Political Punch

If you show me a politician that writes his/her own speeches, I'll show you a mayor or village trustee in a town of less than 5000.

There is no glass house. There is no stone. She simply lifted the curtain and let us peek behind it. She turned the mantle of perception inside out in a vain attempt to turn Obama inside out forgeting that she goes with it. They ALL borrow phrasing. No biggie. It's built into the game of politics, has been from the start. Hillary counted on our ignorance of knowing this and our laziness to look no further. Shame on you, Senator, for seeing us as so dumb.

The "plagiarism" thing is mighty THIN. First off, it's not plagiarism, it's adoption of language sanctioned by the originator. Secondly, Hillary has been "plagiarizing" the phrase first used by John Edwards, "it's personal with me," but most likely without discussion or consent. She stole his idea. It would have been wiser of her to keep quiet (i.e., ignore her handlers) on this non-topic.

Does this change the fact that Hillary Clinton has supported NAFTA when her husband was in the White House, and now says it was betrayal against American workers?

Plagiarism is a big deal to journalists, because writing is what they do for a living. Same with university professors, same with authors in general.

The rest of us just don't see political speeches as being at that level. We actually EXPECT politicians to improve their plans and programs, as well as their speeches, based on what they learn from other people as they go along. That's one of the purposes of the primary season. Why would we want someone who refuses to build on others' knowledge and experience?

The point is...people vote for the BEST candidate, however he/she got to that point, not the most ORIGINAL.

Clinton doesn't get it, Obama does.

Nisha: Yes, of course experience matters, but it is not the only criterion, not for the presidential elections and not in a job interview. And sometimes experience is a negative, when a person has not done very well on that job in the past -- which applies to HRC's handling of health care reform in the 90's, and attracting independent voters in her husband's campaigns in the past, and her own campaign now. Obama's health care plan may not be as comprehensive as Hillary's, but it has a better chance of being implemented, and likewise Obama has a better chance of winning over independents and even Republicans -- I've witnessed that in my own family and community.

It is now time for Hillary to bow out gracefully while she still can, and help unite the Democratic party against the phony straight talk of McCain.

This has been said before (wink) but this whole debate is just silly. And the more Hillary uses it, the more it's being pointed out just how silly it is! Those who live in glass houses, should not throw stones!

Just answer this. If experience does not nmatter then why do we we get rejected at job interviews with less experience. And the the other candidate who has more experience gets the job. I thought a president’s job is the most important job in America. Just being charming and good speaker does not qualify you for a job.

All you Hillary haters I think you all believe in double standards. One rule applies to general public and other rule applies to Obama.

I would like to compare Clinton and Obama as two qualified candidates standing near the edge of the deep end of the pool of politics in Washington. In the case of Clinton, I believe she has taken that plunge while she was the First Lady and a freshman U.S.Senator and thought she struggled to keep her head above water, eight years later she has managed to do so. Enabling her to effectivly be the Commander and Chief to change goverment and right America's failed direction we have been going the last eight years. In the case of Obama, while he paces the pool's edge working the crowd I feel when he takes the plunge he will struggle for the first few years before he finally emerges as great leader of our country and keeps his head above water. However, America does not have this time to do so. Having said that, I feel both are qualified to be President, I feel Clinton is ready for the job from day one. After all, we should take a page out of New York's Governor Elliot Spitzer's play book when he was campaigning and he too was looked upon as a Obama and the new Sherrif in town. Two years later as Governor he is having trouble keeping his head above water. see you by the pool.

@ yougottaloveit---"This plagiarism stuff is ridiculous and is merely a distraction from the value of the ideas that are being presented. As an attorney, if one of my colleagues tells me a good way to communicate a particular idea, I use it. And they do the same. In fact, we all sit around and pow-wow on creative ways to get a point across. We take each others ideas and we put them in our toolboxes, and when a time arises where we need to effectively make a certain point, we reach into that toolbox and pull out the best idea for the situation. In doing so, we can communicate more effectively, which is the whole point."

Please note I put quotations around your statement! I agree with you completely! That is one of the most rational, true statements I have read here so far! At least there is someone else paying attention to what truly matters...

It saddens me to see Obama sink to her level and the level of the media, I can only hope that he takes a second to elarn from Hillary's mistakes instead of what's the word..copying.-no-..Xeroxing them. What makes me sad is all of the smoke and mirrors have our attention drawn almost solely to what is happening in this campaign for the Democratic nominee ( although I must give some thought to the Republicans too they have been in the news lately as well) has anyone stopped to see what our current president is doing while our backs are turned on him as we knife each others? Come on people one of these two is going to be the president unless we mess it up and let the Repubs fool us while we are distracted with something shiny! I hope Obama wins but I will vote for Hillary their ideas are similar and it wasn't so long ago she stood on the platform of change as well. May the best man or woman win as long as it's not a Republican we can all be happy!

This plagiarism stuff is ridiculous and is merely a distraction from the value of the ideas that are being presented. As an attorney, if one of my colleagues tells me a good way to communicate a particular idea, I use it. And they do the same. In fact, we all sit around and pow-wow on creative ways to get a point across. We take each others ideas and we put them in our toolboxes, and when a time arises where we need to effectively make a certain point, we reach into that toolbox and pull out the best idea for the situation. In doing so, we can communicate more effectively, which is the whole point.

Immediately when Hillary said "thats not change you can believe in, thats change you can xerox", I thought, I wonder who came up with that line for Hillary?

Kinda Ironic...

To me, the debate was won on the last question of the night. Because Barack has no more lines to plagiarized, he went back to telling the same old story on how his father left his mother when he was two years old and then raised by a single mother and grand parents.

Now, compare and contrast Hillary's response to that last question, and you will conclude that Hillary is clearly the person with more substance and ready to lead the country. She did not talk about herself, instead she focused on the American people.

In 2000, we made a mistake with George Bush and we are paying for it. In 2008, it looks like we are going to make another mistake.

Small note: if you want to raise the minimum voting age above 18, then you should likewise raise the minimum age that the military can recruit or draft someone. But seeing as that would be damaging to national security, I guess it's not going to happen anytime soon.

Note: I'm no supporter of Senator Clinton (I actually have considerable disdain for her and her husband) but I still feel that she won the debate. However, she didn't decisively knock Senator Obama out of the campaign and as a result, she may have won this one fight... but has in turn very likely lost the campaign.

Rob H.

For the person advocating raising the voting age to 25...perhaps you've forgotten why we lowered it in the first place. Our young people enter the military at 18 to fight and die for us. They deserve the right to vote. And never let it be said that the younger generation is not able to study the issues. I have college age sons who know exactly what's going on. They know about and care more about the issues than some of the racists and misogynists who post in these forums.

As a person who was in the first group of 18-year-olds to get to vote, I can attest to the fact that you're barking up the wrong tree if you think people of my (older) generation will ever forget why young people were given the vote. We let too many young people go to their deaths during Vietnam with absolutely no say over their future. That should never be allowed to happen again.

The "thin gruel" is the Obama campaign's memo about Hillary Clinton using the words, "whatever happens, we'll be fine." Is the Obama campaign charging Laura Bush with plagiarism, since she too, has used the phrase?

Looks like the Obama campaign consists of sulky adolescents who got caught cheating and are angry and ashamed about it.

Jake, can you clarify as to whether it is the Obama campaign making accusations about Clinton's statements? The video you linked to does not appear to be associated with Obama.

Hillary set the standard. Now she is a hypocrite, which is worse.

Clinton, 92: "The hits that I took in this election are nothing compared to the hits the people of this state and this country have been taking for a long time."

Hillary Clinton, tonight: "You know, the hits I’ve taken in life are nothing compared to what goes on every single day in the lives of people across our country."

"...Secret Service relaxing security be ordering police not screen for weapons at Obama rally on Wednesday."

It's on the Drudge Report. The Star-Telegram staff writer, Jack Douglas, Jr. wrote in his article:

"Dallas Deputy Police Chief T.W. Lawrence, head of the Police Department's homeland security and special operations divisions, said the order -- apparently made by the U.S. Secret Service -- was meant to speed up the long lines outside and fill the arena's vacant seats before Obama came on.

"'Sure,' said Lawrence, when asked if he was concerned by the great number of people who had gotten into the building without being checked. But, he added, the turnout of more than 17,000 people seemed to be a 'friendly crowd.'"
A full investigation must be ordered immediately to determine exactly who gave this order to stop screening the crowd. It only takes one person with a small weapon to slip through to present a danger. But what if there had been 10 people armed with explosives. What were they thinking? What a huge lapse in judgment! Anyone connected with this decision should be FIRED!

Now as to the plagiarism charge, it's one thing for Sen. Clinton and/or her campaign to just bring this up in passing. But it is quite another to actually make this charge over and over again, especially when the charge can be made about her own speeches. It really makes no difference whether two individuals are friends or husband and wife who share thoughts. When a line is lifted from someone else's speech, it should be credited. Or at least a disclaimer should be used, i.e., "someone else once said." At least then it is not being passed on as being an original thought.

Actually, you be incorrect about the voting demographics for Hillary Supporters. Not all are women over 60.

As for the demographical history of the Obama, voters; if you check the state elections sites you will see that most are young persons, African Americans, and some white males.

I think that what that individual was referring to is the fact the most young people, do have a tendency to vote with their peers and / or parents. Can be easily lead with rhetoric, promises, and charisma. In addition, thrive on being a part of the group.

"Most" is the key word here.

Where as persons with more life experience have a tendency to not allow others to make their decisions for them. Do not thrive on being apart of the group.
Some/Most know when smoke is being blown.

Aaaah, that old Bill Clinton campaign footage from 1992. Really makes you think about change and the future, eh?

Obama won the debate. He is the only candidate who made connections between the issues. He tied the economy to healthcare, to immigration. She answered each question, when she would answer a question directly, narrowly. Plus she did not say anything new; it was her stump speech broken into parts, with a dash of rudeness toward the moderators and a sprinkle of cheap shots.

HRC is not what America wants. HRC is not what Democrats want. But, hey, I guess she nor her supporters will quit until TX and/or OH reject her too.

How many millions of people can you say are just wrong? Apparently, however many millions do not choose HRC.

BOOO to Hillary Clinton.

@ whoever suggested Obama is only winning because of young people and we should raise the voting age --Raising the age to 25 will not help, you would need to raise it to 60 because that the only group Hillary is winning over is seniors.

Then yes, as someone else said, you would need to further limit suffrage to white women only.

When you read all the posts and the other news agencies reports.

Hillary won the debate.

Why is it that the media, including you Jake Tapper, have done nothing, but rake Hillary over the coals?

After all we have man who makes statements that are never really verified or challenged by the news organizations or any media medium.

Example: his background: single parent family, poverty, worked his way up.

From where and from what?

He attended a controversial Muslim school, but spent most of his school years at a prestigious private school in Hawaii, raised by his mother’s parents. His stepfather was manger of oil in his country. His biological father was a Harvard graduate.

Exactly where is his hardships?

His race?

Race only plays when the money isn't there.

Is his race the reason the media doesn't bring the converse up?

By golly, you sure don't mind attacking the woman!

Why is that?

Oh, yea!
Money and male, right?

I have given you 2 sites to check the information.
http://www.levelrude.com/?p=4

http://www.notablebiographies.com/news/Li-Ou/Obama-Barack.html

Now what?

Pres. Clinton gave speeches in TX this week from the back of a pick up truck and he HAS been President. You demean TX by making alarmist comments and doing so in light of the AFrican American candidate is racially charged as well.
Hillary 08 - Truth and Pragmatism

This is just so, so silly and it's really getting on my nerves.

Although, I will say this: When Hillary started her closing I immediately thought it sounded a whole lot like Edwards because he always talked about them being "fine" when everything is said and done. Guess my instincts were right.

Jen - we need adults, real grown-ups, making adult decisions that affect the welfare of our children, our seniors, our sick and our fragile members of society. Do you really think it takes 14-16 years to educate a child ? No it does not; it takes that long for them to grow up. I really don't want the kid bagging burgers in a fast food restaurant, part-time after school having this kind of social responsibility and power. Four years of college would help

In the beginning, I liked Obama. But I soon noticed a pattern.
Our country is a failure.

Obama begins explaining our downfalls one by one. The misery we have
forced on others. I'm defeated...and hopeless.

But then, Obama speaks about being able to save us. My spirit lifts.

This pattern is becoming sick. Obama, nor his wife, acknowledges our
greatness. We are the people, over 300 million of us verses over 1000
politicians, and we are being told we are failures....but OBAMA can save
our souls.

Their speeches amount to hating who America is and pay back for being
told to wait in line (Michelle) for college. Over 100 years later and I'm still
being made to feel guilty for having to stand in line for college.
Wasn't it Obama, who recently attacked McCain for saying American could
be in Iraq for 100 years? Quite an attack seeing that his wife thinks we still owe her.

Desparation, desparation and super desparation. A commander in chief who cries because she does not have the vote. This is over, Hillary said goobye to everybody yesterday night and has shown great respect for Obama for his leadership skills and his vision for the US.

I think that there is nothing new under the sun, so you can always find somebody who has said the same thing before. Big deal.

P.S. The IRONY of Senator Clinton being accused of the very same thing she accused Senator Obama of is in fact a perfect way for this campaign to end - with poetic justice.

Forget all this discussion of plagiarism. Do they understand the issues? Can they consolidate a base of support to solve the problem? Which is significantly different than can they build a base to institute their idea of the solution. I am certain that Mr. Obama has a more potential to lead this country, but either candidate would be better than King George, who likely thinks Plagiarism is a new pasta.

Hills is actually quite likable when she shows her "human side", but this does not happen often - twice I think as ohiogal says.

The problem is that at all other times she's a walking talking Romney-bot, willing to spew forth the madison avenue slogan of the day. And the hollow Plagiarism charge was just that and a chance to win a news cycle or two.

This year people aren't warming to the robots (i.e., Willard, HRC) who tell you what they think you want to hear. Of the five candidates that are still in the race, 4 are genuine and one is not. Huck, McCain and Obama are as they appear. Ronpaul is who he is (crazy old dude).

Desperation sure is a stinky cologne. As an ardent Hillary supporter, I am dumbfounded at how her team thinks this is productive. They are playing right in to Obama's hands with every accusation. Hillary's initial tactic of centralizing her campaign against the Bush Administration had her in double digit leads everywhere, and then she started succumbing to Obama's latently negative campaign. She needs to get back to the positives, and focus her energy on what's wrong with this country. And in the eyes of most democrats, Obama is so right.

The conclusion of Clinton't message about Plagiarism:

Its perfectly OK to use the Xerox mechine I have at my home to copy my Husband's line, anyone competing against me are prohibited to borrow even an word from his/her friend.

Jill Mitchell,
Sounds like you want to strip people their right to vote. What's next? Denie women or minorities the right to vote?

If by some chance Obama is the nominee and by some very remote chance he is elected President, the American citizens need to take a close look at increasing the voting age to 25. If he wins, it will only be because he has wooed the young and impressionable. We all know how much the young like their idols only this idol has feet of clay. Hopefully the goods on Obama will come out during the Rezko trial before he uses his smoke and mirrors on the whole country and we end up stuck with him.

Using 2 words (unbolted, shipped) to accurately describe what is happening to the manufacturing centers in the US doesn't begin to approach plagiarism.

Repeating her husband's line word for word without attribution is exactly what she attacked Obama for. Is that the Xerox machine we hear?

The Obama camp actions just validate that the "Change you can Xerox" is not SILLY when trying so hard to accuse Hillary Clinton of the same.

Barack Obama using "supporters being duped" reminds us Oprah confronting James Frey author of the "A Million Little Pieces" with her reaction "I feel duped. But more importantly, I feel that you betrayed millions of readers,"

Let's give Hillary some credit. She could go down swinging and flailing and drag down the party with her. Instead, last night she showed grace, acknowledged that things might not go her way, and didn't stoop to underhanded attacks. This is the right approach, both for the party and for herself if she wants to preserve good relations with a man who will probably be the next president.

Hillary Clinton stated last night: “Lifting whole passages is not change you can believe in; it’s change you can Xerox.” And then as her very final applause line she says: “ … Whatever happens, we're going to be fine. … I just hope that we'll be able to say the same thing about the American people, and that's what this election should be about.”

That's almost directly lifting what John Edwards said at the Democratic Debate on December 13, 2007 in Iowa which was: "What's not at stake are any of us. All of us are going to be just fine no matter what happens in this election. But what's at stake is whether America is going to be fine.”

This is what Clinton chose to use as her final applause line for her February debate!?

How can she say “Lifting whole passages is not change you can believe in; it’s change you can Xerox” and then in her final debate line do exactly what she says her opponent was bad to do – even stealing one of her opponents lines!?

And why isn't anyone in the Media writing about this? Unlike Deval Patrick who is Obama's campaign co-chair, so it might be excusable, Edwards is Clinton's prior opponent who withdrew.

I hope the people in Texas and Ohio see Hillary for who she really is. Last night's debate shows how she double talks. Look who is using words from other mouths - her husband and John Edwards. Guess it all depends on who is wearing the shoe. The only way we will see a real change for the good is for all of you Texans and Ohio people vote OBAMA!! Obama gave very good answers and his substance was great.

Plagiarism, Looks like Hillary has learned a new word and likes to use all of the time.

Okay. Well, nothing like over-moderation to drive people away from your site. Cheers.

I did notice during the debate last night the ticker at the bottom that showed McCain soundly beating both Obama and Clinton in the latest polls. The damage has been done. We had a united democratic party ready to elect the first female president before Obama the pied piper. Get used to President McCain, as a Hillary supporter I will never vote for Obama.

I don't think Americans care if politicians lift lines, but they care if they are hypocrites.

Last night, Hillary stressed the importance of using one's own words and then lifts lines from not just her husband's speech but also, John Edwards. Now, I call that hypocrisy but Mr. Wolfson will say it's OK for Hillary to lift lines because she is selling action not words. America will be the judge on March 4th.

The positive takeaway from these lifting incidents is that people immediately recognized Hillary's Xerox moments last night, which indicates they are listening to what all the candidates are saying.

Ridiculous by the Clinton campaign. Really sounds desparate. And I'm a Clinton supporter (and also an Obama supporter).

I think the media and the campaigns have gone over the deep end. This is the type of elementary back and forth reminds me of my kids fighting... (she hit me, but you hit me first, no I didn't, yes you did, no I didn't....)

The truth is that there are probably hundreds of people in Ohio who have literally seen their machinery unbolted to be sent overseas.

The 24 hour news cycle turns nothing into news.

I don't fault Hillary for using a similar line, I just think it was planned. I feel bad that she can't be herself. She always is spewing her resume and talking about all she has done. All along if she would have just talked to people and not been all preped and packaged she may have actually won this primany.

Barack speaks from his heart daily. From Hillary, we've seen it only twice this whole campaign.

Ohio vote early for Barack.
Hillary, stay in the Senate and replace hapless Harry Reid.

Considering the Clintons are married, worked campaigns together, occupied the White House and Little Rock Capital together, etc., it's not odd that their stories and expressions would merge. How many stump speeches have the 2 of them given since the 70's? How many writers have they shared?

Obama got caught, and worse spun it.

As for unbolting stuff of the floor, no, these comments are worded quite differently, and of course we use examples, correct or not - how many times have you heard supposedly intelligent people claim Eskimos have 300 words for snow?

Does anyone else feel that Hillary's campaign is going the way of the non-functioning satellite that was shot down the other day? I actually feel a little sorry for her. Here xerox-zinger was actually pretty good, but they she was booed for it. Time for Hillary and the satellite to bow out. Obama 2008!

Fort Worth Star Telegram just published an alarming article from Texas about Secret service relaxing security be ordering police not screen for weapons at Obama rally on Wednesday. Gave me chills. Remember a most famous politician was killed in Texas over 40 years ago. All Americans would not want to relieve those moments of long ago regardless of whether they like Obama or not. CNN should report this to give them security service a wake up call.

Guess all that good will last night was just for show. Just like I thought it was. Man I can't wait for this to be over.