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Rural Dem Strategist: Clinton 'Bosnia' Gaffe Might Be Worse Than Obama 'Small Town' Gaffe
April 13, 2008 9:05 PM
Rural Democratic strategist Dave "Mudcat" Saunders had spent much of the last few days turkey hunting out in the Roanoke, Va., area, on a stretch to the crest of the Blue Ridge Mountain known as Five Mile Mountain, so when I reached him on Saturday he hadn't heard about the remarks Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., made about small town Americans.
"It's Spring gobbler season," explains Saunders, a former strategist for former Sen. John Edwards, D-N.C., who helped Edwards reach out to what he called the Bubba vote.
A day later, Saunders -- who earned his nickname bottom-fishing the Roanoke River -- tells me that he's certainly bothered by what Obama had to say, but he's not sure what impact the comments will have.
When I ask how folks out in Roanoke are responding, Saunders says "It's not been long enough for Sen. Obama's remarks. People don't -- out in rural America -- sit and watch cable news networks. Nor do they get on the Internet and go to the DailyKos or the Huffington Post.
"But once it gets out there it will move and move quickly," he says.
Saunders helped elect former Virginia Gov. Mark Warner and Sen. Jim Webb, D-Va., and is something of an expert on Democrats reaching out to "NASCAR Dads," the white, working-class sometimes Southern men Democrats have had trouble winning in national elections.
"Eight years ago it was politically and culturally unacceptable for a white male to say he was a Democrat," Saunders says. "That's changed a bit." Obama's remarks could hurt him with these voters, Saunders says, not caring for Obama saying these voters "cling to guns or religion, or antipathy to people who aren't like them."
"'People who aren't like them,'" Saunders says. "I know Obama will say it doesn't, but I don't know if that had racial undertones. It comes off like that. It's going to take some time to see if this has got legs. I think it could have huge legs."
That said, Saunders says he's "not sure it's gonna have the legs of that Bosnia deal," referring to Sen. Hillary Clinton's oft-told, since-discredited story that in 1996 she landed in Bosnia amidst sniper fire.
Saunders says rural Americans are 19 percent of the population but constitute 27 percent of the casualties from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, referring to a recent study.
"I've heard several remarks in restaurants about that," he says. "Here in a small town, in rural America, there's a high degree of patriotism."
"There's a lot of veterans out here, it's part of the culture, a lot of people go into the service.
"And have heard some veterans -- neither Republican nor Democrat, just veterans, just regular guys, raise holy hell about Hillary and the Bosnia episode," Saunders says.
Vets don't like it when people lie about war.
Whether Obama's "small town" gaffe will surpass that mistake remains to be seen, Saunders says. "Barack Obama the 'change' candidate can obviously win. Barack Obama the inexperienced candidate can even win. But these latest remarks -- he came off as anti-gun, and the religion part -- we turn to religion when we're bitter? That's offensive -- well, we'll see what Hillary and the Republicans do with that."
-- jpt
April 13, 2008 in 2008: Democrats | Permalink | Share | User Comments (99)
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Yes. Excuse those of us whose urban communities are plagued by weapons fire and dead children to be too busy grieving over their loss than to grieve over the gun rights of a minority of persons which might be lost through more efficient gun control.
Posted by: Robert Campbell | Apr 16, 2008 1:15:41 AM
I've never been shot at, but I've twice seen other people trying to kill each other with guns. One time successfully. I remember every second of both incidents in vivid detail.
There is no way someone as smart as Hillary could have poor recall about being "under sniper fire".
She didn't misspeak. She told a lie.
A bragging lie. The kind of lie that decent people learn not to tell before the get out of high school.
Being in a life threatening, violent situation is and experience you've either had or not had. I'd vote for someone with or without that experience. I will NEVER vote for someone who would lie about something so important.
Posted by: Max Allstadt | Apr 15, 2008 3:19:47 PM
Small-town folks in PA voting for
Clinton are untutored masochists asking for 25 more years of joblessness.
Posted by: anon | Apr 15, 2008 3:26:21 AM
It is true that small-town folks in PA can't make an informed decision.
Why would anybody in those towns even bother to show up to hear HRC - a thoroughly discredited candidate?
Posted by: anon | Apr 15, 2008 2:10:25 AM
Obama has lost his moejoe!
The gig is up!!!
We are really getting to know the Obama that we do not know!
Beter now than in the White House
His friends:
WRIGHT, FARRAKHAN AND NOW WE JUST FOUND OUT WILLIAM AYERS...SCARY!!
Posted by: Vote4Prosperity | Apr 14, 2008 10:10:18 PM
"You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone…And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
This is what he said...does he really need to explain...do you really want the MSM cutting this down to "bitter" or "cling" Read this and decide what it means...don't believe the spin!
Posted by: Jackie | Apr 14, 2008 9:34:10 PM
I kind of though we were "post racial" until Obama pointed out the racism in Hillary and Bill and Ferraro...forgave it in Wright and now is describing it all across small town America...Nice to have a moral compass that appears to be taking America back thirty years...
This election should be about the future...I resent the consistant effort to make this election about apologisizing to Blacks for slavery or Jim Crow.
I have a bi-racial grandson that has never experienced the prejudice that Obama's campaign injected into this campaign...Although I think it was his campaign's decision seeing as how he was constantly denying that he felt that way. When they made that decision America started to get ugly...and trust me no amount of Hollywood insiders or MSM spinners is going to fix this.
I do not want my grandson to have to experience the "new politics" that are pretty hopeless...The blogs are a reflection of a new anger on the streets. And as a middle aged white woman that hasn't really seen this before I don't care for it all.
Posted by: Jackie | Apr 14, 2008 9:27:57 PM
this whole thing would be long gone except for the media looking to make a story about everything.
Let's talk more about Bush/Cheney as war criminals and forget about over interpreting all this stuff.
Posted by: dennis | Apr 14, 2008 9:01:13 PM
Perhaps it's a good thing that Obama is pretty much a clear slate. His wacky supporters are free to project their own biases, sociological and demographic junk science.
Give it a rest people. IT'S WHERE HE MADE THE REMARKS THAT IS SINKING HIM. Heretofore, what had he communicated during that big bus trip throughout Pennsylvania that would give people the sense that he had picked up on their frustration AND HAD PLANS TO ADDRESS IT!
gotcha!!!!!!!!
Posted by: morningside | Apr 14, 2008 3:25:18 PM
When Hillary Clinton flew to Bosnia, she stepped outside her comfort zone - and the comfort zone of most of us. There had been danger there - it was a war zone. She deserves credit for traveling there.
Obama meanwhile, from the safety of the US Capitol building couldn't even hold a meeting of his Afghanistan sub-committee.- Though of course the chairmanship of the committee sure looks good on his resume.
How many examples do we need of Obama promoting appearance over substance.
Posted by: morningside | Apr 14, 2008 3:19:24 PM
I was watching c-span Sunday and there was a reporter on from Politico. A caller asked the question, "why isn't anyone talking about Hillary Clinton's fraud trial in California." Well, he never even acknowledged the question. He went to a totally different subject. By not talking about it, the media is clearly showing bias for her, but I'm sure that Fox news will be all over it f she becomes a threat. The case is Peter Paul vs Hillary Clinton.
Posted by: Researcher | Apr 14, 2008 1:33:14 PM
Mudcat must not be all that smart. I'm from a rural area in the midwest. Believe me when I say this, you don't EVER insult someone's religion and get away with it. There will be a HUGE price to pay for that humdinger. And I believe Obama pretty much topped his insult off with a heaping helping of calling everyone a bigot as well. Ooooh!! That won't play very well in Small Town USAl!! My husband's hairdresser is furious, and says her customers are just as mad. I don't think Mudcat knows squat!!!
Posted by: Susan Murphy | Apr 14, 2008 11:35:15 AM
Clark Jackson wrote: I just don't get it. Obama's remarks are basically correct. I know 'cause I'm a small town guy from PA. What's the big deal here?
The Big deal are: you lost your job and cling to gun to kill people. you hate immigrant, and you antisemitism and agree like Rev Wright said god damn America.
You small towm people scare a lot of elite californian marrin County.
Posted by: Tindh | Apr 14, 2008 11:17:44 AM
Exactly, 'urban renewal' killed San Francisco's Jazz clubs and black owned businesses....and that is who Obama courted. The same monied interests that killed the Jazz scene on the West Coast and on Fillmore St. There is a PBS Documentary on it...all the greats played in SF.
So, I say. NO...shame on you OBAMA!
Speaking to the people who gutted black history while laughing about gutting what gives PA their history, since you are against firearms. Is being a typical hypocritical elitist....
Posted by: Cali girl knows the truth | Apr 14, 2008 11:02:05 AM
"People may be angry that the government is failing,but they do not CLING to their GUNS and/or RELIGION because of their anger/bitterness towards government!"
John,
Your quote reminded me, under that Violent Radicalization Bill....he kinda called them domestic terrorists. If he can flip the switch on what others say, so can we. ;)
Bitter with guns, religion, and the Constitution, with the desire to keep their guns and mad at the world, small town PA, could be charged under his false description of them.
Geez...whatta a guy! He reminds me of Bush everyday.
Posted by: Cali girl knows | Apr 14, 2008 10:59:20 AM
The sad thing this supposedly Democratic year is that the democrats will vote on emotional issues rather that the main issues that affect the welfare of our country; like health care, economy, jobs, costly wars. Many will not be willing to put their selfish desires aside to help better this country,who cares about the issues anymore after all this is america.We should never wonder why republicans win elections.
Dems for the white house!
yes we can!
Posted by: merle7 | Apr 14, 2008 10:24:47 AM
Hillary Clinton is a liability tn the Democratic Party. Dems will cut their losses and Unite behind Obama.
Obama all the way!
Posted by: Lookup | Apr 14, 2008 10:09:46 AM
Excellent post by John Baer... that commercial media is again distracting from real issues by perverting Obama's remarks as anti-working class when they are in fact the opposite of that; he is decrying the use of wedge issues to hammer us workers for the last 30 years.
Dianne Foster, night-shift RN
Posted by: Dianne Foster | Apr 14, 2008 9:40:18 AM
Hillary's Bosnia comments were not a "gaffe" they were self serving bald faced LIES! They insulted the command of Task Force Eagle and implied that the soldiers there jeopardized the wife and CHILD of the president by not securing the base.
A compulsive liar is not qualified to lead the free world. A liar that throws her military officers under the bus for her own benefit is beyond the pale.
There is no comparison here and for the main stream media to continue to play dumb on this is a betrayal of the free press.
Posted by: Marilee | Apr 14, 2008 9:31:20 AM
Hillary was talking about herself and it wasn't in a "war".
Obama was sneering at real Americans behind their backs at a snooty fundraiser in SF.
Please spare us the absurd spin. Obama supporters can't handle the truth, which is he is unelectable in November.
Posted by: geevill | Apr 14, 2008 9:26:04 AM
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