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Jake Tapper is ABC News' Senior White House Correspondent based in the network's Washington bureau. He writes about politics and popular culture and covers a range of national stories.
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Obama Pushback on the New Clinton Math
May 06, 2008 10:08 PM
What's the number of delegates needed to clinch the Democratic nomination?
Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., today said 2,209 -- including Michigan and Florida, states whose contests the DNC does not recognize.
But on "Good Morning America" on February 22, 2008, Clinton said, "Each of us has to get to 2025 delegates."
(Watch HERE.)
Then there are a series of statements from top officials of the Clinton campaign.
Communications director Howard Wolfson in a memo January 26: "This remains a delegate fight, with 1,681 delegates at stake on February 5th, and 2,025 needed to secure the nomination -- and we are ahead in that fight."
Wolfson, February 12: "We don't think either candidate will be able to get 2,025 delegates without the superdelegates."
Wolfson, February 14: "Neither campaign is in a position to win this nomination without the support of superdelegates. No one is going to get to 2,025 without the superdelegates."
Wolfson, February 17: "Neither of the candidates will get to the number needed to secure the nomination, 2,025, without the support of superdelegates."
And on and on.
- jpt
May 6, 2008 in Weblogs | Permalink | User Comments (105)
How can anyone call Obama someone who "unites" when he chose to run this election cycle against the best woman candidate that we've ever had? His candidacy has SPLIT the Democrats right down the middle. If ANYONE thinks this Party is coming back together after August..no matter who the nominee is...they are wrong. The Party is cooked and McCain will be elected in November.I will never vote for Obama, the face of inexperience and unanswered questions. He is the "spoiler" of 2008.
Posted by: mpwdc | May 7, 2008 9:55:10 PM
I am an HRC supporter - but I say to her Move Over and give Obama the nomination. It is just beyond belief that blacks ran out in droves to vote for him. Do the blacks think that having a black president is going to make thier life's better. Very scary world. Mark my words - Obama will have that racist - hating preacher back in life after the election. I will not vote for Obama in this election - I just think he is full of rhetoric and his racist wife is too much for me to watch. She is so racist - Very disappointed that McCain will be the next Prez. Am I the only black man that didn't vote for Obama.
Posted by: Frank- | May 7, 2008 1:54:52 PM
It is so funny how everyone is talking about how Obama cant close the deal. But isnt it obvious that Clinton can't, and is in no way near closing it. The majority of states that have voted for Clinton has actually closed the deal for her. She did not win, even the states where she was ahead her wins were barely marginal. Come on this "It is mine or no one else's" is getting old. It is obvious this deal was closed a long time ago, her campaign is fueling a dead horse. She should bow out gracefully.
Posted by: Aerica | May 7, 2008 12:59:42 PM
Yes, Obama! You will not allow this cunning woman to spin out lie after lie about the delegate tally. You owe that to your supporters who vastly outnumber hers nationwide.
We will be furious if you ever let this woman try to fool us who are normal, decent and intelligent people.
We trust that the Obama campaign and the Democratic Party will do whatever they need to do to prevent that sort of election ploys that the Clintons are so good at, from taking place.
The people are with you!
Posted by: BoB | May 7, 2008 12:36:36 PM
HEY DARK, I CAN CUT AND PASTE TOO----"DID NOT RUN". WHAT IS YOUR POINT? Hillary did not run either. Both had ads appear due to cable but neither ran in the states. The Florida voters came out and voted for Hillary by a very wide margin. Also I will repeat. The Republican party proposed and voted for the primary date change. Florida and Michigan should have a vote if there is any justice
Posted by: bruce | May 7, 2008 11:58:32 AM
Florida + Michigan + Superdelegates doing what there were created to do, vote for the best candidate in the general election. ='s A Democrat winning in November. Hillary is going to win most of the remaining primaries. The superdelegates were not created to mirror the primary vote. They were created to do just the opposite. To vote their experience if it was needed to avoid yet another November drumming.
Posted by: bruce | May 7, 2008 11:54:52 AM
Anyone who still argues that Florida and Michigan's votes should could is no Democrat and certainly not a thinking person.
The parties have rules. It is that simple. Florida and Michigan willingly broke the rules. The party sets the rules and enforces them. These two states ignored the rules. The primaries don't count.
Obama DID NOT RUN in either state. He bowed to the party rules. A true Democrat would. If he had run he might have won...who knows. But it is ludicrous to argue (after Hillary already agreed previously with the Democratic decision to not count their votes) that these incomplete contests should count.
The nominee should represent the Democratic party. If that individual cannot follow the party's rules now...what makes you honestly believe ANY of their (ok, her) campaign promises will be kept. She is desperate and is simply looking for a way to continue. It is time to move on.
Posted by: Thomas Dark | May 7, 2008 11:49:04 AM
"DID NOT RUN". WHAT IS YOUR POINT? Hillary did not run either. Both had ads appear due to cable but neither ran in the states. The Florida voters came out and voted for Hillary by a very wide margin. Also I will repeat. The Republican party proposed and voted for the primary date change. Florida and Michigan should have a vote if there is any justice.
Posted by: bruce | May 7, 2008 11:48:12 AM
Congratulations to Obama! Were it not for some Rush Limbaugh freaks crossing over you would have won Indiana as well as NC. Congratulations to voters! We have the opportunity to elect someone for President who has principles and values. This is a first in my life and I am 40 years old. Hope will conquer fear. Enough corruption and war. Obama will put McCain in a retirement home.
Posted by: emma | May 7, 2008 11:40:16 AM
Anyone who still argues that Florida and Michigan's votes should could is no Democrat and certainly not a thinking person.
The parties have rules. It is that simple. Florida and Michigan willingly broke the rules. The party sets the rules and enforces them. These two states ignored the rules. The primaries don't count.
Obama DID NOT RUN in either state. He bowed to the party rules. A true Democrat would. If he had run he might have won...who knows. But it is ludicrous to argue (after Hillary already agreed previously with the Democratic decision to not count their votes) that these incomplete contests should count.
The nominee should represent the Democratic party. If that individual cannot follow the party's rules now...what makes you honestly believe ANY of their (ok, her) campaign promises will be kept. She is desperate and is simply looking for a way to continue. It is time to move on.
Posted by: Thomas Dark | May 7, 2008 11:37:21 AM
Obama is not so wonderful. He is crafty, yes, but as the months go on that will start to show. He is a pretty good actor and his script writers have Deval Patrick's speeches and game plan in their briefcases. Deval Patrick, African-American Governor of Massachutes wrote the script in his victory in that state. In the runup to the Wisconsin primary Obama's writers slipped up and Obama gave a speech with lines almost word for word on one of Patrick's speeches. They won't make that mistake again. Obama with little experience is a wellspring of empty promises that he would find difficult to deliver if he were elected but he also has a poor chance of being elected antway when the entire country has their say about him versus an admired war hero with many years of political trials and errors. Of all the candidates that started the primary Hillary has always been the best qualified to wrestle with the spirited McCain. Biden would have been pretty good too though. If the Supers do not do the right thing we are in for four more years Republican vetos and bad decisions.
Posted by: bruce | May 7, 2008 11:35:35 AM
It is simply amazing how Clinton supporters try to manipulate the system they have apart of the last twenty or so years. First, she does not set the terms by which the nominee is selected. Furthermore, she does not determine what the prerequisites are as the race unfolds. Secondly, they did not expect this dynamic captivating upstart to raise as much money and inspire so many people to his CAMPAIGN. One must never count your eggs before they hatch, she did last September. Okay, so he said he would win Indiana, big deal! No Clintard expected her win would be so minimal. The people have spoken, the black blue collar, black middle class, independents, republi-crats, white blue collar, educated, elites representing the intelligentsia, voters under sixty-five, college students, and the independe-crats are aligned with Obama. Clinton is a fighter, smart, crafty, and a great philosophical politican; however, she is not the only one to possess those qualities. Finally, if she has gained so much momentum in three and a half victories out of the last six, what about the thirteen in a row that he won. If Hillary had done that it would have ova!
Posted by: Poetic Justice | May 7, 2008 11:09:22 AM
The Florida Democrat primary mess was created by the Republican party. Republicans control the House and the Senate there and moving the date was their idea. Want to know why Obama wants no re-vote there. In the January primary voting where both candidates were on the ballot and neither campaigned, but due to nationwide cable tv channels both had a few ads run there, Hillary beat Obama with 50% of the vote to Obasma's 33% with Edwards getting 14%. In popular vote she took 871,000 to his 576,000. In the general election only Texas, California and New York will have more electoral votes than Florida's 25. These will go to McCain if the superdelegates do not do what they were created to do. Vote for the person who can win for the party in November. With McCain there will probably be little help for the 47 million uninsured citizens in this country.
Posted by: bruce | May 7, 2008 10:54:44 AM
people i NC must have lost there mine as so many have if he wins lets see what they are saying in four years,
Posted by: janet in wv | May 7, 2008 10:51:54 AM
Hillary knows how to fight.
She also knows very well how to lie, cheat and steal. She will contiune to do everything she can to spin the results and attempt to change the rules of the game in her favor. Her pride and lust for more power are blinding her to the reality of the situation. Looking at last nights total she lost both the delegate count and the popular vote by a margin of 200,000+.
It's time for the superdelegates to step in and seal the nominiation for Obama. The longer this drags on the worse the DNC looks and the more challenging it will be for a dem to mount a challenge against McCain.
Sorry Hillary it's time to pack it up and stop thiniking about yourself and support your party.
Posted by: Portland OR | May 7, 2008 10:40:37 AM
I wonder what Hillary is defining as a win. Is it the nominee or nothing? Perhaps she would consider it a win if she could just pay Bill back the money. Perhaps she is looking to strike a deal with the DNC, where she as some other position - lead democrat in the senate. Her database and connections are still strong. The democrats face two vary different scenarios if Hillary bows out and supports Obama with all the energy and skill she is putting behind her own campaign vs. Hillary bows out, complains about the DNC, complains about sexism, complains about how the democratic party has lost its way. She could really cripple the democrats, not only with Obama's ge bid, but with very democrat up for election this nov.
Posted by: X marks the spot | May 7, 2008 10:18:39 AM
Obama should have won Indiana by a wide margin as the highly populated northwestern area is in the Chicago TV market and the state is a sister to Illinois. He has no punch. Obama is a poor debater. He is good at delivering a script. Actually his entire campaign and his speeches are based on the sucessful campaign of Massachutes Govenor Deval Patrick. He is a lousy debater, really lousy if you listen to his answers in the last debate. It is becomming clear that he is no shining knight. John McCain is ready for prime time. Hillary would beat McCain in the crucial debates and Obama certainly will not. Like with Dukasis, Kerry and McGovern, the left wing of the Democratic party have ruined our chances in November. I dearly hope that the Supers do what they were created to do and vote for a real candidate. God bless America.
Posted by: Bruce | May 7, 2008 10:18:00 AM
It doesn't say a lot for Hilary that she cannot see that she cannot win under the current rules which she has previously accepted. If she were to win under new rules, there would be an enormous outcry and she can't see that either.
Hilary wants to win this so bad that she puts herself ahead of her party and everything else.
She has gone as far as she could possibly go and if she had done something spectacular in North Carolina, I could see how see could rationlise staying in the race.
It is so obvious that it is over and if she had any judgment at all, she would now exit from this race.
Instead, it would appear that she wishes to battle on and that speaks volumes for her win or lose at all cost approach.
She has fallen a long way since last year when she thought the democratic nomination would be handed to her on a plate. She must be astounded by what has happened and I think it has clouded what judgment she may have had.
I would only add that her kitchen sink strategy was very dissappointing. It was born out of desperation and demonstrated perfectly her true devisive nature.
I do not think there is an awful lot that Hilary can look back upon during her campaign and be proud of. I think both she and her husband let themselves down enormously.
They got beaten by a genuine underdog who came from a long way behind and who demonstrated the leadership, vision and organization that Hiliary did not.
Posted by: G Skuse | May 7, 2008 9:44:13 AM
The Clinton campaign has become such a parody of itself. I love it! Hilarious! The math has changed from popular vote to delegate count to superdelegates to big states to swing states to this... this where they change the rules of the game YET AGAIN. I almost expect to turn on my TV tomorrow to see Howard Wolfson arguing that the canditate who collects the most box tops should get the nomination.
Posted by: Jeff | May 7, 2008 9:16:45 AM
Senator Barack Obama, brilliant intelligence, consistent integrity, proven judgment, amazing leader of the American people! Our President!
Posted by: wooha3 | May 7, 2008 9:03:32 AM
Teddaddy: Hillary is not going out "gracefully." There is nothing graceful about sliming your opponent with lies and twisted information, allowing your campaign to send out robo calls to give confusing information to voters just prior to a primary. Obama has won 32 primaries to her 16 maintaining his integrity, in spite of Hillary's willingness to cheat. Thank God, America that this scary women will never be in the White House again.
Posted by: Katy | May 7, 2008 8:56:12 AM
I'm an Obama man, but I hope Hillary keeps going through the rest of the primaries. She can't win, but she's waged a tough campaign that has hit Obama on every weak spot imaginable. I think its prepared him well for November. I hope she keeps going but starts beating on McCain now, as Obama will surely take the nomination. Its time to realize that Hillary/Obama are not enemies, nor should their supporters be. Time to focus on keeping McCain out of the White House.
Posted by: Brian | May 7, 2008 8:53:46 AM
We all know why Obama wants this to end now. He is tired, bored, and so afraid he and Michelle will screw up again.
And surely there are many more secrets coming out.
Hillary isn't quitting. She beat Obama in his backyard. Ouch....
Posted by: cindy in nc | May 7, 2008 8:41:39 AM
to Bishop - do not even dare to put Obama in that mess. That always were and be clintons, playing dirty games. Are You on their side?
Well, dirt always sticks to dirt. Your choice.
Wehave another direction with our Honest, Young, Strong and Smart President.
Dirt is just dirt, we will wash it out - your clintons would not go anywhere. Trust me.
Posted by: LINDA,FL | May 7, 2008 8:37:08 AM
I want to tell a bit about some figures first( cause we will count figures in November, right)
#1. Pick any state, Red preferably. Compare: there are twice more Dems were voting in this Primaries than from GOP. Can You propose some different scenario in November? You would not, if You are realist.
#2. No Wright, even 10 of those would not impress as 100 years in Iraq . That might be just few” crazy “ Dems voting for 100. 2 months of Wright’s theme already made him annoying. With time it would not bother more than mosquito. But 100 years. It will stay for Years to come. Whatever McCain will say to explain – it would not be so impressive as 100 years. Not many words , just Figure 100. It did it’s work perfectly. Dems could not even dream abut such long term gift.
#3. I am 55. My daughter is checking on me every week (at least). My mother is 74 . I am checking on her every day. Now, compare : 46 -71. Should it be established in Oval House one more Red Phone for this ordinary, very human and very possible occasion? This is just life. For tough time we should have President, who sure would be ready. We do not need every day suffer with “ if ”.
(plus there are also more other aging features: memory, misspeaking, slow mind, etc ( I am 54. I know how is it : simple example – I asked my daughter for the cell phone with most simple features. I taught her computer, but now I do not want IPOD.) It is aging. it is natural. And it presents in GOP’s Candidate and certainly works against.
#4 McCain will never ever have the kind of money Obama will easy get from our support. GOP never had that case important. But now it will play the best. Cause we will collect for Obama as much as necessary No matter how much . yes, we can.
All the above (with many same sort of pluses) just demonstrate that Mr. McCain just….out of TIME. My friends, he is a nice guy, but not a leader for future.
Also: not every stodgier is good general, even after Vietnam .
Seat in Senate does not give all knowledge necessary in Economy and finance ( and it did not in this case)….etc.
And the last In short GOP Primary run McCain have not been a frontrunner. The run was also too very short to be a proper training for November.
Young, Honest, Strong. Smart. Knowledgeable - Obama is our President.
Posted by: LINDA,FL | May 7, 2008 8:24:07 AM
to Misskeys : Yes, I do have some more :
Young, Honest, Strong. Smart. Knowledgeable - Obama is our President.
Posted by: LINDA,FL | May 7, 2008 8:23:21 AM
grapes are looking different when they are within your grasp or out of reach.
Posted by: maz hess | May 7, 2008 8:21:16 AM
Bruce,
if you go to realclear politics you will see that it was Clinton not Obama that had double digit leads in the polls in Indiana.
I keep hearing this spin and it is not true. Clinton has been favored in Indiana in both single and double digits all the way back to March according to their data. The most he was ever favored is by 5 in early April. A poll the same time period favored Clinton in double digits.
Also polling clearly shows that the majority have a less favorable (more negative) opinion of Hillary then Obama.
She is now seen has being an attack dog and her attacks are viewed by the majority as unfair.
Posted by: Anna | May 7, 2008 8:13:13 AM
Maybe if she stays in the race and keeps collecting donations she can use them to fun for reelection to the Senate.
She has not joined the DNC in putting funds towards the general election but Obama has.
She continues to collect money for the primaries but she won't win.
Its odd.
Posted by: Ana | May 7, 2008 8:04:33 AM
Now is the time for a graceful exit. Show the country and your party that you really are the stateswoman that so many perceive you to be.
Posted by: Jim Jones | May 7, 2008 3:56:39 AM
She won't quit. And she has the perfect team in place for her:
Harold Ickes, a top adviser to Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's campaign who voted for Democratic Party rules that stripped Michigan and Florida of their delegates, now is arguing against the very penalty he helped pass.
Ickes explained that his different position essentially is due to the different hats he wears as both a DNC member and a Clinton adviser in charge of delegate counting. Clinton won the primary vote in Michigan and Florida, and now she wants those votes to count.
"There's been no change," Ickes said. "I was not acting as an agent of Mrs. Clinton. We had promulgated rules and those rules said the timing provision ... provides for certain sanctions, automatic sanctions as a matter of fact, if a state such as Michigan or Florida violates those timing provisions."
"With respect to the stripping, I voted as a member of the Democratic National Committee. Those were our rules and I felt I had an obligation to enforce them," he said.
Posted by: Oscar Meyer | May 7, 2008 2:54:19 AM
And how can you with a straight face say Michigan should be counted? That its even still an issue is crazy. This is politics run amok! I guess its hardly surprising considering those sworn to uphold and protect the Consitution are the ones trampling it and it occurs on a daily basis... Apparently you can lie your arse off and say I misspoke or better yet you just say that's old news, next question... *sigh*
Posted by: Alan | May 7, 2008 2:16:24 AM
Hillary supporters now make me see what they mean by 'drank the koolaid'. She changes her stories so often and just out right lies... and I thought McCain was a pander bear. I think she will go Lieberman now that she's shown her true colors. I don't see how she even became a viable candidate the way the right just hates her. They'd cut their hands off before voting for her... And the way she just won't give up and keeps moving the goal posts and tries to change the rules... Its just like Bush. I'd rather vote for Grampy McCain and hope he's been playing the right until he gets elected and finds his soul again... and he's old, so he might not do a whole 4 years...
Posted by: Alan | May 7, 2008 2:07:04 AM
I am really tired of the Clinton campaign complaining that Obama is outspending them 3 to 1 on these primaries. Does it occur to anyone that he has been able to raise so much more money than she can...... What does she think ? That if she is the nominee, Obama will raise money for her ? NOT >>>>>>>
Posted by: Ron | May 7, 2008 2:02:50 AM
It's the blacks that gave Obama lead in NC.. 90% to Obama and 10% to Clinton??
If you were to split the black votes in same fashion, Clinton is the clear winner in every possible election. If you are to tally the wins by counties, Clinton has 80% over Obama's 20%. Ofcourse, that 20% counties is where blacks are thickly populated. Does it not say something about Black community?? Shame on every Black leader out there and they are totally color blind in this race and they keep hinting that race is playing big time against Obama.. C'MON, it is utterly unfair for Clintons -they gave Blacks due respect all along.
Posted by: dss | May 7, 2008 1:52:07 AM
"As much monies that Obama has gotten he should have walked all over Clinton and still she running pretty close doesn't that tell us somthing"
Doesn't the quote above tell you something about the typical clinton supporter?
Posted by: Rick | May 7, 2008 1:41:18 AM
Alaska EX,
Im from Michigan, and the sentiment Im seeing from around my state. Hillary better hope we do not have a revote.
Posted by: Morris | May 7, 2008 1:29:28 AM
Why are people upset that people are calling for Hillary to get out of the race.
#1 Think about it, when was the last time democrat nor republican primary's lasted this long.
#2 Clinton has noway to win this race, without people feeling Obama was stripped of the nomination. Wether popular vote or delegate count. NOWAY
#3 Has somebody stated earlier, what about if the roles were reversed, they wouldve pushed Obama out of the race.
Obama cant win for winning
Posted by: Morris | May 7, 2008 1:23:39 AM
Question...
If Obama is unelectable and he is beating Hillary in the election, what exactly does that say about Hillary?
Posted by: Brian | May 7, 2008 1:05:56 AM
What I see with every post on every
forum is that the negative, cynical,
or bigoted are the ones that support
Clinton; and the ones that have some
sense of conscience, compassion,
hope, and belief are the ones that
support Obama.
Posted by: Richard Bentley | May 7, 2008 1:05:54 AM
Senator Clinton, the better of the two candidates is still in the race. Obama's dance and prance must not be working very well on intelligent voters or he would have a larger share of the votes. Hopefully the voters of Michigan will have a chance after all. Can't see how only 48 states should count when there are 50. Is this not a state's right issue?
Posted by: Alaska EX | May 7, 2008 1:04:58 AM
fontapa, one big thing against Obama in the Fall would be that maybe hundreds of thousands of Hispanics who voted for Hillary will vote for McCain. The Clintons are favorites in that community but they like John McCain as they like his immigration policies. Another thing, all mine, is my theory that many thousands who have voted for Obama were male and some female Hillary stoppers. I am old enough to have learned that the idea of a woman President is too much for many men in either party. These Obama votes will not go to Obama later. Lastly Obama is not and probably will not be an A list debater and John McCain, who is ready for prime time, will beat him in the crucial Presidential debates. I could go on.
Posted by: bruce | May 7, 2008 1:03:26 AM
Two things.
1.) It's not over until it's over
2.) Obama is unelectable
Posted by: Real | May 7, 2008 12:58:40 AM
Bruce, on one thing we agree completely.
I was a big McCain fan in the past. It's been heartbreaking to watch him completely sell out to the Bush Base at every opportunity.
It does give me hope though. With every passing day, his platform grows further away from both the dems. That'll make it easier to get the losing dems supporters to vote for the winner in November.
No matter how you slice it, McCain is the wrong choice. Obama or Hillary in 08 (preferably Obama LOL)
Posted by: fontapa | May 7, 2008 12:57:59 AM
I hope you realize that it is not winner take all. They will split the delegates in a state where he should have won by a wider margin. It will probably be uphill from here for him but who knows? I know that Puerto Rico is going to Hillary and I do not mean that as a joke as those will be important delegates. Today hurt Obama in that he basically splits in Indiana where he should have won if he had any punch but it also hurts Hillary because the North Carolina count was so much in Obamas favor and winning the popular vote by the end is probably out of reach now. The Supers will just have to do what they were created for and decide who has the program and the skills to take on John McCain. Just today McCain has threatened to make the Supreme Court even more conservative than it is. I am so ashamed that I sent him 50 bucks in 2000 wher he was challenging Bush. I like McCain but I think he is not what the country needs at all.
Posted by: bruce | May 7, 2008 12:52:11 AM
How is he unelectable? He's faced the most abysmal month of his career, with a concerted media hyping of the Wright issue 24/7. He's up against a former first lady and her husband the ex president. He's up against the Republican Nominee, the Party, and the entire array of conservative political groups, who've been attacking him exclusively and ignoring Clinton.
He was a newcomer with no political machine, favors to cash in, and almost zip for name recognition.
In spite of all of this, he's won one state in a landslide, and he might possibly win the other. He's ahead in the pledged delegates, the popular vote, the number of states one, and he's been drawing in superdelegates 3-1 compared to Clinton, bringing her former 3 digit lead down to the teens. He's fundraising faster than any candidate in history.
How's any of that make him seem unelectable?
Posted by: fontapa | May 7, 2008 12:44:59 AM
As much monies that Obama has gotten he should have walked all over Clinton and still she running pretty close doesn't that tell us somthing
Posted by: Dolores Verges | May 7, 2008 12:42:35 AM
"What does it matter if it ties? This is Indiana. It would still be a loss for your guy."
Who said anything about tie? He's down by 20,000 votes. There's a 150,000 left to count in Lake County, and it's trending 75/25 for Obama. If it keeps up like that, he'll get about 112,000 to her 38,000 in Lake, netting him 74-75.000. That would give him a net lead on Clinton of 50,000+ votes.
We're not talking about a potential tie. We're talking about an Indiana victory for Obama.
Course that could change, so lets just wait and see shall we?
Posted by: fontapa | May 7, 2008 12:39:52 AM
As much monies that Obama has gotten he should have walked all over Clinton and still she running pretty close doesn't that tell us somthing
Posted by: Dolores Verges | May 7, 2008 12:33:15 AM
What does it matter if it ties? This is Indiana. It would still be a loss for your guy.
Posted by: Bruce | May 7, 2008 12:32:58 AM
Dolores, you have a point there. I think you need to start by cleaning house with your leadership. They gambled your delegates on a fools errand, and lost. The irony is, they did it because they wanted more say in how the nominee is selected, and in the end they get no say.
Florida has been terribly disenfranchised in the past, and you are now as well. However, the ones disenfranchising you are your state leaders. Give em the boot, and give em a second kick for me, will you?
Posted by: fontapa | May 7, 2008 12:31:31 AM
Uh, Bruce, I wouldn't follow your candidate Clinton on calling Indiana too soon if I were you. As of right now, he's only 20k behind her. Lake county, the last one to ring in, has another 150,000 votes left to count, and so far that county has split 75/25 for Obama.
Man, why does anyone bother with sports, following this stuff is vastly more exciting... it actually means something.
Posted by: fontapa | May 7, 2008 12:26:20 AM
Try as much as possible to diminish Barack, link him to the devil himself...it will not fly. Yes, he's no JFK but he's darn close! He is the one person who is inspiring people now..NOT MCCAIN, NOT HILLARY NOT BILL ..ask Caroline Kennedy and million others of this generation. Forget about the last generation, they will get it later on.This is our time....GO BARACK.
Posted by: dave | May 7, 2008 12:24:35 AM
Why is it that Fla has to be the stste that cannot get the votes counted in this race and again we also lost it to the chad do you remember who it was given to Why bother to vote in Fla
Posted by: Dolores Verges | May 7, 2008 12:23:00 AM
Bruce -
Your details about Indiana are either misremembered or completely fabricated. That state's been a virtual tie since day one. They've both shifted in and out of a 2-4 point spread, but about everyone agrees that Clinton's demographics and Obamas Chicago proximity put them at about a 50/50 split, with no advantage to either party.
Oh, but you did say spin, didn't you? Sorry, my bad.
Posted by: fontapa | May 7, 2008 12:14:56 AM
TedDaddy -
You're too right. Let me also add that the county that's been closing the gap so dramatically still has about 150,000 votes left to count. The trend so far for that region is a landslide for Obama, so it's possible we'll see a reversal.
I'd give about anything to be a fly on the wall when Clinton finds out her victory speech was a wee bit premature.
Posted by: fontapa | May 7, 2008 12:12:09 AM
Ok, I'll spin it. An Obama win in North Carolina was never really in doubt and he was up not long ago up double digits in Indiana and greatly favored, because of the fact that Illinois and Indiana border each other and Chicago TV is big in the highly populated northwestern Indiana section, so I think it looks like it was not much of a day for Senator Obama.
Posted by: Bruce | May 7, 2008 12:11:51 AM
All I can say is Hillary is one class act. If Americans had half a brain they would see right through her!
We have just begun to see
the real Hillary --->
EVIL HILLARY.
Posted by: mick8535 | May 7, 2008 12:01:54 AM
Michigan and Florida have a lot of delegates, and they knew that if they voted early enough, they'd annoint a candidate, and the rest of us wouldn't get to participate in the nomination.
They knew that doing this was against the rules, and they knew that the consequence was to lose all of their delegates.
They did in anyway. They lost their delegates.
Now these two big bully states who tried to hijack the nomination process and devalue or downright eliminate everyone elses voting power are daring to cry disenfranchisement?
It's like the rapist calling foul for a kick to the jewels.
And every time you folks get all big and mighty and threaten to give the general election to McCain unless you're given your bully way, you just convince those of us in the other 48 states (plus territories) to tell you guys to pound sand.
We caught you trying to steal our nomination, and we're the ones disenfranchising. We weren't born yesterday, and no matter how big you think you are, we still outnumber you in the rest of the country.
Next election, maybe you'll think twice about jeapordizing your say in the nomination with such a blatant and dishonest power grab.
And if you are from these states and don't agree with your state leaders for doing this, vote the bums out. Make it clear you don't tolerate this. If this scuffle causes the Dems to lose in November, the fault will lie with these state leaders, and no-one else.
Posted by: fontapa | May 7, 2008 12:00:07 AM
Im tired of the press turning this into a black & white election always giving Hillary the fuel to press on. As a white man one thing I can tell ya is Hillary Clinton is as corrupt as they come. She will take away more than she gives. I would rather have Bush as president, at least he lies to your face.
Posted by: Michael M | May 6, 2008 11:57:44 PM
Now is a once-in-a-century opportunity to split the Dems into a centrist party and a liberal/left party. When these two tendencies attempt to occupy the same place, it's like mixing oil and water. It's very hard to beat a war "hero" regardless of how unqualified he may be. Americans care about the economic meltdown, the price of gas, the lack of health care, etc., but they care far more about the flag, waging war, and our brave "heroes." Hillary can't beat McCain because almost half of Americans can't stand her. Obama can't win because he's black,so he looses the racist third of the electorate before he even starts.
McCain has the life expectancy of a fruit fly and will be lucky to make it through his first term, then Obama and Hillary can fight it out again.
It's a bad situation, but hey this is America and the rest of the world better take cover, because after the election we will be attacking Iran.
Posted by: Captain Jack | May 6, 2008 11:54:15 PM
Point #1:
The Democrats cannot beat the Republicans unless the Democratic Party nominee wins both Florida and Michigan this November. But if the Florida and Michigan Democratic primary votes are not counted by the Democratic National Committee, then the hypothetical conclusion is this: too many thousands of Michigan and Florida Democrats will not vote in the general election, thereby giving the election to the Republicans. Ask yourself: Would you feel that you were disenfranchised if your vote did not count?
Point #2
Ms. Kennedy -- Barack Obama is no Jack Kennedy. Jack Kenedy said he did not run as a Catholic but as an American.
Mr. Obama's religious beliefs, some of which are given voice by Rev Wright's, demonstrate exactly what your father campaigned AGAINST.
Barack Obama cannot help but to have been influenced by, and indeed, has had to have agreed with much of Rev. Wright's radical, mean-spirited, unAmerican dogma.
Why say that Barack endorsed that disdainful leadership? Because he remained in that church throughout Rev. Wright's God Damn American speeches.
If Barack as a community leader didn't know about Rev Wright's preachings, then how can we rely on Mr. Obama to know what is going on in a political administration? When has he been tried and tested in administrative leadership?
Posted by: Bob Fenton | May 6, 2008 11:47:14 PM
To the person who said it was "their fault and they should not be allowed to vote" in Florida and Michagan. In Florida the House and the Senate are controlled by Republicans and it was their proposal to move the primary date up. By the way to the guy who used the word "bigot". I am for Hillary because I have always been a fan of hers. I know that long time Congressman Charlie Rangel and long time Congresswoman Shelia Jackson Lee who are supporting Hillary are probably not bigots. They are both African-American. You phony Democrats who re-cycle Republican bull about Hillary should be careful about what you say, you may just be wrong.
Posted by: Bruce | May 6, 2008 11:44:45 PM
Hillary is tenacious.It's amazing how she maintains her staying power. One reason that she's got a strong institutional support. Carvyl even branded Richardson a traitor when the latter switched to Obama (I guess Bill Clinton and Hillary are one and the same in the minds of her supporters). Just mention the name Clinton and any American don't have to think about who the person is. A year ago, if you hear the name Obama, most might even think that he's a relative of Bin Laden. And guess what: He continues to beat Hillary and is now ahead of her.
Obama is clearly the underdog. It took a miracle to beat the inevitability of Hillary, and that miracle is Barack Obama.
Posted by: Gerard | May 6, 2008 11:41:28 PM
People... People... Let us not forget that Barak O'Bama has not won the Democratic nomination as of yet. Neither has Hillary Clinton. "It ain't over 'till the fat lady sings," I believe is how the quote goes.
As far as I can tell, neither of the candidates will win the nomination without the Super Delegates. And, the last I heard, there are not enough of them committed to one side or the other to make a good call in regard to who will win the democratic nomination.
Myself, I lean more toward Hillary than I do O'Bama. However, I would be satisfied with Daffy Duck in the White House if it means getting our current dumb-ass (and that's the nicest thing I can think of to say about him) out of there.
Posted by: Walt | May 6, 2008 11:40:55 PM
Obama is a great once-in-a-generation politician who has the judgement and capacity to unite and lead this country. In other hand, Hillary is liar, untrustworthy, divisive and full of negativity. People make up you mind to form line behind Obama and make this country again more prosper and strong than before.
Posted by: Megan | May 6, 2008 11:39:48 PM
It's so easy for one to say Clinton should quit the race. To me this is unAmerican. First of all, where's the democracy that the whole world is envious this nation has for long time? I think the voice of the other states should be heard and counted including Florida and Michigan. If this will be the case (hope it's not), it will become a bad precedent that other countries may use against US in the future. Secondly, giving the nomination to Obama without the outcome of the primaries of the rest of the states is not only a violation of voters' rights but also is an insult of Hillary supporters like myself, not to mention I am a republican. Thirdly, I think a lot of Clinton supporters will switch to McCain should Obama be the nominee.
Posted by: Nestor | May 6, 2008 11:39:09 PM
If Obama wins the dem. nomination McCain will be our next president and heaven help us. McCain and the republicans will eat him alive in November.
Posted by: jdavis | May 6, 2008 11:37:38 PM
Clinton lost. Again. Tonight she lost in popular vote margin and delegate margin. Why is she making victory speeches? Did I miss something here?
Step down and end McCain's free ride!!! Democrats, pressure her to step down - cut your losses and move on!
Posted by: jks | May 6, 2008 11:36:54 PM
mosmith,
You are disregarding Obama's negative attacks. You are disregarding the fact that the DNC is dictating the rules about counting Michigan and Florida. Clinton has managed to continually stand in this election, and Obama has not been able to close the deal. It's as simple as that.
=======================================
Obama is a lousy bowler too!
Posted by: WestCoastMessenger | May 6, 2008 11:32:25 PM
according to a recent survey more people favor obama than clinton, more people favor clinton than mccain, but more people favor mccain than obama
so if you want republicans to lose, do not vote for obama because he will lose against mccain
GO HILLARY
Posted by: bob | May 6, 2008 11:31:11 PM
Obama- The man our children's children will read about. Face it bigots and partisans, he's more of a man than most of the men you know. Truth, honor, and dignity will change history.
Obama, the skinny kid with a funny name will be our next President.
Posted by: Obamatized | May 6, 2008 11:26:44 PM
If anything unpleasant happens to Obama, I will vote for McCain before I would vote for Hillary.
Enough said!
Posted by: cyberbian | May 6, 2008 11:25:40 PM
If clinton wins I wouldnt vote for her, has a black men I loved the Clintons, but the way she ran her campaign, the negative attacks, the way she and her campaign is dictating the rules, is repulsive.
Posted by: mosmith | May 6, 2008 11:25:27 PM
Hillary is DONE! And if you listen to her Indiana 'victory' speech carefully, its seems she realizes this as well. She will be dropping out before West Virginia.
The Democratic party will unite behind Obama and Republican rule will come to an END. McCain has no chance against a united democrtaic party. He's a nice enough guy but he's simply too old and lacks the vigor needed to handle the issues facing the US today. People sense this everytime he speaks.
I'm completely re-energized about Obama and will drop a bunch of cash on his campaign - again. Cant wait for January 2009!!! Go OBAMA!