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And It Continues
March 05, 2008 7:40 AM
Big wins in Ohio and Texas last night for Sen. Hillary Clinton -- but she still lags behind Sen. Barack Obama's delegate count, and it remains unclear who "won" Texas once the caucus results are added to Clinton's primary win.
(In the southwest Houston precinct I visited last night, Clinton won the primary but lost the caucus.)
In talking points circulated late last night, the Clinton campaign acknowledges that it can never overtake Obama with pledged delegates, and asserts that it intends to overtake him with the support of superdelegates.
"We plan on gaining pledged delegates and closing the Obama camp’s lead by the end of the nominating process," the Clinton memo says. "When it comes to pledged delegates, we’ll be competitive."
As you know, it is perfectly within Democratic party rules for superdelegates to vote however they want (indeed, pledged delegates can vote however they want, too).
But the notion that superdelegates - party insiders and elected officials - would assure a nomination for a candidate who is not the choice of the majority of pledged delegates makes many Democratic officials quite nervous.
Confusing matters further are questions about who wins the overall popular vote, who wins the overall popular vote of Democratic voters (as opposed to independents and Republicans who voted in open Democratic primaries) and the Michigan and Florida contests.
We still don't know right now who won more delegates in Texas last night.
Yowza.
- jpt
March 5, 2008 | Permalink | Share | User Comments (91)
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48 states I agree with you.Howard Dean is a weak fool.The republicans followed the same rules as the dems in Florida except for the major fact they took half the delegates from them and let the voters vote count to keep the party whole.Floridas vote should count and Michigan revote(ANYONE THINK ITS REALLY FOOLISH FOR A CANDIDATE TO REMOVE THIER NAME OR WHAT,THERE WERE CLINTON,BIDEN DODD RICHARDSON ON THE BALLOT).Its the only fair compromise.
Posted by: girlinvt | Mar 5, 2008 12:44:00 PM
One the Canadian goverment did not clear Obama it said it meaning the Canadian gov. did not have anything to do with contacting any candidates.Canada also stated that basiclly they wanted to be left out of it.Sounds like your spinning it to your wants to me.
Posted by: girlinvt | Mar 5, 2008 12:31:15 PM
The media should be very proud of itself. It began blacking out Mr. Obama's speeches and ran story after story - and article after article - on Mrs. Clinton for the 3-4 day period before Tuesday's elections.
The media didn't give much press to the statements made by the Canadian government on Mr. Obama's behalf regarding the NAFTA issue.
Media members also helped to spread the 'Muslim' rumor.
It is the American media - at it's best - proving once again that it is still corrupt, beholden to old business and political ties and pressures - and is still very much interested in selling the American people - not only a war - but an election, as well. Zoogby says that 70% of US citizens don't trust the media. I wonder why?
Mrs. Clinton scared the non-college educated and older voters of Ohio - and that was OK with the media. No or minimal media analysis of where that type of commercial had been used in the past - or why it works against certain types or classes of people.
The Canadian government came out - in a rare move - and defended Mr. Obama aginast Mrs. Clinton's charges about the NAFTA issue. No media blitz to correct the record there - either.
No media blitz about Al-Qa'ida supporters rejecting the idea that Mr. Obama is a Muslim.
No or minimal media attention to anything - that would have supported Mr. Obama and yet Mrs. Clinton - was everywhere. How did that happen?
Mr. Obama was kind in his statements about the media 'buying' Mrs. Clinton's 'lack of media support' line. But, his statements also indicate that he knows that the bias against him in the media exists precisely because the media was astonished at Mr. Obama's ability to capture audience's attention. I'm sure - he'll come up with something - to counter the media's stance and tactics.
But, in the meantime, readers and television viewers should keep count of the number of pro-Obama stories and pro-Clinton stories that appear every day and on the networks and websites that present them. Watch the 'trend' and see if our mainstream media outlets - level the field - or are sitting squarely - in one corner. The media sold us a war in Iraq - and are now trying to sell us - an election, too.
Mr. Obama now has a challenge - and that is very good because we'll get to see how he responds. As Mrs. Clinton continues to play her usual dirty politics - Mr. Obama will hopefully establish his own new game against her.
Hang in, Mr. Obama, and don't take advantage of the old and non-college educated people in the US. 51-48% in Texas is impressive and losing some contests, learning from it, and coming back - is all part of the game.
And thanks to Mr. Gates - for helping to establish the internet. Legions of Americans are using it to end their dependency on mainstream media outlets - and to find out what is really going on in America and the world - and in - this campaign.
The American mainstream media - needs to be voted out of office - along with Mr. Bush.
Posted by: redcat | Mar 5, 2008 11:52:43 AM
when are all of you obama people going to wake up.you talk nonsense about republicans voting for hillary look at the exit polls for ohio and texas.registered dems went for her big time in both states so grow up ,if was a general election as of today she would have 263 electoral college votes to his 191 so big states do count,grow up especially if you think by calling us names and hillary that we would back him in november it aint going to happen,though a hillary/obama ticket i would support and that if he learns as he should would give us the white house for 16 years.he needs more experiance and to open up about rezko ,you know 11 apt complexes in his district some without heat in one case for 34 days in jan/feb plese explain to me how he did not know about the tennants mistreatement.if its lack of oversite then he definately needs to sit second fiddle for 8 years.go hillary
Posted by: don tufts | Mar 5, 2008 11:49:10 AM
Keep dreaming Holmes,
you have a 72 year old man who is out of touch with the young and the middle class
keep dreaming republicans your nominee is a general with no clue about economics or what the middle class wants...
Posted by: keep dreaming | Mar 5, 2008 11:23:12 AM
I do detect a sense of panic when I see all the democratic lemmings suggesting that an Obama Clinton pair should come from the convention. During the next few weeks, there will be so much animosity that that possibility seems highly unlikely. Besides, the lemmings don't seem to care much about which candidate leads the ticket. Issues, personalities and shady backgrounds don't seem to matter as the desperation to win at any cost gains momentum.
In the end however, it will be the vast middle who decides the next president. Marrying Obama and Clinton will simply multiply the weaknesses of both and double their negatives.
Happy days for the Republicans as the democrats self-destruct.
Posted by: Surelock Homes | Mar 5, 2008 11:20:43 AM
It was the republicans who decided on the dates for Florida and Michigan this was not something the democrats created.
I just think the incompetent chicken Howard Dean should have stepped in early and fixed this, but no instead this has turned into a circus show, which is going to lead to Republicans claiming victory in Michigan and Florida. To count out 2 states because of Republicans wrong doing is unbelievable.
The DNC has a weak leader and he should now step in and fix it. To count out 2 states in the convention will cost us the election.
Posted by: 48 states? | Mar 5, 2008 11:07:58 AM
To sit here and talk about virtues and swift boating and being angry about talking heads in the media etc. is going to lead us nowhere, save it for a philosophy class.
There are people right now who can't put food on the table, the rising gas prices, job outsourcing and not to mention the cost of the war.
Instead of sitting and pondering the what could/would/should be FEAR etc join the DNC and declare a joint ticket, so we can help USA get back to being the # 1 country in the world.
Posted by: BACALOVE | Mar 5, 2008 11:04:08 AM
If Franklin Delano Roosevelt, John Kennedy, and Adlai Stevenson were nominees chosen by so-called superdelegates of the Democrat Party, what does that say about superdelegates stepping in when no nominee has the required number of delegates? Based upon the presidencies of Roosevelt and Kennedy, they appear to be wise.
Popular vote does not always rule the day. Skewed caucuses are not necessarily a good way to reveal the real will of the citizens. The Electoral College does not really decide the will of the majority f the voters. What do we do with the system? Start with the Democrat Party. Eliminate the caucuses for the National Party, they are a joke. Find some other way to punish states on moving their primary dates. Taking away the citizens' votes does not appear the right way to build a party.
Try some other way of voting, such as giving everyone a form to send in as you would your income tax form. Oh my gosh, that is heresy! The conservatives would say, "That's more big government!"
Posted by: georgia | Mar 5, 2008 11:01:42 AM
'THE TICKET'
1) Hillary won core democratic states
2) Obama won red/blue states
3) Obama connects with the young college
crowds and independents
4) Hillary has the older voters women
and male.
5) Both have the core Latino/African
American voters.
6) Together they make a CONVINCING PAIR that could OUT DEBATE/OUTSHINE & OUT SPEND the Republicans and not to mention bring the masses to vote for them.
7) WE CAN BRING CHANGE TO THE WHITE HOUSE WITH THIS TICKET TOGETHER! EITHER ONE ALONE WILL DISAPPEAR IN THE FALL!
Posted by: wake up | Mar 5, 2008 10:59:55 AM
This is how we can solidify the democrats by getting the you-tube generation (Obama) with the baby bomers(Hillary) coming together and finish the race with a win in the fall.
Posted by: generation gaps | Mar 5, 2008 10:52:48 AM
I do not buy Hillary's notion when she say: No any candidate has ever won the Presidency without Ohio. She has just won partially Ohio because the other part has voted for Obama. It is not certain the other part are keen to vote for her in Ohio incase she is the nominee.
Posted by: Peace | Mar 5, 2008 10:43:55 AM
If Obama gets the nod, then he will not win FL or Michigan because not being counted in the convention will lead to people giving Mccain the votes. Are we going to the convention with 48 states...that does not make sense
So UNITE and kick butt in the fall!!!
Posted by: FL and Michigan | Mar 5, 2008 10:37:19 AM
The biggest fear from the RNC right now is the monster ticket Hillary and Obama!
There is no way with this ticket we can lose. The old crumbled RNC will fall flat in November and the Democrats will once again occupy the White House.
Go Democrats unite now, and begin preparing the 527 machine against their attack machine
Posted by: The Biggest Fear | Mar 5, 2008 10:35:14 AM
Oh, yes,
The Michigan and Florida delegates.
Consider the following:
CNN POLL QUESTION
Should Florida and Michigan Democrats
*Have their votes counted?...58%
*Not be counted?...25%
*Have new primaries or caucuses?...17%
And, that's why Obama supporters are strangely silent this morning, or calling for a Clinton/Obama or Obama/Clinton ticket.
The possibility of a brokered convention combined with Senator Clinton's wins has shifted the momentum.
Posted by: ken | Mar 5, 2008 10:32:51 AM
Tony, you wrote: "When will we unite? Anybody see that day coming?"
I don't know if you are referring to the Democratic Party or the American people. If the former, I have no doubt that should Sen. Clinton somehow win the nomination that Sen. Obama will be her running mate. That will unite the Democratic Party. If Sen. Obama wins the nomination, he will probably ask Sen. Clinton to be his running mate but she probably will not settle for second seat (she's had that all her life). If she does accept being his running mate, once again that will unite the Democratic Party. BUT if Sen. Clinton does not accept being his running mate, then Sen. Obama would likely select Gov. Bill Richardson. That, in my opinion, would probably be the strongest of the three tickets.
If you are referring to the American people, that is a totally different matter. It will be very difficult for the American people to unite. 30%-40% of the electorate strongly want socialized womb-to-tomb universal health care; wealth redistribution (robbing the wealthy to pay for giveaways to the poor and lower middle class); and raising the white flag on the War on Terror. 30%-40% of the electorate strongly want to continue with privatized medical health care; allowing the people to keep more of their own money; and defeating the terrorists wherever they are (including Iraq). The other 20%-40% are not ideologues and can be swayed based on other factors (i.e., personalities, fear, pocket book and yes even race and gender -- to name a few).
One ideology will win in the general election with the help of the non-ideologues. The question is will the non-ideologues split their vote and make for another cliffhanger? Or will THEY unite behind one candidate?
Posted by: James Danley | Mar 5, 2008 10:32:11 AM
Al said: "CHANGE we ALL need and that's not with Obama alone nor with Hillary alone.YES together will lead to HOPE we can win in the FALL"
Its time to set aside bias and hatred aside and unite the DNC, Howard Dean can't so its up to the people to help force this ticket no matter what. Obama brings, CHANGE, HOPE, YES we CAN, and Hillary brings the ACTION and SOLUTIONS. So w/o mocking this or degrading the DNC, this is a fact of life together we can ROCK the white house and tear down the republicans 2008!
Posted by: borg | Mar 5, 2008 10:15:48 AM
If the republicans think with the economy in the tank, war in Iraq, gas prices off the charts, housing crisis putting people on the streets, that they have a fighting chance to win in the fall, keep dreaming.
People are fed up with the republicans and the top issues right now is the economy, so far I have not seen the republicans improve in that front.
CHANGE we ALL need and that's not with Obama alone nor with Hillary alone.
YES together will lead to HOPE we can win in the FALL
Posted by: Al | Mar 5, 2008 10:12:17 AM
well with out hillary he can't make it either. so what's your point. He as much as her need each other. If you are a republican trying to make a point that it will never happen...keep watching because it will happen and the republicans will lose.
Posted by: word | Mar 5, 2008 10:05:49 AM
Hillary/Obama 2008
Obama/Hillary 2008
Either way it's great!
United we can win back the White House in 2008.
Posted by: Sue | Mar 5, 2008 10:05:34 AM
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