Political Punch

how narrow minded the American public are:Thankfully i am not American or an enemy of America - however, i do have trouble sleeping at night knowing that a nation full of blood hungry, greedy,television watching loonatics are trusted with nuclear weapons. To be honest, i would trust Iran more than i trust the US. We found no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and no proof they funded terrorism, it was a lie and a lie that cost innocent lives. America has blood on its hands again, and i am ashamed that my god forsaken country has too. Let us hope that before America strikes again, she is punished for her previous crimes. Let the middle east live their lives how they want to and then and only then will we have world peace.

Wow... I really admire the sense of "fight" here...
The soldiers really could have used all of you people when al-Qaeda was bombing hundreds in the streets, dumping bodies in the Tigris, and holding death squads.

Oh that's right... You were talking about the illegal war.

Interesting. Again, torture, what you call torture and what most everyone today is calling "torture" was not considered torture in that time, or is it truly defined as torture today. Our response in the early 1800's was to deliver an ultimatum, when they didn't agree we bombarded them till they did. Strange that wasn't considered cruel and unusual then. For example, during that time a squad of marines lowered bayonets and threatened to skewer a bunch of folks with those nasty things, it was not considered torture. That same method applied during the U.S. war against the barbary pirates 200 yrs ago by our U.S. marines, were it tried today would be decried as torture. It is the disparity of what is defined as torture today to what torture truly is. The definition of torture is quite specific, intense pain is the singular theme. Fear, humiliation, degradation, these have nothing to do with the actual definition of torture. Most folks hear something "scary" and "uncomfortable" and say "oooh, torture". No, it's just scary, or uncomfortable. Unless it deals with intense pain and agony it is not defined as torture. Making someone uncomfortable is not torture, making them afraid is not torture, making someone hungry or thirsty is not torturE, threatening their life is not torture. For some reason the democrat party and many americans seem to think that anything "uncomfortable" is torture. Time to go back to elementary school and learn your VOCABULARY correctly. Pick up a dictionary and learn what the word means. Get a historical reference so you can have an accurate idea on what you're talking about. You want torture, read about the bataan death march, what the japanese did to our POW's, read about the nazi death camps, or the politico camps of the former soviet union where literally MILLIONS DIED OF TORTURE! Those guys did that because they wanted to, it was fun and amusing for them. We do not do it for fun or amusement and if we find some who are they need to be removed and dealt with accordingly.

No tyrant in history has lacked sufficient numbers of people willing to torture and murder helpless victims of their regime, or to at least support those actions. Call them the bad people. Some others have refused to participate in the slaughter. Call them the good people. Now that Bush stands revealed as a war criminal and torturer, we can separate the good from the bad in our own society. Those who continue to support Bush and his policies are the bad people, with all that entails. The good people want a change.

It is easy to see that Bush supporters and other Reagan Republicans would rebuke even George Washington for not allowing his troops to abuse prisoners.

HAHA I have to laugh... someone actually believes the "liberals" stand for personal "liberty", hahaha... I'm sorry. Personal liberty means smaller government. Smaller government means less taxes, less government programs, less welfare, less government health care, less regulation of fuel, less regulation on economy, less regulation on housing less regulation on trade. ALL of which are heavily regulated by the liberals who want a government program for everything. Price fixing, to profit tax, death tax, to resouce management, to government healthcare, government retirement/aka social security, government welfare, government controlled unemployment, take your pick... all of these are "liberal" projects that rob americans of their liberty to choose by forcing them into government programs. Government is bigger badder and larger because of the "liberals" who in truth are not liberal, but socialists and communists under a different name. They believe in government being responsible for everything, which is socialism, and they believe in the redistribution of wealth, ie everyone but them deserve to be poor, which is communism. A true conservative (bear in mind many claim conservative but are just liberals who want government programs for their own ends), wants far less on tax, actual CUTS in government programs (defense against foreign powers is infact a responsibility of the federal government and a legitimate expense), they want the 17th amendment repealed and power shifted back to the states by restoring the senators back to state government appointment rather than general election, and finaly term limits on the whole legislature and the supreme court.

Neither of the candidates are desirable from a conservatives stand point. But it is maddening as a soldier to keep seeing people want to up and quit on us. Me and two of my best friends are in the military, my friends both have served two tours over seas one on his third tour (this time afghanistan instead of iraq), and we'll keep going back because we want to WIN. Quitters NEVER WIN... Sure, end the war, the enemy wants us to just end the war because that means we quit and they win by default. Obama and the democrat party wants to do just that. They want to give our enemies every comfort and protection under our constitution and more, when previously they would fall under military tribunal as they have throughout our 200 yr history. Only today does the supreme court and the democrat party decide that they have to have all the rights of an american citizen. It makes no sense by either our treaties, our constitution or legal precedent. The rights are not theirs to have they are not americans, and they forfeit their "human" rights when they became terrorists.

Americans, and by extension the West,
are the only ones who care about human
rights and the rights of POWs and terrorists. It's for this reason that
they're constantly under attack by the
hyp0crits of the world who have no respect for these rights, even those of
their own people. And yet that doesn't
prevent these to clamor for their killers-heroes' "rights" whenever they are captured during the exercise of their criminal function.
Like the Mexican government who is
noisily appealing the sentence of one of their nationals on death row in the US for the kidnapping and murder of two
American teenaged girls.
Americans let themselves be spitefully used and abused by people who have only evil contempt for all that Democracy
stands.
And yet they continue to provide generously for whomever in need even in the certain knowledge of murderous ungratefulness.
Mogadishu,Somalia 1993...

Article I, Section 8, of the Constitution they gave Congress the power to declare war.

Karl, the U. S. Constitution gives war decision making powers to only the Legislative and Executive branches.
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Wrong again! Only the Congress can declare war! You need to put your comic books down and pick up a copy of the US Constitution.

Once again, the U. S. Supreme Court has usurped the constitutional authority granted to the Congress.

Posted by: James Danley | Jun 21, 2008 12:41:15 PM
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It is the United States Supreme Court that is charged with interpreting the laws and deciding their constitutionality, not the Congress. The case that established the principle of judicial review is Marbury v. Madison.

Stitch, the Bush Administration has authorized three cases for waterboarding. YET, the anti-war protesters waterboard dozens of individuals at their anti-war demonstrations. So who is really committing torture?

Karl, the U. S. Constitution gives war decision making powers to only the Legislative and Executive branches. Following two previous U. S. Supreme Court rulings, Congress passed laws that were to insure military tribunals for those who are to be tried; and to keep the other detainees out of the American judicial system. Once again, the U. S. Supreme Court has usurped the constitutional authority granted to the Congress. Incidentally there is precedence -- on point -- in ignoring the U. S. Supreme Court. President Abraham Lincoln ignored a ruling by the U. S. Supreme Court that his suspension of the writ of habeas corpus was unconstitutional and continued to hold AMERICAN CITIZENS in prison camps without habeas corpus!!

We are the government, theoretically. So, if our government is torturing people, we are torturing people. That means that you are torturing people. That's exactly how our foreign neighbors see it. I was asked recently by a foreign friend, "why do you torture?" I said, "I don't torture." And then I realized my mistake. I am my government. Americans, right or left, who separate themselves from the actions of their government have turned over their power, their birthright as Americans, to the highest bidder (the politician with the deepest pockets). One of these days the right wing ignoramuses will wake up and realize they are pawns, slaves, or otherwise powerless. Then all their delusions will come crashing down on them. And the only people they'll be able to trust will be the "liberals" (in a political sense, favoring maximum personal liberty). You don't gain liberty and realize the American dream by giving up power or rights. Can't the "conservatives" see that? You want security? Vote for a strong defense AND accountability. You want liberty? Limit the power of the Federal government and take on some personal responsibility! The founding fathers would be appalled.

The morally ignorant will equate torture on the part of the US with strength, saying indefensible things:

"They're not part of the Geneva Convention so they don't deserve human rights."

"If you don't want to be tortured, don't be a terrorist."

"It's for the greater good."

The fact is, terrorism is motivated by ideologies and perceptions - not for 'political gain'. If we as a nation lower ourselves to their level, how can we claim to be any better, morally-speaking, than those we oppose?

But let's look at each of those moronic arguments, shall we?

Geneva Convention: Never applied to civilians or 'enemy combatants' and this is true. However ever since the the 1948 UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the 'Geneva Convention' rules have been largely supplanted by the notion that all persons have inherent human rights. Freedom from torture and unlawful imprisonment ARE mentioned.

Don't be a terrorist to avoid torture: The US believes in innocence until proven guilty. A person suspected of being a terrorist is NOT a terrorist before the law until proven so in court. None of these people have seen a courtroom. Many have been released and those in the report were released without trial or charges. Technically, they're not terrorists to begin with - and aren't until they are convicted of being so. That's the way the US justice system works. So this argument lets you torture convicted terrorists, but then, that would be inhumane, huh?

Greater Good: Whose? If we torture our detainees, what's to keep the others from torturing theirs (or our troops/citizens when they're captured)? How can we call foul when we're doing the same thing (degrees of difference mean nothing, by the way)? We can't be the moral police if we have no better morals upon which to stand.

The United States of America has been led by a frightened, incompetent boob who thinks that might makes right and will do 'anything' to 'secure the US against terrorist attack' - as long as 'anything' involves violence, armed force and intrusions into privacy, destruction of civil liberties and the denial of human rights. This has included violations of human rights of non-residents as well as the constitutional rights of everyone in the US. Very little of this combats terrorism at its roots.

The United States is big enough, strong enough and moral enough to stay true to ourselves and win without stooping to tactics that are both inhumane and hypocritical to the message we put out. If we torture our prisoners (among other human rights violations) as do many other repressive regimes against which we fight, we have no moral basis to claim the title, "Greatest Nation On Earth". And we don't deserve it until we can prove to the world that our system is any better than theirs.

So far, we're not doing too well.

Absolutely amazing. Let's see: terrorists attempted to blow up The twin Towers before 2001. What did we do to deserve that? Terrorists bombed another building, was it in KC? I don't remember off-hand. Did we do anything to deserve that? There was an attack on the USS Cole. Did we deserve that? The ship was being opereated by military personnel, that makes it a legitimate target? We were not at war...

When you give "equal rights" to terrorists, (Note--the right to humane treatment is a God-given right) You undermine the safety of the people and the nation.

Humane treatment is one thing, but "Equal rights" to enemy combatants is pathetic--especially when THEY ARE NOT U.S. CITIZENS!

You want inhumane? Smuggle something into China. Make it a Bible. Where are your rights, then?

It's you folks who THINK you know it all...who are the real danger.

BUSH and CHENEY are WAR CRIMINALS..Pure and simple. They both should be arrested,tried in a court of law and sent to prison.NOTHING LESS.These two have murdered thousands. They are mass murders in every sense of the word.

Don't like being tortured? Don't become a terrorist. Simple math. Ironic though that they are still alive to complain about it unlike our beheaded brethren many have conveniently forgotten about. If you endorse "rights for terrorists" you are equally guilty of being one. If our government wasn't so busy trying to eppease all the pansy-a$$ed liberals and third-world hate-mongers in this country perhaps we could have ended this war a long time ago!

For those of you who compare "our torture" to what outside groups have put their prisoners through, there's a HUGE difference:

1) WE ARE A NATION OF LAWS!!!
2) THEY FOLLOW NO LAWS!!!

Also, we weren't just torturing terrorists; we were torturing anyone we SUSPECTED of being terrorists. That usually meant anyone in a home that was SUSPECTED of harboring a terrorist...men, women and children. Children were sodomized at Abu Ghuraib under the watchful eyes of American personnel.

Remember when Donald Rumsfeld said that Guantanamo Bay held the "worst of the worst". So why have we released or going to release nearly 2/3rds of those prisoners???

Listen People!
It's not our Government that keeps this war going it's you!!, As long as you freaks keep protesting the more the ENEMy will continue, Look at our history, when we unite as a Country we win and when we are devided we fail. Most of you have no idea about the world unless it's broadcasted, The people we are figting today would behead you and your children with out thought, so if you think our Govt' is abusing you by trying to protect you then answer me these questions
1 what would happen if our Military and Gorvernment waited until every US citizen agreed to go to war, We would be destroyed. No one likes war but wake up people this happens unless you are willing to invaded.
2 Do you honestly believe the attacks on our Country would stop if we ignored them...Clinton Admin.. USS Cole, US Embassies.. And the First World Trade Center attack (Car Bomb) He failed to retaliate and then 9/11.
3 What freedoms are you willing to give up? In order to be a whiner.. As long as you can open your mouths and spout garbage you are happy. Now wait until your wishes come true and a passive liberal is elected and the terrorists start again and I hope you are a target what then.
4 Do you think our Government will retaliate or lay low because they don't want to offend you
5 what would happen if all law enforcement stopped nation wide, I bet you would be the first to complain then too, for you its either we enforce to strictly or too softly.
As far as I'm concerned if you can't support your Government and believe we are mistreating the enemy then I say Go live with them and see how long they keep you alive. They will laugh at you while you beg for OUR government to come rescue you. One final note We need to close our borders, we need a Government that puts the WELFARE of our Nation First above all others. If you don't believe that then donate all your $$$ to foreign nations because I have my own family to care of first and no starving family over seas has priority. USA love it or leave it.And if you think protesting is showing support for your Soldiers it's not I know I am one. and you disgust all of us.As far as I am concerned you are the domestic terrorist and should be drafted, I bet you would cry huh?

Is the President and his administration guilty of war crimes? If you think that is the case, just remember that you are alive and able to think so only because of the things that they have done in the past five years. We have a group of people that have a declaration of war against us, the United States of America!! Not just our military, not just our government, but you sitting there at your computer reading this now...they want to kill you!!!! Think about that for one second!!!! They want you dead, they want all of us dead!!!! The government has done what it can under the law to keep us safe...Have the rules been bent...yea probably...but remember this, they are making this up as they go...never in the history of this country have we faced an enemy like this!!! Not only are those we're fighting willing to blow themselves up in order to kill you and me, but they are willing to die for their "spiritual" leaders...so how are we to protect our country and the lives of her citizens when the Intel we need lies in such an enemy???? We get the info from them the best way we can while we still keep these people/animals alive...we feed them...we provide for their wellbeing, medically and such...they are then released alive!!! How are these war crimes???? There are some still being detained...yea there are still those out there trying to kill you, so isn't logical to still have prisoners of war that could very well have secrets to stop your death...shouldn't they still be kept detained until we can get this info from them??? If you say no then i guess you want to die

To conclude has everything in this "War" ...that's right war has been declared on us and no matter what you hear it is still ongoing...gone to plan? No. Has mistakes been made? Yea. Does this mean that our government war criminals?? No. We are the country who admits its mistakes and tries to do what is right while in the end protecting your right to live...Instead of pointing fingers just say thank you