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MONTHLY ARCHIVES
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A Second Order of ‘Crap Sandwiches’?
October 01, 2008 11:52 AM
Meeting privately with his fellow House Republicans Sunday night, House Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, infamously described the economic rescue package as a "crap sandwich" that he was nonetheless serving to his members, and asking them to vote for.
Largely, they refrained. The bill failed in the house, 205-228, with 66% of the House GOP caucus voting against it.
The Senate announced last night that it is tonight voting on an version of that bill that Senate leaders -- in consultation with Boehner's office -- amended with the hopes of winning more House Republicans when the House takes up the bill again tomorrow or Friday. They are trying to jump start the process, to pressure the House to act.
But some fear that all the Senate is doing is ordering up a different kind of "crap sandwich" -- one that will be found distasteful by even more Democrats, winning over few Republicans.
Significantly, neither House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Maryland, nor House Minority Whip Roy Blunt, R-Mo. -- in charge of vote-counting -- signed off on this bill.
While the Senate will pass its version of the rescue bill with more than 70 votes, according to Senate sources, Senators have taken the partisan bickering over the rescue bill and added a stalled disagreement over a separate issue -- "tax extenders," or extending various tax relief provisions that are due to expire -- into the mix.
Many House Republicans like the addition of tax extenders. So it's possible that some of the 133 Republicans who voted against the bill will join the 65 who voted for it.
But some conservative Democrats have expressed serious concerns about the fact that extending these tax cuts is not being paid for in the budget. Adding the provision may attract House Republicans, but it could alienate these fiscally-conscious Democrats, causing them to abandon the 140 House Democrats who voted for the bill to join the 95 who voted against it.
Will this Senate move be like throwing a bucket of water or a bucket of kerosene onto the smoldering embers of the rescue bill?
The Senate version of the rescue, with its tax bill attached, is certainly geared more at gaining Republican votes than Democratic ones. In fact, look for some fiscally conservative Democrats to jump ship.
Witness the paper statement House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., issued last night about the Senate vote, released last night.
She did not send an "attaboy Harry" over to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev.
Instead, she offered the tepid, "The Congress will work its will."
**
To the extent that there is a third party in the Congress, it’s the Blue Dogs, 47 conservative and moderate Democrats that insist on fiscal responsibility. Usually the Blue Dogs are united on spending measures and they carry a great weight in the House, where Democrats can't pass anything without their say-so.
Blue Dogs were split on the rescue bill -- 26 for and 21 against.
Blue Dogs were united, however, against the tax extenders bill that Senators are going to lash onto the rescue bill. And it wasn't just the Blue Dogs. 218 Democrats declared in a letter to Reid in June they would not support a tax extenders bill that violates "pay as you go" rules. Republicans in the Senate took the opposite view and blocked all tax bills passed by House Democrats. There had been no resolution this year.
It's unclear how many Blue Dogs (if any) will be ticked off enough about the tax bill to jump ship on the rescue bill it will soon be attached to. They'll have to go back on their word to support the Senate version of the rescue.
Blue Dogs want all tax cuts to be "paid for" with spending cuts or tax increases elsewhere. And the version of the tax extenders bill (which extends tax credits for renewable energy research and production) passed by the House claimed to do just that.
Senators passed a bill more palatable to Republicans, which was not "paid for," but just extended the popular tax credits. Senators also threw in a short-term patch for the dreaded AMT, which applies archaic tax laws written to make rich people a generation ago pay their taxes, but today ensnares middle class Americans trying to write off their mortgages. The senate didn't pay for this tax cut either, although its unclear Blue Dogs would have fallen on their swords over an un-paid for middle class tax relief bill.
The tax bill, in fact, had been written off and it appeared that Democrats would wait for next year to resolve things.
The Senate should clear its version of the rescue package easily tonight. They'll add in the provision to raise the FDIC insurance limit to 250,000 per person per bank and also tack on the popular tax extender legislation (to extend tax credits for renewable energy research and other matters they passed earlier)
Then it goes over to a very uncertain future on the other side of the building.
**
House Democrats are saying things along the lines of, "Well, I assume Leader Boehner knows he can deliver 30 votes for the Senate version, given that he signed of on this."
The implication: not only will Boehner need to provide the entire 13-vote margin that the bill lost by on Monday, but also that the addition of the unpaid-for "tax extenders" could cause up to 17 Democrats who voted for the bill Monday to walk. If not more.
Some in Democratic leadership hope that the Senate addition of another tax relief provision -- what's called an AMT patch -- could help keep those Blue Dogs on board, and that maybe some of the more liberal members will change their votes for the bill to support the tax extensions for renewable energy sources.
And, as previously discussed, they are also contemplating adding an extension of unemployment insurance to the bill.
Job numbers come out Friday morning (it seems likelier now that the vote will be Friday rather than Thursday) so that could help them pass it as well -- Democrats hope -- since those numbers are expected to be typically bad.
So bottom line: this thing could actually lose worse than it did Monday.
-- Jake Tapper and Z. Byron Wolf
October 1, 2008 | Permalink | Share | User Comments (233)
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Okay Senators, Congressmen ... here is the deal. You vote for a bailout I vote against you in the election. What part of that don't you understand?
Posted by: Todd Loren Sinclair | Oct 1, 2008 9:25:57 PM
Senate just past their version of the bill...........................get your pitchforks ready.
Posted by: chattyway | Oct 1, 2008 9:22:53 PM
The Senate just pass their version of the bill------------nasty.
Posted by: chattyway | Oct 1, 2008 9:20:30 PM
Idiots who made bad loans to either give them or take them...should dig their own ways out. The rest of us shouldn't be forced to pay for idiots. Tighten the lending standards, change the Mark to Market, and do not bail out...at most make loans to the credit worthy only.
Posted by: chattyway | Oct 1, 2008 9:18:50 PM
"I think marching on Washington is a GREAT idea!"
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It's a great idea if you liked Tiananmen Square.
Posted by: Belle Starr | Oct 1, 2008 9:12:05 PM
NO BAIL OUT PERIOD !!!!
Why can't the politicians understand this, especially since there's no guarantee this will work and these firms continue to be so secretive about the actual situation they are in. America has an economy of 13-14 trillion dollars, there is plenty of money to be made ( by honest bankers and the such )surely they will step up to the plate and fill the gap once these greedy incompetent gamblers are forced out of business. Then if necessary the gov't can take it's time go thru the records and see who was really cheated and perhaps offer some sort of compensation to individual citizens. However no one should be fully compensated so that we as citizens will learn not to continue to vote for shady policians and then stick our heads in the sand while allowing them to be bribed into doing the biding of big business and the wealthy.
Posted by: fool me once | Oct 1, 2008 9:08:35 PM
Hank Paulsen has consulted with China and others for years. Where do you think he has is $700M invested?
Posted by: lately | Oct 1, 2008 9:08:16 PM
NO WAY should the bailout pass! The fat cats who ran this country into the ground have seen this crisis coming for a LONG time, so I suggest we let THEM (The extremely overpaid C.E.O.s and those who aided their greed with huge tax cuts and 'tax extenders') be the ones to FIX IT.
The Fed already sank $630 billion into the international market on Monday, and guess what? The stocks STILL plummeted. And they think another $700 billion is going to do any better? I doubt it.
That money is OUR MONEY. TAXPAYER money which we WORKED HARD FOR. Those of us who work hard every day, and STILL have problems making ends meet; those of us living paycheck to paycheck because of the rising cost of gas, food, because of inflation that doesn't keep up with wage increases or cost-of-living adjustments...those of us who pay our bills on time and are RESPONSIBLE should NOT BE THE ONES TO SHOULDER THIS PROBLEM!!
How about the C.E.O.s PAY for the "bail out"???? How about those people who can actually AFFORD it take some responsibility like ADULTS and accept accountability for their irresponsible actions?!
I think marching on Washington is a GREAT idea! We have to be willing to show them that it's WE THE PEOPLE, and they work for US, not the other way around!!
Posted by: Corina | Oct 1, 2008 8:59:54 PM
The real crap sandwich is that we are bailing out the Chinese, Arab, and European investors who are holding that bad paper.
That bad paper is the direct result of the democrat party ruining the economy and people's lives by insisting that banks give loans to people who cannot re-pay them.
Posted by: lately | Oct 1, 2008 8:56:51 PM
The real crap sandwich is that we are bailing out the Chinese, Arab, and European investors who are holding that bad paper.
That bad paper is the direct result of the democrat party ruining the economy and people's lives by insisting that banks give loans to people who cannot re-pay them.
Posted by: lately | Oct 1, 2008 8:54:56 PM
"only the strong will survive and this is good for America."
-----
What nonsense. Having millions of people, many of whom are children, living outside or wherever isn't "good for America".
Posted by: Belle Starr | Oct 1, 2008 8:11:36 PM
"So in short, yes Belle. I believe you. You were a Hillary supporter who is not supporting Obama. There are many, many like you ..."
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I did have a lot of sympathy for Clinton once the Obama campaign started race-baiting and woman-bashing.
I was (am) a John Edwards supporter. With this "crisis" -- if it even IS actually a crisis, and not a huge market manipulation unleashed to favor Obama and make a bunch of money for his corporate masters -- I'm guessing much of the "leadership" (those not aligned with that saboteur Kerry, at any rate) are now silently wishing Edwards, instead of mob-friendly Obama, were the Democratic nominee.
Posted by: Belle Starr | Oct 1, 2008 8:08:07 PM
I do not support a bailout for banks or "struggling" homeowners.
After discussing this with my parents and brother, they ALSO don't agree on a bailout.
People who made inappropriate decisions should suffer the consequences.
Putting our country in debt and adding a tax cut on top is completely irresponsible. It is decisions like this that have put us in the situation we are in. To top it off, there is not one shred of proof that this will even work!!!
By giving banks cash, you encourage them to loan money (again) to irresponsible individuals. By bailing out struggling homeowners, you are rewarding people for making poor financial decisions and you are inflating home prices until these people screw up again...so you are dragging out the home foreclosure problem.
I know some people say that the government will make its money back...this is unrealistic. If this was such a good deal than why aren't investors jumping at the opportunity to help??? Because they know that this is a money losing proposition.
Stop rewarding people who do things wrong.
People who were smart enough NOT to overpay for a house or NOT take out loans they couldn't afford...are the people getting screwed here. So you PUNISH responsible people but reward irresponsible people.
And people wonder WHY America is heading in the wrong direction. Stop trying to buy votes and do what is best for the country. By having limited credit, only the strong will survive and this is good for America.
Posted by: Mike | Oct 1, 2008 7:52:49 PM
This bill IS A SHAM! Oppose it at all costs!
It is a giant land grab by several institutions, especially Goldman Sachs! Just as NJ's governor, who is a former Goldman CEO, the Treasury head is former Goldman. Guess who is the main benefactor of this deal... you got it. Goldman! NJ's governor, Jon Corzine, and the NJ government over the past several years have directly benefitted Goldman Sachs. It's a running joke in NJ that Goldman seems to be the ONLY lending institution in the country. FORMER GOLDMAN PEOPLE TAKE CARE OF GOLDMAN... PERIOD!
Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio) is 100% correct on this problem. If the problem is bad mortgage debt, then the problem should be solved from the BOTTOM UP! Just like how Obama wants to correct the economy and help the middle-class by starting from the BOTTOM UP! If Goldman wasn't getting any money from this deal, I might think that it has a bit of legitimacy to it. But Goldman seems to be the main beneficiary of this plan.
Floating money from the TOP DOWN WILL NOT correct this problem - THE BAD MORTGAGES WILL STILL EXIST! Fix the bad mortgages - Stop the foreclosures - Save the people's homes. If the big institutions are complaining about the bad mortgages, How can they complain if the bad mortgages are addressed? DO NOT GIVE THEM THE MONEY DIRECTLY!
THIS IS A LAND GRAB AT THE EXPENSE OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE!
Posted by: Wayne | Oct 1, 2008 7:41:20 PM
Chrysler might be on the block - possibly being sold to Nissan.
Auto dealerships are floundering now.
As people struggle to pay their mortgages and provide basic needs for their families, they will not be buying automobiles at the rate they did last year. Whether or not the credit supply is opened up a bit will not increase automobile sales, people need to be able to afford financing another vehicle. A bailout of the financial institutions WILL NOT solve this problem.
The people MUST have mortgage relief. Inflation must be brought under control. This will not happen with a $700B bailout - or whatever folks want to call it to make it sound good!
THIS BAILOUT BILL IS A TOTAL SHAM AND MUST BE STOPPED!
Increasing the debt by $6K per citizen or $25K PER TAXPAYER will not introduce more disposable income to the family. David Kucinich had the right plan, fix the mortgage industry so that homes are not foreclosed upon and seized by the banks. This only drives everyone else's property values down while increasing bank debt and future loan rates. It's cheaper to save a house from foreclosure and does not cause traumatic damage to the families involved.
There were also a couple of foreign countries, facing this same problem, who fixed with without a bailout or increased debt to its citizens. This was on Lou Dobbs Money Line yesterday!
Obama or McCain - Have the stones to stop this bill, BECAUSE IT STINKS ON ICE!
Posted by: Wayne | Oct 1, 2008 7:39:25 PM
"acclimation"
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Oh Lord: let me spelling-police my own self -- that sounds like a global-warming word.
AcclAmation, I meant to say. Senator Sanders, Independent, for President.
Obama and McCain -- neither of whom is credible on corporate sleaze -- do THAT "bipartisan" favor for the suffering citizenry: just withdraw in favor of Sanders, then go ... write books, or something.
Posted by: Belle Starr | Oct 1, 2008 7:35:13 PM
The best thing would be to replace Pelosi, and substitute Sanders -- by acclimation -- as president, instead of heading toward a civil war with the "Democratic" or Republican presidential entrants, who have extensive matched sets of corporate skeletons.
Posted by: Belle Starr | Oct 1, 2008 7:24:11 PM
"you want change? march on Washington"
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Better yet, to avoid the concussion/busted spleen factor, just send your cars. Tell em to park anywhere, with an empty gas tank, as close as they can get to Capitol Hill ... :^)
Posted by: Belle Starr | Oct 1, 2008 7:20:24 PM
BO voted 'present' once again - he was no help. He is an empty suit, and will tax and spend America into a 3rd World Country status!
YOU PEOPLE WHO ARE VOTING FOR THIS MAN ARE AS INSANE AS HE IS.....
Posted by: Beckie | Oct 1, 2008 7:09:54 PM
I would like to know where the government thinks us tax payers are going to come up w/ extra money to pay higher taxes, when people are having a hard time paying their bills to start with, which has to be ATLEAST part of the reason companies are going under?
Posted by: Jamie | Oct 1, 2008 7:02:09 PM
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