Political Punch

Personally I think it is very important to educate the young people entering the election process. So many of the posts we read are so far off from reality that it really scares me. I read many posts, mostly from BMR, claiming that Jodi is wrong but the reality is that Jodi's posts are all quite correct. So it begs the question, if you are reading fact and claiming it to be false then I must believe that you have researched the material (it would be foolish to repeat incorrect rants that you have been called on) or that you are unable to comprehend the legal words of the RBC (stands for Rules and By-law Committee)

Can we sit back, close our eyes and imagine what better world this would be if all of you with enough time on your hands to bloviate on the internet actually went outside and *did* something?

On second thought, don't imagine it...

David: Jodi is correct. No David it is not strange. It is simply the rules. No one is the nominee untill August the delegates cast their votes. The only "sure" delegate votes today are those won in state primaries and caucuses. The Super Delegate can change his/her mind and vote which ever way they want in August even after they have endorsed one candidate. If Obama is to be the nominee then we will see Clinton Super Delegates vote for Obama in August. We could see Hillary ask that they all back Obama or we could see a fight over the minds of the Super Delegates. With a second vote at the convention, if needed, all delegates will be allowed to vote as they please. So if a state had awarded 10 dels to Obama and 8 to Clinton, then by the second vote the 8 that were for Clinton could decide to vote Obama or vice versa......usually they will all switch to the majority of their state by the second vote.....hence "pledged" delegates are pledged only untill the first vote is cast.

challenge that and challenge all the caucuses - they were ILLEGAL, they too disenfranchised tons of voters....

so if obama can get "magic" delegates for people that didn't vote for him, then hillary can get magic delegates out of the caucus states where her voters had to work or care for kids or were too old to go...

challenge the WHOLE DAMN THING and that'll forces them to use the popular vote metric which they should have all along...

The irony is that if Jody's false assumption were correct, it would prove Mrs. Clinton a lier.

She said her husband had the nomination locked up in June. Therefore, according to Jody she is lying because the superdelegates didn't count until the convention.

Strange isn't it?

My idea is the same: I will write in the name of Sen. Hillary Clinton for the U.S. president.

I am very proud of Hillary!

I thought "uncommitted" was a legitimate candidate in Michigan. In other words "uncommitted"is considered to be a person of value whose delegates cannot be taken away and arbitrarily assigned to another candidate. The RBC cannot come in and think about how people might have voted or may have voted if the situation was different. This is pure speculation. There was absolutely no reason to remove 4 of Clinton's delegates and give them to Obama. They pulled this one out of their back side and there will be a backlash for it. In other words the RBC is assuming that those who actually voted for Senator Clinton didn't really want to. The RBC assumes that those that voted uncommitted were actually voting for Obama and those that voted for Clinton actually voted for Obama.

As for Florida, the republican led legislature was planning on the DNC to be their hyper reactionary illogical self and hit the roof when the republicans moved the primary. According to plan, they did. Now the republicans can come to the rescue the democratic voter in Florida and paint themselves as supporters of voter enfranchisement of all things. The stupid dems stepped right into it.

JAIL THE CORRUPT DNC MEMBERS WHO ATTEMPTED TO CHANGE THE ELECTION RESULTS!

we demand FULL investigation of all the DNC members who vote and attempted to change the will of the people in FL and MI. we demand to know if they received BRIBES from obama or his campaign!

INVESTIGATE THE CROOCKS!

jodi:

I give up. You are beyond hope. I can only assume that you are a product of NCLB.

You've been wrong about every single DNC/RNC rule or point you've tried to make. I've posted documentation repeatedly that demonstrates your errors in plain English, and links to direct DNC sources proving you're wrong.

Debating with you is a lot like shooting dead fish in a barrel: the explosions are fun for a while, but the lack of challenge makes it become boring quickly. Count me as bored.

jodi:

Once again, you're wrong on just about every point you make. This is truly incredible, just how uninformed you really are.

(1) The roll call for delegate votes goes by state. THIS INCLUDES THE SUPERDELEGATES FROM EACH STATE! Or are you unaware that supers come from states, too?

They vote with their state (or, in the case of Democrats Abroad, their organization). They can cast their vote for whomever they wish, but there is no separate roll call for superdelegates. Again, READ THE RULES BEFORE YOU POST.

(2) "2018"? You're pulling that number out of your...imagination. 2018 has NEVER been the number for the majority of delegates.

(3) The "majority of delegates" is what is required to win the nomination (again, per the rules that I've taken the time to quote to you!).

The number of candidates on the ballot has NOTHING to do with winning a majority. As an example, five candidates won delegates in 1992, but Bill Clinton had over 3300 delegates, and won going away.

(4) Republicans DO have "superdelegates", Einstein. They're not called that, but they're unpledged members of the Republican National Committee who can vote however they want. There are fewer RNC "supers", though (about 460).

A majority of the RNC supers are elected, and likely to be affiliated with a specific candidate. However, if you're a GOP state chair or an RNC member, you're considered unpledged and have no affiliation other than that which you choose to declare.

Easy enough for you?

BMR: SAID ""A majority vote of the Convention's delegates shall be required to nominate the Presidential candidate."

OK sweetie, I will help you out again. Once at the convention a first vote will be called for and if as a candidate you have won the required number (currently 2018) in "pledged delegaes" then when the first vote is called and all "pledged" delegates must vote as they were pledged, you win.

'a majority of delegate" refers to when there are more candidates and it becomes possible for no candidate to have a majority of delegates. At that point those backing the candidate with the least delegates in the first vote begin to switch untill one candidate has a majority and wins. That is a very sloppy and far from democratic win.

If no candidate has the required number in "pledged" delegates then the vote of Super delegates counts. And with the second vote all pledged delegates can also vote the way they wish....just like a super delegate. This convention could be great.

If you watched the Republican primary, you would have noticed that McCain won the number of "pledged" delegates before he became the presumed nominee. Republicans do not have Super Delegates and dems should not either.

hillary is no quitter!
WINNERS NEVER QUIT!

Dear Friend,
..
Nearly 18 million people have stood with us -- the most votes cast for a candidate in the history of presidential primaries in either party. We've defied the skeptics and answered an important question: Which candidate best represents the will of the people?

..
Together, you and I have celebrated a string of incredible victories. We've made history by giving every American a chance to have a say in this race.

We've won the key swing states that will decide the race in November -- and yes, that includes Florida and Michigan. Most important, we've won the most votes. There is no more powerful way to prove that I am our best chance to win in November.

That's why I am asking you to stand with me today. And I promise you, as I always have, that if you stand up for me now, I will stand up for you every day in the White House.

I am so proud of the journey you and I have taken together, and of everything we have accomplished along the way. Tomorrow night, we'll count the final votes. Today, let's keep fighting.

Paul:

This is exactly what Jodi wrote: "There is no rule which says he who has the "majority of delegates" wins. The rule says he/she who has the required number in pledged delegates
wins."

I don't think I misread anything. She lied (or was just again horribly wrong) about the rule. The rule (as I quoted) says nothing about what type of delegates wins the nomination - precisely because the type doesn't matter.

does this sound familiar to you?
JAIL THE DNC CROOCKS who are stealing OUR votes!

Zimbabwe election ruling 'delayed to Monday'
..

The country's state-run newspaper, The Herald, has indicated that neither President Robert Mugabe nor challenger Morgan Tsvangirai received enough votes in the election to avoid a runoff. But because the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission has yet to announce the results, it is unclear whether a runoff is required.
..
The Herald reported Tuesday that charges are pending against five Zimbabwean election officials arrested on allegations of tampering with election results and underreporting nearly 5,000 votes cast for Mugabe. The five will be charged with either fraud or criminal abuse of duty as public officers, the paper said.

Police are investigating problems in two other areas where they said another 1,400 votes were involved, the paper said.
..

jodi writes (again, sadly, verbatim):

"UNLESS they do something different like follow the rules as written."

Again, the only way the RBC could follow the rules as written is to uphold its original sanction and award NO delegates from either Florida or Michigan.

"If the situation were reversed and the RBC just gave Hillary 59 delegates from a state where her name was not on the ballot or handed her the uncommitted votes from a caucus she lost despite the written rule, the Obama people would be screaming that the rules were changed and that's not fair. But Obama people only want to win at any cost .....even if democracy is the cost."

(1) Michigan was a PRIMARY, not a caucus. Sheesh.

(2) Clinton ended up with a net delegate gain from a state whose primary election was ILLEGAL (yeah, unconstitutional pretty much means illegal).

Your "argument" appears to be as follows: Clinton should be the only candidate to get delegates out of a state...

...whose primary violated DNC rules.
...that had 100% of its delegates stripped by the DNC (in agreement with the rules Ickes helped write!).
...whose primary was ruled unconstitutional by a federal judge.

Guess there's a good reason the RBC wasn't buying. By the way, note that the final RBC vote was 19-8 (three uncommitted supers - the two co-chairs and Mark Brewer of MI - abstaining).

Clinton has 13 members of the committee endorsing her. This means she couldn't even get her own people to buy the above nonsense.

BMR,

I think you misread what jodi wrote poorly. I think jodi's point was that it doesn't technically matter who has the majority of commitments from delegates and superdelegates today, or June 3, or any day other than the day of the DNC. Since neither Obama nor Clinton can get a majority from the pledged delegates, it's possible (albeit highly unlikely) that Clinton could still convince enough supers to side with her, including those who are currently supporting Obama.

jackt51 | Jun 2, 2008 3:01:05
SAID "Thus, even if they do appeal, there's little ground to think the "magic number" will change."

UNLESS they do something different like follow the rules as written. If the situation were reversed and the RBC just gave Hillary 59 delegates from a state where her name was not on the ballot or handed her the uncommitted votes from a caucus she lost despite the written rule, the Obama people would be screaming that the rules were changed and that's not fair. But Obama people only want to win at any cost .....even if democracy is the cost.

I vote Hillary if she is nominated and I happily vote McCain if she is not nominated.

Jodi:

As a chemist, you might be very interested in apparently trifling matters like accuracy. Remind me to stay far away from you lab.

The "RBC rules" you refer to? THEY'RE THE DNC'S RULES. I've linked you straight to them.

Tell you what - post something factual, WITH PROOF, that says the RBC can't strip 100% of a non-compliant state's delegates.

(Of course, you can't, since the rules say they can do what they see fit. DNC Delegate Selection Rule 20, Section C, Subsections 5 and 6.)

jodi,

I voted in the Michigan primary. I can't speak for every precinct, but the only thing on *my* ballot was a list of some Democratic candidates for President (Clinton, Dodd, Kucinich, and possibly Gravel) and "Uncommitted." There were no other issues; the Michigan issues primary is on another day, and the Republican candidates are on their own ballot. I colored in a single box and was done voting.

You hurt your credibility when you state things as facts which aren't true.

Average Joe:

I must say, you're funny. You're much more entertaining than, say, Lanny Davis.

Of course, since Obama is guilty of...um...NONE of those five things you listed, that pretty much renders you irrelevant.

Enjoy shouting at your clouds. By the way, tell John McCain we said "hi". :-)

---

this is the oldest trick in the book.. can't you do better than that?
steal and then pretend you did nothin, huh?

you and your crop just keep on insisting in doing crap.
point is, why do you obama people:
1. refuse to allow voting in Fl
2. refuse to allow voting in MI
3. throw crap on the votes/delegates in PR
4. say that the will of the people should not count
5. try to bully hillary out and cut short the democratic process before DELEGATES actually VOTE

obama hired lawyers to stop the re-vote in MI and FL.
obama starte to GE campaign before all votes were counted,
obama has been bullying superdelegates and the DNC to commit before all votes were in and COUNTED.
and obama insists in pushing to cut the democratic process short.

would i call you names for doing all of the above? no, i wouldn't..
would i call a worm names? no i wouldn't.

hillary will not stop because we will NOT let her stop until after ALL VOTES ARE IN AND COUNTED!

COUNT ALL THE VOTES!
STOP THE CRAP!

LET THE DELEGATES VOTE AT THE CONVENTION!