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Obama: Clinton Divides America
February 11, 2008 8:28 AM
At a town hall over the weekend, at the high school that inspired the Denzel Washington vehicle "Remember the Titans" -- TC Williams High School in Alexandria, Virginia -- Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, asked voters to remember that, in his view, the Clintons were titanically bad for the Democratic Party.
“Keep in mind we had Bill Clinton as president when in '94 we lost the House, we lost the Senate, we lost governorships, we lost state houses," Obama said. "And so regardless of what policies they wanted to promote, they didn't have a working majority to bring change about.”
ABC News' Sunlen Miller has more on this HERE.
This argument dovetails with a harsh Obama campaign mailer (check it out HERE) that argues that "Democrats win when we unite America" and goes on to argue that the Clintons are divisive.
"8 years of the Clintons, major losses for Democrats across the nation," the flier says, enumerating that from November 1992 to November 2000, Democrats lost 12 governorships, 7 Senate seats, and 46 House seats.
The flier seems to insinuate that the Clintons have a "political strategy that's been all about division" and pushes instead what Obama says is his plan, which is "about addition -- to build a coalition for change that stretches through Red States and Blue States."
"It's time to turn the page on the divisive politics of the past," the flier says. "South Carolina voters rejected Hillary Clinton's divisive and deceptive attacks."
"Fair or not, poll after poll shows Hillary Clinton helps Republicans divide America. Clinton's nomination would be a guaranteed return to the permanent political warfare of the last decade -- the kind of warfare that succeeds in winning elections for Republicans but accomplishes nothing for the American people."
Something the flier doesn't touch on is former President Bill Clinton's strategy of "triangulation" -- positioning himself in the center with congressional Republicans on the right, congressional Democrats on his left, which a lot of Democrats complained at the time made Clinton look reasonable and made Democrats look like kooky liberals.
In any case, these are strong charges. What do you think?
- jpt
February 11, 2008 | Permalink | User Comments (183)
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The campaigns of Clinton and Obama aren't causing a divide. On the contrary, I think it is bringing a large segment of the population together. As the race gets closer, or as Obama appears to overtake Clinton, I think we'll see the Hillary Clinton that we are all familar with--attempting to be divisive, threatening, and hostile...and this time it won't work. Obama's movement is unprecedented, and people see in him hope for the future--for not only healing this country, but also with the ability to bring the U.S. back in favor with the world. We don't need another experienced politician in the White House, ready to play all the political reindeer games, we need a miracle to overcome the damage brought about over the past 7 years. I'm willing to give Obama a chance to start the long process of healing this country and our status in the world.
Posted by: Larry Morton | Feb 14, 2008 10:40:05 PM
Obama Is so wrong, as his in-expiernce shows. Bill was the best and Hillary will, I repete will be better.
Posted by: charles risner | Feb 12, 2008 4:52:00 PM
I totally agree that Sen. Obama is extremely bright and very inspiring. BUT he is no less a Socialist than Sen. Clinton. If you want the federal government to manage our health care system with all the ramifications that entails (being told what you can eat and drink, what you can or cannot buy), then by all means vote for either Sen. Obama or Sen. Clinton.
Posted by: James Danley | Feb 12, 2008 1:16:58 PM
I am amazed that there is so little mention of the huge movement called "Republicans for Obama". I am 66 yrs old, and just "signed up" as one of them, & also donated to his campaign. I have never voted Democrat in my life, but this will be my first time, IF - and ONLY if, he is the candidate. He is amazing, extremely bright,and so very inspiring. Wake up, folks - people like this don't come around often.
Posted by: Sheila | Feb 12, 2008 12:54:16 PM
It would be nice if Political Punch stopped censoring!
Posted by: James Danley | Feb 12, 2008 12:07:54 PM
The Democrats are never held accountable for their actions (and inactions) by African-Americans. And when African-Americans have "stepped out of line," the African-American leadership and others condemn them. That is why there are so few African-American's running for office as Republicans. It's not for lack of conservative African-Americans. It's their unwillingness (and understandably so) to subject their children and families to such ridicule. Just ask yourself, "Would the mainstream media be enamored with Barack Obama if he was a conservative Republican?" Of course not!
Posted by: James Danley | Feb 12, 2008 11:57:45 AM
Actually if you look back over the past 50-60 years, this can be said of the Democratic Party. That the African-American's lining up behind the Democrats out of loyalty is nothing more than the mentality of the plantation. Even when the Republicans had control of the White House and both Houses of Congress, the governments of most urban cities with large African-American communities have been controlled by Democrats. What have African-Americans received through their loyalty to the Democratic Party? Mostly rhetoric!!
The Democratics gave many African-Americans cheap, if not free, housing and free food stamps for decades. But there was a catch...many found themselves forced to live in the drug infested and gang controlled projects. One of the top issues of every election in the past 50 years has been Education. Yet, in a number of large urban cities the dropout rate is around 50% for African-Americans. 70% of African-American children are born out of wedlock!
Affirmative Action! Many African-Americans have, in fact, benefited from affirmative action. But the flaw in affirmative action has been that in many cases it actually promotes the less-qualified over the more qualified instead of just opening doors -- a reverse discrimination. For some who have benefited and are now very successful, their success is somewhat tainted in the eyes of others who may wrongfully perceive that their success was handed to them.
Posted by: James Danley | Feb 12, 2008 11:47:26 AM
On electability, we need to remember that Hillary is carrying the big states the Dems traditionally depend on--New York, California, etc. Obama's wins in Iowa, So. Carolina, Kansas, Nebraska, North Dakota, etc. are, in sense phantom wins, because those states will go for McCain. And are these recent polls pitting Hillary and Obama against McCain weighted to reflect the division of electoral college votes? I doubt it.
Posted by: Robert Kelly | Feb 12, 2008 10:26:50 AM
Obama is just as much of a divider as anyone. Not to mention this lopsided biased reporter. Mr. Tapper, when I took journalism classes in high school, I learned that news is supposed to be unbiased. Where did you go to school?
Posted by: g77084 | Feb 12, 2008 9:03:23 AM
Yes we can! Yes we can! Yes we can!
Fools!
I want specifics! I want to get things done! I want action!
And I don't want my president making "BONE-HEADED MISTAKES" as Obama admitted about a real estate deal OBAMA HIMSELF INITIATED with Rezko during a time when he knew Rezko was already being written about.
And I don't want 130 PRESENT votes, which betrays a lack of conviction and a tendency to seek political advantage.
Fools! Fools! Fools!
How foolish we are about believing all this nonsense!
Posted by: Otillap | Feb 12, 2008 5:49:01 AM
I think the Hillary campaign has paid someone to do this dirty job! How could she stoop so low. I had empathy for her because I am a woman but reading all these comments, I think Obama is the right person. It is sad but regretably to note that she is very polarizing. I needed some explanation why she lost in the last primaries and she responds that it is because of 'African American' community. Read between the lines and you will notice that she is playing the race card. I am a white caucasian woman but we all know that Maine, Alaska and many other states like Colorado has just below 1% African Americans. And the next is that she say it is because of 'educated electorate'. Always finding some scapegoat. This is not fair. Let the truth be told as I sadly change my position. She is a disappointment and her race card is not doing a good job. They voted for Obama not because of race but because of what the world needs today. I wonder what she will say after Wisconsin. She will blame them as 'progressives'. Oh gosh, I am tired of all these. If you are paid to write this for Hillary, note that I was once a passionate Hillary supporter, campaigned for her but later events has proven that she does not have the vision to unite this country. She has instigated the Latinos against Obama in playing the race card. Evidence of this is shown by some claiming that 'as a latino' he or she will never vote a black man. I am caucasian and many of us love Obama not becuase of his race, but because he has got a vision! And again, he is even more progressive than Clinton in letting the Latinos get driver's licence one of the reasons why I ditched him. I presume the writer was not speaking for the Latinos for I am sure that Latinos are not racists as portrayed by Hillary campaign and some writers here. These are good people and they dont vote on race. You will be shocked in Texas. Obama will win.
Posted by: Julia | Feb 12, 2008 4:40:28 AM
I agree with Michael. If you dont want to vote for Obama, dont say that 'as a Latino I will never vote for a blackman'. I was shocked as well because I never knew that Latinos are such racists. I am British and the editor of a newsmagazine and I have some stories to tell next week. Just for your interest, the whole world is praying for Obama. We need a leader not a president. Give him a chance, you will not regret because you did. Baby boom in Asia, and Europe and Africa has Obama as first names. We need him. With Obama, America will restore her positio of leadership in the world.
Posted by: Alicia | Feb 12, 2008 4:20:45 AM
I dont believe the posts here. i am German and I have been watching with interest what is going on. I did not know that the Latinos are such racists. To read someone say that if Obama is put against Macain, he or she would vote MacCain with a 'heartbeat' smacks only of racism. It is gross and it does not speak well of Latinos all over the world. However, I have colleagues and friends who are Latinos and they are not racist. I guess the writer should just speak for himself and not for Latinos. Latino's are wonderful and what happened in Colorado will tell you that they actually love Obama. Please dont make hispanics look like racists. This is where Obama counts. All over the world, From Germany to Japan, Obama leads; every school children extols him. He is well known and his vision for this broken world is what the world needs today. If you dont want to vote for him, dont say it is because you are a 'latino' it makes you look like a racist. Just write that you dont agree with him. But not as a Latino. Again, consider that 9/11 was not just the problem of George Bush, ti was in fact a built up anger that accummulated during Bill Clinton's administration that exploded in the first year fo Bush's administration. From a historical perspective therefore, Bill Clinton is very complicit in what happened in 9/11. He did not do enough to defuse the tensions and anger against American imperialism. The anger simply accummulated and exploded under Bush. Now, the problem with the repbulicans is their error in Judgment, error which Hillary is also complicit in. For the good of America, there is not doubt that the leader America needs is Mr. Obama. I think the Clinton should give others a chance, for a fresh perspective, the oval office is not a family business. He had his chance and his foreign policy for all the touts of Hillary campagn did not do much for the world. Just consider one scenario: Bill Clinton was informed of the Rwanda's upcoming genocide and because there was no American interest, he refused to stop it. He knew it was coming and he did not do anything and over 1.5 million lives were murdered. He could have prevented it. This is foreign policy for Clinton. for the Latinos, speak for yourself and not for the whole Latinos, they are great people and not racists as some writers have tried to circumscribe by saying: 'as a latino, I will never vote for Obama because he is a black man' This is exactly what Obama is fighting against. This statement is extreme and if Obama loses the nomination, you can bet that Hillary will never win. Good luck
Posted by: Michael | Feb 12, 2008 4:08:45 AM
All I am reading here are attacks ON Obama by Clinton fanatics. Clearly the little Hillfans are busy typing away trying to creat a story where there is none. I think Mark Penn has sicced a few volunteers on each website dealing with the primaries to drum up the anti-Obama vitriol.
Also, why is it that so few Hillary supporters can use grammar, punctuation and paragraphs? Is this why well educated voters are shying away from her? Perhaps better educated voters also have longer memories and so have not forgotten what the Clintons are really like.
I also do not know why "46" is considered immature and young. Bill was not much older than this when he began his much vaunted leadership of the free world and all that.
Posted by: Liz | Feb 12, 2008 3:26:26 AM
I think the reason so many Obama supporters are divisive is because they are actually republicans posing as independents. Everyone keeps blaming the Clintons for being divisive and polarizing when in actuality it is the republicans who are the hate mongers. They hounded the Clintons the entire time they were in office and in spite of their efforts Bill Clinton was the best President this country has had in the last 50 years. It is going to take someone tough like Hillary to get things done in Washinton. Contray to what some of the Obama supporters think, the sea is not going to part when he glides into the white house and the republicans aren't going to do his bidding just because he says pretty please.
Posted by: Firefighter | Feb 12, 2008 2:41:14 AM
Clinton does divide America. Just after Wellseley, she played the gender card, vote for me, I'm a female. NOW is currently pushing that idea, and any woman not voting for Hillary is considered a traitor. Personally, to me, that she has to rely on such an argument, instead of on her qualities, shows that she doesn't have what it takes to be a President. Will that be how she leads our country, with indignation that, when someone doesn't listen to her, that it's because she's a woman? I've had enough of that already. If she can't take the heat with dignity, she's not ready.
Posted by: Karen | Feb 12, 2008 1:00:33 AM
qster: "I want someone with experience not someone who just says things. Our country cannot afford to give an important job to someone who has done nothing." Ahh, you have your candidates mixed up. Obama has an amazing legislative record that covers nuclear disarmament; alternative energy; a viable health care program in Illinois; government ethics; foreign aid, the right judgement on Iraq, Iran, cluster bombs; the ability to find concensus on difficult bills; he's unencumbered from lobbyists, so he can set the agenda; and he has a vision for this country. These are great credentials.
Posted by: Matt | Feb 12, 2008 12:39:55 AM
My family did very well during the Bill Clinton years. The economy was good, we had a trillion dollar surplus, we had money in our pockets, jobs and freinds around the world. Mark my words, Hillary willmake an even better president than Bill.
Posted by: VPNathan3 | Feb 12, 2008 12:15:20 AM
Friends:Not since the days of Truman, have we faced a more difficult and turbulent time in our history.We are in two wars,one which is justified and the other not, there are fanatical terrorists who are out to destroy our dream, our borders are insecure, the economy is in a shambles,the Chinese and the Arabs are bailing out our corporate giants,the dollar is so worthless that middle class Americans such as me can't afford to travel abroad,our people are losing their biggest asset which is their home, we have a health care crisis which is on the verge of collapse, the number of uninsured or underinsured Americans are about 50 percent of the population, we are beholden to the oil states and the sheiks, and our environment is falling apart. We have to think carefully about whom we elect as our next president.We should not be carried away by our hearts and use our minds at this crucial juncture.For me, there is only one candidate who can deal with our multitude of problems and that is Hillary. She is a strong and courageous woman who has withstood assaults on personality, character, family, sex, name it whatever.She has a track record for strong work ethic and over the past 8 years in the senate, she has shown that she can work across party lines to negotiate and achieve a consensus. To those who believe that a single person can bring about change that is foolhardy.Our forefathers have created a great system of pride for all of us with the three arms of the government which bring about the checks and balances which protect all of us.Hillary has been at the forefront in the battle for civic rights, children's and women's rights, abused children and women, families ("It takes a Village") and health care.
Posted by: VPNathan3 | Feb 12, 2008 12:08:04 AM
There is an old saying that we get the government we deserve. The comments of Anonymous Democrat for Hillary Clinton are the proof in the pudding. The ideas that a Democratic party member would vote for McCain is as silly and disingenuous as Ann Coulter saying she will vote for Hillary Clinton. As is the assumption that Sen. Clinton has more experience or that the Clinton's did so much for black people. We are debating perception people, not facts. Do Hillary supporters perceive her as being more experienced because she's older? Or is there something else about Obama that they don't like that is politically correct to say?
The fact is a vote for McCain is a continuation of the failed policies of the past 8 years. No one really knows what a vote for either Clinton or Obama means; Obama is an unknown but inspiring quantity. The simple fact is that we can't ever go back to the 90's; they are gone never to return.
I have not voted for Clinton in the Missouri primaries for a couple reasons:
1. Her close relationships to Washington lobbyist. She can't fight for the interests if the American people if she is in the pocket of corporate interests.
2. Her politics are the politics of 50+1. Are they going to try and out-Rove Rove? If South Carolina is any indication they are well on their way.
and finally,
3. I don't feel any obligation to her because some people believe President Clinton was good for people of color. People of color need to reflect on whether their lives improved. Did the achievement gap decrease? Did the Clinton administration decrease the percentage of black men in prison or stabilize the black family? The assumption that any socio-ethnic group owes ANY party allegiance is ridiculous.
I'm a free thinker, not sheeple.
In many cases this requirement that blacks line up behind the Clinton's out loyalty is nothing more the mentality of the plantation. Clinton offers us more of the same. And as Howard Dean said in 2004, we can do better than that.
Posted by: Damon Harris | Feb 11, 2008 11:26:50 PM
Oh please, Hillary a Republican nonsense. First of all Obama is not above the dirty tricks he just has someone else do them to keep his hands clean. First the other candidates double-teaming, then the media, and last but not least Ted Kennedy. The Obama supporters in Iowa were some of the rudest. They berated and insulted other candidates and their supporters. They reminded me of hard sell telemarketers. Many were asked to leave the homes they showed up at the night before the caucus. At the caucus they were intimidating. Many were at the wrong place but it wasn't found out until the caucus was over, they were counted. Did Obama really win? We will never know for sure.
Posted by: plh | Feb 11, 2008 11:22:19 PM
The centrepiece of Obama's campaign has been the claim that he is the candidate of "hope" and "change" as opposed to the establishment figure, Hillary Clinton. He has crowned himself the king of post-racial and post-partisan politics. With the assistance of the corporate media, he has captured the imagination and hope of millions of voters, particularly new layers of politicised young people.
The truth behind the Obama phenomenon, however, is much less attractive than the image. If you look at his concrete policies, voting record and source of campaign funds, Obama is a trusted servant of the big business elite. He represents the US ruling class's desperate attempt to put a new face on its domestic and global domination.
Obama's list of top campaign contributors reads like a Wall Street Who's Who list, with Goldman Sachs at the top. How does he deny taking money from lobbyists and PACs [Political Action Committees, which can receive up to $5,000 a year from any one individual - Eds.] and still raise over $100 million? The answer is the magic of 'bundling' - elite individuals with a lot of influence get many senior and junior level executives to donate the maximum amounts.
As of 29 October 2007 , Obama had received 46% of his campaign money from mega-rich donors who had given $2,300 or more.
Posted by: Carol | Feb 11, 2008 11:15:16 PM
Wow, something strange is going on here. I have been reading the comments on Obama stories for weeks and suddenly all these Clinton fans are coming out of the woodwork to post comments that are either inaccurate, downright nasty or just plain silly.
The truth of the matter is what Obama is saying about Bill Clinton's presidency is true. It did lead to the Republicans gaining strength. And to me the worst part wasn't all the lawsuits and investigations of the Clintons but Bill championing NAFTA and pushing it through Congress. And then he did the same with the Chinese Trade Agreement. This cost American jobs, NAFTA alone is estimated to have taken a million jobs out of this country. The only ones who benefitted were corporations. The Clintons never had the interests of the American people at heart, as evidenced by all the years Hillary was a corporate lawyer and all the donations she has received from corporations. Contrast that with Obama's thousands of donations, 394,000 so far and you understand who he will be working for, all of us ordinary Americans. We really can't wait any longer for relief from corporate greed running our government. Obama is the one to help us regain control of our country.
Posted by: Lydia | Feb 11, 2008 9:54:18 PM
It is so sad how people let their personal feelings interfere with respective issues of the primaries. The media, especially CNN has practically hailed Senator Obama as to victor. As intelligent individuals why do we let the media decide for us. As a black female, i have a lot of respect for Senator Obama. He is an intelligent man with a lot of views for the future. But on the other hand, Senator Clinton has more experience. As a black woman i am ashame to see Obama cry racism one comments are made. The Clintons have done far more than Obama has ever done for the black community. Obama has to stop attacking President Bill Clinton because he is not the one his running against. He needs to focus on Hillary. Everyone is also talking about unity. How come respected democratic leaders like Ted Kennedy are making endorsements before we have a democratic front runner if it the claim they want to party to unite.
Posted by: laura T | Feb 11, 2008 9:37:32 PM
Loise, talking about what has happened in history to the Democratic Party while the Clinton's are in office is not personal.
Obama has always said he would speak the truth, but that the scandals were off the table. The impact on the Party is fair game, and also something important to consider.
Posted by: Matt | Feb 11, 2008 9:30:08 PM
Obama's claims about Clinton being a "divisive" figure are really just a distraction from his own lack of a record on the national stage. Hillary Clinton has been in the Senate for 8 years working with colleagues on both sides on the aisle and building a record of accomplishment. Barack Obama has been in the Senate only half that time, and his prime accomplishment is running for President. His rhetoric does not add up when you compare the records.
Posted by: Bob | Feb 11, 2008 9:24:28 PM
People of the Potamac, PLEASE come out and stop the hype of Obama!!! The future of the country is in YOUR hands. This guy has never been to Iraq. Hillary has been there multiple times to educate herself about the volatile & violent situation. Past all of the rhetoric, where is the substance? McCain will eat Obama for breakfast if Obama is the nominee. Let's break it down: A veteran running against a guy who never has been to Iraq...equals a win for the Republicans.
Posted by: Potamac Primaries | Feb 11, 2008 9:05:55 PM
I can not stand the negative mean spirited divisive and hate filled blogs from the Obama supporters any more.
I will tell all my friends and family that, as a Democrat, I will vote for the Democratic candidate.
But in the privacy of the voting booth, I will cast my vote for McCain, if Clinton in not on the ballot.
I would rather have a moderate republican for 4 years, than reward the mean spirited Obama supporters on all of these blogs.
Perhaps this is what the media wants and that is why they Always run positive articles for Obama and ALways run negative articles about the Clintons, but the Obma supporters merely add fuel to the fire of hate and division--enough.
In my 32 years as a Democrat, I will for the first time ever vote for a Republican--McCain.
And yes, I live in a swing state.
-Anonymous Democrat for Hillary Clinton.
Posted by: Anonymous Democrat | Feb 11, 2008 8:57:51 PM
Can't you just feel the love in this room? Obama states a fact that we all know: That Bill Clinton was a brilliant President who Presided over a disasterous time for the Democratic party, whose wife's ham-handed handling of healthcare was one of several issues that helped an historic swing to the Republican side of the isle; that he fought and swapped pork for NAFTA, but figured he'd fix the flawed Welfare Reform bill after he signed it, who rented out the Lincioln bedroom, etc All that. We were there. But now we want his wife, so we want that forgotten. All Obama is saying is the Republicans haven't forgotten, nor will independants.
Posted by: Constantone | Feb 11, 2008 8:28:39 PM
This series of comments like all comments on other news stories contains far too many vitrolic and hateful diatribes. It would seem to me that our country would be better served by offering factual information or informed opinion. I am someone who voted for Senator Obama when he ran for the U.S. Senate. His campaign statements during that campaign led those of us in Illinois to believe we had a contract with him for six years to address the issues facing Illinois and the country. Unfortunately, there must have been a clause in that contract that allowed him to bow out that his supporters were unaware existed. His unwillingness to serve out the term of office he asked our support for is very disturbing. On top of this disappointment, I have been equally disturbed by his lack of forthrightness in addressing the concerns facing this nation. I do not find it an acceptable response to a question in a debate that people can look up his position on the web site. He should be able to give a specific response to the question so we can all judge his answer. I did not vote for Mr. Obama in the Illinois primary and supported Mrs. Clinton based on her willingness to address our country's problems with plans filled with specifics and guiding by basic democratic priniciples. In contradiction to Mr. Obama's claims that all Clinton supporters would vote for him this fall, I and many of my friends would prefer to sit out the election.
Posted by: woman from Illinois | Feb 11, 2008 8:16:16 PM
I laughed when I read that article title! Obama is the one who has divided the Democratic Party. Who had the most support at first? Hillary was soooo way ahead, then here comes Obama, playing the race card, and starts splitting the Party into sides. Bill Clinton was right-----Obama's run IS a fairy tale-----he thinks he can come in and "sweep the country off of it's feet" and "Save it" and take it back to his castle and everything will be ok. That's not reality, and it takes hard work and a plan to solve our country's problems. Hillary is that hard worker and HAS those plans, in detail. Don't let Obama fool you, people--he has copied off of Hillary's plans for the country from the minute he entered the race....she had her well-thought out plans and how to implement them before the race even started. Get real.
Posted by: Illinois for Hillary | Feb 11, 2008 7:56:30 PM
The assertion that Democrats when they unite rather than divide is correct--and has been for 200 years going back to Jefferson's administration. The core that TJ put together was:
immigrants, trade workers, and farmers
There are no losses for the Democratic party when they have the support of those groups on their side--if you prefer to substitute 'minorities' in for immigrants and 'blue collar' for trade workers--it remains the same.
Clinton DOES divide. Comments on political boards show that--but the comments against Obama seem to all come from Clinton supporters. Very few come from others--essentially confirming that prophecy.
I like Obama--but think he is weak in certain areas. I'd like to see him ask Richardson to be his vice-president. Richardson was the most qualified candidate with his experience. He has integrity, and he would shore up Obama's 'weakness' with the Latin community in the southwest.
Posted by: jim835 | Feb 11, 2008 7:45:11 PM
Fools, the democratic party was never this divided until Obama entered the picture.
And to whomever said Europeans prefer him, why so they can watch him lead our country into 3rd world status, so they can watch the super power they dispise crumble.
Posted by: Disgusted | Feb 11, 2008 7:14:35 PM
Susan Haskell: Obama's and Edward's names were also on the Florida ballot. And yet Clinton was able to defeat them by a large percentage.
Posted by: Democrat | Feb 11, 2008 6:57:26 PM
Geevill and Dan
The old political machine dems decided the rules; Florida and Michigan knew what they were and made a rational choice to lose their votes. HRC knew this and still went to Florida and gave what sure sounded like a victory speech when there was no victory.
Also, how can you say that voters voted intelligently for HRC when hers was the only name on the ballot? The others had the moral decency to remove theirs to abide by the rules. What is it you don’t get about her trying to confound the rules? Is this not what got her in trouble in Travelgate, Filegate, Troopergate, Whitewater, Cattle Futures, Ponzi schemer Norman Hsu, Zoë Baird.
Haven’t we had enough of her not playing by the rules and then summoning Bill to do her dirty work, whining or crying or using the media victim card when things don’t go her way? I was going to vote for her but I am just plain tired of the drama. Obama is just doing his job and doing it so much better than her.
Posted by: susan Haskell | Feb 11, 2008 6:53:46 PM
Yes, let us all give Barry slack or is it Obama slack for he is education. As for the people treating blacks with so little respect, give me a break. This isn't about prejudice of skin color it is a FACT that we are at war (whether you agree with war, we are there) with a muslim race of people and Baracka Hussein Obama is blood linked so wake up entire world. Revolutionary war should have buried this hatchett. You all forget to easy that the first slaves were traded to America by the Spaniards and that white, indian, black, latino, all people all race died in that Revolutionary war to get past this. Fought beside eachother to preserve this freedom. What revolution is Barack aka Barry lookin toward? How dare he tell young ones this is like the Remember the Titans, this is 2008, not 1949. Do these kids need to think the world hasn't evolved? What in the world is the matter with folks? Shame on this analogy. Lord have mercy!
Posted by: callenfallen | Feb 11, 2008 6:45:36 PM
Angela, would you mind citing the source for your information on the cut in troop levels in Afghanistan? The Defense Department shows American troop levels between 24,000 and 26,500 during 2007. And as of Jan 25, 2008 there were 28,000 troops. They are projecting an increase to 31,200 for March-April in anticipation of increased Taliban and al Qaeda activity.
Part of the contradiction in numbers may be the fact that during 2007 about 14,000 American troops were (and still are) part of the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force. The other 10,000-12,500 American troops operate independently.
Posted by: James Danley | Feb 11, 2008 6:39:40 PM
A few questions to those who blindly follow Hillary: What are these massive accomplishments in the domestic and international arena that she speaks of? How can she be ready to deal with the mess of the W administration of day 1 when she voted to authorize the biggest mistake of this young century? How will she clean up Washington ethics when she accepts more lobbyist money than the Republicans?
The facts simply are this: Senator Clinton and President Clinton are divisive figures...people love them or hate them. Compound this with the perception that none of President Bill Clinton's undeniable charisma seems to be present in his wife. She comes across as cold, calculating, disingenuous, manipulative, and so on.
So far she has managed to bungle a campaign that started off with all stars aligned to crown her nominee. And lets not forget she chose to run the campaign of inevitability. Senator Clinton now is the "me too" candidate. If Senator Obama raises money, she does too. If Sen. Obama draws young people, she does too. She has even taken to lifting themes from his speeches, which is just sad.
Finally, and most tragic is the fact that the first serious female candidate for the highest office has only gotten this far on the coat tails of her husband. Gloria Steinem and Barbara Streisand should be ashamed.
Posted by: Damon Harris | Feb 11, 2008 6:35:50 PM
Truth is bitter so its not surprising that some people hate it. A year ago few people knows about Obama and now that he is making progress some people will not give him credit for the job well done. Hillary agreed with the DNC not to count the Florida and Michigan delegates because she believed that she as been anointed by God to be the democrats nominee and now everything id not going well she is trying to play back door politic. Is it true or false that democrats lost heavily in the senate, house and states during Clinton regime? GOD AS FINALLY LISTEN TO THE PARYER OF HIS PEOPLE. BEHOLD A LEADER IS BORN.
Posted by: outsider | Feb 11, 2008 6:23:56 PM
There are many things that Obama and Clinton have in common, and a few where they differ (in my opinion, mostly in the categories of diplomacy, rhetorical skill, and personal appeal). However, if we must stretch so far for differences that we paint Senator Clinton as an emotional (read manipulative) campaigner, let's just have a look at her voting record and look at Senator Obama's as well:
"Senator Clinton, who has served only one full term (6yrs.), and another year campaigning, has managed to author and pass into law, (20) twenty pieces of legislation in her first six years.
These bills can be found on the website of the Library of Congress (www.thomas.loc.gov), but to save you trouble, I’ll post them here for you.
1. Establish the Kate Mullany National Historic Site.
2. Support the goals and ideals of Better Hearing and Speech Month.
3. Recognize the Ellis Island Medal of Hon
4. Name courthouse after Thurgood Marshall.
5. Name courthouse after James L. Watson.
6. Name post office after Jonn A. O’Shea.
7. Designate Aug. 7, 2003, as National Purple Heart Recognition Day.
8. Support the goals and ideals of National Purple Heart Recognition Day.
9. Honor the life and legacy of Alexander Hamilton on the bicentennial of his death.
10. Congratulate the Syracuse Univ. Orange Men’s Lacrosse Team on winning the championship.
11. Congratulate the Le Moyne College Dolphins Men’s Lacrosse Team on winning the championship.
12. Establish the 225th Anniversary of the American Revolution Commemorative Program.
13. Name post office after Sergeant Riayan A. Tejeda.
14. Honor Shirley Chisholm for her service to the nation and express condolences on her death.
15. Honor John J. Downing, Brian Fahey, and Harry Ford, firefighters who lost their lives on duty.
Only five of Clinton’s bills are more substantive:
16. Extend period of unemployment assistance to victims of 9/11.
17. Pay for city projects in response to 9/11
18. Assist landmine victims in other countries.
19. Assist family caregivers in accessing affordable respite care.
20. Designate part of the National Forest System in Puerto Rico as protected in the wilderness preservation system.
There you have it–the facts straight from the Senate Record.
Now, I would post those of Obama’s, but the list is too substantive, so I’ll mainly categorize.
During the first (8) eight years of his elected service he sponsored over 820 bills. He introduced:
233 regarding healthcare reform,
125 on poverty and public assistance,
112 crime fighting bills,
97 economic bills,
60 human rights and anti-discrimination bills,
21 ethics reform bills,
15 gun control,
6 veterans affairs and many others.
His first year in the U.S. Senate, he authored 152 bills and co-sponsored another 427. These inculded:
**the Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006 (became law),
**The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act, (became law),
**The Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act, passed the Senate,
**The 2007 Government Ethics Bill, (became law),
**The Protection Against Excessive Executive Compensation Bill, (In committee), and many more."
Posted by: AnaLu | Feb 11, 2008 6:12:56 PM
Republicans Stopped USA from getting al Qaida when we had al Qaida on the Run in Afghanistan. Republicans Picked up stakes and Moved onto Iraq, Against the Advice of American Intelligence. Republicans, Against the Advice of the Pentagon War Experts, Cut Men, Cut Ammunition, Cut Equipment, Cut Tools and Cut people needed for the rebuild afterward, and Cut the monies needed to get the job done right. Republicans Cut it All by More than 50%, It Was Closer Cut of 75%! Then Against Advice of Pentagon War Experts and American Intelligence, Republicans put Private American Enterprise HALLABURTON - a Foreign Oil Interest Corporation - in Charge with all Its' Subsidiaries who answer to No One for crimes committed against Their Own American Female Civilian Office Employees who Find themselves Helpless in the Part of the World where Women have no Rights to begin with and Women Working is Frowned Upon. Thus Republicans have created an Endless Contradictory or a Continued Paradox of Sequence of Events that have escalated to Dangerous Proportions of Counter Productive Measures and is Continually Giving a Black Eye to the United States of America's Reputation.
Posted by: Angela | Feb 11, 2008 5:56:42 PM
bush gave us a lot of change...like jack welch said the other day...IRAQ WAR spending was CHIMP CHANGE...that raygun trickle down theory got you thirsty yet?????
Posted by: daddyblue | Feb 11, 2008 5:53:22 PM
I'm not sure who she's offending more (see below), voters who are trying to look beyond race or caucus goers who are coming out for the first time to be active in the party...either way she's disrespecting huge blocks of November voters...huge blocks of Democrats...huge blocks of people who are highly energized. How could I as a person who desparately wants race not to matter in an election and who has only recently become an "activist" possibly support her in the Fall?
From CNN today:
WHITE MARSH, Maryland (CNN) — Hillary Clinton on Monday explained away Barack Obama's clean sweep of the weekend's caucuses and primaries as a product of a caucus system that favors "activists" and, in the case of the Louisiana primary, an energized African-American community.
She told reporters who had gathered to watch her tour a General Motors plant here that "everybody knew, you all knew, what the likely outcome of these recent contests were."
"These are caucus states by and large, or in the case of Louisiana, you know, a very strong and very proud African-American electorate, which I totally respect and understand."
Clinton has publicly dismissed the caucus voting system since before Super Tuesday, seeking to lower expectations heading into a series of contests that played to Obama's advantage. His campaign features what many consider to be a stronger and more dedicated grassroots organization than Clinton's.
Noting that "my husband never did well in caucus states either," Clinton argued that caucuses are "primarily dominated by activists" and that "they don't represent the electorate, we know that."
Posted by: OffendedOnBothCounts | Feb 11, 2008 5:33:59 PM
Wow I really wish I'd done the math in my home state and changed to Democrat so I couldve voted against the "clinton dynasty".. Then, maybe back to Republican.. Maybe.
So sick of Clintons, it aint even funny. Theyre nothing but a bunch of haters, send them back to Arkansas!
Can you imagine, Hillary steals the nomination with super delegates; blacks come out in droves to vote for McCain? WOW.
Posted by: jayzintucson | Feb 11, 2008 5:22:47 PM
Women are ready to lead this country, there's no doubt about that. Just not Hillary Clinton! While not all of her own doing, she is the most divisive figure in today's political landscape. She will unite the Repubs like no other. Please girls, don't let the Republicans squeak by with another victory once again.
Posted by: Jenny | Feb 11, 2008 5:15:48 PM
Obama has already stood up to the Hillary attack machine. Hillary is a fraud. Her "experience" as a first lady doesn't count. Her involvement in her husband's administration ended when her healthcare plan when down in flames. And if she was really so naive as to have allowed Bush to mislead her on the Iraq vote, then she really is too stupid to lead the country.
Posted by: Michelle | Feb 11, 2008 5:12:08 PM
We need a man as president. How can a woman travel to the oil producing countries in the Far East and deal with those big Islamic countries where women are still shielded behind veils and are considered non-entities? I have nothing against women as I am one, but I feel at this time of the world only a man will be able to arbitrate and work with those countries where women are not valued.
Posted by: Ella | Feb 11, 2008 5:12:00 PM
When the Republicans are done trashing Obama, he will be as divisive and scary as Farrakhan. Don't be bullied into voting for Obama, just because the Republican attack machine (RAM) has successfully denigrated the Clinton name. They will do the same to Obama. Stand up and support the candidate that knows how to deal with RAM - Senator Clinton. She has resisted and overcome their attacks. Behind the glossy charisma, even Obama will succumb to defamation by RAM. Do we really want another naive person in the White House? After Bush II, haven't we had enough of taking chances? Obama has no NATIONAL experience. Obama has never had to face or make national decisions (two years is nothing). He wasn't even in the US Senate when the vote came up to force Iraq to accept investigators into their country (the vote was NOT to athorize war).
Posted by: Observant | Feb 11, 2008 5:01:06 PM
As one of the 47 percent of the people in this country who will never vote for Hillary Clinton, I just don't understand why she even brings up her "35 years experience." It's the biggest pink elephant in the room. What has she actually done in her 35 years? A failed healthcare plan and a vote for the Iraq war? While I'm not sold on Obama, back in 2002, he at least had the foresight to predict in an interview that conflict between the Sunnis and Shiites could lead the Iraq adventure to disaster. And he's now proposing a healthcare plan that doesn't rely on mandates -- an asinine Hillary proposal that will simply never pass in Congress. Hillary will unite the Republican party. I, for one, will vote for McCain before I vote Hillary. I think the country is ready for a women president, and most people WANT to vote for a women president. Just not this one.
Posted by: M | Feb 11, 2008 5:01:00 PM
Tom, you wrote: "Hillary is no Republican...she's a Marxist."
Back in May, Sen. Clinton said that what the Bush administration touts as an "ownership society" really is an "on your own" society that has widened the gap between rich and poor. She also said: "It's time for a new beginning, for an end to government of the few, by the few and for the few, time to reject the idea of an "on your own" society and to replace it with shared responsibility for shared prosperity. I prefer a "we're all in it together" society."
CONNECT THE DOTS! First she said that an "ownership society" is really an "on your own" society. Then she says it's time to reject an "on your own" society. Thus she says we should reject an "ownership society" and "replace it with shared responsibility for shared prosperity."
That IS Marxist, if not Communistic!
Posted by: James Danley | Feb 11, 2008 4:55:01 PM
Obama needs to tell the truth they were same a Oprah she was bad for us also she left the hsipanics behind until this year. It tok them this many year to acknowledge a few of us. and were American here not immigrants. I still think Obama is a Muslim were going to be all screwed left and right.
Posted by: Gloria | Feb 11, 2008 4:49:56 PM
I live abroad and it is so sad that some people in America are still treating their fellow black americans with such disrespect. Your blacks have helped to fight your wars and contributed to the growth of the powerful America. They also helped to elect white presidents and there was never an issue about that. This is the first time that a black person stands a real chance to be the next american president. There won't be another for perhaps another 100 years who demonstrates such excellent qualities. Experience is not important here. How many presidents had that when they first became president? Obama is highly educated and has everything for this job. America has aways been the front runner with big ideas. Now go on and vote for the first black American president. Give him a chance. You lot should elect someone who can make peace for America abroad. The Clinton's have already left a bad taste. You have not many friends left in Europe and the rest of the world. Most people abroad would prefer Obama as the next president for America.
Posted by: Yvonne | Feb 11, 2008 4:42:29 PM
Why don't everybody just chill out, and wait for the primary election to take its course,and may the best man, or woman win... HATERS WILL NEVER WIN.
Posted by: Maurice Wadlington | Feb 11, 2008 4:40:39 PM
If Hillary is so great then answer me this.
Hillary stated that nationalhealthcare is a right. Why isn't she providing healthcare to her own workers if it is such a right? Why won't she answer the question about whether she provides healthcare to her campaign workers?
Posted by: IAD | Feb 11, 2008 4:37:28 PM
It is interesting to see the comments from both sides. I observed a few ignorant comments and may be they lend themselves to racism. There are a few facts about these two individuals from the DP. I think let's not discount Obama's education and experience. Remember he came out of an IV league school with distinction and he has demonstrated his intelligence. None of the candidates have any better than his background. Above all, Obama has common sense. He fought for an idea when it was not popular. Give the guy a break. There are enough of us to see what Obama stands for. Sometimes the best way to inform one is to hear the candidate before you judge him. Let the truth be hold; for the starter's Obama's life begins with clean chapter. I have not witnessed a scandalous life both in private and political life. We need someone who can manage his family or own affair and who has a fair judgment with conservative values; “Family, duty and honor”. You don't have to be a gun owner, Sunday preacher, pro-life, pro-death penalty to be a conservative. What an irony. Give the guy a slack. At least he is a decent American!
Posted by: ed | Feb 11, 2008 4:32:22 PM
It's a common misconception that Obama "lacks experience." But if you do your homework, you'll find out the truth: Obama has been an elected official for 12 years, vs. Mrs. Clinton's 8 years. .
In his first 8 years in office, Senator Obama introduced or sponsored 233 health care and public health bills. You can find a summary of his stellar record in The New York Times, which often favors the Clintons.
As a woman, I find it offensive that Mrs. Clinton is running for office, using her husband as a crutch. She may cry that she is running this campaign "on her own," but what kind of a woman either a) stands for her husband lying about her opponent? or b) actively seeks his help, since she can't stand on her own?
Posted by: Linda Tagliaferro | Feb 11, 2008 4:01:29 PM
Hillary and Bill Clinton both have been through the fire and tested. The Republican Character Assassinating Squad went after them with vengeance for eight years and could not defeat them. That is certainly a true testimony of pure strength beyond the call of duty. After the Squad failed for eight years, it extremely hard for me to believe that they would attempt to defeat them again. Now, the Squad will certainly go after Barack Obama with vengeance. I believe everyone of us have sin and have erred many of time. In fact, I suggest doing what I do. Ask God for mercy on a daily basis. So believe me, Obama will not be spared. Even if he became President, he would still have a fierce battle with the conservative extremist to pass his agenda. No, Obama will not be spared. Yes I feel Obama and Edwards would make excellent Presidents. But I believe Hillary would make a much better President. She has the strength, she has excellent policies, she is extremely intelligent and caring. She is also charismatic which enables her to communicate extremely well with world leaders. It appears to me, that world leaders have a lot of respect for her. I certainly do not see any charismatic qualities in either Bush or John McCain. There is an added bonus, Bill Clinton is also charismatic and well respected around the world. He could be extremely successful in healing our world relationships, and by increasing our allies, which is desperately needed to win the war on terrorism. Now, talking about change and taking this country in a new direction. Well, change has already started. Hillary and many other democrats and some republicans have been working across party lines to find common ground. They have presented bipartisan bills and have pass many of them. There is one thing that I do not like about Obama. He constantly talks about Hilary vote on the Iraq war. At that time the information about Iraq was wrong and incomplete. And I think he is totally wrong to continuously bring it up. Besides that, that is in the past. What does that have to do with now, the future, change, and taking this country in a new direction. I just think that we the American People better take this election very seriously. Think hard and long, then vote. The world including US national security is at stake.
Posted by: Bob Vargas | Feb 11, 2008 3:49:44 PM
Since none of you guys are out volunteering for either the Hillary or Obama campaigns today, maybe you could go and help out some of those TORNADO victims with this free time you've got on your hands, rather than being here on the internet spreading this HATE. The "media" has that covered already!
Posted by: Love&Happiness | Feb 11, 2008 3:47:19 PM
Let's call a spade a spade. Three words about this article... Truth; pure and simple.
Posted by: vee | Feb 11, 2008 3:16:01 PM
Obamas camp continues to "paint" Hillary supporters as "simpletons and racists" as they described their Obama supporters as "higher-income", higher-educated, better-informed" ... Sounds more like a "divise" form of politics than one of "I love you back."
Obama is injecting the division.
This campaign season is starting to remind me of a book titled, "The Pimp & Prostitute" method of leadership.
Ironically, It appears that in the end, Euro-American males may be the deciding factor when the votes are counted in the general election.
Love you Back... Barack.
Posted by: Randy | Feb 11, 2008 3:10:16 PM
Republicans, especially, Bush and Co, have been blamed for fear mongering. What is Obama doing? Don't vote for Hillary - she is a divider; it's time to turn the page on the divisive politics of the past. Obama not only divided but polarized Democratic party along racial lines to a point of no return. Clintons, especially President Clinton, worked hard to improve the lot of the very same people who now turned against them just because of one of their own is in the contest. They campaigned for Obama and helped him to get elected as Senator. Where is the gratitude? How could any one trust such an opportunist? Obama will say anything and do anything to suit his whim and fancy. Hillary went to New York and won the Senate seat not by fear mongering but by uniting Democrats and Republicans, the young and the old, the rich and the poor, the elite and the ordinary around what she would do for the State of New York. Obama won his Senate seat not by uniting but being at the right place at the right time when the Illinois Republican party was in a total disarray and shambles. "Don't vote for Hillary, she voted to authorize the war". Obama was not even a U.S. Senator at that time. If he were to be a U.S.Senator, he might not have showed up to be counted so that he would have cover to make a claim that he never voted to authorize the war. "Don't vote for Hillary. She voted for Iran resolution and I did not. McCain would not be able to use it against me." A deliberate misrepresentation. Obama did not even show up to vote on such an important resolution. Obama now claims that he did not give his consent for the Iran vote while Hillary did. Isn't Hillary right when she says that he never takes personal responsibility for any of his actions or statements? What a blatant lie and so much for his claim that he tells the truth all the time. Let us keep one thing in mind. The election is not for the Preacher of the United States of America. If the election is for the Preacher of the United States of America, Obama is the guy. For the President of the United States of America, there is no on