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Rove's Latest Electoral Maps Have Clinton Stronger Than Obama Against McCain

May 19, 2008 1:48 PM

Electoral maps put together by the consulting firm helmed by Karl Rove, and obtained by ABC News, show Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-NY, to be a stronger general election candidate in a hypothetical general election match-up against Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., than Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois.

Click HERE to see the maps and charts from Karl Rove & Co., obtained by ABC News.

States are allocated in Rove's exercise based on an average of public polls, which many pollsters would tell you is a rather unscientific way to look at the data.

Still, for political junkies the information is interesting.

In the first map from Karl Rove & Co., McCain leads Obama in a hypothetical match-up, winning states totaling 238 electoral votes to Obama's 221 electoral votes.

There are 538 total electoral votes. At least 270 are needed to win the presidency.

The trend is positive for Obama -- he is up 14 electoral votes from May 11, and McCain is down 13 electoral votes.

The map shows McCain winning Florida, New Hampshire, West Virginia and Wisconsin. States with 79 electoral votes -- Connecticut, Colorado, Iowa, Michigan, Nebraska, New Mexico, North Dakota, Ohio, and Virginia -- are toss-ups, within a margin of error of +/- 3 points.

In the hypothetical Clinton-McCain match-up, Clinton leads with 259 electoral votes to McCain's 206 electoral votes.

States totaling 73 electoral votes -- Connecticut, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, and New Mexico -- too close to call.

Clinton, too, is trending upwards, with a gain of 11 electoral votes since May 11.

The big differences between Clinton and Obama, beyond the her larger number:

Clinton would make competitive some states that Obama would lose -- such as Missouri and New Hampshire -- and she would win others outright, such as Arkansas, Florida, Ohio and West Virginia.

On the other hand, McCain would handily win beat Clinton in some states that Obama made competitive, such as Colorado, North Dakota, and Virginia. Some states that Obama would win, such as Minnesota and Nebraska -- Clinton would lose to McCain.

Occasionally this election cycle the electoral maps of Karl Rove & Co. have reared their heads. In March, McCain adviser Mark McKinnon was spotted holding some of these maps, as reported by Texas Monthly.

- jpt

UPDATE: Clinton referenced this blog post (kinda) in a campaign appearance today.

May 19, 2008 | Permalink | User Comments (602)

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User Comments

You folks are FINALLY getting it! Hillary is the stronger candidate against John Mccain this Fall. That is why we voted for her and that is why we continue to support her.

Despite the negative image the media has been portraying. We all know and believe Hillary is the best candidate.
Today's gallup polls 5.28 clearly state this again

Posted by: rlc | May 28, 2008 11:56:39 AM

One major thing to consider re those fence sitters. Will they want a right wing Supreme Court or one that keeps Roe vs. Wade, etc I think when push comes to shove they will realize that they can't afford having a right wing president make the next 1 - 3 Supreme Court appointments.

Posted by: yes08 | May 23, 2008 11:13:21 PM

The Rove map says Clinton is leading with 259 electoral votes, however when you add up the individual states on the map, she gets 274. According to the map, Hillary is already over the top.

Posted by: Monica | May 21, 2008 10:03:10 PM

Obama's supporters assume if you're not in the tank for their guy, it's because of some latent racist motivation. His race is not the problem. It's his lack of a record. I'm interested in some demonstrated competence in actually governing. Is that too much to ask? Obama speaks of a "post partisan" and "post racial" future. What's that mean? Has Obama been a hardworking senator willing to take risks and give others credit to get things accomplished? No. Has he been working on projects and proposals to bridge the racial divide in this country? No. Has he done anything with his time in office other than run for President? No. Those are the reasons I will never support Obama for President. Not because I'm a racist, not because I'm a Republican (I've never cast a vote in my life for anyone with an (R) next to their name), and not because I'm just a bitter Hillary supporter. I'm only interested in competence and Obama can't demonstrate he's able to competently run the federal government.

Posted by: sgt. lebow | May 21, 2008 2:31:14 PM

Fanatic Hillary supporters= pathetic sore losers= self-destructive idiots= Hillary supporters for McCain.

May you get what you deserve. I feel sorry for your children.

Posted by: stacey | May 21, 2008 1:46:12 PM

Obama has a huge electoral problem, and anyone that thinks he is going to win Virginia (much less NC or Indiana) is nuts. McCain will sweep the south without even trying- not having to bother campaigning in Florida will allow him to concentrate on places like Ohio and Nevada, as well as try to pick off Wisconsin and NM. Obama HAS to play defense in those places (particuarly the West) and then HAS to either sweep them or take Ohio (which McCain has a nice lead in). If Obama takes the advice i see here and tries to go on the offensive by winning in the South, McCain is going to win in a walkover.

Posted by: Mark Buehner | May 21, 2008 11:34:44 AM

Northern Observer said: PS US Vet: counties with military bases have voted overwhelmingly for Obama. I think yer out of step with your fellow vets.


You do realize that most military people vote absentee ballots from their home state, not the state they are based in.


Posted by: Rob | May 21, 2008 10:59:13 AM

this country has never had a black president and i believe this scares people, for only a white person has ever set in the white house. what gives white people the right to make decisions for the entire world, as if they are the only ones with any sense. when will everyones vote truly count. why all of the negative remarks about Senator Obama, this man has layed his life on the line for americans just by running for the presidency, why cant white america give him the benefit of the doubt, i believe he would make a great leader. what would surely guarantee the democrats the white house would be Obama/Clinton ticket. They both have had record breaking turnout to vote in these primaries.a lot of people say it wouldnt work,but i say if they truly love america and its people they would make it work

Posted by: Al | May 21, 2008 2:33:57 AM

*Connecticut* a swing state? CT's gonna go for Obama OR CLinton by at least 10. Same with NH, particularly w/ Jean Shaheen campaigining. Iowa's also going blue, as is New Mexico w/ the Hispanic vote and Richardson campaigning for either candidate. And anyone claiming McCain is going to win Wisconsin is just ridiculous.
But hey, if the Republicans are stupid enough to listen to the guy who lost them 30 House seats and 6 Senate seats, I won't argue with that.


Posted by: Greg | May 20, 2008 10:18:18 PM

Anybody who looks at this( legitimate) data, notices what many of us have intuitively sensed, that as the racial and gender-based polarization of this race has heightened, Appalachian and Rust Belt whites have run from Obama, probably because of the patriotism/Wright questions, and older white women have continued to flock to Hillary, because she's an older white woman whith a legitimate shot at the presidency; note the difference in anti-Obama versus pro-Hillary motivations. The reason her numbers have shot up in Florida and Ohio is that those two aforementioned groups of voters who have shifted, who were previously 1) mostly McCain supporters (whites) or 2) mostly undecided (women) since March are now saying that they'll vote for Hillary in November, but will continue to be undecided or for McCain if it's McCain vs. Obama. The question I have is, how many of those whitesd who were previously McCain supporters but are now "pro-Hillary" will go back to McCain if Hillary were to win the nomination? If that were to happen, say goodbye to Ohio and West Virginia, Hillary supporters. And she never had a chance in Colorado or North Dakota or Virginia or Iowa, so she doesn't have anything to fall back on if she loses Ohio or Michigan, unlike Obama.

Posted by: AR | May 20, 2008 9:31:37 PM

This is what makes this country so sad and short of being the great country it could be...
(1) Karl Rove is a repub (Bush gangmember)
(2) Obama is not Muslim he is Christian but why should that matter, Bush is an atheist, what does a person religion has to do with it as long as he or she believes in GOD and have this country's best interest at heart
(3) Obama speaks of having a dialogue with this country's enemies, what is so wrong with that if peace can be achieved and accomplished and the saving of lives on all sides, that is an act of a man of GOD, why must the USA always choose to use violence to meet its goal of peace without ever considering discussion or exchange of ideas or channel of communication or conversation or dialogue
(4) Some view Obama as a black candidate; remember his mother is white, Obama is both black and white, but many in this country fail to accept this because they are short minded and are affected by the color of a persons skin verse that person character, why would a person skin color makes the difference for a person to serve this country if they have a chance to bring it back into the fold that represent high morals and value, peace and democracy for the world to see and follow
(5) Many excuses are being made to hide the racism in this country, excuses of tides with the reverend Wright (what of Jerry Farwell, Pat Buchannan, reverend Hagen), excuses of his name Baraka Hussein Obama, excuse of having no experience in the White House (Most Presidents didn't either; Hillary doesn't have any she was the wife not the President or VP), etc.
(6) Why not elect a person who is Black, White, Red, Brown, Muslim, Jewish, Catholic, Hispanic, Oriental, or even female, what ever; this country is a mix of all people from around the world that is what is so special and how this country has the potential to be so great, but to vote because someone doesn't look like you is stupid and dumb. This is why this country has so many problems (racism, sexism, all the –ism ever thought of)
Many not all who are expecting to vote against Obama is doing so not because of any difference in policies or programs but because of the -ism that is like a cancer in this country, but they will deny it.
All that is asked is let's find peace and prosperity and harmony together. Let's start voting for the best person be it man or woman, black or white, republican or democrat or green party or independent, Christian or Muslim or Judean, and not because of any hang-ups.
Let's start a new revolution of peace by moving away from the old ways of politics and take control of our government not have them continue to control US…

Posted by: PBOARD | May 20, 2008 9:30:13 PM

So...if McCain wins the GE, he will have a heavily Dem congress to work with. With a Dem quorum, he'll have to "cross the aisle." He's not averse to that anyway.

If Hillary heads the Dem ballot in the GE, I vote for her. That would ensure practical changes as quick as possible and the restoration and advancement of the programs and issues I care about. Best option.

If the Dems don't have the brains and foresight to run with her, then why should I not go with McCain? The prospect of such a junior politician as NObama handed that much power on a plate is far scarier than his JM's temper.

Posted by: indy in MD | May 20, 2008 7:36:32 PM

Obama won Wisconsin by nearly 200,000 votes. 58% to 42%. He won every age group on almost every country.

Yet Rove wants us to assume Wisconsin will go to McCain.

Posted by: Mr. Unite Us | May 20, 2008 6:29:28 PM

I knew it had to be Rove that's been egging Hillary on; talk about dirty tacts why else would she win certain areas that are Republican dominated according to certain study groups; sure isn't independents, and what about the tracking polls (people say anything and everything against what they do, I know of some in New Hampshire --Lindbaugh's law of confusion and Roves tactics just may come back and bite them -- especially noticeable in Pa, where you could vote and then change back to Republican all at the same time.
Wonder what happens when all these Republicans who voted democratic in the primary decide to stick with the winners and give Obama the vote!! Yes, He Can!!

Posted by: Paulet | May 20, 2008 6:06:22 PM

LATEST SUFFOLK POLL OUT OF OREGON TODAY: Obama's lead drops from double digits to 45% to 41%. Kentucky looks to be a blow out for Hillary Clinton.

Posted by: Patriot | May 20, 2008 3:47:22 PM

Karl Rove is the last advisor the Democratic Party would want. Anything he says, believe the opposite.

Posted by: lisa | May 20, 2008 3:35:54 PM

Is there any reason why Democrats should put any stock in anything from Karl Rove? I sure can't think of one.

Posted by: Kenneth Fair | May 20, 2008 3:35:52 PM

I can not afford another McBush…I simply CAN NOT. McCain is not only continuing Bush’s policy, but he is got anger problem. I am afraid he might use nuclear bomb, he is got soft skin. People who work with him know this fact! I cannot let angry person in the white house.

Posted by: John Elias | May 20, 2008 2:11:47 PM

Dear Fellow Democrats. Regardless of who the Democratic nominee will be, WE MUST UNITE. The next president will make very important choices. Obama and Hillary are inches apart; but they are both miles apart from McCain. THE NEXT PRESIDENT COULD APPOINT AS MANY AS THREE SUPREME COURT JUSTICES. These are appointments for LIFE, and they will radically affect us. The Supreme Court is who has given us women rights and who has given Blacks rights (as well as allowing us freedom of choice and basic civil rights). If you do not believe me, find out for yourself what these new appointments will mean to you. Please do not get mad if your candidate does not win. Instead, think. Think about what your vote will mean to you, your children, each other, and the planet. VOTE DEMOCRATIC. We cannot withstand another four years with McBush!

Posted by: Marilyn | May 20, 2008 1:59:00 PM

Dear Fellow Democrats. Regardless of who the Democratic nominee will be, WE MUST UNITE. The next president will make very important choices. Obama and Hillary are inches apart; but they are both miles apart from McCain. THE NEXT PRESIDENT COULD APPOINT AS MANY AS THREE SUPREME COURT JUSTICES. These are appointments for LIFE, and they will radically affect us. The Supreme Court is who has given us women rights and who has given Blacks rights (as well as allowing us freedom of choice and basic civil rights). If you do not believe me, find out for yourself what these new appointments will mean to you. Please do not get mad if your candidate does not win. Instead, think. Think about what your vote will mean to you, your children, each other, and the planet. VOTE DEMOCRATIC. We cannot withstand another four years with McBush!

Posted by: Marilyn | May 20, 2008 1:57:41 PM

Go Hillary, Be Independent and we will back you 100%. Don't let the biased media and Osama's supporters pull you down. Obama will have no chance WHATSOEVER if you are Independent!

Posted by: Christina | May 20, 2008 1:50:58 PM

To All Hillary supporters,
The DNC's Rules and Bylaws Committee is meeting on May 31 to make a decision about Florida and Michigan. Send a message to the DNC telling them to count the votes and seat Florida and Michigan's delegates.

Please help to spread this message to everyone you know. Thanks

Posted by: Christina | May 20, 2008 1:46:28 PM

David said: Furthermore, the rantings of Rev. Wright are not reflective of Obama's views on anything.

YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS! OBAMA CHOSE TO ATTEND A BLACK LIBERATION THEOLOGY CHURCH FOR 20 YEARS, AND CHOSE TO HAVE A VERY CLOSE RELATIONSHIP WITH ITS RACIST AND ANTI-AMERICAN PASTOR. FOR YOUR EDIFICATION, HERE IS A DESCRIPTION OF BLACK LIBERATION THEOLOGY WRITTEN BY ONE OF ITS FOUNDERS, JAMES H. CONE:

“Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community … Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love.

DAVID: I'm sure if Hillary Clinton had attended a white racist church which had the same theology as that described above, you would be giving her the same free pass you seem so compelled to give Obama, right?

Posted by: Obvious Guy | May 20, 2008 1:38:15 PM

Either of the Democrats should be able to see off John 'More of the FAILED Same' McCain.

I'm a Blue Dog and I'll be doing whatever I can to make sure that the failed reactionary party of American politics will not win by their usual tricks of smear and fear.

Sen. Obama is a pragmatic progressive, not a radical leftist. Furthermore, the rantings of Rev. Wright are not reflective of Obama's views on anything. Nor can Obama be blamed for receiving unwanted and unsought 'endorsements'.

Given how close the two Democrats are on the issues, there is no reason why supporters of the losing candidate shouldn't support the party's presidential nominee.

Sen. Obama has had the kitchen sink thrown at him in recent weeks and he has responded with grace, candor and dignity.

Posted by: David | May 20, 2008 1:27:19 PM

SHOULD DEMS EVER BELIEVE KARL ROVE?????

Posted by: Marilyn | May 20, 2008 1:18:14 PM

Maybe it is time to split off and form a really viable 3rd party with Hillary Clinton as our candidate. With her solid numbers plus the moderate Republican vote she might put together a coalition similar to Ronald Regan. I for one am really having a hard time supporting the ultra left DNC and the ultra right RNC. We need a REAL 3rd party. Come on people! GO HILLARY!!!

Posted by: NavyHeloMom | May 20, 2008 1:15:14 PM

the Republicans are disappointed that Hillary will not be the nominee. Rove is trying to spin. They know that nothing would have got their dispirated base more motivated that going to the polls to vote against her in the GE. Ha Obama will crush McCain!

Posted by: AndyM | May 20, 2008 12:48:40 PM

SO MANNY OF YOU KEEP FORGETING, HOW MANNY PEOPLE THAT VOTED FOR BHO,HAVE REMORSE AFTER FINDING OUT WHAT HE IS! THAT MEANS THEY WILL NOT VOTE FOR HIM IN THE GE! NO MATTER WHAT,GO HRC OR INDEPENDANT 08

Posted by: RELD1127 | May 20, 2008 12:33:47 PM

Obama has developed a strategy to con Hillary supporters into voting for him using various ploys, including: 1. The "Supreme Court" card, i.e. if Obama doesn't win, McCain will appoint conservative judges. 2. The "Roe v. Wade" card, i.e. if Obama doesn't win, the Supreme Court will overturn Roe v. Wade. 3. The "race card,", i.e. if you are against Obama, then you are a racist. 4. The "real Democrat" card, i.e. "real Democrats" will vote for the Democratic nominee whether they like him or not. 5. The "Hillary would want you to vote for Obama" card, which is self-explanatory.
Obama, his supporters, the DNC, the party elite, and the mainstream media have conspired to marginalize the millions of Democrats who have voted for Hillary, and they will now be using every trick in the book to "bring the party together" to further their ruthless ambitions. They will want you to forget all about the months of biased press, the biased party elite, the insults, and the race-cards. They will want you to forget that the Democratic Party now is the party that stands for disenfranchisement and the rationalization of racism. They will use any method to persuade you to vote for the man who they have preordained as the Democratic nominee. DON'T FALL FOR IT!
Whether you write-in Hillary, if possible, vote for John McCain, or sit out the election, remember that your action or inaction could result in the election of the inexperienced, deceptive, ruthless and divisive Obama.

Posted by: James | May 20, 2008 12:28:47 PM

Obama is gonna crush McCain in the general and Rove knows it. The only hope he has is to promote as much as possible a split in the Democratic Party that lingers into November. Which is why we see so many republicans posing as democrats on the internet spewing division and misinformation. Ain't gonna work this time, but hey evil is as evil does so I guess you got to fulfill your nature, right?

PS US Vet: counties with military bases have voted overwhelmingly for Obama. I think yer out of step with your fellow vets.

Posted by: Northern Observer | May 20, 2008 12:08:49 PM

I know one thing and that is Obama is
not going to win in GE. His experience leaves alot to be desired.

Posted by: Melissa | May 20, 2008 12:03:22 PM

McCain may not live until November and most certainly won't receive the convention bounce Obama will see.

Posted by: BS | May 20, 2008 11:32:41 AM

Some seem to think Democrats should believe Karl Rove, really? This is the same guy whose magical maps said the Republicans would hold onto Congress in '06 after he said Bush would be declared victorious over Gore before 10 pm election day (he was just a few months off). This is also Obama's lowest point since he is being attacked by Hillary and the Republicans while the Republicans give Hillary a pass and preconvention general election polls are not to be trusted (ask Dukakis). If I hear another person talk about counting the Michigan straw poll, my head will explode.

Posted by: Really | May 20, 2008 11:29:13 AM

The saddest part about this election is that the media and many in this country got on the emotional Obama wave and it derailed Hillary Clinton, the only real chance we had at retaking the White House. I'm an African American and I don't believe Obama will be elected for one minute! He's inexperienced, has no substance and is too soft. We just gave the nomination back to the Republicans, because when the WHOLE, ENTIRE country gets ready to decide and sees Obama they will see a black man. When they see McCain they will see a white man...Who do you think the country is going to choose?

....food for thought

Posted by: Eric | May 20, 2008 10:58:10 AM

IT IS A FACT she is, not a tactic, reality. Why should we nominate a straw man who will be knocked down. Then, we have only ONE CHOICE.

NO OBAMA.

Posted by: mj | May 20, 2008 10:46:36 AM

IT IS A FACT she is, not a tactic, reality. Why should we nominate a straw man who will be knocked down. Then, we have only ONE CHOICE.

NO OBAMA.

Posted by: mj | May 20, 2008 10:46:29 AM

Hillary leads the popular vote, yet some Democrats call us "delusional" I'm sorry, but aren't you the same folks who bayed at Bush in 00 and 04 about who won the popular vote.

Democrats are supposed to be leaders who respect the rank and file...The Obama folks seem much more content with the party elite...Good luck with that!

Posted by: shawn | May 20, 2008 10:44:19 AM

IT IS A FACT she is, not a tactic, reality. Why should we nominate a straw man who will be knocked down. Then, we have only ONE CHOICE.

NO OBAMA.

Posted by: mj | May 20, 2008 10:20:28 AM

It's pretty sad that the Republicans are pointing out to the nation what the Superdelegates are failing to see! This entire nominating process has been a sham and the media should have kept their noses out of it. We should go back to the days of campaigning on trains and in the back of pickup trucks. The media only gets to report the results after the polls close without 2 weeks of analysis and speculation as to what "might" happen. Let the voters decide who gets to be President.

Posted by: Darla | May 20, 2008 10:19:40 AM

i think the reason sen. clinton is the stronger against mccain is because she is the smarter of the three on the issues.
sen. clinton CAN articulate the difference in how the dem. will take the country in the better direction than mccain and co. obama CANNOT do that.
obama cannot talk without a prepared
speech.

if sen. clinton is not at the top of the dem party ticket,
the only people to blame for whatever a mccain presidency brings are the democratic party leaders.

Posted by: jgaw | May 20, 2008 9:33:49 AM

What's with all this "Hillary would win in the GE?" Puh-leeze, this is the EXACT logic the Clinton campaign had when they thought Obama was a non-issue. Sure, put her on the ticket and watch every republican who got nauseous over Clinton 1.0 come of the woodwork to vote against her.

I'm voting for whichever democratic nominee is on the ticket. And I suspect anyone who considers McCain's "projected" 2013 pull-out will do the same. That or buy stock in body bags.

Posted by: Megan | May 20, 2008 9:17:16 AM

To the poster who said, 'you may not like Rove, but he is a political genius'. Yeah, right. Look at the results of the 2006 election that he directed. He lost control of the both the House and Senate. Rove has been exposed and he is a loser.

Posted by: PhilBgood | May 20, 2008 8:59:54 AM

The electoral college is EXACTLY what the voters and super delegates need to be looking at. Obama may win the democratic nomination but it means absolutely nothing to our party and position on the issues if he CAN'T win the general election. He is a flawed candidate and the democratics will be taking a huge risk with him as our candidate. It's time to sit down and objectively select the candidate and ticket that will win the White House. Hillary has the much better shot looking at candidates one on one. But, an Obama/Hillary ticket would also seal the deal.

Posted by: JD, Pittsburgh, PA | May 20, 2008 8:36:22 AM

Obama is the better candidate for the democrats since he won the most delegates and popular vote unless you consider Hillary's fuzzy math of giving Obama no votes in Michigan and caucus states. The only way she can win would be for the superdelegates to overrule the voice of the people. But then many Obama supporters would stay home and she would have less of a chance of winning than Obama. Hillary may have been the better choice if the electorate chose her, but they didn't and its too late.

Posted by: Steve Courton | May 20, 2008 7:13:38 AM

I can't stand Rove but, he is a good political strategist. The radical leftist will never concede to needing the moderates in this election and that will be their downfall. Obama has so disinfranchised the moderates of the democratic party that even if only some of them don't vote or go McCain, that will be enough to swing states during the general.

Hillary is correct when she says she will win more electoral votes in the states she has won, the numbers don't lie. Those same states that Obama lost, if even he loses only 20% of those votes that will be enough to swing the state.

The leftist democrats have thrown the baby out with the bath water and refuse to see the bigger picture for nov. This is all because they want change and "they want it now". Any political change within a party takes time but, the younger voters will have to learn the hard way and that is the inexperience of Obama.

If you just can't vote for Obama, GO INDEPENDENT!

Posted by: Average Joe | May 20, 2008 6:32:51 AM

Anyone who gives credance to anything Rove says is making a mistake. The credibility ABC gives Rove reflects on the credibility of ABC.

Posted by: riddelup | May 20, 2008 6:31:33 AM

If anyone is electable, they should first of all win the primaries to prove their electability.

How could you lose the qualifying series and argue that you will be the best in the finals.

Many people have lost their commonsense to sentiment!!!

Posted by: Geldo | May 20, 2008 6:26:37 AM

The Republicans don't know how to do anything but question patriotism, even though they're a party of draft dodgers and their record is one of complete destructiveness toward America. They KNOW they have nothing to run on except smears and phony issues, For the last 14 years of ruling Congress and 8 years of ruling the White House they have ruined the country in many ways. And now the dirt has hit the fan and they have nothing to run on. So the McCain plan of attack is to make Obama look like an Arab-Islamist sympathizer and an appeaser of terrorist groups. You can bet we have seen only a small foreshadowing of how big this smear campaign is going to become.

But, in these hard times for America.instead of putting us back on track as they should, what do they do? They launch diversionary attacks laced with low-down slander.

On the contrary, it is Republicans who SHOULD be held accountable for their essential lack of patriotism and their gross dishonesty. In the end, their leaders have to be judged for inheriting the world's only superpower -- economically, militarily and morally -- and making a disastrous mess of things with their abuse of power. What did Ronald Reagan used to ask? "Are you better off now than you were four years ago?" How about eight years ago?

The fact is: Republicans deserve to lose. And they may have another think coming if they try to defeat Democrats by substituting scurrilous slander as a way to get voters to forget their super-failures. This overly self-congratulatory, arrogant GOP party fails to understand the deep-seated ANGER AND ANTIPATHY of a vast majority of average eople toward their bad President, his war, the high gas prices, the bad economy, foreclosures and roadblocking of reasonable reforms. The GOP if it were smart, would ‘cut the crap’ and ‘burn the Bush’…that is, if they want to avoid a bloodbath in November, but they appear to be too blind and stupid to do that.. They deserve to lose, and I hope they do.

Posted by: JL | May 20, 2008 5:55:20 AM

Karl Rove would never try to mislead us, would he?

Posted by: DennisNC | May 20, 2008 5:23:54 AM

And we all believe Karl Rove. Don't we? Lol.

Posted by: DennisNC | May 20, 2008 5:20:16 AM

Also US Vet,

You are absolutely right, this is a total dis-information campaign by Rove and the Republicans...

Good luck getting any of Hillary's rabid supporters to agree though. All I can say is Hillary must brew up some strong Koolaid!!

I know if the shoe was on the other foot (Hillary was actually winning on someplace other than Planet Clinton) then most Obama would probably back her over McBush.

However, these people are completely unreasonable. They lie, make up all kinds of crazy theories and "delusional facts" of how she can still win. And when that doesn't work they just beat their heads against the wall, until they are brain dead for her!

That witch must cast a powerful spell, that is all I have to say! Oh yes one more thing, it is time for her to get on her broom and fly away!!!

Posted by: Davis | May 20, 2008 3:56:34 AM

Rove is a McCain advisor. I wonder how accurate these numbers are? I think somebody is betting on his dog in the fight. McCain? Can you say dis-information project?

Posted by: Also US Vet | May 20, 2008 3:48:31 AM

Hillary supporters,

OF COURSE ROVE WANTS CLINTON!!!

People these are the Republicans, what do you think they are going to say?? We want to run against Obama, knowing he is going to crush McCain??

The Republicans know Hillary has such high negatives and with all the baggage and the SNIPER FIRE (and other lies), they can beat her with their eyes closed!!

Who had a rally in Oregon with 75,000 people in attendance yesterday?

Who had a rally in somebody's backyard in Kentucky yesterday begging for money?

If Hillary runs against McCain it will give the Republicans a chance to "pivot" and change this to a race about integrity. Then the "Sniper fire" videos and all the Clinton's other lies will run in a continuous loop in October - they won't even need a October surprise!

PLEASE LOOK AT WHERE THIS "ROVE MAP" IS COMING FROM AND GIVE ME A BREAK!!

Let it go and put the same amount of effort into getting the Democrat elected that you do backing this losing candidate! It's over for Hillary....

Obama 08!

Posted by: Davis | May 20, 2008 3:28:46 AM

Hillary Clinton quoting Karl Rove to support her candidacy! What a hoot! She's REALLY running on empty!

Posted by: Tom in California | May 20, 2008 3:19:30 AM

I didn't need Rove's consulting firm to tell me this. I have known all along that Hillary was a much stronger candidate than Obama, and I'm sure the Republicans have known all along.

Why do you think Rove was offering Obama advice on how to win the nomination? And then a few weeks afterwards when the news media had "crowned" Obama, Rove was on the news again criticizing Obama's bitter comments and making fun of him.

Come on.....is it really that hard to see who the Republicans want to go up against and who they think is weaker?

Posted by: Henry | May 20, 2008 2:49:48 AM

The last thing a scoundrel can do for his party that desperately needs to lose for its own sake and that of the country is mock up some bogus analysis and pretend Clinton is stronger against McCain so that the GOP can coalesce and continue its ill-fated alliance with the Christian Right. This man has no credibility. The emperor has no clothes.

Posted by: Reed | May 20, 2008 2:33:42 AM

Hillary will win Florida, Ohio and West Virginia if she runs against McCain. McCain will win them if he runs against Obama. Any sensible person should be wondering what Obama is saying when he says we will have to give up our SUV's, not eat the food we want and adjust our thermostats BECAUSE we are only 3% of the world's population using 25% of the world's energy. What is he saying when he says Iran,Venezuela and Cuba are small countries and don't pose the threats that Soviet Union did in the 60's. Duh!! Terrorists with nuclear arms !!??? Wake up Obama your dream is over.

Posted by: mpwdc | May 20, 2008 2:27:12 AM

Interesting Rove's analysis. I had Rove stereotyped until quite recently as a sinister and manipulative figure behind the scenes orchestrator of Geo. Bush's re-election. And he may still be all of the above.

However, his "genius" when it comes to political analysis is undeniable. Hillary does have the electoral map and even if one were to only exclude the "caucus system" in determining the winner of delegates, the whole picture would be a lot different. Much of Obama's delegate lead and popular vote have come from "caucus states" and many of those "caucus" states are traditional "red" states that will never vote for any democrat come November.

I live in one of those "red", "caucus" states - Kansas - which will be voting for McCain, come November. The last time Kansans chose a democratic nominee for president was 1964 and that was a "sympathy vote" because JFK was assassinated in 1963.

Hillary - on the other hand has won most of the "big blue" states that any democratic nominee must carry and she has done well in many "swing states" that a democratic candidate will need in their column.

For those who think Obama is going to turn all those "traditional red" states "blue", I would say prior to revelations about Rev. Wright, Rezko, Ayers, etc., Obama's own "bitter" comments, his wife's divisive and nasty comments, there was a chance. Now that chance has evaporated.

As for me, I'm no republican. I've been a life-long democrat and have always voted democrat since I was old enough to vote. I'm now 60 years old. However this year, if Obama gets the dem. nomination, it might be the first time in my life I vote republican.

The DNC and the Obama campaign think they can bring around Hillary supporters because they say so. How ridiculous! Clinton, her family, her supporters are "savaged" by Obama advisers, supporters, and many in the MSM and then we are just supposed to overlook that this has happened. (Never mind the suppression of votes in Michigan and Florida. Don't think for a moment that voters from those 2 states are going to buy the "party line" about breaking the DNC rules come November if Obama gets the nomination without their votes being fairly counted.)

But I still believe Hillary Clinton is the best person to lead this country and she will prevail because the democratic primary voters are saying over and over again that she is "the one they have been waiting for."

Posted by: Cathy in Ks. | May 20, 2008 2:09:10 AM

Gaberp said: If it is so obvious that Clinton would win in the general election and Obama wouldn't, why does Rush Limbaugh call for Republicans to vote for Clinton in the general election. Wouldn't he want to face the weaker candidate?
_____________________________________

Because Obama is ahead, and Limbaugh wanted to prolong the bleeding.

Posted by: James | May 20, 2008 2:05:48 AM

Obama is going to lose badly to McCain.

My bet is these predicitons do not take into acocunt the mass exodus of Moderate Democrats either.

Posted by: Brian | May 20, 2008 1:46:21 AM

The myth of Karl Rove's incredible electoral intelligence is seriously overstated - as is the myth of his sudden nonpartisanship.

Posted by: credulous | May 20, 2008 1:30:01 AM

If it is so obvious that Clinton would win in the general election and Obama wouldn't, why does Rush Limbaugh call for Republicans to vote for Clinton in the general election. Wouldn't he want to face the weaker candidate?

Posted by: Gaberp | May 20, 2008 12:59:48 AM

The commentator on PBS said those states which Obama won are Democrat states but Hillary won Dems and Rep states.
It means Hillary is a better candidate to beat McCain.
what's DNC thinking?

Posted by: catleya | May 20, 2008 12:59:24 AM

'Come on Bill, NU,

Those 100,000 people at the "Elton John" concert weren't there to see Hillary pal...""


that happened to be a fund raiser for Hillary..... ;-)
GIVE 'EM HELL, HILLARY!!!

Posted by: EYES WIDE OPEN | May 20, 2008 12:49:37 AM

If Obama gets the DP nomination he will capitulate in general election...
Democratic party is excluding Clinton supporters like me from the process. It is no way I will forget that few months later. Any family & friend I know feels that way...
That Party needs an expensive lesson...

Posted by: ARBEN Camaj | May 20, 2008 12:48:27 AM

I'm not sure how old you are, but I am old enough to have marched in the 1960's for civil rights. I have always been strongly opposed to racism, in any form. Before Obama came on the scene, I had no knowledge of his religion, black liberation theology. When I first heard about it, I decided to research the issue (research is a large part of the profession I am in). What I found out disturbed me greatly. Rev. Wright, who Obama has acknowledged as his "mentor and spiritual adviser" for 20 years, preaches black liberation theology. Rev. Wright also acknowledges that his theological mentor is James H. Cone (both of these admissions are on the church's website. I obtained several of the most well-known books by James H. Cone, and read them. Once I did, I saw the rants of Rev. Wright in a different light. These rants were not the exception to the rule, in Obama's church, they were consistent with the racist theology to which Rev. Wright and Obama subscribe. Here are just a few quotes from Cone's books, and you can be the judge as to whether or not you consider them to be disturbing. ******* (1) “To be Christian is to be one of those whom God has chosen. God has chosen black people." (2) "While it is true that blacks do hate whites, black hatred is not racism." (3) "All white men are responsible for white oppression." (4) "Theologically, Malcolm X was not far wrong when he called the white man "the devil." (5) "If there is any contemporary meaning of the Antichrist, the white church seems to be a manifestation of it." (6) “Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community … Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love." *****

Here is an excerpt from the Southern Poverty Law Center website about Active U.S. Black Separatist Hate Groups: “Black separatists typically oppose integration and racial intermarriage, and they want separate institutions -- or even a separate nation -- for blacks. Most forms of black separatism are strongly anti-white and anti-Semitic, and a number of religious versions assert that blacks -- not Jews -- are the Biblical "chosen people" of God.” ******

Does this remind anyone of Rev. Wright’s depiction of the “black Jesus” who is murdered by “the white man?” ******

It is axiomatic that if I had attended a white racist church for 20 years, and considered its white racist pastor to be my “mentor and spiritual adviser,” it would not be unreasonable to assume that I am a racist. Likewise, if one attends a racist black liberation theology church for 20 years, like Obama did, it is not unreasonable to assume that he is a racist.

Posted by: Truth | May 20, 2008 12:47:28 AM

Yeah right. Karl Rove - you wish.

Obama 2008

Posted by: Deborah | May 20, 2008 12:19:13 AM

I think the youth turnout for Obama will weaken in the fall. A big reason I credit his energy now is just spring fever for teenagers. When school starts back and they can't be interns all fall because of heavy class loads I think a lot will change. Plus people will start to focus energy on things like football, thanksgiving and christmas. Especially the higher paid people and the kids from those families. I think if the democrats really want a solid base it always in the parties best interest to attract those who work for their living. Clinton already is a name brand product in those housholds. Obama is already an elitist in them. Lets get Clinton in there before it is too late.

Posted by: Kelly | May 19, 2008 11:57:53 PM

I think that Obama and Rove have the same maps....that would explain Obama's current campaign appearances.

Posted by: Jackie | May 19, 2008 11:54:02 PM

I'm pretty familar with Karl Rove. He's kind of a legend here in Texas. I can't stand Bush and never voted for him.

The fact remains that Rove is a pretty good political analyst dating all the way back to Bush I....There is no scientific way to know exactly who will win an election, but on a state by state asis you can get some idea of who's ahead. An averaging of polls rather than specific polls have been pretty good signposts in this election.

When Obama's electability has been questioned it was never about race...It was about votes and the electoroal college.

McGovern, Dukakis and later Carter trying for a second term were examples of grassroots primaries that didn't translate into electoral college victories. I understand that the media is caught up in the story, but they need to realize that so far the huge Obama crowds have not resulted in a significant amount of votes over Clinton.

If nothing else happens in this election Democrats must go to a winner take all primary system. That's how you pick the strongest candidate.

Posted by: Jackie | May 19, 2008 11:52:06 PM

First, nobody made Obama take his name off of the ballot. Edwards, Dodd and Clitnon all left their names on the ballot. Obama is an idiot. If he had experience he would have known to leave it on the ballot and maybe he would have won by now........... Second, I PAY SOCIAL SECURITY OUT OF MY PAYCHECK EVERY TWO WEEKS. SO DO MILIONS OF AMERICANS. Social Security is fine. Besides, even if it is privitized, Bush only wanted a partial privitization. Which would have allowed contributors to elect where the money was invested. That is kinda like a 401K plan. By doing this it would have created a numorous amount of wealth for the private sector and your retirement would be worth more than the whopping $600 a month most people get. But it doesn't matter because it is never going to happen anyway. Thjat ship has already sailed.

Posted by: Kelly | May 19, 2008 11:51:28 PM


America's free press is only free to Obama.

We are treated to everything about him (except the truth) from the sounds of his two-faced speechifying on his Pastor Wright and wrong, to his very fart..... the sound heard round the world!

If I sound perturbed, you are perceptive.

It is like a blackout blanket has been thrown over anything accountable done by Hillary!

Between the DNC which puts its delegates up for sale, thus selling our votes to the highest bidder, and the (HAH!) free press, which predicated this travesty in favor of B O early on and just keeps running in the same direction without any thought or meaning, like a dog chasing it's shadow as the sun goes down, only one candidate is being treated democratically.

There was a blog started last Thursday and lasting through yesterday about how perturbed women (and some me