Political Punch

I wonder how many people will continue to call our occupation of Iraq a war. When does a war end? I thought a war was over when someone surrenders. I thought they pulled Sadam out of a hole and hanged him. Did that not end the war? Who are we at war with? When the Japanese and Germans surrendered and the leaders were executed we counted the war as being over. Now we did work to rebuild the aggressor countries, but that was under the auspices of humanitarian aid.

This country cannot be continue to be lead by the nose by suggestions that any suggestion that we end the war is equivalent to surrender. The war in Iraq is over. Congress may need to declare a war against Afhganistan, since wars are against other nations, not political groups. But the whole lexicon being used is wrong. This wrong lexicon leads to the wrong conclusions. We need to allow the Iraq people to retake ownership of their country, unless we want to make it the 51st state. We need to be clear that our humanitarian aid will be fully available to the financial extent approved by congress, but any military aid will be at cost, with payment due monthly. This will lead to a reduction in cost and perhaps even a reduction in violence. We can then focus our efforts on the real enemy, Al Quida and then set up the paradigm that says we will attack any Al Quida outpost with or without permission from the host country. Our focus should be Al Quida, not Iraq. Obama has this right.

Neutralised what??. She is merely showing her camelion colour again.

HRC Slogan for the Day. Irak Edition.

"Hillary! Duped not Dishonest."

In no way, shape or form has Hillary "neutralized" the war issue, contrary to your first paragraph. She still has not said unambiguously that it was a bad judgment call and the mainstream media still has yet to examine the fact that she never read the intelligence briefing on Iraq personally. Far from it "neutralizing" the issue, I just see her getting more entrenched.

LOL dierdre - it is a free country, i suppose you cant handle the heat? remember your man Obama voted almost identical to Clinton once he became a US Senator so your argument doesnt fly... Clinton and McCain's records are not similar at all but Clinton and Obama's are... Obama's campaign has been about his assertion that "good judgement" overrides his lack of experience... why doesnt he denounce all of his supporters that voted the same way Clinton did? - because he would have almost no one left... now that the real truth is coming out about him... his good judgement argument has failed... oops obamadoo happens! btw i am fair enough to give one response per day to people who cannot debate issues maturely by not launching personal attacks.. have a great day

When the Bush/Cheney axis advocated the invasion of Iraq, Cheney went on TV and opined that the US Invasion Force would be greeted as liberators.

5 years on, with 4,000 plus young men and women killed, goodness knows how many maimed, and a recession which may soon turn into a depression caused by the attempt to go to war without raising taxes to pay for it, it is time for some hard truths.

1st: There will be no US "victory" in Iraq. No army of occupation, however powerful, can succeed against the opposition of the greater part of the population who do not want the occupation to continue. Therefore the USA must leave Iraq. The sooner the better.

2nd: The deficit financing of the war has already caused a recession. Unbridled corporate greed has only made matters worse. Income tax on the very highest earners might have to return temporarily to post WW2 levels.

3rd: McCain/Clinton are both "damaged goods" just as much as is Cheney in relation to the Iraq war. Therefore, the sooner the Democrats unite behind Obama the better - a new President untainted by previous votes in favour of this war might enable the USA regain some of the credibility squandered in the region.

4th: Recovery from the war and the recession will be more painful than anyone is admitting at the moment.

Obams is deaf! He didn't hear one sermon but went to church for twenty years. I'm not a doctor but it sounds like he needs an ear job to blow out the cob webs and other dusty things!!! Calling DR Eliot!!!

What a piece of work Hillary is. She can't stand it because McCain has the right to go into Iraq. She makes an UNINFORMED vote for a war then attacks Obama when he spoke out against it.

I would prefer a president and commander-in-chief who would want to meet with his battlefield commanders before enacting any plan he makes as a civilian. She is right, Obama isn't informed yet...NOR IS SHE. Obama is smart enough to recognize America will be better served when he seeks counsel...HILLARY IS ARROGANT ENOUGH to think she doesn't need it.

I don't believe a word that comes out of her mouth or her sleeze of a husband. Their arrogance and sense of entitlement are just unbelievable.

I remember thinking that if Senator Clinton supported the war vote, as she did, she must know something from from "pillow talk" with President Clinton. (sorry for that image)

One constant nagging question I have is
What do or did they know. The WMD issue has always seemed a straw horse. If President Bush lied Senator Clinton did also, Why?

None of us are perfect we all make mistakes. We cannot expect that of Hillary or Obama....

Obama has been asked questions about his pastor and others. I believe he has been honest in answering these questions. We all know people that we don't agree with but we do not denounce them, we just denounce their views on certian issues. If you are stating that you denounce anyone that doesn't believe as you do...I am sorry it must be a lonely life.

Story 'Completely Unacceptable:' Barack Obama on His Pastor's Controversial Remarks

Look into these issues, I would like Hillary to address:

Fundraisers: Norman Hsu was one of Hillary's biggest fundraisers -- raising over $850,000 for her -- right up to the day he surrendered to California State Superior Court on a Grand Theft conviction; he had been a fugitive from justice for 15 years, since he failed to appear for sentencing after pleading no contest. His crime was raising over a million dollars from investors for a business scheme that didn't exist.

Phony Commodity Options Profit

In 1978, with no prior experience, Hillary Clinton started trading high risk commodities futures under the guidance of James Blair, a friend. Blair was also an experienced trader who was outside counsel to massive Arkansas chicken processor Tyson Foods (which had business before Bill Clinton, then the governor of Arkansas.) Hillary did very well, improbably well, even given the fact that a major bull market was going on. One possibility, hinted at by trading records from the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, is that Blair traded for her and manipulated results to put money in Hillary's pocket. For example, a trader might make a large number of trades in a single day, for themself and for clients. Some of them will do well and some will fail. Instead of allocated the trades between various clients as originally intended, a trader like Blair could reassign all of the successful trades to one client (such as Clinton) and assign the losers to himself, or another client. That way, he would effectively pay her the money without worry about laws against payoffs.

Whitewater and the Missing Billing Records

This one really gets me...

Pardons and the Riches:
At the very end of his presidential term, Bill Clinton pardoned a number of people, including financier and convicted tax evader Marc Rich. It's on Hillary's scandal page because a few months earlier, Rich's former wife Denise gave substantial donations to Hillary's senatorial campaign and the Clinton library. While any wife or husband of a politician should be free to run for office, running while the spouse is still in power creates an immediate conflict of interest, and Bill had no trouble repaying the favor to his wife's contributor.
The interesting part of this story is who else was urging Clinton to pardon Marc Rich. The request was delivered to Hillary personally by none other than Scooter Libby, who was Rich's lawyer and has since been convicted of perjury in the Bush administration's leaking of the identity of arms control spy Valerie Plame. And Rich's application was supported by Israel's then-Prime Minister Ehud Barak. The final twist is that Rich was a suspected middleman in smuggling of Iraqi oil despite the trade embargo. His pardon required him to pay a $100 MILLION FINE before he could return to the U.S. That should give conspiracy folks something to chew on.

Serious question:

Does anyone have a historical example where setting a date for withdrawal would be detrimental? Im interested in real-world examples and not speculation.

As her record indicates, Hillary Clinton’s position on Iraq differs very little from that of President Bush. For her to receive the nomination for president would in effect be an endorsement by the Democratic Party of the Iraq war.

In 2004, the Democrats selected a nominee who also voted to authorize the invasion of Iraq, falsely claimed that Iraq still had WMDs, and – at that time – insisted on maintaining U.S. troops in that country. As a result, Senator John Kerry failed to mobilize the party’s anti-war base and went down to defeat. What timid concerns Kerry did raise about President Bush’s handling of the Iraq war during the campaign were used by the Bush campaign to focus attention away from the war itself and highlight the Democratic nominee’s changing positions. Had the Democrats instead nominated someone who had opposed the war from the beginning, the debate that fall would have been not about Senator Kerry’s supposed flip-flopping but the tragic decision to illegally invade a country on the far side of the world that was no threat to us and the squandering of American lives and tax dollars that have resulted.

If the Democrats select another war supporter as their nominee in 2008, the result may well be the same as 2004. Large numbers of people will refuse to vote for the Democratic nominee as part of a principled stance against voting for someone who authorized and subsequently supported the Iraq war. And Republicans will highlight the Democratic nominee’s shifting positions on Iraq as evidence that their opponent is simply an opportunistic politician rather than the kind of decisive leader the country needs.

Obama voice his opinion about the war.
Stating he was against it.

He pointed fingers, blamed McCain, Clinton and Bush for the war.

He Failed to say, He was not a senator at the time, that 77 senators voted for the war.

He failed to say since he became a US Senator he voted for funding to continue the war.

He told everyone the cost of the war, was causing all their problems and blamed some more. Always others not himself.

He started out with ending the war and bringing our boys and girls home. He has added and changed that so many times. par for the course of obama

He has never shown can care or concern of any of the boys and girls in the service, or supported them, their families in the war.

Mr Obama's major concern about the war, is to feed Americans his rehtoric and use the war to blame people and the American economy on..... To gain votes.

Mr Obama has started many things in motion..... Which all are destorying this country.

He said he wanted to unite and has caused major divisions.

He said he wanted to end the war, then talk of sending our boys and girls some where else.

He told every one they had problems financially and the war was making it worse, they stopped spending.

He told business and industry, he would stop trade pacts, rasise min wage, and make sure everyone would have affordable health car. He would remove their tax breaks and raise the min wage.
They started preparing.

He stole the dreams of our youth. Told them "Do not go into corporate America, take jobs as nurses, and teachers, that is what we need." When they have their hearts set on going studying hard to be Doctors, lawyers, Senators.

He said he wanted to Unite, then he turns around and divides and tears down.

He tells the people government is do bad
He wants to change it. He does not say into what, how when, and what it takes.
He is government and votes present on most voting, does not stand up for issues and for the American people now.
Does he just want the power? Does he want to change it into facism or socialism as his platform reeks of.

He Knew Rev Wrights out look, beliefs, radical ideas before he even announced his candidacy. That is why he did not have him speak at his announcement.
(but he kept him on a African American religious committee. Is there a White American Religious committee?

he has lied about his friends over and over again. He is confused on who he does know and whom he doesn't know or is he.

He has spoken out putting down, belittling blaming, his government saying they are corrupt. From the office of president down to every congressman, to the people of this country and for the world to see.

He is going to testify for a crook who stole money, was involved in political corruption. His friend, Is this pay back for all the favors done? Is this the kick-back his friend gets.

He has lied, blamed, pointed fingers,
mislead, flip-flopped, belittled etc, etc.

Then he throughs in poor me, the media is causing all my problems. There is goes blaming someone else.

He has done this all on his own. The whinnying and wanting sympathy votes.

He will continue to use his plan, on demanding others to expose themselves, On smearing others, trying to make them look bad, to take the eyes and world looking off him. That is all he knows how to do.

Mr Obama, I love America and its freedoms. I have been proud of my country my entire life. My Only Allegiance is to The United States Of America.

Wake up America, Take the wool from your eyes. Don't be scammed anymore.

U.S. troops could remain there for 50 or 100 years, "as long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed, it's fine with me, and I hope it would be fine with you, if we maintain a presence in a very volatile part of the world where al-Qaeda is training, recruiting, equipping and motivating people every single day." (McCain)

When in the history of military forces are not injured,harmed,wounded or killed in occupied countries. Please! Do not show your naivete.
If you read more on B.O. position on the Iraq war,
you'll know he was too busy in pushing bad legislation and did not voice a statement against the war during the debates until it proved to be convenient to oppose it when it became popular to do so.
Asking for extended time to look for WMD is not voting for engagement of war. Asking for extended time for inspectors to do their job with the cloud of possible war looming over their heads is not voting for engagement of war.
If you can recall, Pres. Bush said "Saddam Hussein threaten my daddy"
And if you recall, again, all the allegations of WMD were totally false. Including the false allegations that Nigeria sold Saddam Hussein enriched uranium. It's further interesting that when a career diplomat who was spent to Nigeria to investigate the allege sale of uranium and found that no sale took place, he was totally ignored. And these allegations were after the votes were in to support
not the war but the disarmament of WMD.
How easy for people to forget the truth. It's called select memory for the wrong reasons.

Go Hillary!!!

Factfinder101: Like many Obama voters I met at here and other boards, you really have no clue about your candidate. Yes, Clinton did make mistakes, as UHC, the main mistake she made is she did not know the powerful groups can be that powerful. Now, let's go back to Iraq. Since when did she mention she will not listen to advisers? Could you point out for me? BTW, mark my words here, I don't think it is realistic to set a mandatory date to withdraw all the troops, as proposed by Obama campaign, such a mandated date shows either it is a campaigning slogan and Obama had no intention to follow; or Obama had no idea what he is talking about.

RS says: " can't believe that she's managed to convince folks that she was duped into supporting the war on Iraq"

Ya. Well if she was duped by Bush, she can't exactly claim that she is ready On Day One.....can she?

Maybe she can come up with a new slogan here. It could go like this:

"Hillary on Iraq: Duped not Dishonest."

df:
I am informed sounds like you are like most of the Hillary supporters blinded by the facts. Only dwelling on the negatives of others when her closet is full of skeletons.

"The mismanagement of the effort in 1993 and 1994 has set back our ability to move toward universal health care immeasurably," Dodd said in a statement. "We've known what the problems have been for nearly 15 years and what the solutions could be. What's been missing is leadership that knows how to bring people together and get the job done."

I think Dodd stated it very well. Don't you...What a frighter....oh I mean fighter lol

Perhaps even more important than when or how we get out of Iraq is recognizing that launching the war was a catastrophic mistake. Obama has called the Iraq war "a strategic error" and that we need to "change the mindset that got us into this war." Only Obama can force a meaningful debate on the Iraq war. If McCain and Clinton are the nominees, they will reach a tacit agreement to avoid discussion of Iraq since both are vulnerable on the issue. And a meaningful debate has to include the devastating impact the war will have on our long-term economic well-being--estimated to be $3 trillion.

Westie

So you are comfortable with the 3 Trillion Dollars our children will have to spend. O.K., it is other people money anyway.

Are comfortable with the lives lost as well?

Factfinder101 : Why would you try to distort the truth while her words are still there for you to check and read?

I am reading these posts...and came to a realization. Hillary Clinton has attacked Obama about his advisors statement that he would consult with his advisors when becoming president and not totally rely on his plan to withdrawl troops from iraq. She is condemning him for this. I for one think that it is a very logical very smart thing...Obama does not assume that his views are the only views that are correct, he has stated that he will listen to all of his advisors and make the best judgement at that time. He will get the troops out of iraq. Ok...now Hillary is stating that her plan to get the troops out is right (is she stating that she will not listen to her advisors and make adjustments to her plan) she has been known to do this before with her health plan. she has this attitude that her plans her ideas are right and if someone questions them they are wrong and she "fights". I am not looking for a president that will "fight" everyone, I need a president that is willing to listen to everyone and make well informed decisions, agreeing that he may not always have the best answers and is willing to listen to all of the facts before reacting before "fighting". I think that was the problem witht the Bush admistration, the reacted they wanted to "fight" without looking at all of the facts without listening to all of the information...Do we want another "fighter" just like Bush?

Obama 08

Except Hopespring52, the pastor was right and those who Hillary listened to were wrong. And she is still wrong in blaming Iraq's puppet government for not performing for the master who attacked, destroyed and occupied their country. Again, she is simply passing off blame. Iraq is-was one of the oldest civilizations in the world--how long has the US been on the block by comparison? A couple of weeks? The Iraqis can take care of themselves--surely better than our alternative, the question is would we allow it?

Rose : Hmm, I don't know Rezko that much? I only did 5 hours of paper work? What an honest 50 years old politician!

Regardless of which candidate I favor,
this is a pathetic article.

If either Obama or Clinton is elected, I fear their flawed foreign policy will result in a total failure for the Iraqi people. Do they not remember the lessons from Vietnam? After the Paris Peace Accord and ceasefire in 1973, the US failure on our promise to support the govt of South Vietnam, led to its defeat and dissolution in 1975. This is what happens when you just leave. Regardless of all the wrong reasons for why the war in Iraq was started, we must stablize Iraq before pulling out. We owe it to the Iraqi people, and to our US soliders so their deaths are not in vain. Looks like McCain is the only one that understands this.

Well..this is quite a balanced and non-biased analysis of the speech. (sarcasm intended)

Seriously, if Obama wants to make Iraq/judgement his core argument, he is going to have to come up with a better reasoning than one speech. And is going to have to explain how with all his superior judgement claims he still considers Rezko a friend and knew nothing of the radical views of his pastor of 20 yrs. if he can't judge the people with whom he has had long standing relationships with, how should he be trusted to make accurate judgements of people he meets with on the international stage.

Hey Commander Guy,
I'm totally comfortable with her position of cutting off that flow of money as soon as its feasible. I'm more worried about the $10 trillion dollar overall debt that the Republican Party leadership has saddled us with. Do you remember a President named Clinton, what was the budget deficit. Oh, yes, it's coming back to me. ZERO.

I can't believe that she's managed to convince folks that she was duped into supporting the war on Iraq, that President Bush managed to convince them that going to war was the right thing.

SHE DIDN'T READ the INTELLIGENCE ESTIMATE.
The single biggest decision over the last 5 years and she didn't READ the &^%**# ESTIMATE. How brain dead can one get?

Clinton demonstrates what we don't want or don't need in a president for these times:
One that has no moral or ethical qualms about operating out of the Bush-Rove playbook.

We don't need another lying dirty administration as our face in the world.

Hillary made her judgment about authorizing force against Iraq if inspections failed based on the reports of the president, the vice president, the CIA, the intelligence community, Colin Powell and the State Department etc. My fear is that Obama made his decision to oppose authorization based on the sermons of Pastor Wright. Over the long run, I'll take a president who listens to the advice of American officials rather than Pastor Wright.

Experience does matter, Just compare what the first and second Bush did.

Goodgrace,
Oh, you are going to play the my-credentials-are-better-than-your-credentials game. BTW, I'm definitely no fan of Limbaugh, but you would paint me that way because I don't buy the Zunes koolaid without ever having the guy vetted for even a moment. Of course, YOU say so so it MUST be TRUE. How are you to judge my accuracy in comparison with the professor, whom you've pre-designated as some type of arch angel. Hey, used to play baseball with Thomas Philpott, now there's some real credentials.

Jay: Stop distorting her words, when did she say she does not need advice while her actual words are "too dependent on advisers". Why should we elect a president who has no clue about what is going on, and just say whatever his advisers asked him to say, and do whatever his advisers ask him to do?

Westie

You say you're comfortable with Hillary's position on supporting the Irak war.

Are you comfortable with the 3 Trillion Dollars that former Clinton Administration Officials say its gonna cost?

I don't have to guess if Hillary is ready to lead. She will lead us just like Bush has. We will get only the information from a Hillary Presidency that supports her views. We will not get the whole truth.

Be carefull America. We are making history every day. The question is, what kind of history do you want to make?

CBA,
I was for the war before I was against it. So was approximately 50 per cent of all Americans. We base our decisions on available information. We're not SPECIAL like you with some kind of superior informaton source. Gimme a break.

"War!" Clinton and McCain cried.
And the dollar died.

"War!" Both Clinton and McCain said.
Now the dollar's dead.

"War!" to the congress they yelled.
Now the economy's gone to hell.

You can't spend billions of dollars a week on a war and expect your economy to thrive. Why didn't they have the judgment to just say "no"?

Why does Hillary have Sandy Berger as a Foreign Policy Adviser?
He's a caught crook. He stole papers for the Clintons.

How many Hillary earmarks benefit the military-industrial complex.

If it will hurt Hillary politically to get us out of Iraq, she will not do it.

Hillary says she does not need advicers to make decisions. That is the damdest thing to say. Why does the president have advisers because he does not think he knows everything. Is that why she voted for the war without reading the INE report.

Clinton, like a majority of the Congress and the nation, was duped by Bush and entertained the notion of using force "if inspections failed". She was duped by Bush. I was duped by Bush. Even Saddam's generals believed Bush and not Saddam about the WMDs. I believe that based on the bogus evidence that was presented to the Congress by Bush, she voted the right way. It was unimaginable and disgraceful that a president of the U.S. would misrepresent the facts and basis for going to war so blatantly. Even Colin Powell was utilized to pull off the sham. The question is what do you do from here. She has a clear, strong plan. Obama says one thing to voters, and his top foreign policy advisor says he'll really do another.

WestCoastMessenger,

Where is the Limbaugh University you appear to have graduated from? LOL.

Prof. Steven Zunes in that article gives a well documented overview of Hillary's statements and stands over the years.

You don't have to agree with Zunes' conclusion, but the overview he gives and the Clinton quotes you'll find speak a thousand words on themselves.

He's much more accurate on the issue than you are, so he might interest some readers here.

DL,
Actually it's not the crack I worry about it, it's the crackhead that's carrying. I'm very comfortable with the HILLARY CLINTON position on Iraq and I'm not pointing elsewhere. She was in a position of leadership. She voted in favor of the Bush proposal based on the information provided by the Bush team. Additional information has emerged showing it is a failed effort based on misinformation. The surge premise, that the surge would provide political cover while the Iraqi leadership produced reform measures has proven to be a failure. She has given the Republican leadership every benefit of the doubt, and the fact is, the Republican leadership has not delivered, and therefore it is reasonable to withdraw her support, and to withdraw our troops. I'm not interested in a 100 year battle, are you?

Jane

"Sen clinton has never waivered on her position"

You are kidding...

Yeah she'll never say she was wrong about anything... or that her position changed...that is the osition she never changes.

Hey Commander Guy,
She was there supporting our President, the guy you voted for, based on the information his team provided. You, of course, knew it was bogus information BEFORE all of us. I love you smart people.

So Hilliary was for the war before she was against it. I'm sorry but your gender doesn't save you from having poor judgement. A bad decision, is still a bad decision. Look at the price of oil, gas, food, your investments since the war started in 2003, are you better off now since then? How has the war helped anybody but military contractors AND Al-Quaeda??? If Bush is to be held accountable for his decision to go to war, so should Hilliary! Hell, if she is claiming that SHE was misled, then couldn't "Curious George" use the same straw man. Or how about her buddy McCain for that matter. I'm sorry, but this country would be in alot better shape, finacially, and from a security standpoint if we didn't start another war, diverting us from the real threat in Afghanistan. She must be held accountable for that. It's not her gender that's the problem, it's her poor judgement. (Not to mention she's doubling down or her lack of judgement helping pave the way for yet another war in IRAN) How much will America have to give before Hilliary and her elk feel "SAFE???" Enough is enough!!!

westcoast messenger...

I think your post is right ...you will not be deterred by this posting or any other with facts or otherwise...

Jake is not spinning. You can say that about a bunch of postings in the other direction... but like I say... as soon as there is anything close to fact... the Clinton supporters head for pointing away from the subject and blaming the media for slinning... "bias in the reporting!..RUSH!!!! YOU ARE RUSH!!! You had sex with Obama!! (hello where are all the clinton scandals?...uh nowhere)...

You all hate any sign of a crack...you are like her ...she never made a mistake. ...and that is like some other politician we know...blame the media and never ackowledge a mistake...hmmm.

This is a very biased piece of analysis from a senior reporter. I thought Clinton's speech was great and she reiterated her plans for a withdrawal --she has never waivered on her position. Whatever time she started "working to aggressively end the war" is shown as taking a courageous position as opposed to Obama doing nothing to end a war which he so believed is wrong. You have to be proactive every day to end this war and not just stuck time wary of 5 years ago on what you believed then and who started it. There have to be solutions going forward and Clinton has taken the right position on this.

And for you to outright say that she implied that Samantha Power is still Obama's senior adviser is preposterous. Of course, the world knows that she resigned. This is just nit picking and casting a lens on Hillary Clinton that is seldom used to scrutined Obama and his records.

If we think Willie Norton was an issue in the past, if Obama is the nominee the Repubs will tear him apart for his radical, very leftist association with Mr. Wight who was his mentor for 20 years and whose idea it was for his book -- The Audacity of Hope.

I think as the days go by, we will see an Obama emerging more like Jesse Jackson than a Colin Powell.

Goodgrace,
As far as I can tell the guy you are quoting is a leftist radical that still lives in a commune and attacks any and all aspects of American foreign policy. Hillary took a stance, has consistently evaluated the stance, and takes measured responses in improving that stance. To me that is a mark of a leader. You would have us stay in Iraq longer?

Thank you for your concern for Iraq citizens safety after the troop withdrawals.

I don't think it is realistic to set a mandatory date to withdraw all the troops, as proposed by Obama campaign, such a mandated date shows either it is a campaigning slogan and Obama had no intention to follow; or Obama had no idea what he is talking about.

59 million people didn't seem to mind John Kerry and his vote on the war as their presidential candidate in 2004. Nice double standard folks. It's easy to say "I told you so" or hindsight's 20/20.

Again, if her vote is such poor judgment, should we then trust the judgment of the likes of Senators Kerry, Kennedy, Rockefeller, Dodd and Daschle who have supported Obama. If you can't trust someone's judgment based on their Iraq resolution vote, then certainly there must be something wrong with their judgment to endorse Senator Obama.

You can't have it both ways.

Vanessa,
You are claiming a flip-flop on this issue. What exactly is the flip-flop?

WestCoastMessenger,

Come on! Do you REALLY care? Please read the detailed article I refered to in the first post of this thread if you do.

Hillary Clinton has been a strident backer of the invasion who only recently and opportunistically began to criticize the war and call for a partial withdrawal of American forces.

She has proven to be one of the most hard-line Democratic senators in support of a military response to the challenges posed by Iraq. She has also been less than honest in justifying her militaristic policies, raising concerns that she might support military interventions elsewhere.

Here’s another gem from Obama’s pastor, the esteemed Reverend Wright. This time the subject is missing teen Natalee Holloway:

"Black women are being raped daily in Darfur, Sudan, in the Congo and in Sub-Saharan Africa. That doesn't make news,"
But, "One 18-year-old white girl from Alabama gets drunk on a graduation trip to Aruba, goes off and 'gives it up' while in a foreign country, and that stays in the news for months!" he added. "Maybe I am missing something!"

And I suppose Obama knew nothing about this statement from his friend, his mentor, his pastor of 20 years and the man who conducted his wedding, blessed his house, and baptized his daughters.

All,

Please leave my husband alone. He is not anti-American. He would have walked off the sermons by Rev. Wright only if he was awake. However, he was asleep.

Please stop reading about my husband on

You people thinking that Hussein being his middle name is a bad thing...
That it won't help us (and I am a white guy whose ancestors fought at Lexington AND Concord)...

If you think it won't help us with the horrible situation we have in the middle east...

You think it is a bad thing... well, you really are stupid then.

Go ahead vote for the other candidate...take me and my children and grandchildren down with ya'.

LIke said many times she says what she thinks the people want to hear.She voted to send these men and women to war and now she thinks she can begin day one, what happened 5 years ago she should have voted NO>>>>You have to fund the people that are over there fighting I fault no one for that...They need all the help they can get from us.You can't expect not to give them what they need fighting this stupid war and she is as much to fault as Bush...Damn their hides.........

Hey Brenna,
Now there's a fact-filled indictment against HILLARY CLINTON. Hey you convinced me with your sound logic and reasoning. I'm going to run out and vote in favor of everything RUSH LIMBAUGH tells me to do. What powers of persuasion you have. NOT.

HILLARY CLINTON is right on Iraq. She has shown leadership on Iraq. Obama's Iraq policy is simply "I was against the war from the start". Simon and Garfunkel wrote a song about this called "Nowhere Man". He was nowhere to be found when that Iraq vote took place, because he wasn't even in the Senate. Give me evidence of real leadership SENATOR OBAMA. Your actions are only reactionary, when you see the election slipping away.

Hillary Clinton: master of doublespeak and hypocrite. I'm so tired of listening to her and her people twist things around over and over again. Do we really need to hear this garbage for the next few months? Ugly politics is her middle name. The campaign is over as far as I'm concerned and she's not in it.

I see the liberals are out trying to spin away Hillary making sense for Obama. You guys are delusional... Hillary is the only hope left for the democrats in this election. No way, Obama has a prayer (pun intended).

This is called "hypocrisy". She voted for the war without even reading the NI. she supported Bush. She is running for the office and wants to change everything. American People are not stupid. She should be impeached for sending our Men and women to WAR. if gets elected, she will change her position and make them stay there for years and she will make another speech saying that they have to finish the WAR for the sake of Iraqi Women and Kids.

Okay...that's it...

I am disgusted ...twists and spin and twists and spin and a right hook to the kidneys...throw sand in the ref's face...

"I have to be President. I have to be President. I have to be President. I have to be..."

Wait a minute this isn't Obama lying on the mat. ...this is the country I am trashing.

"...Oh bu look my fans are still cheering me on...that's right I led the way in Iraq.! IIIII led the way. Don't let anyone tell you different"

"I MUST BEEE PRESIDENT!!!!!"

I have a bigger microphone than he does but please don't look at the correlation between my statements and the polls.

Sincerely
PRRRREEESSSSIDDDEEEENNTTT
Hillary Clinton.

P.S. thank you for acknowledging my experience... and all those bad things about that great African American candidate Barack Hussein obama.

Yes, It's about time, we put an end to Obama's accusation that Hillary voted to go to War. After all, he was not there to vote and it is easy to criticize someone when you do not have to vote.

Shame on Rev. Wright and Obama for associating himself with this lunetic racist.

Go Hillary ... In PA, we are all behind you.

Your link to this from the front page a typo: It says "Obama & Obama" instead of "Obama & McCain". As for the content, keep in mind that the best person to end a war is one who supported the war in the first place. That shows they are nuanced. And likewise, the person most likely to get us into war is sometimes the person who has something to prove. E.g., Olmert in Israel.

Hillary has no shame. She flip-flops on every major issue. How can you vote for something without reading what your voting for. Experience??? Look at where her experience has gotten her. To a useless war that should have never been authorized.

Yes, that is why nobody cares anymore about what she says. Next topic, please!