Political Punch

Actually, according to the Kansas State Historical Society database, Charles T. Payne served in the Navy.

I used to be a conservative Republican. Now I am an independent. I will support Obama,even though I may disagree with his positions, simply because the theocratic right wing fringe is becoming distinctly fascist.

BMS's post of May 29, 2008 11:50:15 PM pretty much says it all. To those out there trying to assassinate the character of anyone that gets in the way of their views, rather than look at reality - you belong in a totalitarian state not a free country... You should, as someone else here has already posted, take a hard look in the mirror. Your freedom to speak in my view is also attached to your responsibility to speak with care and from your conscience, not from your talking points. There is a huge difference you know... And to those who say anything goes because Obama is running for President, I say whatever standard applies to him, applies to you and what you say. So before you get out there with half truths, and out and out made up stuff, check your facts. You all know who I am pointing to...

I am continually dismayed at the ignorance of and self-rightous venom spewed by the right-wing masses.....

Obama is a fabulist. According to the Chicago Sun Times, 'his first book used composite characters, ficticious names and reams of dialogue that only approximate the actual conversation.' He is now attempting to burnish his military bona fides with the experiences of his relatives. Worse yet Obama has consistently embellished their deeds as well.

He embellished his role as a community organizer, pretended he was a professor, took credit for legislation that others had worked on for years and now this.
Obama inflates all his so-called accomplishments.

So Obama's tale checked out? Does that include the main part of the tale where Obama claimed his 'uncle' (actually his great uncle) hid in the attic for half a year after returning from the war? Sure he did.

I think Kitchell's response was uncalled for. When someone is running for President, everything he (or she) says will be under scrutiny. If the Democrats aren't checking McCain's facts, I'd be surprised.

Jake, Obama's point in the Memorial Day address was that sixty years ago, Great Uncle Charlie's PTSD could not be treated because people knew so little about the condition then. His challenge to us and the US government was and is what are we doing, today, with all our knowledge, with the servicemen and women returning from Iraq and Afghanistan. Instead of you picking up that challenge, you veered right and focused on Uncle Charlie's war record. Even if the story didn't check out why are you not reporting on the real issue: Hundreds of thousands of servicemen homeless? Shame on you!

"Perhaps that sort of cheap prograganda works on uneducated types but the rest of us can see right through it.'

Perhaps my dear Jen you should read Obama's books, and the definition of propaganda.

The responses from some the posters at this forum regarding this article and Steve Gilbert's request for the information regarding Charles Payne, simply show that they are ill informed, stupid and smug about it.
No where on the Sweetness $ Light site was Mr. Payne ridiculed or belittled.
Mr. Kitchell's responses to a very polite E-mail were childish and unprofessional, I for one thank him for his service to his country, but that does not mean he deserves a pass for being a complete buffoon.

No, dropping the bomb on Hiroshima was NOT nice, and it WAS an act of terrorism to terrorize the Japanese into surrendering by a massive killing of Japanese civilians. Rev. Wright may be crazy, but he was absolutely right about that.

Posted by: John McBomb

Dear Democrats, please run on this. It's a winner. Snicker Snort Snort.

The reason O brought up his uncle (grand uncle, jeez, whatev) is because it was MEMORIAL DAY. Get a grip.

These right wing thugs who work for Bush and McCain are disgusting. Why won't Bush and McCain support our troops and vote for the GI Bill?

If Obama proved himself to be more trustworthy maybe he wouldn't be questioned so much. Once again he didn't bother to get his facts straight.

With his new flag pin, and a huge cross on his "faith fliers", big rallies,etc.
Obama seems very caught up in images and sympathy votes.

Bringing up his uncle looked like just another attempt to win over voters.

Sorry..but many Americans just don't trust Obama.

Obama grew up in Hawaii hearing family stories about his uncle and other family members in Kansas. Family stories often hold basic truth, but pick up confused details as the years pass. The point was that his own family had been affected by the horrors of war. The RNC was so eager to find and jump on a "lie" that they missed the truth and in the process denigrated a WWII vet who is well into his 80's. The vet they contacted to try to disprove the uncle's experience is also well into his 80's and he's heard it all before---but from neo nazis and holocaust deniers. And he's sick and tired of it. Maybe if you were there and saw the horrors with your own eyes, you get impatient with ignorance after 60 years. My old granny hit idiots with her back scratcher. The republican attack machine--and that was the reason for the inquiries--got off kind of easy. If they'd gone after my granny, they'd have knots on their noggins.

Pathetic that Obama's detractors are trying to leverage him merely misspeaking by claiming he lied even at the same time many of them lie by calling Ayers a "close friend",Wright a "mentor".

Perhaps that sort of cheap prograganda works on uneducated types but the rest of us can see right through it.

Great response by Kitchell. Gilberts's email with its agenda of trying to diminish/swiftboat a soldier in order to get at Obama, was socially inappropriate and intrusive.

So Kitchell called him on it and refused to play the game. Kitchell already talked to politifact and other news folks. He doesn't need to give the time of day to partisan mudslingers.

The vet group needs to get innto reality, they were not questioning the service of the Uncle if he did serve, they were question where he served and that is it.

What we are not allowed to ask questions about Obama.

Then we should not be allowed to vote for him!!

This all boils down to trust; people no longer trust Obama to tell the truth. He presented himself as a Washington outsider and now he is showing us that he is just a regular politician.

Why do Libs call it "ugliness" when someone is very politely fact checking?

Has it now become "ugly" to merely question a Democrat candidate's statements?

Lord knows, y'all question EVERTHING said by a conservative- And if the answer doesn't suit ya- then you ignore it or lie about it.

Check your sources people.'I heard' isn't anything like good enough in terms of history. I research family and military history and the golden rule is always to find and quote original documents). Without references, any statements are at least as unreliable as you consider Obama's words to have been - more so, as he has family members and at least one former soldier of the 89th supporting his version of events.
By the way, every family historian is awawre that even source documents themselves can be unreliable,in which case other sources are used to verify them where possible.

What has the world come to in tracking down someone's uncle from World War II to make sure his accounting of war horrors is the truth?

I thank all the people who spoke up and defended Barack's uncle's story. I'm very proud they pretty much told the people looking for a "story" to go to he_ _. Way to stay strong old timers. Most of us appreciate your service to the country and sympathize with the horrific treatment so many received and witnessed.

We really have to give this kind of stuff a rest and honor our past and current servicemen and women.

Ron

And that's what you base your vote on. How sad!

Politically, I have little in common with Mr. Obama. But the hate being spewed by his detractors is appalling and I am just about convinced that voting for him is a moral necessity.

Is Obama real or is he memorex?

I am glad that the WW2 Veterans could confirm the essentially true facts from his great Uncle's service.

I'd like to know why Republicans honor McCain's service in Vietnam, denigrate Kerry's record by Swiftboating him, disregard Cheney and Bush's honor in service, and trump up outrage over Payne's service.

One standard applies to all. Thank you for putting your life on the line for this country. If you weren't willing, we would not exist as a country.

So let me get this straight.

Obama wants us to associate him with old Uncle Charlie and his Grandfather who fought in WWII as though that makes Obama himself a patriotic American.

But we aren't supposed to associate him with those who have been pivotal in his life for the past 20 years like Rev. Wright, Father Pfleger, William Ayers, and Tony Rezko as though that makes Obama himself a racist, anti-American, corrupt politician.

Huh?

Then why do his enlistment papers say he joined the navy.

It seems obama's cousin is lying for obama

Another thing: today what is taking place by the Left is the equivalent of what occured in WWII, and with a similar ugly twist.

Except today, instead of yelling, "jooooooos," the Left is yelling "Republicaaaans."

Same goals, however, same intents, same politics, I fear, once again from a Left politic that seeks to eradicate who they target. In these times, the Left is repeating the same behaviors that they boast they opposed in WWII.

ABC, your statement...
"The response at Sweetness & Light was to compare the World War II veteran to Cindy Sheehan."
...is misleading, and terribly so.

I just read that site and the full exchange and they described the contrary correspondent's "politics" as being those of Sheehan's and from what I read that the vet wrote and how, I'd say that's correct a description of the guy.

So he's a hero for what he did in WWII and no one would ever even try to say that wasn't so. But the site contacted him politely and asked a very important question and the response was nasty.

Also, that response (series of responses) from that vet was uncalled for. Entirely crude. I wonder at what point someone's heroic actions in their past justifies mistreating people in the present?

"Go crawl back under the rock you came from" is pretty wretched a thing to say to such a civil inquiry, it's just politically motivated and entirely cruel.

My goodness a personal family story he SHARE ...is now getting a CSI look over.

Whats next !!! To see if the DOG he draw in kindegarten really had 4 legs.

DNC leaders, Do you ralize that Obama can not win the General Election with only the Africa American vote and the vote of a few college freshmen?

If my Pastor said America is responsible for 9/11 and "god d@#$ America", wouldn’t most Americans stand up and walk out.... How can a US Senator Take that...
Obama said, "I was never there", and then later "I was there" ...

Sen. Obama " I never took and will never take money from the oil companies." He only took 215k from the Oil Industry. And he has two Oil Industry Executives on his fundraising staff... change?
Way back when (last month) EVERYONE was watching the S Carolina debate to find out if Sen. Obama was real change from the politics as usual...
Obama On Tony Rezco, "I only worked for five hours for a client as a junior lawyer." and later, "he never asked me for anything." Is he lying or naïve?

Obama LIED about his own father!!
Throughout 2007, Obama went around the country weaving a false narrative about his father's connection to the Kennedy family.

some typo errors but i hope you understand the contents.

Judging by some of the phoniness whether it is hidden behind religion or the flag I have a hard time deciding whether false religion or false patriotism is the greater refuge for scoundrels. The comments also appear to make true the comment of Sinclair Lewis of fascism coming to America behind a flag and cross although you would probably have to add hooded sheets for some of the folks on the blog for a full picture.

Obama's geneology has Charles W Payne listed as his great Uncle, records show Charles W was in the Navy. Charles T Payne does not show up on Obama's family tree.

For those such as Frieda, here is what a LIE is. A LIE is when someone says something that they know is untrue. By Frieda's simpleton definition of LIE, McCain Lied when he said Al Quaeda trains in Iran. Extreme words from extreme people.

I liked Obama in the beginning, I even read his book..but he is looking weak and weaker and making too many mistakes!....Now he comes across too "self-absorbed" and thinks too much of himself..Did you read his graduation speech that he did in lieu of Kennedy?

Senator Obama made a mistake bringing up his great uncle. He should stick to his own accomplishments. Oh, but he can't. He has no accomplishments. Only bogus promises and political rhetric. What a fraud. His political agenda is total Socialist.

I have come to the conclusion that all these Obama haters are just downright jealous and envious to see a man of color succeed; they simply cannot stand it!!! I believe that is part of Hilliary's problem as well. What a shame! You know what? Senator Obama's mom is a white lady from Kansas; her blood runs through his veins as well. Get a grip; I do not believe any WHITE person in the US is entirely white, some have native American blood, some have latino, spanish, greek, etc. etc.
So quite acting as if you are pure as snow!!

Here come the Republican swift boats again... So Obama gets one minor fact wrong about events that happened 50 years ago--the wrong concentration camp--but the fundamental truth of his statement about the horrors of genocide and his uncle's service remain intact. Meanwhile, John McCain can't keep Sunnis straight from Shiites, or al Qaeda from other "extremists," or the Iranian connection to any of it, all with respect to a misguided war that he himself got us into, that is killing Americans right here and right now. And they're casting OBAMA as a dangerous liar? Have they no sense of decency, at long last?

Jake - thanks for another level-headed article based on intellegent, substantiated research rather than BS and hearsay. I, for one, believe we are in deep trouble in this country - the ugliness of people posting on this blog is beyond anything I've ever seen. My father is also a veteran of WWII still living - if he heard some of this stuff, it would break his heart. These people are heros folks - have some respect. If anyone has a right to be critical of our government - it's them. My Dad would never say it out-and-out, but he's ashamed of this administration - a lifelong republican and he's ashamed. That pretty much tells me all I need to know.

"On this Memorial Day, as our nation honors its unbroken line of fallen heroes – and I see many of them in the audience here today – our sense of patriotism is particularly strong."

I was more worried about Obama seeing all those dead soldiers sitting there.

He must be God!

Again we passionate Obama supporters ask - is this all you got? If so, you're delusional. Because this silly kind of nonsense is not going to prevent a man like Barack Obama from becoming president. No way. No how.

Once again...conservatives hate and attempt to destroy our American war heroes...while worshipping cowardly ChickenHawks like Bush Jr, Cheney, Limbaugh, and Hannity. These sick, delusional people are nothing but pure slime.

eyes wide open,

Please re-read JTs post as well as my comment.

Charles was not in the navy. That is a false claim by some right wing bloggers, triggered by a genealogy site incorrectly naming Obamas great uncle Charles W. Payne.

Obama's great uncle is Charles Thomas Payne and he was in the 89th Infantry Division, 355th regiment, the one that liberated Ohrdruf.

Obama's story has been verified by both Charles' son and brother.

What more proof do you want?

The figuring wise Americans should do with respect to Iraq is simple:

How and what has Iraq invasion BENEFIT to Americans.

How and what has Iraq invasion COST to Americans?

Simple accounting suggests that Iraq has been a BIG LOSS in every way! No benefit to Americans!

Only a foolish 'businessman' would not know to 'cut his losses'.
Only a foolish 'businessman' would not know when to give up on a LOST & COSTLY CAUSE as the Iraq war is.

"Numero uno: The 89th DID IN FACT liberate the camp in question, which is Ohrdruf, subcamp to Buchenwald."

Sorry; the quote I printed (source cited) did not reference "Ohrdruf" only Buchelwald; you are right.

But since Charley was in the NAVY and thus not even IN the 89th, I fail to see the significance of your post.

Hello BMS ,
This item was included in a speech to the American people. I would think that one would research details if it was to be in one. The information has to come from somewhere and it was easily resolved after the speech was delivered. There was no disrepect intended for the Americans who have fought to preserve our liberty.

Good post, and thanks for confirming it's accuracy. Some of the other poster's would recognize it for what it is, if they could read.

Smearing John Kerry, a politician is one thing.

Smearing a regular citizen who gave service in one of the most terrible wars ever is entirely another. It is shameful and a disgrace.

This is a joke!

The MAIN POINT of Obama's ANCIENT FAMILY HISTORY was that his 'great uncle' suffered mental problems after the war, and confined himself in a attic for 6 months!

We are talking about a 'great uncle', whom Obama most likely never met.

Obama is relaying TRUE FAMILY HISTORY told to him. He's liable to make mistake about details he NEVER experienced himself!

dgh - My father served in WWII, and never spoke a word about it. Many of the vets of WWII (and all other wars) saw things and experienced things for which there were no words. Unspeakable horrors were witnessed in that war, and I am quite sure that the liberation of any camp would fall into that category. Believe me, we did not sit around the dinner table reminiscing about my father's war experiences. That wasn't in the nature of his generation.

I just sent off a very long letter of gratitude to Mr. Raymond Kitchell. His service to his country, and my father's service, and Charles Payne's service, is what is ultimately (and ironically) responsible for the fact that the miserable Mr. Steve Gilbert enjoys freedom of speech, along with multitudes of other freedoms. How sad it is that he chooses to use that freedom to denigrate the honor and reputations of those who served and those who died to keep him, and the rest of us, free.

Clear-thinking, freedom-loving Americans of all political persuasions owe a debt of gratitude to Mr. Kitchell, and Mr. Payne, and all other WWII vets - a debt which can never be repaid.

Good story, and thanks for confirming it's accuracy. Some of the other poster's would recognize it for what it is, if they could read.

Thanks for posting this.

You might want to add two things:

1. The full name of Obama's great uncle is Charles Thomas Payne according to genealogy.about.com. There seems to have been a lot of confusion about this.

2. Charles' brother also confirmed Obama's story according to the CNN Wire.

Some conservative bloggers need to take a good look in the mirror after this and ask themselves if they really are as patriotic as they claim to be.

Thanks for setting the record straight.

Viva Obama's great uncle!!!

Thank you Raymond Kitchell, veteran 89th Inf Div.
As a woman of Jewish ancestry, I’m appalled that right wing bloggers have denigrated the heroes who helped to liberate Jews during the Holocaust by nitpicking the details in a family story from WWII. Have they checked all of their relatives’ stories to be sure they clearly delineate between liberation of Auschwitz, Bachenwald or any other camps?

Washington Post’s so called “Fact Checker” calls this minor mistake a lie, as do so many vicious Republican and pro-Hillary bloggers. They should put their efforts toward finding real LIES, like the ones our government tells, outing a CIA operative, WMD in Iraq, not silly little mistakes about war stories passed down by relatives.

If that’s all they got against our candidate, it’s going to be a walk next fall.

NO REPUBLICANS LEFT BEHIND in 2008

American veteran.

Bertha, McCain does not go to their church and has no idea what these people say. Compare that to a 20 year membership and relationship with this pastor. Try not to humiliate yourself further by comparing apples to elephants. Haven't we explained this enough for you guys?

Nice try though. NOT.

Jeremiah Wright (Obama's spiritual guide, friend and mentor) likened dropping the bomb on Hiroshima to terrorism on America's part. Nice, huh?

This and other reasons vets are not for Obama.

jpt: "The response at Sweetness & Light was to compare the World War II veteran to Cindy Sheehan."

Seems to me a fair comparison based on the comments you did not quote by the "veteran" immediately introducing Sweetness & Light's remark comparing his "politics" to Sheehan:

"Please spend ample time chasing down the lies fed to you by chickenhawks Bush & Co. Like 90% of this administration, they don’t have the foggiest idea what we went through or what we saw at Ohrdruf."

Funny how McCain supporters never bring up his two clerical supporters who have said unacceptable things.

I hope Jake jumps on liberal bloggers when they start trying to smear the war hero John McCain. Oh wait, they (Think Progress) already tried that a couple of months ago saying he plagerized a speech, when in fact someone plagerized John McCain's speech.

We won't allow a double standard this year.

Maybe his uncle marched in Selma and didn't join the army.

Obama's list of lies continues to grow. And I heard he wasn't in the army, he was in the navy!

Lol.

exactly geevill...

obama is a disgrace.. pandering, "pimping" his relatives....

all the dems i know are running away from him as fast as they can

Not surprised at all at the venomous far-right. They are blood-thirsty scavengers.

Ok, what's the real story. Did Obama's Uncle liberate a concentration camp, or was he on KP duty at this time. Which is it?

jake no one in his/her right mind would want this obama confabulator as president...he is a danger to the country.