Clinton Considering Challenging New Magic Number of Delegates

There is no rule which says he who has the "majority of delegates" wins. The rule says he/she who has the required number in pledged delegates
wins.....that means if you won all the required number of delegates by winning state primaries and caucuses then you won. If you need any Super delegates to get over the line then you have not won untill August when the delegate votes are cast. The Super Delegates can and do change their minds before this August. Wouldn't it be funny if this has all been a game played on the republicans and as they just spent time and money researching how to fight Obama in August the DNC will nominate Hillary. That would be the only way the dems beat the republicans this year.

Jail time appropriate for election tampering

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Any effort to rig an election or to thwart voter turnout, no matter how incompetent or unsuccessful, is an assault on democracy.
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JAIL THE CROOCKS who are attempting to thwart the will of the people!!

Average Joe:

I must say, you're funny. You're much more entertaining than, say, Lanny Davis.

Of course, since Obama is guilty of...um...NONE of those five things you listed, that pretty much renders you irrelevant.

Enjoy shouting at your clouds. By the way, tell John McCain we said "hi". :-)

Jodi:

Sorry, but as I said before, I read democrats.org, not MSNBC. You should try going there and learning something about this process.

DNC Delegate Selection Rule 20, Section C, Subsection 5 and 6, give the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee total authority to strip a non-compliant state's delegation in any matter it sees fit.

Because you seem to be completely misguided, I'll happily provide you a quote and a link to the PDF.

Or, you can go to the DNC website, the "Our Party" drop-down, click "Delegate Selection", and scroll halfway down the next page to find the "Delegate Selection Rules" link. It takes you to the link I've provided above.

Now, there's no more excuse for your lack of information. You're welcome. :-)

BMR, Pittsburgh PA: You are wrong sweetie but keep trying to educate yourself. Watch the convention and stop watching stupid and misleading TV pundants like Matthews and Oberman.

Average Joe:

Your name-calling indicates the intellectual bankruptcy of your "position". So, please continue. :-)

In the meantime, the DNC rules only allow one way to determine a nominee: through delegate accumulation. THERE IS NO OTHER METRIC. You can't get the nomination except by having a majority of delegates.

Good luck with going to the convention, though. I imagine you'll probably protest at the inaugural, too. :-)

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name calling? since when creatures like you can get names? no, you are wrong, i wouldn't bring you to that level no matter what.

i see you have difficulties knowing up from down and left from right.

you and your crop just keep on insisting in doing crap.
point is, why do you obama people:
1. refuse to allow voting in Fl
2. refuse to allow voting in MI
3. throw crap on the votes/delegates in PR
4. say that the will of the people should not count
5. try to bully hillary out and cut short the democratic process before DELEGATES actually VOTE

would i call you names for doing all of the above? no, i wouldn't..
would i call a worm names? no i wouldn't.

hillary will not stop because we will NOT let her stop until after ALL VOTES ARE IN AND COUNTED!

COUNT ALL THE VOTES!
STOP THE CRAP!

LET THE DELEGATES VOTE AT THE CONVENTION!

BMR, Pittsburgh PA: You are very much screwed up and I bet that means you have been watching msnbc.

The written rules very clearly say that a state which followed all rules except the timing issue of running your primary early would be stripped of all delegates.......and that the state then stripped of delegates could go to the RBC where if the only violation they committed was a timing issue the RBC would reinstate to half piower all delegates. Everyone knew the rules but Obama wanted to write his own.

Next is the written rule which says that when a state is stripped of delegates for the timing violation that Super Delegates from that state could not be reduced to half power. that means all Super Delegates from MI anf FL will be at full power when the convention starts....that will lead to full reinstatment for all FL and MI delegates.

VOTE HILLARY and if she is not on the ballot then vote the next best McCAin.

Average Joe:

Your name-calling indicates the intellectual bankruptcy of your "position". So, please continue. :-)

In the meantime, the DNC rules only allow one way to determine a nominee: through delegate accumulation. THERE IS NO OTHER METRIC. You can't get the nomination except by having a majority of delegates.

Good luck with going to the convention, though. I imagine you'll probably protest at the inaugural, too. :-)

Jodi:

"Dear"? That seems disrespectful. You're probably one of the people who railed against "sweetie", though. Excellent hypocrisy.

Back to your point about Michigan: You're simply wrong. The actual entitlement of Michigan was ZERO delegates all around. Why? Because that was the sanction approved by the Rules and Bylaws Committee last year.

The January election, furthermore, was ruled unconstitutional by a federal judge.

Finally, the Obama campaign didn't need to float "various" compromise proposals. THEY HAD THE VOTES FOR A 50-50 SPLIT IN COMMITTEE. However, they decided to go with the 69-59 split (as proposed by the MDP) and a 50% reduction in voting power (as required by the DNC).

Rather than attempting to condescend and insult, use your time to brush up on DNC rules. You can read all about them at democrats.org, or try contacting the DNC directly.

This is all about her and nothing about Democracy in our country.

Those of you railing about the Credentials Committee reinstating Florida and Michigan to full power are dreaming.

The whole point of the RBC meeting Saturday was to try and hammer out a compromise to let those two states be involved at the convention.

According to the DNC's rules, the RBC has the authority to strip 100% of a non-compliant state's delegation.

Keep in mind that Harold Ickes (Clinton senior adviser, and RBC member) helped write those sanctions, and then lobbied hard to get them passed. Ickes is a known DNC rules expert.

Also, keep in mind that the committee chose to go with the Ausman challenge in FL and the MDP challenge in MI, with the only change being that both states lost half their voting power (also in concert with DNC rules that require a 50% cut at minimum for non-compliance).

The only solution that would completely comply with all the DNC's rules is zero delegates from either FL or MI. This, however, certainly isn't realistic. So, you get the compromises agreed to Sunday.

Oh....one other thing. According to a number of supers on the RBC, Obama had the votes to force a 50-50 split of the MI delegates. That's a long way away from the Clinton position (full voting power, 73 dels to Clinton, 55 to "uncommitted", 0 to Obama).

BMR, Pittsburgh PA: LIVE AND LEARN DEAR

Obama supporters were floating various senarios for the MI dels because they were leagally entitled to "none" per the RBC written rules.

The issue needed 2/3rd to pass and since the Obama supporters were not going to agree to anything fair,some of the Clinton supporters voted against. This allows for the appeal.....Live and learn and in August remember that Jodi told you so.

Average Joe:

I'll simplify this for YOU even further.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS THE "POPULAR VOTE" IN A HYBRID PRIMARY.

You can't credibly talk about "popular vote" when all states don't vote that way.

But, if you want to use this fabricated metric, you certainly can't exclude votes from states who participated in full accordance with DNC rules, while including votes from states who violated DNC rules.

Well, unless you're the Clinton campaign, that is.

So yes, if you exclude all caucus states...

and add Florida - which was a name-recognition contest, since no one campaigned there...

and add Michigan - whose primary was ruled unconstitutional (and therefore illegal) by a federal judge...

Then, yes, I guess you could say Hillary Clinton is winning the "popular vote" (excluding caucus states, but including two states that Clinton agreed wouldn't count). Yep...clear and convincing.

Bob F: FL and MI elections were certified as run. Other candidates and ballot questions appeared on those ballots including republican primary candidates. The DNC has failed to observe their own rules with regard to timing issues like running a primary early. Their written rules said they could reduce the dels by 50 % while another of their own written rules said they could not reduce the super dels vote at all for timing issues. The DNC will either on their own reinstate full power to all pledged and super dels from FL and MI or the issue will be at the credentials committee. Democrats have screwed themselves more this year if they fail to nominate Hillary than this country screwed themselves when voting Bush over Gore. Kerry was never bright enough to be Pres even though I voted for Kerry. Not this year. McCain is a much better choice than Obama.

Mark: There is no (as in "none", "zero") chance that Florida and Michigan will be restored any further than they were on Saturday.

The states themselves will not be filing any challenge, as their proposals were the ones ultimately adopted by the RBC.

This means that the Clinton campaign would have to file the challenge - and then get a majority of the Credentials Committee to agree to overturn the RBC's decisions.

Keep in mind that the RBC had 13 Clinton superdelegates, 8 Obama superdelegates, and 9 uncommitted superdelegates (including the two co-chairs). The final vote in favor of the Michigan compromise was 19-8 (without the two co-chairs, and without the MI member on the committee, Mark Brewer, who abstained).

This means that Clinton couldn't even get all of her endorsers on board.

Finally, a number of RBC members have said in the press since Saturday that the Obama supporters on the committee at least tried to push various compromises while they deliberated on Florida and Michigan. The Clinton supporters made NO outreach efforts to the Obama supporters OR the undeclared emmbers. This will stick with the supers.

Independent Voter: The delegates from FL and MI will have full voting rights restored but not because of Obama. Their rights will be restored because the written rules do not allow the committee to reduce to half power any super delegate vote due to timing issues like running your primary early. The rules committee so far has ignored their own rules but once at the convention all delegates from both states will be restored to full power. The difference is that when restored to full power Hillary would receive 37 more dels from MI and 52.5 from FL while if we are following the RULES Obama who did leave his name on the FL ballot (he was not taking the chance of losing dels in both states since he knew the rules would reinstate those dels)would get about 33 more dels from FL and should have 29.5 less from the uncommitted from MI which he was assigned. If done according to the written rules Hillary would now have or will have by convention 1685 pledged dels plus the last 2 primaries while Obama should have about 1726 pledged dels adding full power to FL and removing the 69 half dels he did not earn in MI. SUPER DELS ARE DECIDING THIS RACE AND IGNORING ALL WRITTEN RULES TO DATE.

Average Joe, Nothing is over until we decide it is. Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

Bob F...

I will check out the actual terms in regard to the MI and FL votes tonight. I have taken up "politics" as a hobby during the past few months. From what I have read, the elections were certified by the states, which means they are legitimate.

But I do not equate Obama with being "gracious" as you do. He is just another politician who will do and say anything to get elected. From wearing the lapel pin to "resigning" from his church to his many did-associations and renunciations. It is all getting pretty ridiculous and transparent.

I and many voters just do not buy it. I do not trust the far liberal left nor the far conservative right. Most voters are in fact in the middle and need those voters to win. With the many controversies coming up...and there are more that just have not been promoted in the main stream media...I doubt Obama will keep nor win those voters come November.

Well now I know where Fired Up gets the news from.

I was an early Obama supporter before switching to Edwards after researching Obama's past and just not liking what found. I thought Obama was a great speaker and very motivational..but saw early on that it did not equate with being presidential material.

Once Edwards dropped out, I checked Clinton's background and what she had done for the Democratic Party and admired her tenacity. The more I researched, the more I realized that I am pretty much smack in the middle of the political spectrum....a true independent.

I would say that starting this year, I have come to the conclusion that many of Obama's supporters...mostly young...just throw out the nastiest and most vile insults I have seen in an election, let alone in the Dem Primary.

I voted for Clinton in my state and had planned on voting Dem in the GE no matter what. After all of this, what I have seen in the news, with the DNC, I just cannot vote democrat no matter what at this point.

I have also followed McCain's history and have always admired his ability to work across the aisle and his military past...as my family has been military from all sides. I will likely vote for him, not as a "retaliation" vote, but as an informed voter that looks at the positive and negative of each candidate.

Isn't that what informed voters are supposed to do? Should we not put America before party? That is what I have always strived to do, especially when it is almost impossible to believe in every party platform.

Looks like former President Clinton is saying his good byes. This is to be his last day campaigning. That is encouraging news.