Political Punch

I wonder how many people will continue to call our occupation of Iraq a war. When does a war end? I thought a war was over when someone surrenders. I thought they pulled Sadam out of a hole and hanged him. Did that not end the war? Who are we at war with? When the Japanese and Germans surrendered and the leaders were executed we counted the war as being over. Now we did work to rebuild the aggressor countries, but that was under the auspices of humanitarian aid.

This country cannot be continue to be lead by the nose by suggestions that any suggestion that we end the war is equivalent to surrender. The war in Iraq is over. Congress may need to declare a war against Afhganistan, since wars are against other nations, not political groups. But the whole lexicon being used is wrong. This wrong lexicon leads to the wrong conclusions. We need to allow the Iraq people to retake ownership of their country, unless we want to make it the 51st state. We need to be clear that our humanitarian aid will be fully available to the financial extent approved by congress, but any military aid will be at cost, with payment due monthly. This will lead to a reduction in cost and perhaps even a reduction in violence. We can then focus our efforts on the real enemy, Al Quida and then set up the paradigm that says we will attack any Al Quida outpost with or without permission from the host country. Our focus should be Al Quida, not Iraq. Obama has this right.

Neutralised what??. She is merely showing her camelion colour again.

HRC Slogan for the Day. Irak Edition.

"Hillary! Duped not Dishonest."

In no way, shape or form has Hillary "neutralized" the war issue, contrary to your first paragraph. She still has not said unambiguously that it was a bad judgment call and the mainstream media still has yet to examine the fact that she never read the intelligence briefing on Iraq personally. Far from it "neutralizing" the issue, I just see her getting more entrenched.

LOL dierdre - it is a free country, i suppose you cant handle the heat? remember your man Obama voted almost identical to Clinton once he became a US Senator so your argument doesnt fly... Clinton and McCain's records are not similar at all but Clinton and Obama's are... Obama's campaign has been about his assertion that "good judgement" overrides his lack of experience... why doesnt he denounce all of his supporters that voted the same way Clinton did? - because he would have almost no one left... now that the real truth is coming out about him... his good judgement argument has failed... oops obamadoo happens! btw i am fair enough to give one response per day to people who cannot debate issues maturely by not launching personal attacks.. have a great day

When the Bush/Cheney axis advocated the invasion of Iraq, Cheney went on TV and opined that the US Invasion Force would be greeted as liberators.

5 years on, with 4,000 plus young men and women killed, goodness knows how many maimed, and a recession which may soon turn into a depression caused by the attempt to go to war without raising taxes to pay for it, it is time for some hard truths.

1st: There will be no US "victory" in Iraq. No army of occupation, however powerful, can succeed against the opposition of the greater part of the population who do not want the occupation to continue. Therefore the USA must leave Iraq. The sooner the better.

2nd: The deficit financing of the war has already caused a recession. Unbridled corporate greed has only made matters worse. Income tax on the very highest earners might have to return temporarily to post WW2 levels.

3rd: McCain/Clinton are both "damaged goods" just as much as is Cheney in relation to the Iraq war. Therefore, the sooner the Democrats unite behind Obama the better - a new President untainted by previous votes in favour of this war might enable the USA regain some of the credibility squandered in the region.

4th: Recovery from the war and the recession will be more painful than anyone is admitting at the moment.

Obams is deaf! He didn't hear one sermon but went to church for twenty years. I'm not a doctor but it sounds like he needs an ear job to blow out the cob webs and other dusty things!!! Calling DR Eliot!!!

What a piece of work Hillary is. She can't stand it because McCain has the right to go into Iraq. She makes an UNINFORMED vote for a war then attacks Obama when he spoke out against it.

I would prefer a president and commander-in-chief who would want to meet with his battlefield commanders before enacting any plan he makes as a civilian. She is right, Obama isn't informed yet...NOR IS SHE. Obama is smart enough to recognize America will be better served when he seeks counsel...HILLARY IS ARROGANT ENOUGH to think she doesn't need it.

I don't believe a word that comes out of her mouth or her sleeze of a husband. Their arrogance and sense of entitlement are just unbelievable.

I remember thinking that if Senator Clinton supported the war vote, as she did, she must know something from from "pillow talk" with President Clinton. (sorry for that image)

One constant nagging question I have is
What do or did they know. The WMD issue has always seemed a straw horse. If President Bush lied Senator Clinton did also, Why?

None of us are perfect we all make mistakes. We cannot expect that of Hillary or Obama....

Obama has been asked questions about his pastor and others. I believe he has been honest in answering these questions. We all know people that we don't agree with but we do not denounce them, we just denounce their views on certian issues. If you are stating that you denounce anyone that doesn't believe as you do...I am sorry it must be a lonely life.

Story 'Completely Unacceptable:' Barack Obama on His Pastor's Controversial Remarks

Look into these issues, I would like Hillary to address:

Fundraisers: Norman Hsu was one of Hillary's biggest fundraisers -- raising over $850,000 for her -- right up to the day he surrendered to California State Superior Court on a Grand Theft conviction; he had been a fugitive from justice for 15 years, since he failed to appear for sentencing after pleading no contest. His crime was raising over a million dollars from investors for a business scheme that didn't exist.

Phony Commodity Options Profit

In 1978, with no prior experience, Hillary Clinton started trading high risk commodities futures under the guidance of James Blair, a friend. Blair was also an experienced trader who was outside counsel to massive Arkansas chicken processor Tyson Foods (which had business before Bill Clinton, then the governor of Arkansas.) Hillary did very well, improbably well, even given the fact that a major bull market was going on. One possibility, hinted at by trading records from the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, is that Blair traded for her and manipulated results to put money in Hillary's pocket. For example, a trader might make a large number of trades in a single day, for themself and for clients. Some of them will do well and some will fail. Instead of allocated the trades between various clients as originally intended, a trader like Blair could reassign all of the successful trades to one client (such as Clinton) and assign the losers to himself, or another client. That way, he would effectively pay her the money without worry about laws against payoffs.

Whitewater and the Missing Billing Records

This one really gets me...

Pardons and the Riches:
At the very end of his presidential term, Bill Clinton pardoned a number of people, including financier and convicted tax evader Marc Rich. It's on Hillary's scandal page because a few months earlier, Rich's former wife Denise gave substantial donations to Hillary's senatorial campaign and the Clinton library. While any wife or husband of a politician should be free to run for office, running while the spouse is still in power creates an immediate conflict of interest, and Bill had no trouble repaying the favor to his wife's contributor.
The interesting part of this story is who else was urging Clinton to pardon Marc Rich. The request was delivered to Hillary personally by none other than Scooter Libby, who was Rich's lawyer and has since been convicted of perjury in the Bush administration's leaking of the identity of arms control spy Valerie Plame. And Rich's application was supported by Israel's then-Prime Minister Ehud Barak. The final twist is that Rich was a suspected middleman in smuggling of Iraqi oil despite the trade embargo. His pardon required him to pay a $100 MILLION FINE before he could return to the U.S. That should give conspiracy folks something to chew on.

Serious question:

Does anyone have a historical example where setting a date for withdrawal would be detrimental? Im interested in real-world examples and not speculation.

As her record indicates, Hillary Clinton’s position on Iraq differs very little from that of President Bush. For her to receive the nomination for president would in effect be an endorsement by the Democratic Party of the Iraq war.

In 2004, the Democrats selected a nominee who also voted to authorize the invasion of Iraq, falsely claimed that Iraq still had WMDs, and – at that time – insisted on maintaining U.S. troops in that country. As a result, Senator John Kerry failed to mobilize the party’s anti-war base and went down to defeat. What timid concerns Kerry did raise about President Bush’s handling of the Iraq war during the campaign were used by the Bush campaign to focus attention away from the war itself and highlight the Democratic nominee’s changing positions. Had the Democrats instead nominated someone who had opposed the war from the beginning, the debate that fall would have been not about Senator Kerry’s supposed flip-flopping but the tragic decision to illegally invade a country on the far side of the world that was no threat to us and the squandering of American lives and tax dollars that have resulted.

If the Democrats select another war supporter as their nominee in 2008, the result may well be the same as 2004. Large numbers of people will refuse to vote for the Democratic nominee as part of a principled stance against voting for someone who authorized and subsequently supported the Iraq war. And Republicans will highlight the Democratic nominee’s shifting positions on Iraq as evidence that their opponent is simply an opportunistic politician rather than the kind of decisive leader the country needs.

Obama voice his opinion about the war.
Stating he was against it.

He pointed fingers, blamed McCain, Clinton and Bush for the war.

He Failed to say, He was not a senator at the time, that 77 senators voted for the war.

He failed to say since he became a US Senator he voted for funding to continue the war.

He told everyone the cost of the war, was causing all their problems and blamed some more. Always others not himself.

He started out with ending the war and bringing our boys and girls home. He has added and changed that so many times. par for the course of obama

He has never shown can care or concern of any of the boys and girls in the service, or supported them, their families in the war.

Mr Obama's major concern about the war, is to feed Americans his rehtoric and use the war to blame people and the American economy on..... To gain votes.

Mr Obama has started many things in motion..... Which all are destorying this country.

He said he wanted to unite and has caused major divisions.

He said he wanted to end the war, then talk of sending our boys and girls some where else.

He told every one they had problems financially and the war was making it worse, they stopped spending.

He told business and industry, he would stop trade pacts, rasise min wage, and make sure everyone would have affordable health car. He would remove their tax breaks and raise the min wage.
They started preparing.

He stole the dreams of our youth. Told them "Do not go into corporate America, take jobs as nurses, and teachers, that is what we need." When they have their hearts set on going studying hard to be Doctors, lawyers, Senators.

He said he wanted to Unite, then he turns around and divides and tears down.

He tells the people government is do bad
He wants to change it. He does not say into what, how when, and what it takes.
He is government and votes present on most voting, does not stand up for issues and for the American people now.
Does he just want the power? Does he want to change it into facism or socialism as his platform reeks of.

He Knew Rev Wrights out look, beliefs, radical ideas before he even announced his candidacy. That is why he did not have him speak at his announcement.
(but he kept him on a African American religious committee. Is there a White American Religious committee?

he has lied about his friends over and over again. He is confused on who he does know and whom he doesn't know or is he.

He has spoken out putting down, belittling blaming, his government saying they are corrupt. From the office of president down to every congressman, to the people of this country and for the world to see.

He is going to testify for a crook who stole money, was involved in political corruption. His friend, Is this pay back for all the favors done? Is this the kick-back his friend gets.

He has lied, blamed, pointed fingers,
mislead, flip-flopped, belittled etc, etc.

Then he throughs in poor me, the media is causing all my problems. There is goes blaming someone else.

He has done this all on his own. The whinnying and wanting sympathy votes.

He will continue to use his plan, on demanding others to expose themselves, On smearing others, trying to make them look bad, to take the eyes and world looking off him. That is all he knows how to do.

Mr Obama, I love America and its freedoms. I have been proud of my country my entire life. My Only Allegiance is to The United States Of America.

Wake up America, Take the wool from your eyes. Don't be scammed anymore.

U.S. troops could remain there for 50 or 100 years, "as long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed, it's fine with me, and I hope it would be fine with you, if we maintain a presence in a very volatile part of the world where al-Qaeda is training, recruiting, equipping and motivating people every single day." (McCain)

When in the history of military forces are not injured,harmed,wounded or killed in occupied countries. Please! Do not show your naivete.
If you read more on B.O. position on the Iraq war,
you'll know he was too busy in pushing bad legislation and did not voice a statement against the war during the debates until it proved to be convenient to oppose it when it became popular to do so.
Asking for extended time to look for WMD is not voting for engagement of war. Asking for extended time for inspectors to do their job with the cloud of possible war looming over their heads is not voting for engagement of war.
If you can recall, Pres. Bush said "Saddam Hussein threaten my daddy"
And if you recall, again, all the allegations of WMD were totally false. Including the false allegations that Nigeria sold Saddam Hussein enriched uranium. It's further interesting that when a career diplomat who was spent to Nigeria to investigate the allege sale of uranium and found that no sale took place, he was totally ignored. And these allegations were after the votes were in to support
not the war but the disarmament of WMD.
How easy for people to forget the truth. It's called select memory for the wrong reasons.

Go Hillary!!!

Factfinder101: Like many Obama voters I met at here and other boards, you really have no clue about your candidate. Yes, Clinton did make mistakes, as UHC, the main mistake she made is she did not know the powerful groups can be that powerful. Now, let's go back to Iraq. Since when did she mention she will not listen to advisers? Could you point out for me? BTW, mark my words here, I don't think it is realistic to set a mandatory date to withdraw all the troops, as proposed by Obama campaign, such a mandated date shows either it is a campaigning slogan and Obama had no intention to follow; or Obama had no idea what he is talking about.

RS says: " can't believe that she's managed to convince folks that she was duped into supporting the war on Iraq"

Ya. Well if she was duped by Bush, she can't exactly claim that she is ready On Day One.....can she?

Maybe she can come up with a new slogan here. It could go like this:

"Hillary on Iraq: Duped not Dishonest."

df:
I am informed sounds like you are like most of the Hillary supporters blinded by the facts. Only dwelling on the negatives of others when her closet is full of skeletons.

"The mismanagement of the effort in 1993 and 1994 has set back our ability to move toward universal health care immeasurably," Dodd said in a statement. "We've known what the problems have been for nearly 15 years and what the solutions could be. What's been missing is leadership that knows how to bring people together and get the job done."

I think Dodd stated it very well. Don't you...What a frighter....oh I mean fighter lol

Perhaps even more important than when or how we get out of Iraq is recognizing that launching the war was a catastrophic mistake. Obama has called the Iraq war "a strategic error" and that we need to "change the mindset that got us into this war." Only Obama can force a meaningful debate on the Iraq war. If McCain and Clinton are the nominees, they will reach a tacit agreement to avoid discussion of Iraq since both are vulnerable on the issue. And a meaningful debate has to include the devastating impact the war will have on our long-term economic well-being--estimated to be $3 trillion.

Westie

So you are comfortable with the 3 Trillion Dollars our children will have to spend. O.K., it is other people money anyway.

Are comfortable with the lives lost as well?

Factfinder101 : Why would you try to distort the truth while her words are still there for you to check and read?