Political Punch

Thanks to the Clintons, the GE is now in jeopardy. But those who would vote for the party that has ruined the country in these seven years, for whatever reason, are only doing it to themselves and will have years to get used to the pleasure.

Dear tired,
You took the words right out of my mouth. Affirmative Action.
Well, I don't know about you, but, I will be an observer until Nov when I vote for someone, anyone, but....and I really mean it. My vote may only be 1/4 of a vote anyway and they may end up giving it to him if I vote Dem, so, I won't be doing that anymore!

The party's response is too little and too late.

At the end, the pundits do not care about the election. They care only about themselves. They want to be the super-delegate. They lied and made up new rules.

Vote Pelosi, Reid, and Dean out of their office. Down the Undemocratic Democratic Party.

GET OVER IT. All THE CANDIDATES AGREED NOT TO CAMPAIGN IN FLORIDA AND MICHIGAN. RULES ARE RULES AND THE SAD PART IS SOME OF THE COMMITTEE MEMBERS WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR CREATING THOSE PARTICULAR RULES?? ENOUGH already. Harold Ickes was like a brat that didn't get what his boss sent him to get. Hartina Flouroy was the same and it seems to me that the committee's rules were clear that the votes WOULD NOT count. Take it one step further the committee set the rules and for them to tell the committee it was wrong, was like looking in the mirror and saying they were wrong. All candidates agreed that was the eventual outcome. It was clear to see by their questions and concerns they were only interested is seeing Hillary get what she wanted. This is not a good idea for her to authorize her representatives to suggest that it will go to the next level of denial and to keep her failing campaign going. I think the super delegates should step up and give one or the other the needed votes to end this now. This obsession with her being the most electable is a total figment of her imagination. Get over it and let's move on. Her & her family are almost living in PR to get the desired results, but the math will not provide the results they are seeking. Vote OBAMA 2008 for CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN.

Posted by: tired | Jun 1, 2008 12:55:19 AM

you can get off all you want on your condescending posts...build yourself up in your own mind...spout your ridiculous rhetoric. it is of no matter to me.
join your other 90% and wait for your affirmative action representative to save you...
i am done with you...not worth my time.

Posted by: tired | Jun 1, 2008 12:35:29 AM

i could give a rip who or what you are.
by the way, hillary's "plenty of black votes"==less then 10%.

Oh pp you are a jewel.

There goes those myopic symptoms again! There you go ASSuming again!! I bet if you closed your eyes and listened, you would have thought that Rev. Pfleger was Black!!!! Are you saying that I can't be a White girl with a Black girlfriend that keeps me updated to the hip talk? Thanx for validating YOURSELF by confirming that you think that someone who says something nice about Obama (and something not so nice about Hillary) is Black. Well, guess what? I'm not gonna TELL you! I'm not gonna TELL you!! what I am. Know why? Because what does it matter?? Obama has plenty White votes as Hillary has plenty of Blacks. Get over it.

Posted by: tired | Jun 1, 2008 12:11:19 AM

no thanks for your knowledge, i have plenty.
whtever is a response when you have no response.
and, i would have bet just about anything you were black. thanks for validating.

pp

Thanx!! My boss and my father always say I am a piece of work and I am SOOOO glad, you never having met me and all, that you agree!! I am flattered.

Tsk! Tsk! Tsk! You know what it means when you ASSume. At no point did you hear me say I was an Obama supporter. (As a girlfriend of mine says, check yo-self before you wreck yo-self!). I am not trying to get anyone to vote for anyone. If I was, these little posts of mine would be more severe. I am just trying to share my knowledge with some of you who are suffering with pathological myopia.

To everything else you said, I respectfully respond, "WHAT-EVER!!!"

I certainly don't know why Florida and Michigan decided to vote early. I only know that if I was in one of those states I would have raised hell and pushed hard to correct if I felt the law imposed on me to vote early would have affected my vote this way. I am just asking, but is it because someone thought that voting early would perhaps translate into some kind of advantage for a certain candidate? Who understands the reason this happened? How come this rule of the DNC has not been challenged before as a constitutionally unfit rule? Teaches us to pay more attention to our history, does it not?

Obama was not the only one who took his name off of the MI ballot; Biden, Edwards & Richardson all took their names off of the MI ballot. None of the candidates were able to take their names off of the FL ballot because in order to do so, they would have had to drop out of the race, i.e. end their campaign!

To give zero delegates and zero popular votes to Obama from MI would have been undemocratic. Exit polls showed 46% favored Clinton, 32% favored Obama & 12% favored Edwards. (see Wikipedia on this) If you break that down into delegates, it would have been HRC 59 delegates, Obama 41 & Edwards 15. So, in the end you could have imagined 59 for Clinton and 56 for Obama if Edwards gave him his share of delegates.

The committee also took into consideration that there were many who wrote in Obama's name on their ballot but those ballots were not valid because you are not allowed to write-in a candidate in a primary election.

A difference of 4 delegates for Clinton is not worth taking it to the convention and risking 4 years of McCain.

Clinton should just party it up in Puerto Rico, relish in her victory tomorrow and possibly one on Tuesday and then "work her heart out" to support the Democratic nominee.

what i find most ironic about all this, is that after months of trashing hillary and her supporters, now the bho people want us to join hands, have hillary campaign for bho, and have us vote for him. what is wrong with this picture?

OOOhhhh--a response!!

OK pp I feel compelled to answer you, not that Obama needs my defense. Saying "uncle" instead of "great-uncle" is not an issue--an uncle is an uncle. Saying "Auschwitz" instead of "Buchanwald" is not an issue, liberating people from either of those hell camps is something to be proud of. Who the hell cares where his parent met, like who the hell cares that Hillary's father taught her to shoot? With 8.000 people in church on Sunday morning, let me hear you say what went on. Better, prove to me that you were in church every Sunday for 20 years!!! Personally, I would not have left my church but then I am not running for president. I am not responsible for what other people say and cannot control it. I could very well say Hillary should distance herself from Ickes for his fowl mouth this evening at the DNC meeting, but I bet she won't--but I digress). The last three questions you pose, in some sort of attempt to make numerous these supposed "lies", are the same question so I will not elaborate on them. I will just say that yes a lie is a lie, but a lie is not always intentional. I will give Hillary the benefit of the doubt when she mispoke about the hospital story. It was a lie, but it was not intentional because she assumed the sheriff who relayed the story to her was a reliable source. But it WAS a lie, no? Shall we hold that against her? I think not. The difference is she INTENTIONALLY tells bold-faced lies, and looks right in the camera and smiles while she is doing it. There is no lying contest going on here. But if there was, unlike the nomination, she would WIN!!!

No rules shall be above our Constitution, the highest law of our land. Neither shall any delegates, superdelegates or political affiliations or surogates be above one another in terms of voting rights or any other rights.

ALL PERSONS ARE CREATED EQUAL. Floridians and Michiganers shall be honored with full equal rights and privileges guaranteed by the same Constitution they support and defend. Half vote would be an insult, not only to Florida and Michigan, but to democracy everywhere around the world. Every vote should be equally honored, and any less than equal will not fly.

The DNC's Rules & Bylaws Committee must think twice and cast their vote wisely because it may boomarang and haunt them later. Not only will the people of Florida and Michigan remember their vote tonight, but so will the rest of the nation as well as the rest of the world who look up to the U.S. as the beacon of the free world and democracy everywhere.

I want to leave you with the last words by Someone you might have known vaguely, "Love your neighbors as yourself, and do upon others what you would have done to yourself." Also ask yourself this question: Do I deserve only half the rights and privileges that everybody else in 48 other states enjoy?!

What are the Republicans posting as Clinton/Obama supporters going to do when Obama is the nominee next week? There are very clear contrasts between Obama and McCain. I think Murdoch may be right this time. McCain may well be too flawed to win. We'll see. The light is about to turn on.

Oh, OK Mary, I get it now!!. Hillary wanting to disrupt the process by calling a committee meeting to see if she can change the rules for her benefit is OK. But Obama getting delegates although he wasn't on the ballot is a no-no?, right?

So it depends on who benefits from the rule-breaking! Silly me for not understanding this sooner!!

Rules are rulse. Your words. Obama wasn't complaining about Michigan or Florida, no one was but Hillary and Hillarites (when she started losing). If she had just left things alone, and followed your advice (rules are rules), Obama would not have delegates now that you think he shouldn't have!! Hillary, in her self-serving, Me Me Me-ness, along with her desperation, fails to see the big picture and gave Obama just what he didn't ask for but will only help him--more delegates!!

I imagine that Obama supporters would like to thank Hillary and encourage her to keep up the good work!

Posted by: Bob F | May 31, 2008 9:06:57 PM
so mccain is not knowledgeable? like bho is??? bho cannot talk extemporaniously about anything except "hope and "change". he has absolutely no grasp of the issues without prompts.

Posted by: tired | May 31, 2008 9:42:59 PM

sorry, not about just unity...we do not blindly vote for whom ever the "party" thinks is okay. we DO NOT think bho is okay. we do not approve of his associations/friends/wife/etc. unity is one thing, voting for someone you do not approve of is another. given bho or mccain, i will vote for the patriot who loves the country and calls himself an american.

Posted by: tired | May 31, 2008 10:14:24 PM

why did he take his off?...he did not in florida...

If I walked into a bank and demanded money that was not in my account or a legal loan, I would be considered a criminal. If a politican demands votes/delegates when his name is not on the ballot, I would call that a stolen election. Senator Obama should be ashamed.

RULES ARE RULES AND RULES MUST BE OBEYED

uNLESS YOUR NAME IS NOT ON THE BALLOT AND YOU THINK YOU DESERVE THE VOTES/DELEGATES ANYWAY. OBAMA DID JUST THAT. IT IS VERY WRONG.

Mary, winning overall when you are the ONLY candidate, is that a victory??? And why did she leave her name on the ballot anyway, when she agreed with everyone else not to campaign there? Just in case???

I have beem following politics for a very long time. The first campaign I worked on was for John F. Kennedy. The election in Michigan that gave votes/delegates to Senator Obama who chose to remove his name from the ballot, then demand his votes/delegates be given to him is absurb. He removed his name voluntarily and should receive no votes/delegates. WRONG-WRONG-WRONG. DIRTY-DIRTY-DIRTY

By the way, FoodforThought, your comment clearly shows that Hillary Clinton' supporters, like you, like her, are more interested in your own personal agendas rather than unifying the party to threaten to vote for a Republican instead of a Democratic nominee. Polls last week showed that between 26 and 36 percent of your supporters said they would vote for McCain if Obama got the nomination, but only between 10 and 18 percent of Obama supporters said they would shun Clinton. It goes to show that Obama supporters are more interested in unifying the party than you guys are--oh!, what a surprise!!!! Hey, do what you gotta do.

While I disagree with many of McCaine's policies, I respect him and admire him for his service to this country so he will get my vote. I'm not only disgusted with the DNC, but the thought of this "new Democratic Party" having that much (Presidency & Congress) its just frightening.

We must keep a balance.

Many of these people who are expressing outrage are the same people who have already made it plain that they would not vote for Senator Obama not matter what.

So now that another Avenue of fantasy has been closed to them they once again erupt in anger.

I cannot believe that anyone would vote for McCain who is not an idiot. The guy really doesn't seem to have a clue. He does not have a firm grasp on what is going on here or overseas and he has much too much of an anger problem to be put in charge of a bunch of nukes.

I think many of the people posting here are very angry. But they do not appear to be stupid. And as I said before, I don't think you can make a case for voting for McCain unless you are a really dumb idiot.

Lawrence O'Donnell,a great democrat said. "If you want to pull the party--the major party that is closest to the way you're thinking, You Must, You Must show them, that you're capable of not voting for them. If you don't show them that you're capable of not voting for them, they don't have to listen to you. I promise you that. I worked within the Democratic Party. I didn't listen, or have to listen, to anything on the left while I was working on the Democratic Party, because the left had no where to go."

We don't have to settle for the DNC's choice; we have a choice.

The DNC can count me out.
Oh, that's right.
They already did.

Democracy is being so gamed in our face. You wonder how much longer the media can be Obama fluffers.

Soetoro No,

I'm not blaming anyone else, but rules are rules.

Dave, I know the truth hurts, but the rules are quite clear.

No ads, press confrences etc.- Senator Obama spent about 1M in TV ads and held a press conference(Center for Responsive Politics). The penalty according to the rules 0 votes & delegates.

IW, NH & SC MOVED the date W/O the approval of the DNC, but got a waiver after the fact.

Rules are rules.

Could have been better, the the DNC could have at least allowed the 3/5's of a vote.....

WTF is wrong with the DNC???????

Have they lost their minds???????????

A group of millionaires decides that the average voter doesn't count??

FU!!!!!!!!!!!!

Donna Brazille can kiss my ass and her rules and her mama too! I guess her mama aint Rosa Parks! Damn HER for not following the rules right Donna?

The democrats make me sick! After 2000 they never learned!

DNC+Obama = Bush the III

You now have witnessed the Chicago Way, the way it's done in Cook County: Just take 18,750 votes from one column, one candidate, and move them over to the Chicago machine's candidate.

This time, it was the national Democratic party that did it. It took 4 delegates away from Clinton, with 4 delegates representing 18,750 voters in the Michigan primary, and it just gave them to a guy who wasn't even on the ballot.

In Chicago, they do it with dead people. In the DNC, they do it with live voters, 18,750 Michiganders who wanted their votes in Clinton's column.

Don't vote Democrat, folks -- you don't know where they'll put your votes. They might just give them to the guy from the Chicago machine. First, Cook County. Next, the country.

Today, we watched the beginning of the demise of the Democratic Party. They sealed their fate and Clinton supporters all over the country will be campaigning and voting for McCain in the Fall.

Re:
Paganmist, Did you know that the REPUBLICANS are the majority in the legislature?

Did you know there was another major issue in addition to the date? "PAPER TRAIL". It was a loose loose situation,but with the latter there was no remedy.

Get tha facts!

I think the Obama followers who are happy about this might want to think again.
There will be backlash.

I am sickened by the way my fellow Democrats are acting. The screaming and boorish actions of many at the meeting is astounding.

The voters were ill served by their leaders in FL and MI. And then they want to take it out on the party?

I am not sure if we will recover from this mess. I hope we do. But I think a lot depends, as it has since late Feb. on Senator Clinton's ability to accept that this election is lost for her. The longer she draws on her poor loser act the deeper the pain, the less chance of victory for us rank and file Democrats.

I think that the Obama camp has done a very good job of keeping things on an even keel from their side but the Clintons seem to be on a Kamakazi mission right into the heart of the election.

It is so sad for me personally to think about how I was a supporter of hers.

I do not have the rosy memories of the Clinton years that many do. I supported Senator Clinton none the less. And I sorely regret it now.

I wish she would bow out and as she does I wish she would explain to her supporters about how civilized people behave. What an awful, rude and unsavory bunch of cry babies.

Can we now, finally, get on with the business of beating McCain?

BO just gets closer to an eventual loss in November.

He was given votes he did not earn.

The RBC has found the worst way forward to "unity". It isn't going to happen by selectively applying the almighty rules!

Re:Florida

Timbo, no state party chair has the authority or jurisdiction to grant permission for ads. ESPECIALLY in another state. Get a copy of the DNC rules. That was his campaign initial claim, but it was refuted a long time ago. Get the facts.

Isn't it interesting that no one in the Clinton campaign had a problem with the DNC's rules until Clinton needed Florida and Michigan to have some way to say: "See, I got the most popular votes."? Then, suddenly, the Clinton campaign is sooooooooooooo worried about "disenfranchising" the voters of Florida and Michigan. (Incidentally,the "I won the popular vote" thing only works if you don't count the "uncommitted" from Michigan and you ignore the presumptive vote from caucus states like Washington. This is called fuzzy math.)

Get real people. This is not concern for the voters of Florida and Michigan. This is self-serving, change-the-rules-in-midstream-because-I-have-to-win- somehow. It's generally called cheating. And it's one of the reasons that this voter, who started out supporting Clinton, ended up supporting Obama.

Let's see if I can figure this out...

Ignoring Voters = Democrats
Super delegates = Politburo

Seems to me that the party screaming about disenfranchising voters doesn't really have a problem doing just that... And,for what it's worth, your vote is worth only 1/10,000th of a party insider anyway.

Go Democrats! We can see that you're really interested in protecting out liberty!!

BTW: Maxine Waters - What's all the fuss over "We're going to a, a, a, a, take over the oil companies" anyway. We all know that if you want a job done right you need the gvmt to do it.

DNC - If you punish the voters now you will pay the price later when they turn on you in the election booth. COUNT THE VOTES!

You miss the point Gion. This isn't holding our breaths and throwing temper tantrums. This is fighting for the heart and soul of the Democratic Party. This isn't just about Obama and Clinton anymore. This is about standing up for what is right, and what we see is going wrong with the Democratic Party. There are two wings now, the moderates/centrists represented by Clinton, and the Obama wing which is more extreme liberal. We are fighting to pull the party more to the center, where most of us live. This is about where we belong in the party, or where we don't or even if we have a home with this party anymore. And the consensus is if Obama wins, the party has moved to far left for us. We are the tranditional base, which according to Donna Brazille, isn't needed or wanted anymore, because Obama's vision of the new party is the upper class wealthy, the young, and the African Americans. We've been called old dinosaurs, bitter white, gun toting racists, old white women, or blue collar workers, or lunch bucket Democrats, or Reagan Democrats, we've been labeled so many different ways it's hard to keep track of all of them. We've been invited to leave the party, just as you did, and by God, when you are no longer valued, wanted, or listened too or seen, that is exactly what you do. So yes, we will leave this election, and hopefully the Democrats will realize that abandoning the base was not a smart move and hopefully place value on this voting block the next time around. Obama represents everything we reject, and he doesn't represent us. How could he when he doesn't even hear us? Dean, Brazille, Pelosi, and Obama are abandoning the party of FDR for Obama's new vision. We won't. We'll see if the party continued to move in this direction after November. If they do, we will either find a new party or vote Republican as long as they also continue to move towards the center.

GIO -

Wow new rules! Nice touch! You have taken the RBC Rules and interpreted them line no one else! Fun!

Gio

Yeah yeah yeah -- always somebody else's fault.

The DNC should follow the RULES and be fair to everyone.

Strip Senator Obama of all votes and delegates from Florida since he VIOLATED the RULES (Ads & press conference).

Strip Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina of 50% as well since they also VIOLATED the RULES, but WERE NOT penalized.

Lets pusnish the voters even though they had no control over the process and had absolutely nothing to do with it.

Lets punish the leadership of the party in Florida even though it was the Republican Party who created this mess. They are the MAJORITY in the legislature In CASE YOU DIDN'T KNOW. Lets punish them also for introducing legislature to change the date in an effort to follow the RULES, but failing (legislation did not pass - Republican majority). They also deserve to be punished for the incompetence and bias of the DNC. The DNC could have solved the problem in the same manner as Iowa, New Hamphire, and South Carolina. Lastly, they should be penalized for getting the funds for a revote,approval from the DNC, but BLOCKED by Senator Obama.

People, what do you want? You can have it both ways.

@Thomas

Is that all I can offer up? Regarding what? The evolution of my feelings for Hillary from positive and supportive to, well, what they are now? My opinion of her legal arguments? My opinion of the wisdom of her Quixotic quest for the nomination? No, it certainly isn't, but I have to have dinner and I assume others have other things to do, too. As they say in the Princess Bride: "is too much. I sum up."

McCain Rules!

I just want to point out something that I thought everyone knew by now.
The Constitution has nothing to say about the parties' primary process for choosing its nominee. They can eliminate all the states with an "I" in them if they want to, they can have an arm wrestling contest if they want to. There isn't a Constitutional problem with that. Why do you think the federal courts in Florida keep throwing out the challenges? Hillary Clinton is a smart woman and she knows this perfectly well. She knows very well that Florida is not Zimbabwe. She knows very well that the votes in Fl. and Mi. were not supposed to count, and she signed the pledge that they wouldn't count, and publicly stated that they wouldn't count. She didn't think they would matter because she didn't have a game plan for Feb. 6 and beyond. This is completely transparent. This woman is arguing, with a straight face, that Obama should get 0 delegates from Michigan, in which his name was not on the ballot. Vladimir Putin could not make that argument with a straight face. Their plan for Florida is to have all of the votes count as they were voted. Exactly how this represents a "compromise", they do not explain.
Now that Fl. and Mi. did their dumb thing, and got smacked down, we have to find some kind of way to resolve this without taking it to the convention. Everyone wants their delegates to be seated, and the issue is to how. I feel sure the committee will come up with something as equitable as can be allowed under the circumstances. The question is whether a campaign, which has brought no indication of compromise to anything thus far, will take this to the convention and shatter any hopes of our winning this election. I wish I could say I had faith in Hillary Clinton. In January of this year, I had faith in Hillary Clinton.

Seating of Florida & Michigan and the allocation of delegate SHOULD NOT impact the outcome of the Primaries!

The United States stop being a monarchy a long time ago, over two centuries ago.

This means that no candidate should be awarded an election 'victory' without any campaigning on the ground, but based SOLELY on the prior POPULARITY OF HER HUSBAND!

If Democrats of Florida & Michigan are unhappy with the Republican leaders in their State's agenda, then Dems of Florida and Michigan should cease the whining to the DNC and America; go back to the citizens of Florida & Michigan this November; and WIN BACK THE STATES' GOVERNMENT!

It is obviously that the Dems of Fl & Mi were played by their GOP counterparts.
Notice that the GOP of Fl & Mi settled their Primaries amicably? There is a reason for that.

The witty GOP of Fl & Mi move up the Primaries and settled with their National Party in the hope that the Dems will be in dissension. lol

Why not count the delegates as 3/5ths of a vote. There's historical precedent for that. Seriously, if I can use that word about the late night monologue joke the Dems have become, stuff like this is why I became an Independant after 44 years as a Democrat. Dem leadership simply doesn't know what it is doing.

You people are lying Obama did not campaign in Florida once he was told not to. That funky witch was campaigned. Hillary is the worse type of no person. She will not get the nomination. Cheaters never win..

Kathy from KS

I live in PA. If I show up at the polls before the designated voting day according to the rules or the law...

...my early vote won't count.

I love the logic of this. Obama legally withdrew his name so therefore the results should stand but the fact that the lawfully elected representatives in both Michigan and Florida changed the date and knowingly broke the rules of the DNC is meaningless.

Then the rules don't matter. Priceless.

Cathy - Edit.

Thanks for stopping by, careful on your way out!

The Republicans and the media want Hillary to be the nominee so they can beat her.

That's all that needs to be known.

The media is clearly overtly biased to McCain like they were toward Bush. If we allow them to run this election like they did in 2000 we will have another eight years of Republican corruption, incompetence and greed. McCain is Bush.

The fate of the republic hinges on McCain losing.

Once upon a time, I might have cast my November vote for Obama, had he received the dem. nomination even though I caucused for Hillary Clinton in our "caucus" state.

But something happened or rather many things happened. Rev. Wright, Rezko, Ayers, "dirty campaigning" while trying to claim the "high road of unity and change,"
key advisers of Obama calling Clinton and her husband names, supporters of Obama calling Clinton supporter vile names, and now trying to disenfranchise the voters of Michigan and Florida.

Call me "naive" but I was under the impression that we live in a democracy and that every vote counts. Moreover I until recently thought that the "democratic" party was the party that adhered to this basic principle. Alas I seem to be sadly mistaken. Never did I as a loyal and faithful democrat think I would live to see the day where we as a party would be debating on giving "pre-sumptive votes" to a candidate or "exit polls" would be the guide to how to calculate which candidate gets "x" number of delegates when there was clearly an election and voters cast their votes. In Michigan Obama took his name off the ballot clearly for "political strategy." As Gov. Blanchard said it was a "flawed political strategy, not a flawed primary" in Michigan.

In Florida, Obama's name was on the ballot. Moreover, his name was not only a "household word" but in some people's minds his name was almost synonymous with "that of a messiah." Hillary Clinton did not campaign in Florida but Obama's campaign did run ads on cable news outlets prior to the Florida primary. The voters spoke. Hillary Clinton carried a solid majority of the votes. Nothing difficult about the "math" here. Award the delegates based on the votes cast by the dem. primary voters in Florida.

Once upon a time I used to admire Donna Brazille. But when she pretends to be "uncommitted" and then calls one candidate and her supporters "cheaters" under the guise of a story - "things my mother taught me"- the last shred of respect I once had for Donna has all but evaporated.

For me, this is no longer about Obama or Clinton, it's about the principles that this country was founded upon. If my party - the democratic party - is unwilling to count the votes from these two states as cast, then I am no longer a member of this party.

Sorry Mary - Michigan and Florida shouldn't count. Read the rules, cut out the spin. You should be a Bush press secretary.

Gio,

The problem here is that you want to use a Soviet style result and claim it was fair.

Had Obama been thinking of counting these votes, he would never have removed his name from the MI ballot. Both elections were held with premise that they did not count, and on that basis thousands stayed home. It is wholly dishonest to change the premise of an election after the election has happened. Hillary agreed to it.
There is simply no honest way for her to score from these elections. Her word is worthless.

Dan Jr.

That's simply ludicrous.

Now let's not go calling Hillary names, we don't have to roll in the mud with them. Our mission now is to make sure the Dems have a landslide victory in Nov Dave. The anger and bitterness that some of these people hold won't go away, so it's time to let them live their lives they want to live, and move forward.

Re:MI GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT

Senator Obama was on the ballot,but he CHOSE to remove his name. The DNC rules DO NOT require that. Secondly,Senator Clinton WAS NOT the only candidate on the ballot; that ITS FALSE. While Sen. Obama,Edwards, & Richardson did remove their name, Senator Dodd, Kucinich, Biden, and I believe Gravel kept their name.

Re: Florida & DNC RULES

Senator Obama's supporters keep talking about the rules, but if the DCN was to enforce the RULES, then Senator Obama would have to be stripped of all his votes and delegates because he VIOLATED the rules. He campaigned in FL by spending about 1M in TV ads. and held a press confrence which according to the RULES, is a violation. These are facts not just words;it was reported on the news and documented in various newspapers. In addition, check the Center for Responsive Politics and stop the nonsense.

I look forward to telling all the Hillary supporters who vote for McCain that their daughters can thank them for their loss of reproductive freedom when Roe v Wade is overturned by Bush and McCain appointees if he wins.

Um...ok Debra. You just put most of the people you typed would vote for Obama in a pretty negative bucket. I do believe McCain just denounced a couple of pastors for negative statement, but you typed earlier you would switch party lines. Just proves everything I have typed. I'm not a gambler I READ. I make my choices for doing that. When it is widely known that most college age students are voting for Obama and you typed ignorant youth... Again, you are laughable at best. I give up, stew in your own hatred and fear I have things to do and progressive people of all types that I need to visit today. I think I'll visit some of those "ignorant youths", and "blacks" as you put it, and make sure the are Baracking the vote!!! They are educated enough to know this country doesn't need 4 more years of Bush.

Florida and Michigan voters were unfairly punished because their legislatures screwed up, not because THEY did anything wrong. All they did was cast their votes in good faith for the candidate of their choice.

The delegates should be apportioned according to the vote, which reflectss the will of the people casting those votes. That's the only fair thing to do

I love Lannie Davis. How many high profile Hillary supporters will go McCain in Nov?
Michelle (who has gone underground lately with her angry mouth), had said early on she "didn't know" if she could vote Hillary, Geraldine Ferraro has said "she doesn't know if she can vote Obama". Lot's of Dems WHO WILL NOT SUPPORT THE OTHER CANDIDATE....TROUBLE IN NOV., NO MATTER WHAT. THE PARTY WILL NOT ALL JOIN HANDS AND "HEAL".
If McCain plays his cards right it's all his.
HILLARY OR McCAIN '08

So Lou,

are you on the Clinton payroll? Just wondering. . . .

Would Obama not count MI and FL if he had won them???

Your silence is very telling.

I guess we can all see what the double standard here.

If obama won the two states in question, he would demand all the votes counted for him and it would have been done long ago and he would have been the nominee..capiche???

ADMIT IT!!!!!!!!!!

NO NO NO

NO DOUBLE STANDARDS ALLOWED
HILLARY WON LONG AGO

NOW COUNT THE VOTES

Lou stop thinking in the Hypothetical. We will never know, so let it go. It's time for us to all come together and leave this page be.
Go out and get so sun now why don't you.

Thank you!!! The most educated and positive thing said from the other supporters. Just great.

cheating is good and fair...rules are made to be broken..promises mean nothing...see Bush and company...!!

Lou -- as a Texan who voted for Sen. Clinton in the primary.

We lost.

I want a President Obama -- not a President McCain.

These are the same people that complain about gas and food prices, but are so afraid of positive change they would switch party lines for something as silly as hate and not the betterment of our country. How sad, and what an uneducated way of thinking.

Would Obama not count MI and FL if he had won them???
Anyone care to give a straight answer and not some poppcock list of historical lies Brian..
A real answer to the question only.

Would Obama not count MI and FL if he had won them???
Straight one line answer please.
Obama us citizen supporters please answer the question.

Would Obama not count MI and FL if he had won them???