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In Oregon, Clinton Makes False Claim About Her Iraq Record Vs. Obama's

April 06, 2008 9:49 AM

In Eugene, Ore., Saturday. Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., attempted to change the measure by which anyone might assess who criticized the Iraq war first, her or Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., by saying those keeping records should start in January 2005, when Obama joined the Senate. (A measure that conveniently avoids her October 2002 vote to authorize use of force against Iraq at a time that Obama was speaking out against the war.) She claimed that using that measure, she criticized the war in Iraq before Obama did.

But Clinton's claim was false.

Clinton on Saturday told Oregonians, "when Sen. Obama came to the Senate he and I have voted exactly the same except for one vote. And that happens to be the facts. We both voted against early deadlines. I actually starting criticizing the war in Iraq before he did."

It's an odd way to measure opposition to the war -- comparing who gave the first criticism of the war in Iraq starting in January 2005, ignoring Obama's opposition to the war throughout 2003 and 2004. (And Clinton's vote for it.)

But even if one were to employ this "Start Counting in January 2005" measurement, Clinton did not criticize the war in Iraq first.

Scrambling to support their boss's claim, Clinton campaign officials pointed to a paper statement Clinton issued on Jan. 26, 2005, explaining her vote to confirm Condoleezza Rice as Secretary of State.

"The Administration and Defense Department's Iraq policy has been, by any reasonable measure, riddled with errors, misstatements and misjudgments," the January 2005 Clinton statement said. "From the beginning of the Iraqi war, we were inadequately prepared for the aftermath of the invasion with too few troops and an inadequate plan to stabilize Iraq."

But Obama offered criticisms of the war in Iraq eight days before that, directly to Rice, in his very first meeting as a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Jan. 18.

Obama pushed Rice on her answers to previous questioners regarding the effectiveness of Iraqi troops, and he criticized the administration for conveying a never-ending commitment to a US troop presence in Iraq.

"I am concerned about this notion that was pursued by Senator Biden and others that we've made significant progress in training troops," Obama told Rice "Because it seems to me that in your response to Senator Alexander that we will not be able to get our troops out absent the Iraqi forces being able to secure their own country, or at least this administration would not be willing to define success in the absence of such security. I never got quite a clear answer to Senator Biden's question as to how many troops -- Iraqi troops -- don't just have a uniform and aren't just drawing a paycheck, but are effective enough and committed enough that we would willingly have our own troops fighting side-by- side with them. The number of 120,000 you gave, I suspect, does not meet those fairly stringent criteria that Senator Biden was alluding to. I just want to make sure, on the record, that you give me some sense of where we're at now."

Obama concluded his brief q&a by saying "if our measure is bring our troops home and success is measured by whether Iraqis can secure their own circumstances, and if our best troops in the world are having trouble controlling the situation with 150,000 or so, it sounds like we've got a long way to go. And I think part of what the American people are going to need is some certainty, not an absolute timetable, but a little more certainty than is being provided, because right now, it appears to be an entirely open-ended commitment."

**

The misrepresentation of the record is symbolic of the re-writing of history Clinton has attempted on her record regarding the war in Iraq.

Because the larger context is more important. And Clinton's written criticism of the war in a press statement in January 2005 received little attention compared to the press surrounding her trip to Iraq the next month, in February 2005.

Upon returning she argued that setting a deadline for the withdrawal of U.S. troops would aid the enemy.

“I don’t think it’s useful to set a deadline because I think it sends a signal to the terrorists and the insurgents that they just have to wait us out,” she said.

Describing her trip to Iraq, she said, "It’s regrettable that the security needs have increased so much.  On the other hand, I think you can look at the country as a whole and see that there are many parts of Iraq that are functioning quite well."

She also interpreted a series of suicide bomb attacks as an indication that the insurgency was failing.

“The concerted effort to disrupt the elections was an abject failure," she said. "Not one polling place was shut down or overrun. The fact that you have these suicide bombers now, wreaking such hatred and violence while people pray, is to me, an indication of their failure.”

In an interview with NBC's Meet the Press on Feb. 20, 2005, Clinton said that withdrawing some troops or setting a date for withdrawal would be a "mistake."

"I don't believe we should tie our hands or the hands of the new Iraqi government," Clinton said. "We don't want to send a signal to the insurgents, to the terrorists that we are going to be out of here at some, you know, date certain."

"We have just finished meeting with the current prime minister, the deputy prime minister and the finance minister, and in our meetings, we posed the question to each of them as to whether they believed that we should set a firm deadline for the withdrawal of American troops," Clinton said. "To a person, and they are of different political parties in this election, but each of them said that would be a big mistake, that we needed to make clear that there is a transition now going on to the Iraqi government. When it is formed, which we hope will be shortly, it will assume responsibility for much of the security, with the assistance and cooperation of the coalition forces, primarily U.S. forces."

Clinton said that "what the American people need to know is, number one, we are very proud of our young men and women who are here," and second, "there can be no doubt that it is not in America's interests for the Iraqi government, the experiment in freedom and democracy, to fail. So I hope that Americans understand that and that we will have as united a front as is possible in our country at this time to keep our troops safe, make sure they have everything they need and try to support this new Iraqi government."

She soon told New York Daily News editors and reporters that it was important for Democrats to combat the idea that they're soft on national security issues like Iraq.

"If you can't persuade a majority of people that you're going to be strong and tough where we need to protect America and our [national] interests, you can't cross the [electoral] threshold," she said.

**

That same month, while Clinton was talking up the need for Democrats to project strength, and claiming a withdrawal deadline would be sending a signal to the terrorists, Obama was meeting with his constituents, sounding quite skeptical about the war and reiterating his opposition to the decision to go to war to begin with.

The Bloomington, Ill., Pantagraph reported that during a town hall meeting, asked about the Iraq war, "Obama said poor planning by the Bush administration has left Iraq woefully incapable of handling its own security. He expressed hope that more intensive training will be provided for Iraqi forces, saying such measures could allow most American troops to return home next year.   While Obama said the recent Iraqi election is an encouraging sign for democracy, he questioned Bush’s rationale for the Iraq invasion.  ’I didn’t see the weapons of mass destruction at the time, I didn’t think there was an imminent threat from Saddam Hussein.'"

Clinton made this latest questionable claim the same day that she came under fire for repeatedly telling a story that turned out not to be true about a poor pregnant woman losing her baby and her own life after being denied hospital treatment because she couldn't afford a $100 fee. The New York Times discovered that the woman in question was never denied treatment, and that she did have insurance. “We implore the Clinton campaign to immediately desist from repeating this story,” said a representative of the hospital.

The Clinton campaign said that the senator had been told the story by a sheriff's deputy, and had not been able to fully check its accuracy. "We did try but were not able to fully vet it,” Clinton campaign spokesman Mo Elleithee said. “If the hospital claims it did not happen that way, we respect that."

This latest incident also comes less than two weeks after Clinton had to back off a description of a plane landing during a 1996 trip to Bosnia that she had claimed was under sniper fire. Video evidence surfaced proving that claim false and Clinton admitted that she "misspoke."

- jpt

April 6, 2008 | Permalink | User Comments (680)

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I think she lies in her dreams!

Posted by: wave06 | May 3, 2008 8:22:12 AM

Clinton... a proven liar. Start way back with the Foster affair. Obama.... is the Pied Piper.... leading the children. Both support the policies, ultimately, of the Hegemony.... you know, the Empire. Many folks in the Empire live in a dreamland.... they still believe in the left-right paradigm. Somehow believing that their choice between 2 entries who were already chosen for them is democracy. They then get all caught up in the debate as to which middle manager would be better. Failing to realize that each potential and electable 'contester' has been truly vetted and accepted that folks who actually run this country. All the 'heat' above the epitome of naivete.

Posted by: medicis | Apr 21, 2008 9:33:10 PM

It doesn't matter whether Hillary lies or not about this tiny thing. People who say they will not vote Hillary will never vote Hillary. Doesn't matter if she does everything right in the past two years. I will not vote Obama for just the same.

Posted by: Nick | Apr 10, 2008 1:47:17 PM

Who cares about these detail....
I'll say this, both of them, Clinton and Obama have flaws. Whose flaws is worse, that depends on each person's personal preference. For me, Obama is worse. For some of you, Clinton is worse. In the end, whoever got nominated by the democratic party will probably not win in the general election. Why? Because, in the general election, I will not vote Obama, and the other group of people won't vote Hillary. Let this rolls and let's move on.

Posted by: Joe from OH | Apr 10, 2008 1:44:23 PM

Hillary lies and lies. Please open your eyes. She just wants to be president.

HILLARY SUCKS!!!!

Posted by: xcaliburo | Apr 9, 2008 10:48:20 AM

Thanks to the Hillary supporter who reminded us that she too, stooped to the lowest of the low by using the WTC tragedy as incentive to war on Iraq.

I live in NYC. We were all extremely upset that this tragedy on our home turf was used to goad America into an unwarranted war in Iraq. Hillary did not speak for the majority of New York City dwellers when she made that statement... she was clearly just moving to the right of the political spectrum to seem tougher in her upcoming run for president. Of the mainstream media, Maureen Dowd was the only person to call her out on this.

Hillary didn't even bother to read the intelligence report before making her decision, because it wasn't about our country for her, it was about her political prospects. Now, we have lost more than
4,000 US soldiers.

News flash: Bin Laden has never been in Iraq this whole time! Our soldiers were sent to the wrong theatre entirely, and Clinton was beating the war drum for reasons of personal advancement!

This is the kind of person you want in charge of the country? She has no conception of public service!

Posted by: GaiaGal in NYC | Apr 9, 2008 6:43:36 AM

I rather vote for Hillary the someone who hang around with a Pastor screaming "God Damn America" plus he can not even have the courage to wear the American flag on his lapel.

Vote for Hillary! Do the right thing.

Do not be mad or jeaous because they made $109 million in seven years. Oprah makes abut $260 million a year, I said a year!!

Posted by: JT | Apr 8, 2008 3:33:04 PM

Obama is distorting himself.

He just making speeches.

Try to dig deeper on what he is saying and you will conclude with "what is this guy talking about?"

Hillary is better...

Posted by: jT | Apr 8, 2008 3:18:57 PM

Pathological LIAR!

Posted by: Geldo | Apr 8, 2008 8:48:56 AM

Could you possibly have a more dishonest account of whether Hillary criticized the war in Iraq before Obama?

I defy any objective person to look at the milquetoasty comments Obama made, and compare them to the hard hitting criticism Hillary made just days later, and pretend that both deserve the name of "criticism".

This isn't journalism. This is a hit job. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Posted by: frankly0 | Apr 8, 2008 8:34:58 AM

Whatcha gonna do when Obamamania runs wild on you?!?

Posted by: Goldenarm | Apr 8, 2008 5:57:18 AM

People!!! an act continuously done becomes a habit and habits forms character. That said, how does anyone expect Senator Clinton not to double speak or say some thing out of context. During the California or Texas debate, that same matter was put forth to Senator Obama. He said if a person runs a vehicle into a ditch by making bad decisions after ignoring sound advices, the only alternative is to find the best solution to get out of the ditch, and that may require you to side with the initial decision maker. So with the soldiers already in Iraq, as an American Senator, his responsibility was to ensure they receive the proper equipment etc. by appropriately voting in favor of proper funding to that end. Had Senator Obama voted against funding for the soldiers, Senator Clinton would say he does not care seen they are already there. The initial vote to send the soldiers to war and the vote to keep them properly equip are to different considerations. Senator Clinton is a classic, do as I say but don't do as I do. In a sense she is right, If one should do as she has, we may all have to tell many BOSNIAN TYPE SNIPER STORY or we have to teach our children that it is okay to break rules if they needs it to benefit them. God bless American may there be a truthful president sworn into office on January, 2009.

Posted by: Donald, Toronto | Apr 8, 2008 5:40:23 AM

She got a ten million advance on
her book. The publisher probably lost
all of it.

I don't think anyone posting here can even name the title of that book.

WJC getting 100K to 400K per inconsequential hot air speech makes no sense either.

Posted by: anon | Apr 8, 2008 3:12:52 AM

Why isn't there an article about how Obamahas lied not only about a couple of incidents, but about his whole career as a "civil rights" lawyer. According to his bosses in the law firm of Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Gallard, Obama was doing the work that any first or second year associatedo. In litigation he was doing basic research and writing memos" He actually only participated in one case of civil rights. Why ABC does not dig a little bit on this?

Posted by: libre | Apr 8, 2008 2:00:06 AM

The title of this article does not match with several facts in the article. Obama gives a speech against the war, then is later asked when he is in the Senate would he have voted against the war. He declines to say either way and acknowledges he did not have all the information that the Senators who voted did. Then he support Kerry and Edwards in 2004 who both voted for the Iraq resolution. And he continues to vote to fund the war. When he meets with Rice, there are a few questions about the war, but nothing that tells me that he wants to end the war. In fact, it is so vague maybe he reversed his opinion by this time. Hillary is entitled to tell voters that within the Senate she was voiced her issues with the continuance of the war before Obama. From the evidence in this article, it appears she is correct.

Posted by: Lynn | Apr 8, 2008 1:25:26 AM

The church is "unashamedly black" and it's commitments are to the black community and Africa. That leaves a lot of people that live in this country out of the equation. Obama can't claim to be a uniter when he's been a member of that separatist church for 20 years. His actions, or inabilities, speak much louder than his words.

Posted by: Mack | Apr 8, 2008 1:24:10 AM

Hillary is a saint in comparison--
Mack did you lose your house or how’s your stock market saving doing? You must love the gas prices and the prices at the stores for food. How many more American’s solder will die because Bush decide to attack the wrong country. He is opening our border to more illegal and undesirable, 14 million and growing! Good job Mack keep voting for those that are destroying our country ---NO SPINS just FACTS>

Posted by: ghm | Apr 8, 2008 1:23:34 AM

The title of this article does not match with several facts in the article. Obama gives a speech against the war, then is later asked when he is in the Senate would he have voted against the war. He declines to say either way and acknowledges he did not have all the information that the Senators who voted did. Then he support Kerry and Edwards in 2004 who both voted for the Iraq resolution. And he continues to vote to fund the war. When he meets with Rice, there are a few questions about the war, but nothing that tells me that he wants to end the war. In fact, it is so vague maybe he reversed his opinion by this time. Hillary is entitled to tell voters that within the Senate she was voiced her issues with the continuance of the war before Obama. From the evidence in this article, it appears she is correct.

Posted by: Lynn | Apr 8, 2008 1:22:13 AM

This country is not about a flag, it is about a citizens right to burn that flag in protest. It is the right of a person to get up and put forth an opinion that you totally disagree with and would fight with all your breath against. That is what America is about, that is what we should celebrate.

Rev. Wright's church embraces rich, poor, black, Hispanic. His church has helped persons with AIDS, who are homeless, without food, without jobs. He has been an inspiration in that community and until you can go to his church and hear him preach or at least listened to his entire sermon then you have no business judging him AND if you are truly a Christian you would know that.

Posted by: rhbate | Apr 8, 2008 1:17:36 AM

I wish they stop thinking were really that stupid!
I was a major player in Ireland at a tea party; I dodge sniper fire with a little girls poem! I have no active lobbyists in team; I will not be bought by the lobbyist’s money that the fat cats are giving me at 3 am in the morning. I was always against NAFTA. ETC ETC ETC!!!
But Hillary is in the minor league in comparison to Bush and the Republicans – The biggest and worst liars ever ever, they are really the ones that do lies on a grand scale. They learned from the Nazi - that saying it over and over make it true. And if you should disagree they reply by screaming at you or calling you unpatriotic. Even after he destroyed our rights and our economy, Republicans are so dumb that. 30 % still love Bush, and 12 % swear Obama is a Muslim! God help Them!

Posted by: GHM | Apr 8, 2008 1:04:37 AM

In the Political Headlines of ABC. Clinton is named 5 times. Obama once. Fair ?

Posted by: Kurt | Apr 8, 2008 12:43:18 AM

The science department of a prestigious California university has devised a method to determine if Hillary is lying or not. It was field-tested and determined to be 100% accurate. Because of this accuracy, the inventors have been awarded the Nobel Prize in Mendacity Determination. The test works like this: If Hillary's lips are moving, she is lying.

Posted by: rhbate | Apr 8, 2008 12:43:04 AM

This so-called "lie" is going to be true too. After all, Hillary was in an official capacity. Her letter meant something. His was a campaign tactic.

Here's a song for BHO to sing in honor of Wright. Envision Obama, taking the advice of his mentor, his hand on his heart:
"God, d--mn America,
Land that I hate.
Undermine her
Condemn her
May the voters
All take the bait.
From the lefties
At the caucuses
To the college girls, white ones too!
God d--mn America,
And Grandma too!"

Posted by: james4Hill | Apr 8, 2008 12:31:22 AM

I wouldn't count her out yet. I'm just waiting for the video of the Obamas' dancing in the aisle while pastor Wright delivered one of his hate sermons. It's out there somewhere.

Posted by: Mack | Apr 7, 2008 11:12:41 PM

Clinton is entering the "dementia praecox" phase of her campaign, one during which the hopelessness is so extreme that they feel anything goes. What's the worse that can happen? That she will lose the nomination? Well, that'll probably happen anyway. So they're trying ANYTHING that they can think of. They'll worry about the consequences later. Of course, one of these consequences is the field day that the Republican attack hordes will have with all of Clinton's gyrations. For all the fear of what the opponents will do with the Wright material, I think Clinton has provided them with ten times as much material, even during this election alone, let alone the massive amounts of material she and BIll provided over the last 35 years of so-called "experience".

Posted by: kynn | Apr 7, 2008 8:31:20 PM

What is wrong with this Hillary? I was against NAFTA before I voted for it. I was against the War before I voted for it.

I actually started criticizing the War in Iraq before he did. Look would I lie? So there I rest my case. Naaa Naaa Naaa

This is written down in my college bookbag for posterity just for you doubting Thomas's - Yuck yuck yuck!

Gotta go time for my meds.


Posted by: paul pa | Apr 7, 2008 7:40:22 PM

To keepitreal-- Thank you for your post. Unfortunately, the political world and the dialogue that surrounds it is infused with attack. Witness the sarcasm, recriminations, diatribes, belittling, and general hostilities that dominate political blogging. It's the playground of the ego. The vast majority of people who contribute are not truly interested in an open-minded discourse. I truly believe that no votes are changed in the discourse here. Does an Obama or Clinton supporter really believe--in their heart of hearts--that by railing against the opposition candidate as "ignorant" or "un-American" or "deceptive" they will somehow lead the opposition's supporters to throw up their arms and say, "Oh yeah, you're right, I don't know what came over me. I will change my vote because you have now enlightened me"? Doubtful. Your point, however, directs us to a deeper level of understanding that many will likely deride as "psycho-spiritual babble" or "nonsense," but one which rings true to me. My favorite articulation comes out of A Course in Miracles: "Projection makes perception. The world you see is what you gave it, nothing more than that. But though it is no more than that, it is not less. Therefore, to you it is important. It is the witness to your state of mind, the outside picture of an inward condition. As a man thinketh, so does he perceive. Therefore, seek not to change the world, but choose to change your mind about the world." Essentially, this teaches that attack on another is an outward projection of an inner self-hatred.
Again, I appreciate your post. The buddhism quotes are real treasures. Thanks for sharing them.

Posted by: Realitis | Apr 7, 2008 7:40:21 PM

Wars are not fought on speculation. What we do know and what we knew then is this: There were no real WMD in Iraq, and that Iraq/Saddam had nothing to do with 911. Nuclear is included in WMD.

Posted by: jason | Apr 7, 2008 6:46:33 PM

JASON: Do you really think that if we had not gone into Iraq, that Saddam would not be "really" trying to get a nuclear weapon to counter the Iranians.

Also, if our Army was here at home, would there be an Al Queda in the USA? Probably not...

Posted by: zootsuithapp | Apr 7, 2008 6:33:53 PM

How did we go to war with the wrong country? Hillary said this:

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
-- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

Posted by: zootsuithapp | Apr 7, 2008 6:28:48 PM

Becky, you are correct on all but the most important point. To say the environment needs to change first before we see real change in our circumstances is to say in effect that we are controlled by our environment and that our true happiness is some how dependent on that environmental change. We must change our mentalities to the thinking and belief that we are ultimately responsible for everything that happens to us (whether we think so or not, WE ARE!), and that we are the ultimate deciders in whether we do create a positive environment or a negative one. To be controlled by our envirnment is to continue on the same path we are on now. One perfect example is how these political ads cause soooo many people to frame their own judgement based on its' message - whether the information happens to be right or wrong. We don't take enough control over making sure we know the truth, before we decide. That's a major flaw of our character that has got to change before any environmental circumstance will begin to truly work in our favor. Right now we don't respect our environment so how does it come first in the solution of how we become Truly Happy People. If you know anything about truly happy people, they don't wait for their environment to change - They change their thinking and belief system about life which gives rise for them to develop the courage and wisdom to know how to draw out, from with-in, the life-condition to handle whatever the environment has to throw at them. And as their stregnth, resolve and persistance remains constant, it pulsates outwardly to the minds of others. The positive environmental change is based on all of our collective positive efforts to see the world in its truest form and with one mind to create value in everything, even when we don't think we see any value there. Once that occurs we naturally will see that our environment will begin to follow suit. The environment is: nature, us and our universe. Nichiren Buddhism has a very profound passage that states: 'If the people's minds are pure so is their land. But if the people's minds are impure so is their land. There is neither a pure or impure land apart from the inner workings of our minds.' That there is no such thing as a pure land or impure land outside of us suggest a much deeper level of responsibility and understanding about the True Entity of Life than our current civilization is used to hearing. It all oringinates in the mind and the effects are by no means some accident or strange occurance. People have undergone a tremendously long period of time creating and trying to hide and disguise the effects of their actions. Buddhism says these effects will manifest themselves when the time and conditions are right just as flowers already embody the inherent cause for blooming in the spring, when the time and conditions are right! And this is a natural law just as gravity is. This law I speak of is and has been for centuries, proven to be the most fundamental law of any other. The most direct path to enlightenment or abosolute happiness that is not guided by our environments changing circumstances. The problem is, Americans like others around the world are so skeptical about learning other philosophies that we miss all of the true wonders to be experienced in our beautiful world.

Posted by: keepitreal50 | Apr 7, 2008 6:10:19 PM

Read the article by Peter Wehner in the February Issue of Commentary Magazine if you want a comprehensive outline of Obama's various positions on the War in Iraq. My favorite is:

Almost as soon as the war began in March 2003, Obama had second thoughts about his opposition to it. Watching the dramatic footage of the toppling of Saddam’s statue in Baghdad, and then the President’s speech aboard the U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln, “I began to suspect,” he would write later in his autobiographical The Audacity of Hope (2006), “that I might have been wrong.” And these second thoughts seem to have stayed with him throughout the entire first phase of the occupation following our initial combat victory. As he told the Chicago Tribune in July 2004, “There’s not that much difference between my position and George Bush’s position at this stage.”

Posted by: Kathy Corey | Apr 7, 2008 6:03:12 PM

You know when you've hit saturation point on a politician? When the fact that she lied or misspoke or errored or whatever they are calling it this week isn't even shocking. No wonder the Republicans want to run against her so badly. She has impeached her character on her own. They don't have to dig up any dirt since she's bringing wheelbarrows full of it to them.

Posted by: Russ G | Apr 7, 2008 5:36:58 PM

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that I am committed to the idea that WE have the ability to demand the type of insightful, truthful, contextually accurate, in depth factual and non corporate sponsored information that we have never had before. Each other. Now I say we have the right to speak openly about the core causes of the lies, smoke, mirrors, sexual deviance, and corporate take over of our country. If we do not demand that our candidates speak to these issues nothing they have or haven't said in this race will matter. Our government is putting on a show and these candidates are a part of it. I cannot stress enough, if we do not remove the false pretense and power that our two factions of government, our electoral collage and our courts are abusing, none of this will matter. Write to your news stations about your concern of legitimacy,write each candidate and tell them you wont vote unless they acknowlege these issues fully, make them talk about it.They are applying for a job with you. Make them earn it. write to your reps. write to the white house. Just write letters.Even to your family. If we are truly Americans we must show the factions we will work together to preserve this or they will take it away.Take away the extremists in our government and we are just people that want the same thing. Just like Mom and Dad. If you can't show reason and the ability to see the world for what it is and take care of or show real interest in what you have they take it away. You are considered a danger to yourself and others and now Mom and Dad sell off your favorite stuff to pay for the damages you did. We are spoiled and ignorant and Mom and Dad have become Conglom USA. They have to pay the bills somehow right.Just take a moment and ask yourself, should my candidate have the courage to look within the division of America and take a gash out of it by proving our votes count, and ONLY our votes. They have not answered my inquiries yet.

Posted by: Bre | Apr 7, 2008 5:05:48 PM

I agree with lyne-
Absolutes and extreme vilification of Democrats @the war now is unfair. Can anyone deny that we have not removed the core of the threat that attacked us in the first place. Short Attention Span Theater in this country is epidemic. Why only remember one side of an issue, how does that make you valuable to anyone in any situation. It just makes you shall we say a tool of the trade.

Posted by: Bre | Apr 7, 2008 4:37:44 PM

Hey, let's not forget a couple of things.
1. Obama in hateful Church for 20 years (anti-white church)
2. Obama's wife is anti-American, pro black liberation
3. Obama reveres Rev. Wright and "Minister Farrakhan"
4. obama tied to Syrain gangster Rezko, who helped him buy his home.
5. Obama slammed his white Grandma, you never see any of his white family.

Now, what is wrong with any white middle-class person who would vote for him? I ask you? The wealthy liberal whites can afford to put an anti-white in, because they have the $$$, it will not affect their jobs and their money.

Posted by: MsUSA2 | Apr 7, 2008 4:37:22 PM

WoaH, Bobo
Hold your horses! Democrats never said that we should not go to war at all. The issue at the time was is still is that we were going to war with the WRONG COUNTRY.

Congress approved for Bush to go to war against Bin Laden (who was is Afghanistan, not Iraq). Everyone agreed that he should go after the guilty, but not Iraq which it turns out never had the Weapons and was not supporting the terrorists who actually attacked US!

No American (Democrat, Republican, or Other) would deny the president the right to go to war with someone who just bombed the country.

But the issue being discussed here is Iraq, not Afghanistan. "Staying the course" to me means dont stop until you catch and punish Bin Laden. Dont stop and start a different war before you have done that!

Posted by: lyne | Apr 7, 2008 4:28:26 PM

To Kayla-
Your statement is false. The hospital in my hometown has a sign in their waiting room that reads: If you are not insured, you do not have money to pay your bill and you are not in immediate danger, Seek treatment elsewhere, you will not be admitted. So you are incorrect.

Posted by: Bre | Apr 7, 2008 4:28:10 PM

To the new yorker, thank you for acknowledging my sentiments, I just have no faith that my vote even counts, and I think in a way if no one voted on election day, but sent thier vote and reason to their representitive in writing. That would make faking anything hard and make quite a statement.

Posted by: Bre | Apr 7, 2008 4:20:47 PM

HRC is at it again. when will this woman stop? if hillary knew so much about our healthcare system she would know that NO ONE can be turned away due to lack of insurance. she doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt here. hillary knew it was false and she didnt care. a serious commander in chief would've made sure to have the story checked out and she DIDN'T DO THAT!
why she didn't make sure the story was checked out? hillary lacks the ability to make serious judgement. this has been shown time and time again with this woman. NO WAY should hillary be president of the U.S.

Posted by: kayla | Apr 7, 2008 4:18:08 PM

Remember after 9/11, Bush asked that Congress approve that he could threaten to go to war. Congress did. Without this approval, the US might have seemed weak and open to additional terrorist attacks. Democrats voting at the time, did not want war, but needed to show support for the President. The US citizens favored this approach at the time. It soon became clear that Bush intended to wage war and search for the infamous weapons of mass destruction and bio-warfare chemicals. None were found and there was not an exit strategy in place....
BUT PLEASE - will the real-OBAMA please stand-up....he has made such a big deal out of a 2002 speech he gave opposing the invasion of Iraq. Later in 2004, "at the Democratic Convention," Obama stated there was "not much difference" between him and George W. Bush on Iraq. Obama said that he "did not know" how he would have voted on the now-contentious 2002 Senate resolution authorizing military action in Iraq, had he been in the Senate at the time. Per this article, his conversation with Rice does not say he opposes the war, only that he shares in the many concerns that Congress and voters had at the time.

Posted by: Bobo | Apr 7, 2008 4:10:47 PM

I don't think there is a best candidate, I think that it won't make that big of a difference who is elected. Events are already in motion globally none of them can halt as individuals. I want a democrat because they generally pay more attention to the plight of the working class. Yet the fighting amongst us over one or the other seems pointless to the big picture. The long run. The change that really needs to happen. Why further alienate on another over them, institutionites, when we need to look further ahead with vigor.

Posted by: Bre | Apr 7, 2008 4:09:05 PM

No I am not suggesting not voting, I am suggesting you keep this in mind all year when you write your congressmen all year like I do. I am suggesting that we all start taking more part other than just at election fight night. Doing so prolongs the issue as it has contunied to get worse each cycle. You may say it has nothing to do with now, but the more we fight on these boards, the less focus we keep in the long run. This is not a quick fix but an essential one.

Posted by: Bre | Apr 7, 2008 4:02:49 PM

What would you have us do Bre? Not vote at all?

Even though you are right we still have to vote for the best candidate. That IS the concept of our great Democracy you are talking about!

Posted by: The NewYorker | Apr 7, 2008 3:56:50 PM

one last thing how can Senator Clinton be serious she said caucuses don't count pledged's don't count all the win's are nothing that Senator Obama won she has told the party i'm in charge you owe me just got much luggage and language on the real why is she and most new's carrier's waiting on Senator Obama to make a mistake now that is some real disrimination are you all saying she can't make a mistake she's got all of you guessing for she has shown some ump''un-lady like class now i can't remember what Howard Dean was all that bad or Senator Kerry's comment's but they were not that bad but her's and bill are rough maybe you'll owe them(CNN,MSNBC,and oh cry baby Hannity-obsesed be an Obama girl but I respect Keith he is honest and Tim my hats'off to you and keep it real Roland) not the party for they really have been rude oh yeh i like that move after Iowa around New Hampshire check it out when she said you know what they are trying to do who was they Senator Edwards and Senator Obama have names or was that a pass word for after that came the race on race sly issues her whole camp is full of it say anything it's okay now i don't dis-like them but they have been putting a bad taste in my heart if you can't beat Obama don't try to hurt not only him but our party but this is really the way we Dems party if we are going to take the house take it if out of the next three elects and their is still a clear front runner all superdelegate's should come outno convention just have the loser suck it up it is going on to long but if she going play along playlthe game fair and michgan and florida you need to vote in november for whoever you feel you knew the rules also we are not kids sorry about that but we have to have guidelines if we are to remain a party of fairness now if Senator Obama did like her they would ask him to drop out shame on you waving your finger shame on you and my grandson saw you doing that that's what pissed me off losing your cool at will shame on you''ll daughter too if she is going to play she won't be off limit's i know and they know she is grown so don't get it twisted just keepin it real

Posted by: fly-poole | Apr 7, 2008 3:45:14 PM

As a Democrat, I at one point or another over the last eight years have had the inclination at one point or another to vote for any of these candidates at different times. Now that I see none of them are really fighting to protect the American peoples right to a fair and accurate election. Bush and his cronies set the stage for a new era of elections in this country and the Dems being beat in the game in 2004 with a stacked house in the supreme court, along with the BS in Florida and Michigan have no choice but to play the game or see the end of the democratic party.( the effectually of this party and the republican party have been compromised greatly.)I didn't think we were supposed to hate one another, but be represented. We are being used as scapegoats for one another to keep us detracted from the REAL ISSUE. The biggest challenge our contemporary country has faced. Our current election set up is outdated, ineffectual and causing division and disenfranchisement of our people. Hillary almost touches it but would be crushed from ALL sides if she said it outright.(I am not supporting her or any candidate, I support the country and my countrymen. This will not be an accurate election, and we will not have an accurate election until we deal with the electoral college and the delegates. They know it is wrong to continue this stronghold and yet will not give it up without a fight. It is so easy to divide us over issues that yes matter, but will not actually be dealt with but toyed with and given some consideration as to placate us more. We cannot have accurate elections as long as we allow the parties to continue to abuse the electoral college, the super delegates and the supreme courts to decide for us.
All of these little details you are spending all this energy on mean nothing in comparison to the deliberate disenfranchisement of the American People over the last twenty years, by a theater government that has to up the veracity of battles each election to keep us believing that our social economic civil war that has been going on in congress for the past forty years is bringing some kind of compromise. Now they realize that with the access to information and organization that we have available to us as citizens is dangerous to that theater, they have stepped up the ringside show. We must clean our own house before pointing fingers at other countries and parties within. We must stop fighting over election promises that rarely get fulfilled by any candidate and start looking at the root cause of our problem. We must not allow the pandering to our emotions distract us any longer. The root cause, detsraction and gnashing at one another will not find us a legitimate candidate, it will only continue this cycle that is becoming more dangerous to our nation than any foreign nation, the people are losing more governing ground with every election. Please stop calling each other stupid, it makes us all look like idiots. Why can the rest of the world see that we have lost any control of self governing and have been placated by the extremes ON BOTH SIDES, yet we refuse to believe that people with power would screw us over. Why is it so hard to believe that in a world market we became employees of a company and not citizens anymore. Do you feel large companies see their employees as a number, a bottom line, or as people? I have heard many company leaders speeches to new employees and the promises they make to people are the same our government has been making to us, yet I have not seen those promises actually taken into consideration with any of them. I choose to work local and so does my husband. Now we wish to govern local as well. For the conglomerate of America is not a company with the type of demonstrated values I feel comfortable giving my loyalty to. You have used a system set up 200 years ago to plunder and divide this country for your own gain and so that you don't have to do the hard work of fixing this mess. Instead taking advantage of it. Shame to the Democrats and Al Gore for not fighting the fight when you had the chance.Shame to the media for allowing yourselves to give up your integrity and control to the company, shame on Democrats for being to weak willed to make this fight about the real issues that threaten our country the most, Shame on the republicans for being so illusively transparent, and last but not least, shame on all of us for buying in and tearing each other apart over three people that are part of the problem. Shame on us for not being to stand up against this as our forefathers did. For becoming lazy and self involved to the point we did not uphold the legacy that our grandfather and grandmothers brought forth with WWII. Shame on us for not seeing that our true friends in this are each other and that no single candidate will change this situation only WE can. If we are not willing to sacrifice, and truly compromise the way they did, our country is lost. K.I.S.S. That means the simple answer is usually right. The simple answer is to look within first, and deal with those base issues that are standing in the way of our democracy and making a laughing stock out of what was once regarded as the greatest country in the world.( For a person who believes in democracy to live in.)When will we make a stand? I am not promoting violence, just honesty, historical context, and freedom of the press.
Until the press talks more openly about this, I will fully believe that they are being controlled by the conglomeration of American business and hand in hand with what was the American Government. Please see that we are not enemies in our own country we should all be patriots of what that country truly stood for and stop letting people tell you that if you disagree with them it is unamerican. We are here on this land because of disagreement, and unity in purpose does not mean blind obedience or believing what you are told by people that as individuals have more to gain by lying, pandering or just keeping quiet. Wake up America

Posted by: Bre | Apr 7, 2008 3:25:54 PM

New Yorkers are already familiar with Hillary Clinton's flip-flopping her position to appease whomever she has to at the moment to get her way (which changes all of the time). She doesn't really care about any people or issues but just lies to get what she wants.

I recall one case in New York... the world-famous story in which four NYPD Officers pumped 41 bullets into an unarmed African immigrant on his doorstep because they mistook him for a rapist in the area. The policemen claim that they thought his black wallet was a gun in his hand as he was on the doorstep of his apartment building reaching for his keys to open the door.

Now the city was exploding with anger and all of the Black people were near rioting. Hillary was still campaining to win the NY Senate race and needed to scare up votes. It was the consensus in the city that the policemen were wrong and should be punished. During the height of this tension, Hillary Clinton pairs up with the controversial local Black civil-rights leader Al Sharpton and made a statement at his Martin Luther King Jr Day event. In front of a pro-Black audience she spoke passionately against the NYPD referring to the officers as "Murderers".

This helped her popularity with Black voters at the time when the consensus was that the officers would be convicted (and the trial was expected to be held in the predominately Afro-American, Hispanic, and Other Non-White New York City urban area where the shooting took place).

Now the officer's lawyers fought to have the trial moved to the mostly White NY suburb of Albany because they claimed that in the city the Officers could not get an objective Jury/fair trial in the City. They won the argument and the trial was moved to Albany.

Then suddenly Hillary (who by the time the case was ready to to to trial had already won the race for NY Senate, largely with Black and Hispanic votes) radically changes her position about the police shooting and death of the unarmed man and starts saying that she "mis-spoke" at Al Sharpton's MLK event and that she did not mean to call the officers murders. ...Changing her stance and abandoning the urban Blacks and Hispanics who thought the officers should be punished to appease the more right-winged suburban whites in Albany where the trial had been moved to.

Now imagine she gets into the White House and changes her position on everything she has ever said because the Republicans (or whomever it may be) are putting pressure on her!

Posted by: The NewYorker | Apr 7, 2008 3:13:37 PM

HRC and her spouse WJC are made for
each other.

She dodged sniper fire in Bosnia and
he dodged the draft.

Posted by: anon | Apr 7, 2008 2:43:06 PM

Here's another one of HRC's big and impressive whoppers she has supposedly told many times: On 9/11, when the
two jet airliners crashed into the two towers of the World Trade Center in NYC, her daughter was jogging in
the neighborhood.

Posted by: anon | Apr 7, 2008 2:29:12 PM

I see from the comments that the hospital "story" that hillary was using to make a point was not so far off base....a "story" that she prefaced with the fact that she had received it second hand from a deputy sheriff..


So where is Tapper and other so-called "journalists" in retracting their story...

News sources turned tabloids will lose viewers and readers over their willingness to spin the primary in Obama's favor.

We found out the truth about the war later...no one has held the media accountable for the part they played in selling us Iraq. And now they want to sell us Obama...

Read, research valid sources to find out the stories that you are not being told. Don't trust the tabloids or attack sites that favor one candidate over another.

Posted by: Jackie | Apr 7, 2008 2:25:57 PM

For the people calling Obama ghetto, that he can not be a president because he grew up in the ghetto???
Is this the best you can do???? Are you saying that people (black, white, etc.) if they live in the ghetto that they are not human??? Boy I pray that that old saying "what goes around comes around" does not hit you. Here is a lesson for you to think about today:

Did black people become depressed, disenfranchised and disempowered on their own? Would you suggest that they (or anyone) given equal opportunity would choose poverty, imprisonment and ignorance over success, freedom and education? Are we to believe that poverty or criminal behavior is somehow genetic and just being born black or white or hispanic somehow pre-determines you to these outcomes?

We are all products of our environment and our environments are decided for us long before birth. In the case of black Americans those pre-existing environments were shaped by slavery, civil rights battles won and lost and generally inferior class status and opportunities today. To deny that these factors exist would be akin to denying that you were born to a particular mother in a particular place at a particular time.

In order to truly effect change you need to change the environments and that's an issue that goes beyond "black communities" and needs to involve all communities. After all, doesn't the failure of one group in society ultimately effect the entire society?

Posted by: Becky | Apr 7, 2008 2:04:41 PM

So you are saying that, Hillary Doesn't lie or just not as much as Obama. Or his just don't get covered as much as hers. I think that you have other problems that you need to deal with. Do you honestly believe that the media likes Obama more than Hillary. Come On. you have to do better than that.

Posted by: Jason | Apr 7, 2008 1:46:36 PM

Hillary Haters - See this video first.

ABC - You need to do proper investigation first.

The Clinton campaign is being accused of lying about the hospital story that Hillary Clinton has told to audiences on the campaign trail. Now Fox News is parsing the history of the event that ABC fully published on its Web site (VIDEO below). In that video, Bryan Holman is shown telling Hillary the story that she tells on the trail. The NY Times has published a report in which O’Bleness Hospital said they did not turn her away. But, that isn’t what Bryan Holman said in the first place. I have confirmed with Deputy Holman that he did not say O’Bleness denied Ms. Bachtel. It was another hospital that denied her. He is also clear that she wasn’t denied over a co payment as some have speculated. I will keep you updated here at NoQuarter as this story develops.

The thing you have to see is that this isn’t “THE HOSPITAL” in question. Bryan Holman said that after being denied, she went to another hospital.

Here’s the video of Bryan Holman telling the story unedited. (Note: in the middle he states she was denied treatment then went to another hospital, the O’Bleness hospital.)

Watch the actual video here -

http://tinyurl.com/4jjlu3


Posted by: GS | Apr 7, 2008 1:43:00 PM

Toby...
Consider this. The majority of the military is Republican (approx 70%-80% not exactly sure) Don't you think that I'd be more brainwashed in tune with what the President says, rather than the other way around, I'm my own person I have my own brain. As far as education, I probably have far more than you..(but I don't assume because I don't know.) Never assume makes an ASS out of U not ME.

Posted by: Jason | Apr 7, 2008 1:40:34 PM

If you think the media is biased, why don't you go over to FOX where they are more Republican in nature. I'm sure you'll feel right at home there. Additionally, CNN nore ABC has really said anything negative about McCain. It's primarily been all about Obama, and Hillary. I'm sorry if McCains campaign is that boring. People don't like boring!

Posted by: Jason | Apr 7, 2008 1:25:27 PM

Leave Hillary alone! The media always creates a news story to make her look bad.
How about reporting on that CON ARTIST Obama. Ghetto politics means dirty money. Corrupt money bought his home, lots of dirty money for his campaign, will testify in Rezko trial...sooner or later Obama will be caught! Too many shady friends wanting to get tax payer money....vote Hillary or McCain!

Posted by: Pete in Texas | Apr 7, 2008 1:21:52 PM

Where is the video, the ad, that shows Hillary Clinton superimposed over bombs blasting in Iraq and showing every one of our dying soldiers with the blood on her hands? Where is this video? And why hasn't it been shown here in Pennsylvania? The people in Pennsylvania really need to see this woman for what she really is--a liar and cheat. This is getting beyond the ridiculous, and now with her making these claims. I truly believe this woman is sick sick sick, there is something wrong mentally with her and she shouldn't be allowed to get away with tripe like this. She doesn't read intelligence reports, she goes and votes for the invasion and now she comes out with she criticized it before Obama? In her dreams! What a nutcase! OBAMA '08!!!

Posted by: RuthieM | Apr 7, 2008 1:10:10 PM

I'll give you the first hint, Saddam paid the families of suicide bombers.


Read the whole Iraq/Terrorist report for yourself.

Posted by: Toby Hill | Apr 7, 2008 12:58:48 PM

Toby...
Your facts are what this President has told you. Other than that you have no facts. Politicians don't lie to support their plans, and there were WMD in Iraq. Oh yeah and Mission Accomplished! and so you know I'm not biased, Hillary was dodging sniper fire in Bosnia.

Posted by: Jason | Apr 7, 2008 12:57:13 PM

Toby,

So what are your facts. I'm dying to know!!!

Posted by: Jason | Apr 7, 2008 12:48:23 PM