Oh, That Joe! (No. 36 in a Series) -- Muzzled Joe Biden Jokes About Getting Off-Message

Reminds me of the Bush campaign. On message, on message, on message, on message . . . . . . . .

Biden is a fool. Doesn't know which way is up. The man has been in congress for how long and hasn't amounted to anything. He can't even wipe Palin's shoes. Obama can't make a decision on his own without first speaking to his advisors, so who is really going to control the White House? Oh by the way, besides Ayers, Rezko, Pflger, Wright, Ashabi and Husaini, does Obama have any true American loving friends? Don't think so!

bah - according to sarah palin, it sounds an awful lot like what she is trying to do the same thing in alaska:

“we’re set up, unlike other states in the union, where it’s collectively Alaskans own the resources. So we share in the wealth when the development of these resources occurs.” palin, 2008

"share in the wealth," baby. no wonder she's been popular - and there are no signs that sarah has any problem with this at all. and calls obama out for "spreading the wealth." like bill maher says, she's just missing that gene that tells her she should be embarassed.

another update: they let sarah have her beehive back.

Most people do not like to be lied to.
Ryan C
I guess you should not like Obama either. Eveyone lies, even you.

bah
Do I think they are making too much profit??? Yes Do I think Insurance companies are making too much profit??? Yes. But I am not for nationalizing them. You think Repubs are the only ones that own a profitable business and are ricj=h. You think Repubs are the only one who buy stock and invest in the market. You think Repubs are the only ones making over 250,000 a year. You better get in the real world if that is what you think.

"I still don't understand why people attach him and belittle his ambitions."

Probably because he implied those were immediate plans rather than ambitions.

Most people do not like to be lied to.

"Joe has plans to expand that business if he manages to buy it-- add more trucks and plumbers."

Where are you getting that info?

Joe? The guy lied about when he was going to buy the biz and how much the biz made and that he was not even licensed? Its a two man operation, 1 older guy who's run it for years and his apprentice, Joe.

Joe would be lucky if he could afford a undocumented worker if he bought the business.

Seriously do you really think a guy with a tax lien is going to get business loans sufficient to expand his business let alone purchase it?

Ryan C,
Responding to something I wrote of Joe the Plumber, you pointed out "Um the plumbing business Joe works for is said to profit $100K a year. Getting $250K profit from a small business means that small business is doing quite well." Well, um, yeah, the current profit is as you report. Joe has plans to expand that business if he manages to buy it-- add more trucks and plumbers. Take the risk and reap the rewards. As you say, 250,000 profit is a small business doing well, but that's the point. If you do well, you should be rewarded for it. It is not at all impossible. I know. It took my spouse less than 2 years to reach that level in our business. Of course, he works 6 or 7 days a week and puts in long hours. But he also has unique job skills, does great work, and is compensated accordingly. I hope Joe the Plumber succeeds beyond his wildest dreams. I still don't understand why people attach him and belittle his ambitions.

I am Joe Business Owner

pied piper... schools and health care dont run or stop the economy. cmon now use your noodle.

however the price of oil can and does rule the economic landscape in the usa , and more and more ,worldwide.

the obvious fact is that some facets of the "private sector" are increasingly too important to national economic security/health to leave to greedy egocentric entrepreneurs who would generally sell their mothers for a dollar.

I heard Biden say that the 250,000 is already down to 150,000.

bah
Then why not nationalize health care, and hey while we are at it Public Schools. Could you see where this is heading. The government in the last 100 years has done such a good job at running things, lets give them somemore. Let's take more of their choices away instead of them taking ours away

i can see why venezuela nationalized the oil industries there.

the oil companies have their foot on the economic gas pedal ,so to speak.

they can lower the price ,and the economy will take off .

the oil companies increase the price and the economy comes to a near halt.

that kind of totally inappropriate and possibly illegal and definitely unethical economic handcuffing and foot dragging could certainly be characterized as unhealthy to the overall national interest at least ,and at most it might be considered illegal by some ,ie;venezuela as pointed out previously

the oil companies and their greed to the point of national harm are making a good case for nationalization. if we can nationalize banks i see no logical reason why we cannot nationalize the oil companies as well ,in the interest of national security and prosperity.

"First of all, it is entirely possible and even probable for Joe to make that much once he owns a plumbing business, if he works hard"

Um the plumbing business Joe works for is said to profit $100K a year.

Getting $250K profit from a small business means that small business is doing quite well.

bh - You miss the point:

Children are the future of America. Don't care about kids? - fine. Then also don't care about America' future. You can't save America from your grave.

"America’s stagnation in educational progress threatens the country’s long-term economic and sociological prospects [according to research] ... If you look at Barack Obama’s education proposals—especially his emphasis on early childhood—you see that they flow naturally and persuasively from this research." David Brooks - NYT

VA was red, Thanks for playing, but I'm afraid your anti-McCain rant was not persuasive to me. Surprised, aren't you? *G*

Seriously-- you begin with a rant about how Joe the Plumber should not care about Obama's tax increase because he, poor deluded fool, will never make 250,000 a year. WEll, there's a lot wrong with your assumptions here. First of all, it is entirely possible and even probable for Joe to make that much once he owns a plumbing business, if he works hard. I know, because my spouse and I are small business owners (yes, and in the interest of full disclosure, I am also a college professor-- spouse does the heavy lifting part of the business, I just do the books and office work). We work extremely hard and as a result, with only one employee and three family members working for our company, we broke through that 250,000 level last year and will do the same this year. So, yes, it does make sense for him to aspire to that income.

However, more importantly, why should Joe only worry about his own economic self-interest? Doesn't The Chosen One exhort us to be our brother's keeper? Just because the tax increase will not directly affect Joe does not mean he is not allowed to think it unfair and economically foolish, does it? Past experience has shown how disastrous it can be to raise taxes on ANYONE during such troubling economic times. So Joe can be concerned about the economy in general and its impact on his present and future business, and I agree with him that the Obama tax plan is troubling in its potential impact on the American economy in its current iteration.

But additionally, we should not innocently believe that the details of this plan are set in stone. As someone on the internet says all the time (can't remember who-- probably someone on the National Review site), all Obama's promises have an expiration date-- all of them. He promised to take public financing-- until he saw how much money he could raise if he didn't. He promised to oppose the FISA legislation-- until he voted for it. He promised a lot of stuff, so excuse me if I consider his 250,000 cut-off point just another promise he won't keep. After all, this week he's running an ad that promises not to raise taxes on those making less than 200,000-- NOT 250,000. And Biden has said the cuts belong to folks making less than 150,000. WHo knows what figure Obama will use when the time comes? He has no track record of standing fast on a promise regardless of the consequences. (John McCain, on the other hand, does what he promises he will do. He's careful about his promises-- wisely so.)

You also trotted out the tired "evil Exxon" idea, writing: "Example, ExxonMoble just made $14.8 BILLION in profits last quarter. How much of that mega-profit (more than some country's GDP) will "trickle down" to the middle class? The answer is the major stock holders will increase their wealth. That's it. The rest of us do not get the benefits." Where do I begin? For starters, Exxon Mobil not only had record profits, they also paid record taxes last quarter. When they make money, we make money. That "trickles down," if you are foolish enough to think in those antiquated terms, to all of us, including the middle class.

Then you complain that Exxon stockholders will just get richer, and act as if these stockholders are some sort of distant fat cats who will apparently burn their illgotten gains to light their cigars rather than spend that money in ways that benefit the economy. Pish. Exxon stockholders will do nicely, getting solid dividends. Who are Exxon stockholders? They are those middle-class Americans you express so much concern for, people who hold Exxon stock or mutual funds that include Exxon in their portfolios. Estimates vary, but between 35 and 50 percent of ALL American families own stock. Lots of pension funds own Exxon Mobil as well, so that Exxon's good fortune benefits the teachers, police officers, assembly line workers (to cite groups I know have pension funds with large stakes in Exxon Mobil) and others who won the stock. Given the recent overall stock market performance, don't you hope your pension fund or mutual fund holds Exxon stock? If it does, the benefits of Exxon's profits will indeed "trickle down" to you.

And finally, Exxon Mobil makes such huge profits because it is such a huge corporation. IT has the largest income of any American company. As a percentage of revenue, Exxon Mobil's profits are not as large as those of many other businesses. It just that it makes a small percentage profit on a much much bigger total revenue because of its size. Because it is huge, Exxon Mobil employs a lot of American workers.
It employs over 30,000 people just in its corporate headquarters and over 82,000 people in all. That's a lot of paychecks, most of them made out to middle-class workers. So they all benefit from Exxon's success as well. An unprofitable company lays off workers; a profitable one can afford to expand and hire more.

paige....why should i care about other peoples kids? that IS socialism. your kids = your bills

thats one thing many republicans dont understand ,there is personal responsibility eg; fixing your roof ,buying your kids a bmw etc, and then there is national responsibility that each and every american SHOULD be happy and more than willing to do ,eg; paying their fair share of taxes.

my roof leaks ,will you pay for it to be repaired? of course not , its my house and not yours. thats personal in nature ,like your kids .

bridges ,roads ,health care ,wars etc etc, are all NOT personal agendas but are things/issues ALL americans must share the burden of.

now if you want to have kids ,spend a fortune on them ,ipods private college etc, thats fine but you need to pay your fair share of taxes first THEN worry how to support your children on your own with or without the taxpayer funded social programs that are already provided to ALL americans eg;public schools ,public health care etc...

do your children use public health service? do they attend public school?
ride the school bus or drive a bmw?

capitalism of any ilk that unfairly leeches off of the low/middle class taxpayer to provide for elitist personal wants or "need" is exactly what i am patently against .

you sound a bit like a republican paige, its ok. it appears you are seeing the light finally ,after helping to ruin the country by voting for the bushes...you did vote for both of them didnt you? and reagan too?

;)

Cliff - My apologies.

"Posted by: Paige | Oct 30, 2008 6:24:04 PM"

Paige, you and I are not on the same side. I'm on the side of smaller government, lower taxes and strong national defense... also for our children's sake.

bah and Cliff -

Way to tear someone apart that is on the same side as you.

When I say I will "pay a little more" for the future of my children, I mean it many ways:

My taxes will go up and I am not a " GREEDY SOBS WHO COULD CARE LESS ABOUT THIS NATION AND THE "LITTLE PEOPLE".

Obama isn't even throwing the entire Republican party under the bus. Watch him on Rachel Maddow tonight.

I voted for Obama because of the damage that has been done to our Nation's standing globally, the damage done to our constitution, unjustified war, and our growing National Debt.

That has to be corrected for ALL our children - you know bah - ALL the ones that really are our future and you "could care less about"

Classy......

The point is that the vast majority of Americans do not make $250,000/yr and never will. That's just a fact.

The "Joe the Plumber" dreams being crushed because of a tax policy is complete ********. There were more start up businesses in the 90's than in the last 8 years, and the tax rates were higher. Tax rates went up in WA state and they saw growth in small business, not a decline.

Even in Northern VA, a $250k/yr income is a lot. It's not mega rich for that area, but certainly it is WAY above the average. (Even for a two income family this is true)

The problem is that Pub supporters have bought into the spin McCain and company are selling them. They are just parroting what they are being told.

Obama simply suggests the tax structure should return to where it eas 8 years ago. That's a 3% increase in income tax for those making over 250k/yr. This is LESS than what we had under Reagan and our country did not collapse back then either.

The rediculous oversimplifications are what the Pub spin masters thrive on. They put labels on things and make it easy to understand.

A 3% increase in taxes is now "socialism". What a bunch of BS fed to easily manipulated lemmings.

McCain's health care plan is a freakin joke. Ever try to get an independent policy for a family of four? You lose all collective bargaining power.

If you have pre-existing conditions, you just don't get insurance. Not at any price in some cases.

And for those people 60-65 getting ready to retire. Good luck trying to to find a policy, more-less pay for it.

McCain's plan is designed to benefit business and insurance companies. That does NOT help middle class Americans.

McCAIN ALSO FAILS TO TELL YOU HE IS A HUGE DEFICIT SPENDER!

His economic plan will cost Americans more than Obama's. McCain will add $10.2 TRILLION to the national debt in 10 years, Obama $5.7 trillion according to the Tax Policy Center. McCain will have to raise taxes if he plans to pay for his policies.

SUPPLY SIDE ECOMONICS FAILED MISERABLY BY EVERY METRIC USED TO MEASURE AN ECONOMY. IT WAS A THEORY, AND IT WAS WRONG.

Example, ExxonMoble just made $14.8 BILLION in profits last quarter. How much of that mega-profit (more than some country's GDP) will "trickle down" to the middle class?

The answer is the major stock holders will increase their wealth. That's it. The rest of us do not get the benefits. In the past 8 years the wealthy have DOUBLED their holdings. The middle class wages and savings both have GONE DOWN.

We need a new direction. Obama's plan is certainly not perfect, but it is far superior to McCain's non-plan.

Both will have to face reality about their spending. We still have a Congress as well. The President does not create the laws. (Except Bush and Cheney)He just ratifies them.