Elizabeth Edwards vs. John McCain on Health Care

thanks, geevil

dl,
i did not distort either did i. ...in the eye of the beholder...

fedup

I didn't distort anything ...but that is how this conversation always goes...
like talking to my father who is always on his heels ready to protect his argument for bombing the whole middle east... and can't break out of it.

my post was for dl

Wright and his $1.6 Million home and $10 million line of credit. Don't try to insult us by making him out to be a war hero uncle of Obama.

In an interview on "Morning Joe" this morning, Elizabeth stated that only Hillary's healthcare plan will cover everyone and be truly universal. She pointed out that Obama's plan to lower costs is fatally flawed since it doesn't demand that everyone be covered. In other words, Hillary has the superior plan. Which I guess the voters of Massachusetts (who have universal healthcare) knew when they gave Hillary the win in their state (even though popular Senators Kennedy and Kerry were stumping for Obama). But of course, MA also has Deval Patrick, another "hope and change" candidate from the mind of David Axelrod.

you can distort and justify your feelings all you want. that does not make you right or on some higher moral plane. you can try to blame all the problems in the black community on the government..sometime blacks need to begin pulling themselves up and not wait for someone else. all the other issues have spanned many, many, administrations. not just one. bho words may sound good to some, but there are all fluff and no substance, as is he. we will never agree on these issues. the party will suffer, as will the country. bho should have known he needed more experience/exposure to run for president. he has won on the black vote. that will not save him in november.

and geevil if you scroll down I wrote about this issue and the effects of a mandated healthcare plan...

...the primary numbers I posted are in response to a Clinton supporter once again trying to take the ball off this issue that is not going to work in her favor... trying to get a mandated universal healthcare package for the entire population in a system where medicare is the worst coverage you can get right now, a polarized congress passing it, and an economy on the backs of blue collar people who can't have the weight of mandates put on them from their salaries in the midst of a huge bureaucratic ovehaul...people that can't afford this type of policy right now. It is about cost and feasibility.

But you can tell the difference between people who have the experience of struggling in a just below middle class level and those who don't.

fedup...rev. Wright is more like an ex vietnam vet who has misplaced anger than a kkk guy and most Americans know that...

I keep saying to people like you if you went to a church where the Rev was a white vietnam vet and he saw his fellow vets living under overpasses and struggling in lower income jobs going nowhere because of the government, their kids not being able to pull themselves out of the lower income bracket because of the poverty effects...being succumbed to drugs being called liars because of their claims of Agent Orange...for the way the government ignored them...

and this Reverend got up and said "G.D. America" ... on occasion because he was angry that his brothers and sister were treated that way... but his church and his sermons were 90% incredibly positive to your community...

would you leave? I think a good person can understand it and fight against that anger in their own speeches and campaigns.

...and Geevil as I have said and most of America gets (including most republicans) Sen Clintons lists(and we won't go there again...we won't be dragged back down there) are much longer than Sen Obamas when it comes to scandals that the Republicans can use...so if you are going to keep trying to use that because Sen. Clinton's nomination doesn't win on much else... that is a loser for everyone involved.

The numbers are well in favor of Obama and so is almost every issue.

dl,
if you google hillary and her work in the senate(by the way she was re-elected by over 60%) you will see the long list of accomplishment, bills introcuced etc. compare that to all bho list of "presents". there is no comparison. and, again, bho supporters are forgetting a 20 year association bho had with wright, and to a lesser degree, rezko(sp), farrakhan, et al. this is quickly passed off as..."he did not say it". if a white fellow had been in the kkk for one year, and had even missed meetings you wouls be calling for their instant withdrawal for their racist hateful associations. well? what is the difference.
and "look at your candidate", and his wife("this is the first time i have been proud to be an american).
"take a breath and look at what bho has done for this country.
if you are pulling bill into this, google his presidency and its accomplishments. it is page after page. try it.
AND, i will vote for mccain. it is a done deal in my head. i have even asked his campaign, should hillary not get the nomination to put out shirts and bumper stickers saying,"Clinton supporter fo McCain".
the bho supporters have made it personal. i will vote for anyone but bho. i do not trust him as far as i can throw him.

I also don't think people realize that Obamas numbers in many of the primaries alone were in many cases twice that as McCain....so if those statistical numbers fairly hold even if half of Sen Clintons voters don't vote... we still win...because of independents...

the opposite is not true...if you look at on a state by state basis... it is all about margins...margins margins margins.

Sen. Clinton has very few states that aren't pretty close to a "tie" with Obama.

Good to hear Alice "We are are the ones we have been waiting for" Walker has chimed in with her white privledge nonsense. But isn't her endorsement redundant considering Oprah already did it.

Fedup

You are not looking clearly at your candidate...

She doesn't deserve that kind of loyalty (she is public office she had to fight for something...the question is why did she, was she effective and was she effective at the cost of the rest of her party and other issues that we need taken care of?) She also not only doesn't deserve that kind of loyalty (because she is not that loyal ...thank you Michigan, Florida,(who only get her attention after it only mattered to her), the people who lost their jobs from NAFTA, those who voted for jobs in northern NewYork that she promised, and the troops) matched with that kind of vitriol for her opponent...

Not to be condescending but you have to take a breath and look at who these candidates really are. Remove what I say or the others...look at what the Clintons really meant to this country. Look if you are actually voting for her because of what she truly stands for or because she is a familiar face from when we ran the white house.

I don't think you will vote for McCain at a time when the supreme court can go against Roe vs. Wade or our economy is so bad and there is talk of "world recession" and even depression. I think independents are more apt to do that.

Their are two problems with this discussion...

McCain's stinks because of leaving out pre-existing conditions...

but Edwards needs to understand that medicare is the worst medical coverage you can get...because you are covering so many with pre-existing conditions...

In a mandated coverage one of two things will happen... the individual price of things may be reduced a little ... but the comaprative and predominant weight of a proportional mandate system with pre-existing conditions will fall squarely on those individuals who are middle to slightly lower-middle class...slightly/lower middle class people are drowning and the surcharge/mandate/claim on wages is not going to help alleviate those problems unless it is teamed with a huge focus on costs...
If you are paying for every American and trying to come out of the system we have medical care quality will plummet.

In the medicare system the paperwork and lack of oversight has caused it to be the worst system with the worst care...ask any doctor or medical billing professional... you can not make that kind of jump.

So with these systems ...with a divided nation on this issue you are going to end up with a tax/mandate thingy for every American and an entirely new bureaucracy created from scratch... through congress... oy... it is about cost!!!!

We need universal healthcare but the transition has to focus on cost 1st. To implement a "medicare" type system has to take years and years... from the system we have now... and if you do it the Edwards way (and they obviously have never been on the side of struggling while working (and neither has Clinton...)

Look at Massachusetts...talk to the people who have gotten hit by the mandates... and the bureaucracy in a state that has tons of healthcare at it's fingertips. think how you are going to implement that in states where that doesn't exist.

To try and mandate a government mandated program is a nightmare from where we stand. and this comes from someone who has gone through long periods of time in my life where I did not have coverage because I could not afford it...but if you had taken more of my salary...I would have been homeless abnd a tax rebate would not have mattered.

Two-cats...I was a little confused when you said Hillary had experience. This seems to be a theme with a lot of people. Is that experience from dodging bullets in Bosnia? Or was that from being first lady and attending meetings and concerts with Sheryl Crow and Sinbad...? Then you said lets get "new" politics...Hillary certainly isn't a new name....

ANOTHERCAT....think about what you blogged when you vote in Nov...no matter who the nominee ends up being

Last pokk I saw, 2/3rds of Democrats thought Obama would stand a better chance of beating McCain. That's called a cue..."

The polls are vastly influence by media's manipulation of public perception. You can't take the Democratic electorate's opinion about who's more likely to win when they've been programmed 24/7 by pro-Obama media to say that. Particularly where you have media outlets like the Post that publish only polls that are in Obama's favor, but skip any that show Clinton ahead. Thus, we get a blast of media attention to Obama's popularity when he's ahead, but when he falls behind, we don't hear it. That's how we get such a distorted picture of who's likely to win, like New Hampshire and in the run-up to Ohio and Texas (and I don't want to hear about the Texas caucus, either, as far as I'm concerned all that caucus did was prove decisively that Obama wins caucuses where the electorate itself would vote for Clinton in private, general polling).

Rather than look at the polls of what public perception (which is easily manipulated) about Obama's chances are, look at the electorate voting itself. Obama has a very thin lead, most of it built up during a time before the media was forced to publish some stories about his negatives. Most of it was built up in caucus wins where Obama will not only not win in a general election against a Republican, but wouldn't win against Clinton if the privacy and convenience of voting booths were used instead of caucuses.

It is nice to see Elizabeth getting recognition for her own work. I hope Edwards joins the Obama team.

This is one issue on which Clinton and Obama agree: That Americans with pre-existing illnesses will be able to have truly affordable health insurance. McCain, on the other hand, is living in Fantasyland. He mistakenly thinks that less government regulation is somehow going to miraculously make profit-driven insurance companies start offering affordale health care plans to everyone. Delusional.

Kerry, I like everything you say except that you will vote for McCain. McCain will carry on Bush's war and further drive our economy into the ditch. He may be a good man, but he is a mistaken man whose political views are right wing and destructive. He will continue Bush's tax cuts which have benefitted the wealthy while actually and drastically hurting the little guy.
I want Hillary to be the nominee because I think she is the wiser, the more experienced, the more hard-working, and, yes, even the better speaker because she covers the issues. Obama inspires but Hillary impresses. However, if Obama is the nominee, I wouldn't even consider voting for McCain. The Republicans have demonstrated their incompetence for the last 8 years. Please, let's give America a good long rest from these politicians who can't seem to do anything right.