Political Punch

Republicans really like Obama now...

Today Fox website has an article "Obama Attempts Damage Control, Fallout Over Pastor’s Sermons Unclear"

it says:

"Ari Fleischer, former press secretary for President Bush, suggested that the controversy and the timing of Obama’s disavowal show him to be little more than a shrewd politician.

“I think there’s a reason Republicans I talk to are increasingly looking forward to running against Barack Obama,” Fleischer said."

Wouldn't really use Paglia as an objective perspective on anyone, especially Hillary. CP is well-known critic of everyone who isn't in her sphere, which per Wikipedia, would be ...

" Her views on the legalization of recreational drugs and prostitution, and on the relaxation of sexual consent laws, are more libertarian. She is a strong critic of much of the feminism that began with Betty Friedan's 1962 The Feminine Mystique and compared feminists — whom she considered to be victim-centered — to the Unification Church. At the same time Paglia's embrace of fetishism, pornography, prostitution and, most prominently, male homosexuality, puts her at odds with the "family values" of American social conservatives.[5]

Her supporters (for different reasons) include Andrew Sullivan, Christina Hoff Sommers, Rush Limbaugh, Bill Maher, Matt Drudge and her Yale mentor Harold Bloom. Elise Sutton, a dominatrix advocating female domination of males, describes Paglia as a female supremacist and a friend.[6]"

Will, you wrote: "...but in terms of racists and idiots, I doubt people are calling you a racist or an idiot without some evidence."

If Sen. Obama is the Democratic Party's nominee, during the general election ANY comment that is made about Sen. Obama by Sen. McCain will be labeled (not by Sen. Obama, but by the Left Wing 527s) as a negative comment and ultimately labeled as a racist comment. Thus race will play a huge -- and very negative -- part in the general election. That is unless Sen. McCain and the Republican Party can convince either Dr. Condoleezza Rice or Gen. Colin Powell to join him on the Republican ticket. By both political parties having an African-American on their ticket the experience should be mostly positive and could become a giant step toward's fulfilling Dr. Martin Luther King's dream.

Thank goodness there is time for people in PA and around the country to finally learn who the real Obama is. The msm is in the tank for Obama, but the local media, National Enquirer, and concerned voters will be able to educate people about this fraud. Now someone is finally taking a look at the racist church he attends.

Lauren

With all of these comments...do you understand what adding Sen. Clinton to the mix does?

Doesn't this campaign alone show you that this is the tone no matter where they go?

Politics is rough yes...but shouldn't we be better people than this?

...and the traits of a "successful" President are not just about the qualities of efficiency, or fighting, or having seen the battles...

It is not only about judgement (although this really is pretty dang important obviously)

Inspiring the country is huge. You need the people behind you... and you can inspire through fear, through intimidation or you can inspire through telling people they are a good people...that all people are good in this nation.

You can belittle it all you want ...but the Lincolns, the FDR's, the JFK's all inspired...

I disagree with people (even comdediennes) saying anger and aggressiveness can "get things done". Anger and aggressiveness begets anger and aggressiveness.

as we have seen in the congress...as we have seen in this campaign... as we have seen in committees that are set up to accomplished things... "The my way or the highway and I will FIGHT to do this...has not worked.

There qualifications in administration and giving back are equivalent in the fact that she has the years and the prominence ...he has the depth and the proximity.

What this country needs is a change in direction and tone. Unfortunately, Sen Obama was the one who was heading in that direction...and we are losing that battle.

I don't believe that Javier Barden is a pageboy wearing murderous thug, he just played the part. And I don't think that Clinton or Ferraro are racists. Clinton is a ruthless pol with a war-room style of politics. She knows how to win the rural white vote in Pennsylvania at any cost. Her campaign wrote the ugly script and cast the part beautifully. Ferraro, a loyal pol willing to take one for the team, played the part...End of ugly story.
I think Senator Kenedy gives compelling reason to reject this war-room style of politics when he said, "With Barack Obama we will close the book on the old politics of race against race, gender against gender, ethnic group against ethnic group, and straight against gay,"

Ferraro went Kamikazi, she did't say what 'we were all thinking' she said what's her camp is thinking.. Geri Ferraro martyered herself in the name of Hillary Clinton. Clintonites a moment of silence.

I tend to not care that much about Obama's pastor nor did I care that much about what Geraldine said - people get worked up ...etc.

Yes, Obama's pastor is going too far with the race thing..but then I don't know what it's like to be black.

My interest is how the candidates react to challenges in their life...and what choices they make.

Hillary reacts too frequently by cheating and lying and trying to destroy those she sees as her opposition. She doesn't react well to dissent.

Not sure about Obama yet. He seems to be more reasonable. One thing for sure, he had to do a lot of self-reflection with his background and then got himself to be the editor of the Harvard Law Review. No small accomplishment. His campaign has been well run and so far has surprised everyone, especially Hillary.

McCain seems to want to work things out for
what's best for everyone - I say that because of all his bi-partisan bills he's sponsored, often with a political cost to him from his base. McCain is tough, he knows how to hang in there and has proven that over and over.

Forgot to mention, I am from Chicago, born and raised here. My whole family, kith and kin live all around the North West suburbs of Chicago. Most of us have a very positive opinion about Mr. Obama and his character and integrity. Same is not shared in our circles about Hillary. We think, Clintons belonged to another time. And I am not black. Don't minimize Obama's achievment or his candidacy by all these speculations and racial tones. He will be a great President.

Good Night Jay.

Cortez: I have to agree with you on this post. We all get heated up about our preferred candidate, but all we want is a stable and prosperous future for ourselves, our children and grand children. Is that too much to ask? I sincerely hope that who ever is elected President will try their best to fix all the wrongs in our country today. I am not expecting miracles just some honest progress.
Good night Will, SuzieQ & Cortez. It was great chatting with all of you.

Will: All I am suggesting is Obama did nothing when he could have stepped in an help those people in his district in the substandard housing bought by Rezko with grants Obama assisted in procuring. Maybe Mr.Obama was a little too busy getting ready to run for President. I lived on the south side, I know the area very well, and there are many bitter people when it comes to that Rezko/Obama building deal.

I have blogged a lot, written for Hillary a lot in the beginning, and then a lot for Obama now. Sometimes, I think, perhaps we are all wasting our precious time on endless arguing for nothing. Finally, it comes down to caring for our children and for our families no matter what happens to these candidates, great as Hillary or Obama may be. Lets take a step back from all these attacks and go back to the basics...So, Good night folks. nice talking to you all.

Jay,
You're not the only one I've talked to who is from Chicago says negative things about Obama and that he isn't what he seems. You sound like a reasonable and intelligent person and I appreciate your comments.

I am going look into Obama.

BTW, one candidate who has demonstrated a pretty good character is McCain. I understand there is a first in, first out rule in the military and the reason McCain refused to be released from the Hanoi Hilton when it was offered was because he wasn't the first in and refused to jump the line ahead of his buddies. That was amazing, actually. It doesn't make him perfect of course but that was a heck of a thing to do.

"You are correct Will, except for some darn reason, we are not allowed to scrutinize Obama's integrity."

You most certainly can. I would hope it's done fairly.

"Every time we do, we are called racists, and idiots, and nutjobs."

I don't know why Cortez keeps calling you a nut, but in terms of racists and idiots, I doubt people are calling you a racist or an idiot without some evidence.

"He answers 8 questions on Rezko and runs away from reporters."

Think you can get more then 8 questions answered from Hillary about all of the many scandals she has been apart of? How about the scandals that are coming up? And I don't mean that in a hypothetical. A few more scandals are going to be coming up that I'm sure she's not going to answer in great length. You want the candidates to be subjected to an extensive line of questions regarding scandals? It will take much longer to go through Hillary's.

"His integrity is one of the reasons I cannot ever vote for him."

And yet, you can vote for Hillary because...

"He is a Chicago politician, a wheeler-dealer and he is only out for himself. Why do I feel that way, because I was born and raised and lived in Chicago for 35 years. He did nothing to help the people of Illinois, the City of Chicago or his own district. He is not what he says he is. How is he going to change our country and the entire world in 4 years?"

OK, this I can't speak on because this is your own personal belief about him. I for one know there are some people that I harbor negative feelings to because I think they are not what they say or think they are. One being Hillary Clinton. So, I can respect that assessment from you.

"Google Obama/Rezko video.. see NBC' Carol Marin video."

Saw it, and you're saying you want to ask him questions over and over about this? Are you suggesting he did something wrong?

Its so funny and at the same time sad to see that we democrats will be fighting like this between Obama and Hillary. One or the other has to give in. Once upon a time when M. Jordan was in Chicago Bulls, we used to feel great for the team. But now, we accept the fact and have moved on, without much worrying about why Bulls are not the winners. So too, for Hillary supporters, you know your candidate, your campaign and your stock is not doing well. Don't join Hillary to go on the attack against other democrats. It will tear us apart. Who knows, if she can be pursuaded to give up gracefully, then she will keep the respect of the party and the Nation for the rest of her life. But if you all join her in tearing others out because of frustration, then we all will be the losers in November. Time to give up folks. Its not easy. Let the winner take it. And as it stands, don't cheat the voters and steal the nomination for her. That is not right and we should never do it.

SuziQ: You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I certainly hope you do an in-depth research on Mr.Obama in the same way as you have vetted Hillary.
I have done the exact same research regarding Mr.Obama, as is the case. I have written him off.

i have yet to look at Obama in depth - regarding my perception of his character. I do think character counts as much as anything in a President. The person in the oval office can get tons of advisor and reports but in the end we're trusting them to do the right thing. Hillary's history tells me that Hillary will do the politically expedient thing...what's best for her and the people who finance her. People who know her way better than I, plus a lot of research, confirms this.
I've written her off.

But Will , Mr. Obama will also have to rely on the super delegates to win this nomination. No matter how we see it, I do agree with you that this long, protracted fight will weaken both candidates and the party in the end, and everyone will be playing the blame game. Sad but so true.

Is there something special about 35 years? Hillary says she has 35 years of experience and this hillary nut (jay) also says he has 35 years of chicago experience. give me a break!!!!!!

"Will, with the same poker analogy, the game still isn't over. Many cards have not been dealt yet, and if one candidate see's even a slim chance of winning, why should he/she quit. This contest will be decided by delegates at the convention, so neither Hillary or Barack will have enough pledged delegates. Why should either quit just because the other one wants them to?
If you are a Hillary supporter Barack is pulling the party down, if you are an Obama supporter Hillary is pulling the party down. I think it should be played all the way out. Hillary has nothing to lose at this point. I wonder though, does OBama?"

OK, I can respect this point of view. You make a great point here. But, Im not certain how you weigh the fact that this long drawn-out battle is proving to be a negative for the Democrats. The nomination is not as important as the General Election. And this drawn at process, at this point is hurting the Dems. I can agree, if tHillary was able to catch up in pledged delegates. Even by 1 point lead, then I'd say GO GET HIM! That is not the case. She can not beat him in pledged delegates. She will not. She will have to rely on the superdelegates. The argument will be that the superdelegates will have far more say then they should and that they should follow the will of the people. It will be a rain of fire. Look, I don't want to take away anyones fire. I can't say I don't love a good fight, but when people who are supposed to be on the same team are scratching each others eyes out, somethings gotta give.

You are correct Will, except for some darn reason, we are not allowed to scrutinize Obama's integrity. Every time we do, we are called racists, and idiots, and nutjobs. He answers 8 questions on Rezko and runs away from reporters.
His integrity is one of the reasons I cannot ever vote for him. He is a Chicago politician, a wheeler-dealer and he is only out for himself. Why do I feel that way, because I was born and raised and lived in Chicago for 35 years. He did nothing to help the people of Illinois, the City of Chicago or his own district. He is not what he says he is. How is he going to change our country and the entire world in 4 years?

Google Obama/Rezko video.. see NBC' Carol Marin video.

Did you hear that this NY Governor Spitzer and Bill Clinton were together many a time, in the evenings? Wonder, what these two were doing together? Exchanging notes? Cable and local TVs were full of Lewinsky and Kristen images today...Getting tired of these Spitzer and Clintons. Turn the page folks...we don't want the baggage of the 90s.

"

Ok, I looked at the link you sent to someone else. It didn't mention that Hillary was one of 3 out of 100s of Watergate attorneys who was recommended at not for rehire by her supervisor, a Democrat, Jerry Zeiffman. He wrote a book about these events and Hillary is ethically challenged and lies.

So this link you had makes it look as though she had a big success there and she did not.
"

LOL @ "ethically challenged."

Some people don't realize that a persons integrity is a valid characteristic to be scrutinized when you are considering someone to be the president.

I'm sure, since she was one of three out of 100's, that means there was a vast media conspiracy against her.

Hillary is a fighter, some say. I'd sure grant that. The problem is, she is a dumb fighter, she knows only to fight and fight with everyone around, including her own party, her fellow democrats and everyone. It ain't getting you anywhere folks. She will bury us all in November with her attitude and approach that are seeped in old Washington politics.

Will, with the same poker analogy, the game still isn't over. Many cards have not been dealt yet, and if one candidate see's even a slim chance of winning, why should he/she quit. This contest will be decided by delegates at the convention, so neither Hillary or Barack will have enough pledged delegates. Why should either quit just because the other one wants them to?
If you are a Hillary supporter Barack is pulling the party down, if you are an Obama supporter Hillary is pulling the party down. I think it should be played all the way out. Hillary has nothing to lose at this point. I wonder though, does OBama?

Will, I am a professional poker player.
You also have to know when to bluff, and when you opponent is bluffing. You see, in poker, the best hand, is not necessarily the winning hand. Nerves of steel, calm under pressure etc... There are many more dimensions to poker. I have won and I have lost, but I NEVER quit until my last chip is played.
Great analogy btw....

Uh Oh, I hope you arent the one that has been paying my rent all this time. I am very aware of all the tactics involved in playing poker, and winning plenty of money. Sure, you never quit. That mentality is necessary. But, setting yourself and your party to fail is a no no. It's like showing the table you have a 7 - 2 offsuit, the other guy has a flush, no possible boat or straight flush showing, and you call an all-in because you think the dealer is going to muck the cards. Ok, I've seen that happen before but anyways. There willl be a point when Hillary has to back down. And I don't think she gets any points for waiting til the last minute to do so.

SuzieQ. So Hillary is flawed. You don't think Mr. Obama has his flaws? His racist church and minister who denounce white people, his association with William Ayers, Farrakhan, and slumlord and indicted criminal Tony Rezko. I think you will have to turn a blind eye to Mr.Obama if you think he is clean.

I tend to think that she should stay a Senator where she can propose legislation for her favorite causes.

I think she has too many ethics problems and character flaws, including being very divisive, to be President. She likes to destroy those who don't agree with her - for her that is "the fun part".

What is the clincher for me...she led the attacks on the women her husband used and abused. Maybe she thinks what she did was justified because of her great cause....but I disagree.

Cortez, I am a Hillary supporter , not a nut. So stop with the name calling. I gave you the link to make sure all the info was there , good and bad, you didn't mention, she was never convicted or found guilty or charged with anything from that era.
Hillary has her flaws, but at least I know exactly what they are. I can't say the same for Mr. Obama yet.

n poker, no saying can be more true then,

"You gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em!"

I respect someone with principals and acute understanding of the situation that they are in.

Stubbornness has it's place except when it is self-serving. This especially the case in politics.
_______________________________________
Will, I am a professional poker player.
You also have to know when to bluff, and when you opponent is bluffing. You see, in poker, the best hand, is not necessarily the winning hand. Nerves of steel, calm under pressure etc... There are many more dimensions to poker. I have won and I have lost, but I NEVER quit until my last chip is played.
Great analogy btw....

I just read the link to Hillary's achievement: 1. Rodham Clinton was accused of involvement in a failed savings and loan in Arkansas, during a 1994 investigation. The Clintons had partnered with the savings and loan owners, Jim and Susan McDougal, in a real estate venture known as Whitewater, while Rodham Clinton worked for the Rose Law Firm. Hillary’s billing records were subpoenaed for auditing purposes, but went missing for two years until they were discovered in the first lady’s book room.

2. Death of Vince Foster, childhood friend of Bill Clinton’s, and Hillary’s former Rose Law Firm colleague, was investigated in conjunction with Whitewater. Deputy White House counsel Foster was found dead in a Virginia park on July 20, 1993, and a suicide note, torn into many pieces, was discovered in his briefcase. Foster had been murdered.

There are so many more Hillary failures and controversies from the hyperlink, this Hillary nut sent me to read. But enough, I did not even touch Lewinsky and all that Clintons crap. Just sick of those 90s. Turn the page on the old Clintons.

Ok, I looked at the link you sent to someone else. It didn't mention that Hillary was one of 3 out of 100s of Watergate attorneys who was recommended at not for rehire by her supervisor, a Democrat, Jerry Zeiffman. He wrote a book about these events and Hillary is ethically challenged and lies.

So this link you had makes it look as though she had a big success there and she did not.

SuzieQ: This is a short list, but you get the idea.

Her first cause was children, fighting abuse, and chairing the Children's Defense Fund.
She began her career as a lawyer after graduating from Yale Law School in 1973.
following her career as a Congressional legal counsel; she was named the first female partner at Rose Law Firm in 1979 and was listed as one of the one hundred most influential lawyers in America in 1988 and 1991.
During 1974 she was a member of the Nixon impeachment inquiry staff in Washington D.C., advising the House Committee on the Judiciary during the Watergate scandal. She helped research procedures of impeachment and the historical grounds and standards for impeachment.
Hillary co-founded the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, a state-level alliance with the Children's Defense Fund, in 1977.
In late 1977, President Jimmy Carter appointed her to the board of directors of the Legal Services Corporation.

She was the First Lady of Arkansas from 1979 to 1981 and 1983 to 1992, and was active in a number of organizations concerned with the welfare of children, and was on the board of Wal-Mart and several other corporate boards.
Bill Clinton appointed her chair of the Rural Health Advisory Committee where she successfully obtained federal funds to expand medical facilities in Arkansas' poorest areas without affecting doctors' fees.
One of the most important initiatives of the entire Clinton governorship, she fought a prolonged but ultimately successful battle against the Arkansas Education Association to put mandatory teacher testing as well as state standards for curriculum and classroom size in place.
She introduced Arkansas' Home Instruction Program for Preschool Youth in 1985, a program that helps parents work with their children in preschool preparedness and literacy.
As First Lady of the United States she took a very prominent role in public policy.
She was the initial first lady to hold a post-graduate degree and to have her own professional career up to the time of entering the White House. She was also the initial first lady to take up an office in the West Wing of the White House.
She fought hard for Universal Health Care as First Lady, although it wasn't successful, it's something she learned from.

She visited over 80 countries as First Lady giving important speeches, about such controversial topics as human rights/women's rights in China.

Her major initiative, the Clinton Health Care Plan, failed to gain approval by the Congress in 1994, but in 1997 she helped establish the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) and the Adoption and Safe Families Act.
As a Senator and after the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, Hillary worked with her colleagues to secure the funds New York needed to recover and rebuild.
She fought to provide compensation to the families of the victims, grants for hard-hit small businesses, and health care for front line workers at Ground Zero.
She is the first New Yorker ever to serve on the Senate Armed Services Committee.
She has visited troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and in countless other locations, truly understanding the challenges facing our troops.
Hillary passed legislation to track the health status of our troops so that conditions like Gulf War Syndrome would no longer be misdiagnosed.
She is an original sponsor of legislation that expanded health benefits to members of the National Guard and Reserves and has been a strong critic of the Administration's handling of Iraq.
She has introduced legislation to tie Congressional salary increases to an increase in the minimum wage.
She has supported a variety of middle-class tax cuts, including marriage penalty relief, property tax relief, and reduction in the Alternative Minimum Tax, and supports fiscally responsible pay-as-you-go budget rules.
She helped pass legislation that encouraged investment to create jobs in struggling communities through the Renewal Communities program.
She authored legislation that has been enacted to improve quality and lower the cost of prescription drugs and to protect our food supply from bioterrorism.
She sponsored legislation to increase America's commitment to fighting the global HIV/AIDS crisis.
She has lead the fight for the expanded use of information technology in the health care system to decrease administrative costs, lower premiums, and reduce medical errors.
Clinton has successfully worked to ensure the safety of prescription drugs for children, with legislation now included in the Best Pharmaceuticals for Children Act.

She has also proposed expanding access to child care.

She has passed legislation that will bring more qualified teachers into classrooms and more outstanding principals to lead our schools.
Hillary is one of the original cosponsors of the Prevention First Act to increase access to family planning.
She fought with the Bush Administration and ensured that Plan B, an emergency contraceptive, will be available to millions of American women and will reduce the need for abortions.
She introduced the Count Every Vote Act of 2005 to ensure better protection of votes and to ensure that every vote is counted.

In poker, no saying can be more true then,

"You gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em!"

I respect someone with principals and acute understanding of the situation that they are in.

Stubbornness has it's place except when it is self-serving. This especially the case in politics.

Ok Cortez, I know you're just messing with us now, You don't really believe the CIC test is a booklet like the college SAT's OMG, please tell me you're kidding.

Could you say specifically what Hillary has accomplished i.e raise the status of Arkansas in education from 49th to 39th by changing policies such as ...........

I really would like to hear exactly what she has done - things that aren't disputed by others who were also involved like the Irish peace claims. I'm sure there must be some successes, I just don't know what they are.

Do any of the Hillary supporters have the test questions for CIC Test(commander-in-chief test mentioned by that moron Howard Wolfson and hillary). We want to know first whether Hillary has the IQ to pass any of that test without cheating?

SuzieQ. I appreciate someone who tried and doesn't quit or give up. Hillary's accomplishments outweigh her failures. Mr. Obama hasn't made many mistakes because quite honestly, he really hasn't done very much in his Senate job, well, except run for President. I admire Hillary for working hard every day of her life for the American people.

I think Hillary deserves credit for failing on her number one priority which was to revamp heath care and we're all lucky she did fail because her plan would have destroyed our health care system.

She also deserves credit for blowing her inevitable nomination and a huge stash of other people's money. Apparently she was stunned to find out the campaign was broke despite getting weekly emails detailing the campaign's financial status.

She also deserves credit for talking her husband out of settling with Paula Jones - which led to Bill's impeachment.

And of course, it was Al Gore's fault, hot Hillary's that she didn't even come close to delivering on her campaign promise to provide 200k jobs for NY.

Hillary does have a lot of experience and I hope the majority have the good sense to take a look at it.

Jay

"Well then, we can always agree to disagree. Good luck with the new Florida mail-in voting."

I am positive Hillary wins Florida. I know Floridians very well. But, I am certain the results will work out well for Obama. At this point, I am willing to gamble that Obama wins the nomination. Though, I think the contention with Hillary supporters is so high that neither would win against McCain.

"Obama doesn't have a prayer in the new Florida vote, but I respect your freedom of choice to vote for whomever you think is best.
I'll stick with Hillary."

Yeah I agree with you, I think I'll be wearing some Hillary paraphernalia on the day the results come out. It's a good thing for Obama that the delegates are awarded proportionally. Care to gamble that Obama's vote count will be higher then last time?

I want to pass the same respect to you for at least being involve in the political process. To bad it has to be so contentious.

Hillary is not a MONSTER. Some in her campaign are. They destroy both Hillary and Obama. Howard Wolfson, Mark Penn are the other leading monsters. Soon, they will also be sent out by Clintons, for not helping Hillary to win. It's just a matter of time...When you are in a quicksand swamp-whole, no matter how hard the head fights and shakes, you just sink more. That is the law of nature. Hillary is the loser.

Well then, we can always agree to disagree. Good luck with the new Florida mail-in voting. Obama doesn't have a prayer in the new Florida vote, but I respect your freedom of choice to vote for whomever you think is best.
I'll stick with Hillary.

Jay I was beginning to think I'd be wrong about you. I was waiting for this response.

"Sorry Will, I don't see where my opinion was false. I provided links as you requested, and I did not misrepresent them in my opinion. Of course you as a fervent Obama supporter can slant things any way you wish, the same with the Hillary supporters. I am just throwing this information out there for the sake of conversation. You sound more and more like someone who is a paid Obama staffer. Well, Are you?"

To answer your question, no I am not an Obama staffer, nor have I voted for him. Yet that is. I didnt vote in the Florida primaries as I was aware of the rules that were agreed upon before the election.

Now I have already pointed out how you misrepresented him in saying that Hillary was extending an olive branch by offering a joint ticket and saying Obama doesnt think his supporters will vote for her. To be accurate, Obama is not opposed to Hillary being the VP. Just like Hillary isnt opposed to having Obama as VP...or at least now for both of them. Your statement earlier was misleading as well as some of your other posts because it didnt represent the scenario you were presenting accurately. He doesnt believe Hillary will get his votes just like Hillary believes she will get more votes then him against McCain. See, I asked for the links because the context was important in trying to figure out why you were comparing Hillary talking about joint tickets vs Obama talking about his supporters votes. I don't think I can convince you otherwise, so forget it.

Ironically enough, it is Obama and the Obama campaign who have been strategically divisive from the start.

And I am sick of it.

Who is the only one campaigning who is not part of the "politics of the past"?

Obama. Isn't that convenient for him?

I happen to want the most qualified candidate with national experience, someone who has proven they can actually do all the things Obama says.

Someone who deserves to be given credit for all her experience and qualifications, and would be give that credit if she were a man.

We are heading for our politics of the future. We are a progressive party. The Democratic party always has been the party of hope and change - most of our slogans throughout the years have been about hope and change. No one owns hope and change besides us.

I am happy Barack is in our national politics - he will be even more qualified after he has more national experience.

But he is not our most qualified candidate at this time.

We are all moving towards the politics of the future. Belittling our most qualified candidate as being part of the 'politics of the past' is just a substandard, dismissive strategy. Hillary started to organize to help children of migrant families when she was a teenager. She became involved in public service for the very reasons of hope, change, and unity. You can read about it in her Graduation speech from Vassar:

“We are, all of us. . . . searching for a more immediate, ecstatic, and penetrating mode of living. . . . for the integrity, the courage to be whole, living in relation to one another in the full poetry of existence. The struggle for an integrated life existing in an atmosphere of communal trust and respect is one with desperately important political and social consequences. . . .

That's what she has been working for all her life. She is our most qualified candidate.

Lauren, Bush - and his people have definitely gotten us into this financial mess. I don't know that Hillary is going to be able to get us out, because a lot of that wealth was based on the dot.com bubble, but I think McCain, Clinton and Obama all have more sense than Bush - you can't cut taxes and raise spending.

Jay - I saw your link, and Obama did say just what you said he did (that it was not clear that his supporters would follow Hillary). Thanks.

True Niels:
They both seem to have a big problem in that department.

Jay,
I see no grounds for calling Obama 'terribly divisive'. When it comes to dividing, I'd have to give Clinton the edge after the last couple of weeks. But it takes two to tango.

Sorry Will, I don't see where my opinion was false. I provided links as you requested, and I did not misrepresent them in my opinion. Of course you as a fervent Obama supporter can slant things any way you wish, the same with the Hillary supporters. I am just throwing this information out there for the sake of conversation. You sound more and more like someone who is a paid Obama staffer. Well, Are you?

I want our most qualified canidate, who is Hillary, and this is why:

I know many people who are college educated and with advanced degrees who support Hillary. I am one of them.

But I have also been an idealist more than a materialist, and now in this ecomony I am one of Americans who literally cannot financially afford to wait while such a new administration full of the unknown and inexperience gets it's act together.

I want the most efficient administration possible.

I do want someone was involved in the last Clinton administration, and knows first-hand about all of the changes they made which helped the economy, to make it one of the most socio-economically successful we've ever had.

In the debates, it was obvious that Hillary is both the most knowledgeable and qualified. That is what I want.

Mara, Bill's administration was the most socio-economically successful we have ever had.

It's Bush, and his administration's policies that have gotten us in this mess.

Jay,

I don't doubt Obama rejecting the idea of campaigning for VP. I could probably find 100 links of that. But, that wasnt what you stated in a previous post. Im simply pointing out how you are confusing and misrepresenting Obama. At the very least, be fair with what you have to say. People may agree with you, but it doesnt help your argument if it is false.

It was a comment I had quoted from someone else Leslie, but you got me there..lol

Someone once identified himself with John F. Kennedy, to which another public servant replied: "I knew John F. Kennedy and you are not him."

Ms. Ferraro, those of us who know Barack Obama can tell you to your face that you are not now, nor ever have been him. His message is one of hope. Yours is a message of divisiveness.

Yesterday was Ferraro.

Obama is Tomorrow.

I would say yes...she is not a racist...and neither are the Clintons...but it is hard to either think they are ...well, dumb for making the statements (and she was at an event drilling up support for Sen Clinton so i am hard pressed to believe the interview tonight where she said, I was praising the event of him being black and that he is the nominee on the FOX broadcast)...

It is either that or worse (and I am not one of those saying it is but if it is not plain old stupid then) it is tactical.

She did On Feb. 26, “If Barack Obama were a white man, would we be talking about this, as a potential real problem for Hillary? If he were a woman of any color, would he be in this position that he’s in? Absolutely not.”

She said absolutely not.

So she was discounting every other quality and saying the fact that he is black is the reason he is there...

I know I know black people are voting for him...do you think that is outweighed by the racism that exists in other voters?

If he were white and saying the message he has said, if he hadn't been the freakiin President of the Harvard law review ...not just the "first black President of the harvard Law review" but just the President of the Haravard Law review...hadn't taught constituional law...hadn't touched young people with the idea of hope that we could get rid of this negative politics...

His being black is an attribute which no doubt gives him an extra sense of the America that i do not know...

but he has 11 years in legislature...he gave up a huge opportunity to work with high powered attorney positions and firms and government to work for laid off workers in factory closings in chicago...

He's a snappy dresser...he's charming...

I think if he was white he may have done better.

That is the one thing that is getting lost in all this. Take him down on something but to say the biggest reason he has achieved this is because he is black...is from a simple mind...or a not-so-nice one.

I hope it is just simpleton stuff.

I find Jay's comment interesting. That "no white man with a tepid professional history would be seriously considered for president." Take a look at your current president.

Anyway, political opinion is all semantics if anything Will.
I can show you 50 headline links where OBama says , I will not be Hillary's VP, and then he tries to humiliate her on a tirade about how dare she even ask him when he is the front runner and he has more votes, states, and delegates. Mr. Obama's ego will be the one thing that has the potential to bring him down.

You quite welcome Niels. I also agree with you. Obama is terribly divisive, he is just much more sneaky about it.

From the looks of some of the comments on here, not to mention those of Miss Ferraro, we seem to be going back to the dark ages. Some posters actually agreed with Ferraro, while some others couldn't figure out why what she said was wrong.

Maybe it is the fault of the education system in this country.

Then a poster said she knew nothing about Obama, but will vote for Clinton. In the age of the Internet it is hard to believe that ANYONE would choose to vote for someone that has a pending trial for Election fraud. Only escaped convictions on several very serious charges as first lady, because Witnesses kept coming up dead only days before they were to appear in court.

But you don't have the time to check out Barack Obama? Watch the replay of his life story on MSNBC and use the Internet to do a little investigating.

Jay, I'm interested in that quote from Obama too. If you have it, give it up. If you don't - just admit it - you don't have to go on the attack - nobody's gonna arrest you.

And Spock? I don't think there is anyone alive who believes that Mr. Bush has one of the most powerful minds in the world. I don't even think Mr. Bush would believe that one. I don't think Karl Rove is a genius, either. I just think he's a completely ruthless pol, who helped to elect a President who has destroyed our economy and got us into a war that has cost us at least $2 Trillion dollars so we can help Iraq set up an Islamic government.

I also believe that people like Bush/Rove and Hillary/Penn pretend to be people like my family during election years - honest Americans who have worked all their lives and never had much to show for it. And I believe that they use decent Americans during election years. After the elections are over - the "jugheads" as Penn calls us are all forgotten, our kids are fighting to build Islamic states, we have no health care and our jobs are in India or in China. I'm ready for change. If you're not, my guess is that you're pretty comfortable and don't have much to worry about.

Thanks, Jay. I agree with you on that one. Such comments only serve to divide.

Jay...

"You see Will, belief and actual facts are two different things. What you believe about me is basically your opinion or determination. It has no bearing on who I really am or what I am about."

First, thank you for providing this link. I needed the information in the original context as the statement you were making is misleading. Now, I don't know what you are ranting on about above, I would hope you don't blog for the purposes of getting acceptance as I am not one to give it. I'm merely pointing out the fact that you have managed to misrepresent Obama's stance on topics. Namely this one. You say Hillary is extending an olive branch as if to say Obama has taken the stance not to offer Hillary a possible VP slot. He has maintained a stance on it being premature to talk about who's going to be the VP as well as saying Hillary would be on anyones list for VP. However you want to paint a counter argument with a different quote in a different context. There are numbers that cannot be ignored. I do think it's possible that more people have been engaged in politics because of the failed policies of the Bush administration. But there are people that are voting that have historically not participated in politics. Are you denying this? Is this not worth anything?

"Same thing in politics. It is our perception of our preferred candidate's that make up believe in them, and allow us to believe they are telling the truth and want what is best for us. Is it always accurate in reality? Probably not."

True.

I think also when Sen. Obama said that he was referring not so much to Democrats ...he was referring to the fact he gets more independents and legitimate cross-overs (not the Rush kind)...

He said that in a general Dems would vote for either of them...until this got nasty...

Thank you kitchen sink.

Unfortunately now I can't vote for someone whose campaign has been so seemingly about her attempt to wrestle the position from her own team. It would be hard for me to vote for the campaign it has become and the exact opposite of why I vote dem...because we are the good guys...not the republicans.

You can call me a wimp, getangry and say Obama was first to start this (which I highly refute), throw out all the reasons this statement isn't fair...but it's how I feel...and I started out helping the Clinton Campaign a year ago here in New Hampshire.

1st: Geraldine Ferrero, like the Clintons, is not racist - they all have committed much of their work as Democrats to Civil Rights and helping minorities. Funny how opposing campaigns like to jump on quotes and take them out of the context of lifetimes, and make them racist.

Geraldine Ferraro is furiously angry at being accused of being racist.

She was not saying that race is the only reason why Barack is where he is - she was only noting how race has actually benefited Barack in being where he is.

It can benefit him with some Democrats -
it may not benefit him as much with some Republicans.

She was just observing reality.

I think obama said that he wasn't sure that Hillary would get all the votes he would get...if she were the nominee but before she started attacking him in Ohio, etc... He would get her votes predominantly...

but I think the length of this campaign has put an end to that.

Good thing someone threw that kitchen sink, huh? No matter whether they had their own kitchen sinks staying against the wall... why is it Edwards people could have fought on and they didn't? ...I mean they could have fought and won maybe. I mean when he got out he still had a little money and what were they saying the odds were 30/70 he could do it...
That is a question I would love to see him asked.

You see Will, belief and actual facts are two different things. What you believe about me is basically your opinion or determination. It has no bearing on who I really am or what I am about.

Same thing in politics. It is our perception of our preferred candidate's that make up believe in them, and allow us to believe they are telling the truth and want what is best for us. Is it always accurate in reality? Probably not.

Jay,
do you also have a link for this part of your comment:

'He however made a statement that he is quite confident that his supporters will never vote for Hillary.'

?

Kevin - what about when someone says his middlename, what about when Bill said Obama's stance was a fairytale! Obama's response was playing the race card!
And dont say someelse responded it was Obama thru his surrogates.

...and I think it really was about her attitude and second and third statements that made it so bad. "Reverse racism?!"

I'm white, what is she talking about.