Baseball, Apple Pie, the Flag...

Biden is here to make obama lose. It couldn't have gone better if the republicans somehow planted him as the lib' VP candidate. LOL!

They are crazy! All they want to do is get more of our hard earned dollars. We have Obama running around this week saying "the sky is falling" and Patsy Pelosi and friends go home. It doesn't add up. Except for the big baseball steroid hearings they haven't really addressed any big issues or accomplished anyone

Biden is right. We think nothing of asking our poor and middle-class to put their very lives on the line in a time of war, but we want tax cuts for the rich in a time of war to amass huge deficits to give to our grandchildren? Now, we have to bail out Wall Street because of their greed and ineptitude, but the president has threatened to veto health care for children because of cost? I understand that we need to grow the economy, but we must have balance, or our middle class will disappear. Not all policies that benefit corporations benefit the middle class.

You want to talk about facts? Let’s talk about the stupid war on Iraq Thousands of brave Americans dead and injured. Let’s talk about the deregulation of the market and for consequence the collapsed economy. Lets talk of the billions dollars gifted to the oil companies resulting on today price of petrol.
What the ostrich and the Republicans have in common. Let me guess
An ostrich bury its head in the sand and pretend everything is fine
Republicans do the same and follow McCain
America and the world is suffering with the blunders of Bush Administration and McCain his sidekick 90%of the time.

People with income 250.000 $ or more, vote Republicans on 2000 and 2004. That is what the data confirm. In that case they should be prepared to pay for the economic chaos created by Bush decisions .Next time they should be more careful how they vote.
Just a minute McCain said the fundamentals of the economy are strong .Probably he was thinking about the family Business.
Was hilarious to watch Cindy McCain, when Senator McCain on his speech talks about the big salaries of the CEO’s, and how greedy they are.
The wealthy cheerleading Bush Administration for so long.
And clapping at any opportunity for the stupid war on Iraq which have create trillion of dollars in Debt, The question is. Who and how to you want think would pay for this mess. The Penguins of Antarctica?

Patiotism?

Giving MORE money to the sane idiots who invented the CREEP program that is threatening to destroy our financial system.

Biden is just flat-out stupid.

johnTX,

You make some good points about flat taxes vs. graduated taxes but you omit a key point: the current tax system is graduated and rife with loopholes and crazy dodges that allow the very wealthy to escape paying taxes a rate equal to the average Joe.

What about a kinder, gentler flat tax? If we had a flat tax of say 15% that where the first 30K in income was exempt, would reason and fairness then balance out in your mind? Even though it would mean slightly more taxes for me personally I would be all for it. And I really wouldn't feel any more patriotic, I just think it's a much better way to go than what we have now.

"It's like those who didn't evacuate Katrina-they grew up their entire lives dependent, then depended on the govt. to evacuate them, then depended on the govt. to rebuild their homes."
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Like the Biden (and Bush and Cuomo and Gore and ...) boys do at a MUCH more costly level.

hippie_chucker, actually so we get things clear. I'm an independent. My recent Democratic leanings are entirely due to this Presidential race. Actually, normally I lean Republican or did before they started getting involved in my social life.

I actually believe we should put poor people to work. I mean, if they are going to take government handouts, they should be required to either be enrolled in school or be working and they sure as hell shouldn't be living in the most expensive areas in the nation.

The problem is that my libertarian leanings refuse to meddle at this level.

So I essentially swing between Republicans and Democrats every year hoping that one side will trigger the poor to work for their keep and the other side will keep them from robbing me blind.

I know that's kind of sad, but it's true. This year however, I'm mostly for Obama for certain policies related to education which I'm all too happy to spend vast quantities of money on since I have trouble finding college graduates at this point.

Again, any of you who think Biden is right, stop itemizing your tax returns this year. Definitely don't give that money to your own charities, that you know work, or to your own church, where it will go directly to those in need.

Give the money you'd save in tax deductions directly to the federal government, and ask yourself if that money that you could directly give to charity will be well spent by our government, regardless of who gets elected.

Biden only gave $327 in charity last year, which is truly pathetic given his rhetoric......

John,
I know you don't, but I could ask if do you believe that the poor shouldn't have to pay, say, sales tax either, if it's so hard for them to pay their own income taxes.

Years ago, before we had government sponsored poor people, who are supported by those of us that have had some success in life, it was an embarrassment to be poor, and people flocked to live here because it was obvious that you could do well in America.
Now, with so many living off the govt, the incentive to move off poverty is gone, and with it, large segments of population don't even know how to get a job, or that they even need jobs.
It's like those who didn't evacuate Katrina-they grew up their entire lives dependent, then depended on the govt. to evacuate them, then depended on the govt. to rebuild their homes. The non dependent people, poor and rich, evacuated.
People complain about the govt. reponse to Katrina, and it was horrible-but I always tell people that is what you get when you depend on the government for direction/assistance/food, etc.

Aye Woody, there has actually been meaningful debate here. I mean, once you get the ideologues out, it gets interesting.

I mean, the merits of the various systems and the realities and what not.

It would be far more interesting if only independents were allowed to debate. :)

Belle Starr, that statement would only make sense if Biden was a Republican. Republican believe in a flat tax system, not Democrats.

"a massive increase in crime which benefits no one."
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"Crime" in the streets DOES benefit the police -- a major source of employment for jocks who AREN'T running for VP as Democrats.

The conservatives say that the percentage of the income you take should be a fixed number and that's fair.

The liberals say that the percentage of the income you take should be based on how much "pain" it causes you and that's fair.

Technically they are both right and they are both fair. So we can only go based on what is realistic. A flat tax is very much not realistic. It would cause the majority of Americans to slip into poverty and we all know what happens then - a massive increase in crime which benefits no one.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." Karl Marx

Which devolves into a society where no one is capable and everyone is needy. Ayn Rand

Spy Vs Spy

Obama is back with a four point lead ...
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Nah: he's such a mobster -- and his "campaign" so on top of electronic communication -- people are most likely AFRAID to tell an unknown telephone voice that they aren't going to vote for him.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." Karl Marx

How about the conflict when we're crying about the economy and yet $800 million is being flushed down the toilet with this election? What if that money could be put into Wall Street or somewhere else to stimulate the economy? I do not want to hear the cry poverty line during this costly campaign. Obama can always bring in the big bucks with Hollywood Elite, tho.
Obama is back with a four point lead due to the economy....after debates those numbers will drop.

Jacques,
If the top 1% of earners pays a whopping 39% of all our taxes....and 38% of Americans don't even pay ANY taxes....wouldn't the fair thing to do would be to ask those who aren't paying....to actually pay?

A flat tax is what is truly fair to everyone, Jacques.
As maligned as the rich are by the left, most are trying to give their families the best they can-the best schools, colleges, etc...in other words, people tend to live their means.
Of course, exceptions abound, but I am speaking of the majority of small business owners in this country, not the Bill Gates types.