish and to be proud of who they are and not to give in to the pressures of american society saying that we are bad. VIVA LA RAZA!
Posted by: chno | Feb 8, 2008 1:38:21 AM
Please some of you all here should try and get your facts correct.
Obama gets latino votes ..........from YOUNG EDUCATED LATINOS mostly. He was also endorsed by the largest Latino Newspaper and labour union with latino majority.........Yes Hilary has the most votes.Obama got the most Latino votes from his home state where he has been involved with them for a very long time......and they know him. You all should also know that Hillary has had a longer dealing with the Latinos...
So from these few facts some people here write their personal prejudice and not reasoned conclusion based on any facts. Please Obama's votes have been coming from several races ...........otherwise certian wins and their magnitude cant be explained .....Some here should strive to get some education!!!
Of course in every village around the world when a man or a woman has not shed some of their ignorance and have not been exposed to learning they would always think they are a superior caste and others lower ....this goes with all races .........to NOT think others lower than you comes with education and enlightenment .........the only divide I see, is that between enlightened minds and none enlightened minds ........Obama's electoral accomplishments have come via white men blacks asians latinos ....young men and women of all races inclusing latinos. Another fact too is that uneducated blacks favour Hillary .........please research for veriafication. Please always be patient and get your facts correct....PERSPECTIVE! PERSPECTIVE!!
Posted by: Jay | Feb 7, 2008 11:27:17 PM
Yes, I am a Latina and proud to vote for Hillary Clinton. Not because of my race but because she has the most experience, and I strongly believe that she will serve the American people well. I've got FAITH she will bring us out of this horrible economy phase we're experiencing. Unfortunately, the bid for this presidency, on the Democratic side, has become a race issue for some individuals. Please let's keep in mind why we need a true leader in office. We need to end this useless war, allow people to be able to keep their homes and help all of us who do not have any health insurance. VOTE FOR HILLARY CLINTON!!! WE NEED A TRUE CHANGE IN WASHINGTON.
Posted by: Rosalba Saenz | Feb 7, 2008 10:45:05 PM
You just ask the most silly question that how Clinton capture Latino vote ?
Simply because Latino along with Asian are not going to vote for a black candidate in 100 years. As they only recognized white as an real American but now the black and consider black as even lower cast than themself.
Talking about racism , I believe Latino and Asian are the most racist people on earth.
Posted by: ray | Feb 7, 2008 8:54:19 PM
Wow it seems like a lot of you guys fell for the divisive bait. Hey its a free country.. vote for whoever you want to. I just hope we can all just vote for who speaks to us.
Read up on their platform and vote. I hope day will come when we do not have to read articles like this one that focus on all the wrong things. The difference between Obama and Clinton is not much and they are such lovely people..Plus McCain is a swell guy.. I think as Americans.. we are ALL in good shape as long as a Bush is not in power..
Posted by: Nina | Feb 7, 2008 8:09:09 PM
I am Black and married to a Latina. Even as a student, I was amased at how even Latinos who are clearly Black, identify with Whites. My wife is much, much darker, has more kinky hair, has a bigger nose and lips than me. On the other hand, I am clearly black but have more European features. I was not surprised when I note than on my wife's birth certificate, it listed her race as "White". Herein is the problem. Latinos see themselves as white, or, they identify more with Whits. If you speak with people who work mostly with, or around Latinos, they will tell you the same thing I have just said. This is why they overwhelmingly vote for Hillary (mind you, there are a lot of exceptions). Ironically, most whites, democratic and republican will tell you that right now, Obama is the better choice over Hillary, but these people (and my dear friends) cannot see it, because racism is getting the best of them. The sad part of all this is that they dont even know it. All this talk about who is better at courting the Latino vote, etc., is rubbish. It IS about race.
Posted by: John | Feb 7, 2008 7:51:00 PM
Quoted from George: "OGUCHUKWU - Yes, President Clinton did do all of those things, for which we are grateful. But, he also denegrated the office of the Presidency by getting his freak on with an internship in the Oval Office. So, the question is, despite the good that he did, is he or his wife entitled to the Presidency?"
George, former president Bill Clinton erased the multi trillion dollar nation debt and create a strong economy for the US during his term and more, and YOU can discredit everything that he has done for this country simply with the Monica Lewinsky affair???
Sorry, but how narrow minded can you be?
Posted by: bvt | Feb 7, 2008 7:29:24 PM
davidfromCA.....it seems you are not really capable of appreciating facts when they are right in front of your nose ..........Oprah was not standing alone you perhaps did see the first lady of California and others .... you also heard Oprah explanations and defence of her votes and leanings .......but No if you show awareness of the full facts your very narrow and divisive outpourings would not show.........
Posted by: jay | Feb 7, 2008 6:39:39 PM
Obama gets the blacks, whitemen, educated, the old and the young?
Clinton gets the hispanics, the uneducated and the baby boomers?
The media are a bunch of people labelling buffoons!
Big Mac is Back!!!
Posted by: John | Feb 7, 2008 6:35:39 PM
On the issue of illegal immigration I was impressed with Hillary's answer during the Los Angeles debate when she answered the question from an African-american woman. Illegal immigration is a very sensitive topic and I'm glad Hillary isn't lying to americans on what she thinks can be done. Obama says he supports comprehensive immigration reform. That sounds great. If he becomes president will he then say that he supported immigration reform but he never said he was going to push for it? As an American of Mexican decent, I can vote for Hillary or for whomever I want. Just look at Oprah and 80% of African-Americans who are voting for an African-American.
Posted by: davidfromCA | Feb 7, 2008 6:30:58 PM
it seems to me there is a purpose for this blog other than a free discussion..............my criticism of a certain expression used here has been deleted and yet the powers that be on this blog felt the expreesion itself...empty suit is a good descprition of a US presidential candidate.
Posted by: jay | Feb 7, 2008 6:25:38 PM
Chas....it requires some level of intellginece to appreciate certain things and also to review history and pick lessons. Obama does have record. Besides he is a senator.Perhaps that doesnt mean anything to you.One can be for Hillary without having to resort to supidities against her rivals.
Also if you have some knowledge of the realities of the world and in particular politics...if you have some understanding of American political history and some of the personalities in it, you would known of those who have performed wonderfully without even the the third of the experience that Obama has.............I come from a country where the best CEO has been a young man fresh from the University dealing with all the corporate challenges coming up with brilliant great ideas that his experienced ones thought were unworkable.....by the way what experience of running a corporation did Bill Gates...............you may scream jay you are talking about corporation! some of you dont even know that running a corpoaration is more difficult that running a nations...........running a nation you take decisions based on a pool of ideas and experts ........you are surrounded by experts.
I dont want to make any adverse comment about Hillary but do your research you would find that Obama has more legislative experience than Hillary yet a lot of you in the USA are not een aware of that............let your expressions be very reasoned and with substance no emotional outburst then we would benefit from each other.
Posted by: jay | Feb 7, 2008 6:17:30 PM
I hope that you all understand that its not there are no hispanics votes .............more of it goes to Hillary and those that come to Obama are from the educated and young ones amongst them.... of course in most societies there are not many of those and more so in most American ethnic groups. Surely you would have those opinions and manner of looking things and expressing them common to the uneducated then a few brilliant ideas and expressions .....of course here you do have those ocassional gems bringing some bit of fresh air.I find some opinions here that seem to come from people who though they live in the US are not better than opinions you would find from some remote corners of the world where communication are yet to reach. I dont expect everyone to be able to rise above certain sentiments.No everyone is of higher mind. Amongst poor and uneducated whites blacks hispanics and asians .......I used the word amongst.....you have bigotry etc etc . Try and get well educated about things and other cultures them would you understand what Obama is about then would understand his politics his language his abilities and his record. By the way he got most of the hispanic votes in his home state. Education is not expensive and not in USA please read and absorp facts before you play with them. I am not an American its a blessed nation but it does have a lot of uneducated ethnic groups and I hope they dont derail a great opportunity for the USA to take its rightful place in the affairs of this world.
Posted by: Jay | Feb 7, 2008 5:31:42 PM
...by being a consummate liar.
Posted by: Patriot2008 | Feb 7, 2008 5:25:15 PM
She gets the Hispanic vote because she has been traveling with a Mariachi band. Have you seen her lately? Everywhere she goes, no matter where - even for coffee, there is a Mariachi band playing happily behind her. It's quite a thing to see. I think I'm going to vote for her as well.
Posted by: Chas | Feb 7, 2008 5:16:38 PM
In this article, Ms. Clinton said "...'Wait a minute --nobody said it was going to cost that much or be that hard.'...".
It will not cost alot or be that hard. Here is the formula that shows why:
Take 500 immigration officer per state
=25000 immigration officers
They work 20 days per month
They work 24 months
They apprehend/citate/process just 2 illegal immigrants per day
The total illegal immigrants processed or apprehended:
24 million!!!
So do not tell me that the 12 to 20 million illegals can not be addressed in a pragmatic fashion.
Now to the cost.
If each of those 25 thousand officers were paid $75,000 per year, that would be:
$1,875,000,000 per year.
for 24 months is:
$3,750,000,000
So if you round up to the nearest billion, then it would take 4 billion dollars for the two years, to fully address the illegal immigration issue.
So Please, Ms. Clinton, don't spead the lie that a) it costs too much, and b) there are too many of them.
Thank you.
People, do the math.....
Posted by: Pragmatist | Feb 7, 2008 5:07:33 PM
As a black, college educated woman (with an MBA)who supports Hillary, I find it very offensive that some are saying that blacks will not support her if she gets the nomination and Obama doesn't. THIS IS NOT TRUE SO PLEASE SPEAK FOR YOURSELF AND NOT FOR ME!!! That would be the most ignorant thing that we could do if we want to get the Republicans out of the White House. I am going to continue to support her. I am supporting the person who I feel is best PERSON for the job and she's it, period. I hate seeing the divisiveness on this blog and reading that blacks and latinos don't like each other---yada, yada, yada. That's all just talk. I don't feel that way, nor do most of the people I deal with, so again, don't speak for me. When I watch the debates,
I can hear the difference in what is being said and Hillary is very clear on her plans and how to handle issues. Obama is not--in my opinion. My choice is clear...Hilary is the choice for 2008. She can and will get things done.
GO HILLARY!!!!!
Posted by: HillarysTime2008 | Feb 7, 2008 4:49:45 PM
Hillary makes you think she likes all people? But I think she only likes Hillary! She will say anything and do anything to get elected and I mean anyuthing.
Posted by: trawetskv | Feb 7, 2008 3:42:13 PM
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