Political Punch

I don't know what is worse:

A) Obama's contingent of sore loser supporters

or

B) Obama's contingent of sore loser reporters

LOL! McCain answered all his questions like a right-wing robot (think 'dittohead') and people here are upset that he might have cheated. Of course, he cheated! No-one is denying that he had the OPPORTUNITY to cheat. That was the whole point of the 'cone of silence' - to deny the OPPORTUNITY to cheat bc. everyone knows that all's fair in love and war and politics.
What really gets me though is the attempt to portray McCain as the 'winner' for his parroted born-again talking points. He did not give a single thoughtful answer but answered as though he had been studying for a multiple choice test. If the criterion is 'who gave the answers closest to what the right-wing nut jobs wanted to hear, then McCain won hands down. If the criterion is 'WHo answered the questions thoguhtfully and sincerely, then Obama wins by a knockout. Sure, McCain may have gained a few more evangelical single-issue voters, but as far as Independents go, I think he lost mmore than he gained!

Of course, it helps as we've now learned that John was not in the "Cone of Silence", but riding in a motorcade to the building where the "Forum" was being held, while Sen. Barack Obama was being questioned. And, during that period of time, there was nothing that prevented John McCain from hearing the questions being asked of Sen. Obama and Sen. Obama's answers thereto. Do I think John McCain "cheated", you bet I do.

Specifically, we learn from the NYT: Before an audience of more than 2,000 people at the church, the candidates answered questions about policy and social issues.

Mr. Warren, the pastor of Saddleback, had assured the audience while he was interviewing Mr. Obama that “we have safely placed Senator McCain in a cone of silence” and that he could not hear the questions.

After Mr. Obama’s interview, he was joined briefly by Mr. McCain, and the candidates shook hands and embraced.

Mr. Warren started by asking Mr. McCain, “Now, my first question: Was the cone of silence comfortable that you were in just now?”

Mr. McCain deadpanned, “I was trying to hear through the wall.”

This last statement by McCain seen on national television leads me to believe McCain cheated. If he had not cheated, why didn't he come clean with the Rev. Warren, when he was asked: "Was the cone of silence comfortable that you were in just now?” To me, if McCain wanted to tell the truth, he would have told Rev. Warren that he was not in the "cone of silence", but "in motorcade" (as Rick Davis put it) on his way to the building. By answering "I was trying to hear through the wall”, McCain led everyone to believe he was in the "cone of silence", which we all know is false.

Obama is acting like a kid that lost the ball on a playground.

The simple fact is that all McCain needed was an aide in the audience sending a text message of the questions to his motorcade as they were asked: 'I did not HEAR the questions ...' is a quibble.

Watching you Obama supporters frantically trying to explain away why your candidate underperformed is like watching a bunch of eight year olds crying about losing a softball game, breathlessly accusing their opponent of cheating

McCain is using Swindle to verify the 'cross in the dirt' story. In other words, he's using another Jack Abramoff connected lobbyist on his campaign. After disinviting Ralph Reed, yet another Jack Abramoff connected lobbyist from his fundraiser tonight.

More lobbyists in the White House!

McCain doesn't need to be baptised into his religion...he's got Jack Abramoff as his god almighty already.

"Do you have any idea how few christian viet cong there were in Vietnam in the early '70s? The chances of that story actually happening to Mccain are almost nonexistent."

No, sorry, North Vietnam was (is) primarily Catholic, from the heavy French influence. Much more than the South.

What's more interesting is the evolution of the story. Obviously bogus.

Why do people say that Obama didn't do well? He was thoughtful and articulate in an arena that wasn't receptive to Democrats in general. McCain gave his usual formulaic patter. It doesn't matter if he heard in advance or not, he would still spew the robotic patter. Quit acting as if he did so well that he must have heard stuff in advance. He's good at memorizing - not critical thinking!

I believe that most are missing the point. McCain led everyone to believe that he was in the cone of silence when he was not. His spokesperson incredulously asked if Obama was questioning a former prisoner of war. Excuse me, but aren't military personnel trained to lie in such a circumstance? However, that's beside the point. The point is McCain was not in the cone of silence and therefore had an opportunity to hear Obama's responses. As a result that advantage may have allowed him to play to the crowd. That is dishonest and is the unadulterated definition of disingenuous.

Re: cross comment

Some say that we should honor what the man had to say, as well as Swindle who has deep ties within the Republican party, simply because they were POW. I am afraid to inform them, if this is
true, it should work both ways.

Older veterans remember well how John McCain and John Kerry shut down all further investigation into remaining MIA/POW in order to open up trade with Vietnam. They remember full well how these families were treated and talked to by John McCain. They also remember
how John McCain's father-in-law immediately opened up a beer industry in Vietnam.

If anyone wants to add honor as a reason to believe the cross story, I suggest they start with their research here:

aiipowmia.com/testimony

They might also remember we are talking about the man who was not above copyright infringement against two song writers and Wikipedia.

McCain’s Top Ten Excuses For Not Showing Up On Time To Saddleback Church

10. I was taking a nap. I wanted to be in top form. As you can see from my performance, it worked!

9. I was watching the Olympics. That Misha Phelps is an excellent swimmer!

8. Interrupt my suppertime? I don’t think so.

7. I was working on my weekly Presidential radio address.

6. Kept mulling over whether to use sandal or stick in my “dirt in the cross” Christmas story.

5. My motorcade was held up by the local paparazzi.

4. I don’t usually work weekends.

3. I got caught up in prayer for Georgia and Florida.

2. Me? Follow the rules? I’m a maverick!

1. My friends, I’m a P.O.W. How dare you question my integrity!

Sour grapes from the Obama fans and MSNBC! If McCain heard the questions an hour before and remembered and formulated answers to them - why, that proves that he has the brain of a 21 year old! I am so proud of that white hair dude! Nimble brain!

Hillary got maligned for saying that she always got asked the questions first! Hey, your guy is saying the same thing now! What a hypocrite! It only proves how much better McCain did than the One!

Yes, Mc Can!

hahahahah

you were all "set up" by Jake.....
enjoy the fracas..... sponsored in the name of keeping up the flow.....

But Klein did it best... and honestly, too!

I have to wonder if the people making allegations that McCain is lying about this are even Americans.

Interesting; Dems, knowing from experience that the surefire way to win close elections is to cheat (e.g. deceased voters in Chicago, bogus voter registration drives, etc.), are certain that the only way Republicans could have won the 2000 election was to do the same. Similarly, as they would have cheated to gain an advantage in Saturday's forum, it is obvious to them that the winner must have cheated in order to come out on top.

McCain has been doing town halls, taking questions from all comers for years. He is good in this format, has a lot of experience. Now it has become clear why Obama is afraid of the format.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. When I first hear Obama's voice, i thought, "this guy is good." Now I just hear an idiot whiner who is mad he got beat in a debate. Wait for the next few. Obama is an empty suit, pretty, not as pretty as Edwards, but prettier than Hillary, and still an empty suit.

a cheating, lying, pandering POW. Excellent choice for president, ehn!

"What's the latest "truth" about McCain stealing his "cross in the sand" story from that dead Russian story about the Gulag??"

It would take an idiot to think such a incident would only happen once throughout recorded human history.

Prisoners are routinely denied the ability to write...and if they did want to write, they'd wish to conceal what they wrote after the fact. THEREFORE, writing in the dirt is very, very common in prison camps.

The cross is a universal symbol of Christianity, and for some in such dire circumstances, Christianity is the last hope people look to. THEREFORE, the cross would be periodically used to try and uplift someone's spirit.

THEREFORE, it's extremely probable that the "cross in the dirt" story isn't remotely unique to the Russian.

But hey, lefties don't need proof, or even probability. Just a flimsy accusation no one can prove, and a willingness to believe.

Honestly, I think if McCain had nothing to hide his campaign would come out and directly say Senator McCain had no knowledge of the questions and no knowledge of Obama's answers.

And to those who say its whining, I do think this raises questions about the ethics and integrity of the McCain camp. Did McCain act in a not entirely honest way in connection with a forum at a christian organisation, and what does that say about his faith?

Of course McCain cheated. He is after all a republican. Just like bush was wired for the debates so he could have someone else answer the questions for him. But that won't sway the less intelligent voters and the republicans know this.

The McCain campaign overly aggressive reaction to even the suggestion that there might have been impropriety in the "Cone of Silence" situation has only fueled speculation further. My guess is they cheated. They are Republicans, after all. Why should they disappoint us now?

"Also, he was shamelessly pandering with that POW story ad nauseum"

If Obama ever actually did something of note in his life he should stop keeping it a secret. What has he actually accomplished? Well he did publish two books, one on the topic of himself and the other on the topic of himself.

Does the lack of Rick Warren's previously-announced 'cone of silence' invalidate the Saddleback process? I think it does. Whether or not McCain cheated or unknowingly had answers fed to him by aides with Blackberries, some people will always think so. (Personally, I doubt it.)

I don't think this is about whether McCain lied or whether Obama's supporters have sour grapes because Obama didn't do as well (I thought they both did fine). I think it's about how Rev. Warren should not have announced there was a so-called 'cone of silence' when there wasn't. If McCain wasn't in the house, Warren should either have announced that or kept his mouth shut about the 'cone of silence.' Remember the Warren Commission and a lot of other things like that? On a much smaller scale, some people will always think the Saddleback interview was a shady deal.

Yeah, their denials are hilarious. The point is he could have been coached, he was not in a "cone of silence" as everyone was led to believe.
And I disagree completely with shirrin who claims McCain is a "known entity". He is completely unknown. Most Americans think he's a maverick because that is the image he has tried to hoist on us. But he is nothing of the sort. The prospect of a McCain presidency is frightening, and it's high time the media (and the democrats since the media probably won't do it) throw back the curtain and start applying the same scrutiny to McCain as they have been to Obama.

John McCain was not in a cone of silence. John McCain and Rick Warren led everyone watching to believe that McCain was shrouded away in silence.

A man of honor, a man of honesty, a man with scruples would have announced to everyone right at the start that he really wasn't in the "cone". Instead he chose to allow everyone to believe a lie. And how will that work as President?

A man of honor, a man of honesty, a man with scruples would not have told a false story about the cross in the dirt, which was actually about a Russian prisoner in the Soviet gulags, Alexander Solzhenitsyn. Does McCain have no dignity? No shame? To tell such a story in a church of God no less?

The point the media and everyone else on Obama's side is not acknowledging is that Saturday night's debate for the most part was less about McCain and more about Obama. McCain is a known entity. Obama is still an enigma and many folks who are still confused and looking to understand all the fervor and fuss around his persona turn to the debates for answers, and that's where Obama fell so short of expectations. It was frankly an embarrassing performance and Mr. Obama looked more like running for class president than commander-in-chief of the most powerful nation on earth. It is in that context that McCain's performance especially in that side-by-side comparison made the realities of this election cycle so stark and undeniable.

One can appreciate the fact that many people look at Obama's candidacy as an history-making event, but in the end majority of Americans will have to put the future of their country before symbolic gestures to suit the political ambitions of any one person.

Right - McCain got access to all the questions just before hand, and drafted perfect response to all of them in the few minutes Obama was being interviewed.

Then he delivered those great answers perfectly from memory a few minutes later.

Nice try.

Face it - Obama got his clock cleaned.

In numerous articles and, most famously, in his own writings, Obama has cited Rev. Wright as his "mentor" and all-around guru. Indeed, "Audacity of Hope" is based on a sermon Obama heard Wright give. Those three words -"Audacity of Hope" - the mantra and basis of this charlatan's entire sham of a campaign - are actually the good rev's own words.
Was anyone else chuckling at Obama's pathetic answer to Warren's question about whose counsel he values?

What's the latest "truth" about McCain stealing his "cross in the sand" story from that dead Russian story about the Gulag??

Obama is a thinker, not a reactionary like McCain. I would rather have a thinker, one that is deliberate in thought and slow to speak than a reactionary that will pull the trigger at the drop of a hat. You guys don't know what McCain is capable of. I would be very leary of someone who has spent a life time dwelling on military life. Look at the last military president we had Dwight D. Eisenhower. Led us into Viet Nam...need I say more.

More and more clear McCain cheated, and the problem is not what he answered or the unfair advantage, the worse is his moral fiber of cheater.

There is no way in hell McCain was in a cone of silence at that forum because he wa sanswering the questions before they were even asked. Also, he was shamelessly pandering with that POW story ad nauseum

Why is it everytime I try to post how it is weird that in a Faith Forum, Obama could't bring up Rev. Wright, the one "who led him to Christ"? I'm just thinking. I also think Obama had the highest respect for him before March, and he would have been on his list of 3 wise people. Why is this so wrong to post.....we are talking about a FAITH FORUM, right?

Obama's puppy ate his homework?

Bottom line: Obama lost, folks. Get over it.

This response from the McCain campaign is really alot more interesting (and telling):

"The insinuation from the Obama campaign that John McCain, a former prisoner of war, cheated is outrageous."

Forget that the source of these insinuations was not the Obama campaign for a second, and look at the rest of it for a second.

Anyone else here think that he's gone just a wee bit overboard pushing his pow status?

Obama might be good in front of a teleprompter, but he can't think on his feet otherwise.

He's an empty suit, this forum proved.

He has no legacy, he has no experience.

I believe the correct term is 'spermatazoan-americans' Flash. Gotta be politically correct here.

Bam, you wrote: "Except that McCain and Pastor Rick Warren had not yet discussed the Supreme Court justices."

After answering a question on abortion and the definition of marriage THAT is when Sen. McCain asked, "Are we going to get back to the importance of Supreme Court Justices?" Sen. McCain also said, "When we speak of the issue of the rights of the unborn we need to talk about judges, but anyway go ahead."

BEFORE the forum both Sen. McCain and Sen. Obama were given the topics from which Pastor Warren would be asking them. Apparently one of the topics mentioned was the importance of the Supreme Court Justices. So Sen. McCain wanted be sure that there would be a discussion of judges. Otherwise he would have given his thoughts on the Supreme Court during the questions regarding abortion and definition of marriage.

Scared and angry? No.

Know a liar when I see one? Yes.

Obama '08

Obama was warmly received by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who called him "a leader that God has blessed us with at this time."
BAAARRRFFFF

cincyr, you nailed it! Laughed so hard I spit my coffee.

When all is said and done I would still vote for Obama over McGoo.

The Obama supporters seem to be frantic and floundering.

This is why we need to keep religion and politics seperate. The question 'does evil exist' is a euphemism for 'are our enemies less than human'.

Religion brings out the worst of the human race.

bam..where have you been? BOTH candidates got to review some of what would be asked them before the forum. It doesn't change that Obama UNDERPERFORMED! He needed help from Warren on his ANSWERS. Play it back and count how many times Warren had to finish Obama's answers. My husband was very frustrated by that.

Zaggs, that is a fundamental misreading of the Constitution. The advice and consent is there to prevent the President from appointing foaming at the mouth right wing bigots to the bench, like Bush did.

Brooklyn, The reason McCain voted for SC justices he doesn't want is due to deference for the president. As was reported by the Washington Post "He rightly pointed out that he respected the presidential prerogative to appoint nominees who share a president's view of the law and the Constitution when he voted for both of Mr. Clinton's Supreme Court nominees, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen G. Breyer. He fairly chided Sen. Barack Obama and Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton for not offering equivalent deference to President Bush's nominees.". He takes the constitutional responsibility of advise and consent to mean that literally. That there should be a damn good reason (and political disagreements dont count) for voting against a nominee.

Belle Starr....thanks for the laugh....despite his drug use, he really should get some speech therapy for that stammer.

exhale....but he was in "a cone of slience" for what amount of time, we don't know. But his answer is still acceptabale.

"Cone of Silence" is meant to be a joke. I haven't seen the new one, but in the old Get Smart show its purpose was to show how stupid classified info and government secrecy was, because inevitibly the two people inside the cone couldn't hear each other, but the people outside could hear them. It was ultimate irony.

Debra, I'm just saying that it begs the question. When asked if the cone of silence was comfortable, McCain should have said he was enroute.

Waiting to Exhale

Obama's inexperience is showing in the fact that his people did not think through the design of the Saddleback Sham before he agreed to it.

He gets questioned first. McCain gets questions by blackberry. Plans responses in advance, knowing how Obama responded. Genius.

Maybe Hillary was right.

Rick Warren said that 2 or 3 of the opening questions were told to the candidates ahead of time, along with a general description of the topics to be raised. John McCain was in a motorcade at the beginning and on arrival, went immediately to the "cone of silence" lobby of the building.

Obama's problem is that he does not even know how to respond to obvious and relatively "softball" questions. Even a dolt like John Kerry knew enough to say, when asked, that life begins at conception.

But Barry wouldn't answer it.

Well, if as he says the question is above his pay grade, then how did he justify three votes as a State senator to block prohibitions on post late term "abortions?" Why did he vote three times to block a bill that would have prohibited the termination of the life of a child already born, and outside the womb, one who had somehow survived the late term abortion procedure?

Why, under those circumstances, did he not pull his usual "avoidance" stunt, and not vote?

The New York Sun

Obama said regarding the NRLC “have not been telling the truth and I hate to say that people are lying, but here's a situation where folks are lying”. No one ever understands Mr. Obama because he changes his stance on everything. Obama spokeswoman, Hari Sevugan, grudgingly admitted Obama had indeed voted against the bill in committee to the New York Sun on Monday. Hillary Clinton pointed this out during the debates and it fell on deaf ears. Mr. Obama needs to apologize to a great many people. He is misleading the public again.

Nobody says "cone of silence." It isn't a figure of speech, and it didn't exist in any way in this situation. What was the phrase supposed to convey? Why not "sequestered" or "isolated"? Cone of silence? What's up with that?

Maybe Warren set McCain up. He meant "dunce cap."

exhale....I do believe he was in a room for some amount of time before the questioning.....that is how "he was trying to listen through the wall".

Debra, although I would ordinarily agree with you. My concern is that McCain led everyone to believe that he was in the cone of silence. Rick Warren asked him if he was comfortable while there and McCain jokingly responded that he was "trying to listen through the walls." I would feel more comfortable now if he had simply told the truth- that he was enroute at the time. Fibbing by omission is still the same as fibbing.

Waiting to Exhale

I'm glad that Politico has reported that both campaigns received some hints as to what questions were going to be asked. Wow! Obama wants to distract people from his bodysurfing pictures.

Jake, thanks for covering this. Charlie Black's non-denial stinks to high heaven. The vitriol (good word!) and POW-high-dudgeon also are tip offs- they know they broke the rules and it looks bad. This goes to character-esp. at a faith forum!

Proof of McCain having the questions beforehand shows clearly in one key response...

Cross In The Dirt.

His ego and overconfidence led him to rehearse the answer he would give about an episode that happened to Alexander Solzenhitzyn. In other words, McCain pulled up an anecdote from the wrong part of his brain.

The more I discover about the possibility, the clearer it becomes. The Cross In The Dirt story is proof. McCain had the answers beforehand. Even Bill Kristol changed his web column to say "there is no evidence" as if to suggest it's up to us to find the evidence, because they ain't gonna tattle.

McCain will be done when the truth gets out. Cheating in an evangelical forum.

How Rovian.

exhale...what "help" would McCain need with where he stands, or who he is, or what he believes in? I think a guy at 71, going out everyday to talk to the American people about these issues would have no trouble with any of the questions asked Sat. Hearing Obama's first 3 answers, if he did, would direct him where exactly?

I would like a president that doesn't make excuses. Obama did bad in the forum and is trying to downplay it by making excuses.

mccains performance was stellar. obama's was not. 1) their was no right or wrong answer this was not a spelling bee. 2) according to obama and his supporters mccain is senile so how would he remember the questions. 3) they both had a general idea what the questions would involve so they both had plenty of time to prep.

even if both candidates had the questions before hand would it make any difference. if you have been listening to both candidates, they are saying much the same things they have been saying all along. their styles of delivery are very differenct, but they are in general answering just as i thought. many americans do not realize what the job of the president really is. first and foremost he is the commander in chief of the armed forces. this should factor in greatly when considering who to vote for. our lawmakers are the congress, not the president. he can veto, but they can over ride him. one very important thing the president can do is appoint judges, this should be taken into account when voting also. i believe both men sincerely love this country, but we must decide which of these men would be able to protect and defend us and appoint judges that follow the constitution.

Good try Debra but that "dog won't hunt". I'm not talking about Obama's performance; I'm merely questioning if McCain received any help. I cannot fathom why Andrea Mitchell would make a comment that implied that he had. This is something the McCain camp needs to clear up. It's not about fairness inasmuch as it is about integrity. By the way, I thought Obama's responses were too long as well.

Waiting to Exhale

NJ....I'm confused too...I thought Rick asked for the three wisest people who you might put in your cabinet? Is that right....his wife and granny?
Does anyone know how the question was posed?

"Andrea Mitchell is as objective (and as honorable) as reporters come."

She never discloses that her husband (Alan Greenspan) is involved in the stories she reports on.

Greenspan is in the pocket of the GOP, I wonder about Mitchell.

Debra, I noticed that Warren helped McCain finish his answers and expanded them too. It was irritating/

I WAS STRUCK FOR ONE THING BY THE PEOPLE EACH CANDIDATE SAID THEY WOULD USE AS THEIR TOP ADVISORS. OBAMA SAID HIS WIF AND MOTHER? AM I CORRECT? MCCAIN SAID GENERAL PETREAOUS (?) COULD ANYONE TELL ME.

waiting to exhale....McCain seemed quick because Obama is long winded. My husband became frustrated BECAUSE WARREN HAD TO HELP OABMA FINISH HIS ANSWERS....PLAY IT BACK AND LISTEN!
McCAIN....A CANDIDATE WHO KNOWS WHO HE IS AND WHAT HE STANDS FOR!

Andrea Mitchell is as objective (and as honorable) as reporters come. So, the question remains: Did McCain have access to the questions and/or Obama's responses? I watched both candidates and McCain seemed to anticipate some of the questions. He asked Rick Warren if he was about to "get to" a certain question. Rick Warren also seemed to lead him on many of the responses. He certainly did add more of a helping explanation to some of them, which I found to be truly disconcerting.

Waiting to Exhale

And to think I just thought he had one to many shots of espresso prior to his Saddleback adventure...
Let's face it...McCain's performance even shocked our repub windbag Buchanon.
I questioned whether or not he previewed the questions...He was just to on his game....
We all already knew McCain had cheating in him - he all but came out and said it in his Saddleback performance.
Once a cheat always a cheat.....
Now how will all those Evangelicals feel about Mr.McCain cheating in their house God??????
Jake if you let this one go.....I will be very dissapointed...Keep on Camp Cheating McCain.

Why would anyone believe what Obama's camp says about anything. After Obama lying about his vote in the Illinois Senate to kill a "born alive" bill, why would anyone believe what he says?

Just read a story about a women in a Western Galilee village who had an abortion in the fifth month of her pregancy due to internal bleeding. The baby was pronounced dead and place in a cooler. When the husband came to take the baby home for burial, it was breathing. It is now in the intensive care ward in Nahariya Hospital.

I'm just saying...

Geeze all you Obama supporters.... admit that McCain kicked his butt. And get used to that, because McCain will kick his butt election day too.

"There's no reason we would do that," says Lobbyist Black.

Well, I'm convinced. Nothing to see here.

Dom....working for years in Government and across party isles is WHAT QUALIFIES SENATOR JOHN SYDNEY McCAIN, not his POW experience. That just demonstrates his love for this country and our freedoms!
McCAIN '08/HILLARY '12

Why isn't this front page news!!
If Obama went second and the same news came out, I am certain that it would be a front page event.

I watched the forum twice only because it was disturbing to me, now it is even more disturbing!

So glad this non story is not getting any traction on the cable news shows....it's all about Obama PICKING A VP AND MAKING A SAFE CHOICE! Who will that be? Biden will outshine him, so that's not the way to go. How about Michelle....she's tops in his WISE column?

Jeremy...oops.. your right moot not mute, I still like "PO"

"ABC News' Ron Claiborne, traveling with the McCain campaign, reports that McCain senior adviser Charlie Black would not say whether people around McCain while he was en route to Rick Warren's forum had access to blackberries and cell phones from which they could have tipped off Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., about the questions. "
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Why couldn't he just say "No, it didn't happen."

Because it did.

This story "forgot" to mention that both candidates were given heads-up on some of the more tough questions.

This story also "forgot" to mention that Obama brought this up during the debate.

Belle Starr...I would bet Wright has been threatened or paid off, but I bet all will be revealed in a book one day....I know it...he has 20 years of stories of the guy who almost became the first black President.
I wish Colin Powell had run so racism wouldn't have been such a factor in this election. I would have no problem voting for a Col