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What's the Difference Between Ageism and Other Forms of Bias? Depends.

October 12, 2008 12:38 PM

And if you laughed at that cheap adult diaper joke (and really, is incontinence actually amusing?), the odds are you’re not at all put off by any suggestions by opponents of Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., that his advanced 72 years mean he’s not up to the job.

But the McCain campaign doesn’t share that bemusement.

And while we’re on the subject of some of the uglier insinuations coming out of the anti-Obama camp these days, it might be worth taking a look at what McCain backers say is nothing less than complete and utter ageism.

"Barack Obama and his very top campaign officials are clearly engaged in a coordinated effort to stoke fears about John McCain’s age," says McCain spox Brian Rogers. "It’s obvious, unfortunate, and offensive."

What are they talking about?

Obama senior adviser Robert Gibbs on MSNBC last month saying, "Just yesterday, John McCain said we shouldn't fix blame. He took a breath and then fixed blame. He said the fundamentals of our economy are strong, and he flip-flopped. He opposed the bail-out of AIG, and then he supported it. This guy zig-zags. Look, if he's driving a car, get off the sidewalk."

Or Gibbs on Fox News the month before that, saying of McCain, "somebody's got to talk about how many houses John McCain has, because he either forgot how many he has, misplaced the keys to those houses, or he just wasn't being truthful with those reporters."

In May, of course, Obama reacted to McCain’s attack on him as being backed by Hamas, telling CNN, "this is offensive. And I think it’s disappointing, because John McCain always says, well, I’m not going to run that kind of politics. And then to engage in that kind of smear, I think, is unfortunate, particularly since my policy towards Hamas has been no different than his. I have said that they are a terrorist organization, that we should not negotiate with them unless they recognize Israel, renounce violence and unless they’re willing to abide by previous accords between the Palestinians and the Israelis. And, so, for him to toss out comments like that, I think, is an example of him losing his bearings as he pursues this nomination."

This came after the 47-year-old (then just 46) in February saying "I admire John McCain’s half a century of service to this country."

More recently, Obama has hit "the kind of erratic behavior we’ve been seeing out of Senator McCain" in his response to the economic crisis.

"You remember the first day of this crisis, he came out and said, ‘the economy was fundamentally sound,’" Obama said in Dayton, Ohio, this month. "Then two hours later he said we were in a crisis. I don’t think we can afford that kind of erratic and uncertain leadership in these uncertain times. We need steady leadership in the White House. We need a President we can trust in times of crisis."

At a fundraiser in Miami, Florida, last month, Obama said, "John McCain saying just yesterday that he would not meet with the prime minister of Spain!"

Someone in the audience shouted back, "He didn’t know who he was?"

Obama continued, "I thought it was because he was confused or because he bought into this notion that we don’t meet with people that we don’t agree with."

Then, of course, there’s the Obama TV ad with retro fonts and a disco ball, saying: "In 1982, John McCain goes to Washington. Things have changed in the last 26 years, but McCain hasn't. He admits he still doesn't know how to use a computer, can't send an e-mail, still doesn't understand the economy..."

Another ad, saying McCain has been "erratic in a crisis" (quoting from a newspaper editorial) and "out of touch," features video of McCain in a golf cart with former President George H.W. Bush.

If he’s driving a car, get off the sidewalk. Misplaced the keys to his houses. Losing his bears. A half century of service. Erratic. Uncertain. Confused. First came to Washington in 1982.

You get the picture.

The Obama campaign denies that there’s anything there, I should point out.

Now, for a lot of reasons there are many folks who don’t think ageism can even compare to, say, sexism, racism or xenophobia. All of us pretty much aspire to be old some day. That’s not the same dynamic with gender, race and national origin. And the fears stoked by race may be uglier than the more mocking ones related to age. There’s a difference between racist animus and ageist condescension. Lots of comedians would agree that crowds will laugh at ageist jokes but sexist, racist, and xenophobic ones are just less acceptable.

But here’s the fundamental question: Even if ageism is more acceptable than other forms of bias, does that mean it’s acceptable?

-- jpt

October 12, 2008 | Permalink | User Comments (153)

User Comments

According to historians' rankings, our best presidents were older - Reagan (6th), Harry Truman (7th), Dwight Eisenhower (8th) vs. younger presidents John Kennedy (15th), Clinton (22nd), and Carter (34th).

Posted by: Rich Ng | Oct 13, 2008 3:21:14 PM

I think talking about Sen. McCain's age is approprirate if it impacts his job performance. Talking about McCain's erratic behavior is relevant to the office he seeks, as is his outdated Cold War-era world view, or inability / unwilligness to embrace new technology.

Also, McCain himself made his age an issue by picking as his running mate Gov. Palin, who is utterly unqualified to be a 72-year old heartbeat away from the presidency.

Posted by: Gene | Oct 13, 2008 10:34:46 AM

Fact: McCain is 70 + years old.

By most standards, that's freakishly old. I'm glad the man is alive, but do I want him running our country? No.

Fact of the matter is, McCain could (heaven forbid) die at any moment. Sarah Palin as number 2? You gotta be kidding me.

It's not ageism, it's dealing with the fact that McCain's age is a bigtime con.

Posted by: C'mon | Oct 13, 2008 9:55:42 AM

Proof positive that ageism exists:

McCain having to go on the Couric show to protect Palin and sort it out!! He looked far more energetic and intelligent than her deer-in-the-headlights silly look. Sorry-- but all you McCain bashers-- what the heck is this??!! McCain seems to be the brains and Palin the show. This is ageism.

I have seen it all the time in the corp world: they will give a junior "energy type" all the big projects and interface with the clients-- and the senior in the background has to bail the kid out! No joke!! This is AGEISM!

(( By the way, Mr. McCain- you have all my respect. Only thing- policies: Please get the Reb party to reform the corrupt health care plan. You'll get MORE votes that way. Because for now, Obama still has my vote because of pure economics. That's it. ))

Posted by: Nelly | Oct 13, 2008 8:30:02 AM

Ageism is not about someone unfit.
Agesim is about two people who do an EQUAL job.

However, the one who is elder is perceived as doing less- having less ability-- and the younger one getting better support, opportunities and options.

I don't think McCain looks like he lacks energy at all!! He appears smart and energetic. Erratic-- that's been there for all the candidates at times-- the stress might be a factor at times for all. Sometimes McCain looks more energetic than Obama and Palin, in fact. He is a war hero-- and who could have done that much!

(( By the way, I am an intended Obama supporter.. but I have to call out ageism here in the play-- it's there. ))

Posted by: Briggs | Oct 13, 2008 8:16:35 AM

As an Obama supporter,just some constructive criticism:

Image, sadly, counts far more than substance these days. Yes, youth and beauty is prized. Would Obama have been so widely supported if he lacked youth and beauty.... I wonder....


McCain first sends out a "bad ad" relating Obama to celebrity worship and him as a Paris Hilton type. Is this smear.. not really! (A lot of people were taken in by his image, not content). Then Paris, et all calls him old-- is this smear, yes! Then Obama's team sends out an ad about McCain's health (?) (bad bad bad- a real smear).

What does this result? The McCain campaign having to with young Sarah Palin over brilliant experienced Reb women. Because that's what the people want: youth and energy over substance.

Posted by: Jess | Oct 13, 2008 8:10:53 AM

Why do legitimate concerns about the ability of someone who is clearly a doddering old coot to run our country at one of the most dangerous times in its history have to get dismissed as "age-ism"? John McCain is old and sick and he is clearly unfit to be president. Age, in his case, is not the only factor, but it is a factor. If he seemed less infirm or more mentally together, then maybe it wouldn't be a factor. But it is not some sort of illegitimate discrimination for voters to consider whether his age is a problem.

Posted by: Elizabeth | Oct 12, 2008 6:26:34 PM

First, I think there is a false equivalency here in reading into Obama's language to show them at the same level. While there may be a bit of ageism going around, it is nothing compared to the overt racism and sexism that have been apparent.

Second, just because it has to do with age doesn't make it ageist. Calling John McCain "erratic" isn't code for old, but a reflection of a campaign that is bouncing around, changing positions all of the time. It shows he's UNSURE of his position, not saying something about his age. Obama quoted USA Today in that ad. I know this is one example, but I feel that many are similarly distorted.

Third, I think the comments about McCain "forgetting" do cross the line and are unacceptable.

Fourth, competency is more related to age than gender or race. I believe that in general it is reasonable to ask whether someone of a certain age can handle the mental requirements of the Presidency, whereas I do not think it is reasonable to ask such a question about race. At this basis, it is therefore more acceptable to raise age as an issue than race (race may be raised in terms of, say, ability to gain support, but not in terms of competency).

Fifth, ageism is also more acceptable than other -isms like raceism and sexisms because it has nothing to do with a sociopolitical history of oppression. Black people were slaves. Women couldn't vote, work, or own property. What are the similar power structures that similarly kept the elderly down? There are none.

Posted by: Mike | Oct 12, 2008 5:53:08 PM

It is not ageist to say that McCain is too old to be behind the wheel; that is an opinion borne of fact. Age affects your mental acuity, race does not. Ageism would be laughing at McCain because he is old, but who is doing that? His age should be a major factor in this election, and he has done very little so far to give us confidence that he is up to the task of being the president.

Posted by: GE | Oct 12, 2008 5:03:33 PM

Though am Obama supporter, am not blind to some of the subtleties of the sprint phase of this campaign. Yesterday in Philadephia on one stop covered by C Span my candidate said ... and that's why John McCain is out of time. I winced. All righty, it's a competition and everybody's using whatever they can but that's a moment Obama is responsible for. The polls are looking good for him and the voting starts any minute here in Oregon and the West Coast is certainly Obama's so why would I wince, disliking the tenor of the Other Campaign as I do? I thought better of Obama, that's all. The whole election was a long drama in the results of affirmative action ... all three major candidates represented different protected sectors, race, gender, age. So it's not easy to parse out the real issues. For me, as an certified elder, how much time John McCain's got only matters if he is president, which looks unlikely. So Obama needs to get back on his luminous high road and just keep running.

Posted by: Gaias Child | Oct 12, 2008 4:23:01 PM

---JR. Come on, McCain is losing his 'BEARS'. Did he have them on a chain, in his car or on his couch?.
Talk about McCain and his brain draining. Seems those blastimg him are in more dire straights for intelligent thinking than he is. Also, remember Obama thought there were 57 states and dead soldiers in his audience. The comments of the Obama supporters are outright stupid. Any derogotory remarks against an opponent to help the great Obama is OK.

Posted by: Mary | Oct 12, 2008 4:13:15 PM

It's too darn bad Rep. John Lewis, or whoever, doesn't get his britches in a bunch over the nasty libels that fall out of Gibbs' mouth every time he goes on television.

Pretty-boy Obama may pretend to be the sweetest thing since sliced sugar cane, but every glimpse of Gibbs reminds the watchful voter that nobody represented by him is really more than a thug, rhetorically speaking.

Get up EARLY, little liberals, and catch this piggish white man on "Morning Joe" ...

Posted by: Belle Starr | Oct 12, 2008 4:02:18 PM

It's too darn bad Rep. John Lewis, or whoever, doesn't get his britches in a bunch over the nasty libels that fall out of Gibbs' mouth every time he goes on television.

Pretty-boy Obama may pretend to be the sweetest thing since sliced sugar cane, but every glimpse of Gibbs reminds the watchful voter that nobody represented by him is really more than a thug, rhetorically speaking.

Get up EARLY, little liberals, and catch this piggish white man on "Morning Joe" ...

Posted by: Belle Starr | Oct 12, 2008 4:02:18 PM

Mary writes "McCain Mom is up and about and she is in ther 90s. One family health history and age at death is a important factor by doctors, health insurance companies and even our government policies. "
________________________________________________

Using YOUR logic, McCain's father died at the age of 70 so McCain should have died two years ago.

Posted by: Paige | Oct 12, 2008 4:02:00 PM

I think most women would agree that ageism is not acceptable. Could we ever imagine a 72-year-old female, four time melanoma survivor, running for President?

However, I do think that McCain's age and medical history matters because if something happens to McCain, we're stuck with Palin.

The word "erratic" has nothing to do with McCain's age. It is the definition of his campaign: lack of consistency, regularity, or uniformity.

And McCain IS confused. Sunni/Shia, Prime Minister of Spain, Czechoslovakia still exists, Iraq/Pakistan border, etc.

But none of these words would incite people at Obama's rallies to say of McCain, "off with his head".

Posted by: cincyr | Oct 12, 2008 4:00:27 PM

Josh ask "Where does this CHAIN SMOKER thing come from?"
_______________________________________________

Probably off the same brochure distributed by volunteers of the McCain campaign in Minnesota that said he was an Arab. That is where that lady got the information to ask the question in the townhall about Obama. Andrew Sullivan has the details at The Atlantic.

Posted by: Paige | Oct 12, 2008 3:59:09 PM

It is as wrong to condemn a person because of his age as it is race and gender but the Obama people ignore that completely. Senator McCain Mom is up and about and she is in ther 90s. One family health history and age at death is a important factor by doctors, health insurance companies and even our government policies. Remember, Obama's parents certainly died at a young age. That means that Obama is much more likely to die young.
Obama has made so many gaffes and misstatements, even policy decisions that he changes again and again, one must wonder if he has the intelligent capacity to be President. I think his high education creditials are over-rated. Common sense does not prevail in his campaign--truth like the Democrats are responsible for the sub-prime mortgage mess, not the Bush Administration. Yet on the stump yesterday and today, he keeps blaming the wrong party. That is not intelligence--that is stupidity.

Posted by: Mary | Oct 12, 2008 3:55:49 PM

"My fellow prisoners".... (McCain's bizarre words to the debate audience, during debate #2!!)

That's a clue, the end is near. Alzheimers.

*****
vs says "McCain with his active 96 years young mother HAS A BETTER CHANCE OF LIVING LONGER than Obama"
____________________________________________

Using your logic, since McCain's father died at the age of 70 then McCain should have been dead two years ago.

In truth, the exact past of McCain's two parents will not be replicated in McCain's lifetime. He spent five years in prison. The life we lead is another determining factor.

"My fellow prisoners".... (McCain's bizarre words to the debate audience, during debate #2!!)
That's a clue, the end is near. Alzheimers.

Posted by: Bruce Becker | Oct 12, 2008 3:55:08 PM

Palin abuses her employees. Did anyone notice that?
She makes them do illegal activities, on pain of being fired. That was in the report.

PS. A Republican is suing her, over her use of Yahoo to avoid the Freedom of Information Act. By making her employees use Yahoo, she is making them choose between doing illegal behavior and being fired for not being 'supportive'. <= her words about the police commissioner and about the librarian. Imagine a librarian being supportive of the mayor? What's that about? Not quick enough to go along with book banning, that's what!!
Palin is in denial now, and says she didnt break a law. No?! She broke a statute in the first case and three other statutes in the Yahoo case. Statutes are laws, Governor.
VOTE OBAMA in 08

Posted by: Bruce Becker | Oct 12, 2008 3:50:32 PM

vs says "McCain with his active 96 years young mother HAS A BETTER CHANCE OF LIVING LONGER than Obama"
____________________________________________

Using your logic, McCain's father died at the age of 70 so McCain should have been dead two years ago.

Posted by: Paige | Oct 12, 2008 3:44:30 PM

I have the pleasure of working with older adults. Many of whom are in their 70's, very bright and active. They refuse to vote for McCain and do not mince words that the number one reason is his age.

Posted by: Paige | Oct 12, 2008 3:42:47 PM

Where does this CHAIN SMOKER thing come from?

Posted by: Josh | Oct 12, 2008 3:40:50 PM

Thank God for Karma

You just don't get it do you these are questions that need to be answered by both campaigns. I want to know the health of all the candidates. There is a link between age and health and there is a link between race and health. Any other question about age or race does NOT matter.

By the way your name doesn't make any sense. Christians do not believe in karma.

Posted by: Josh | Oct 12, 2008 3:38:26 PM

McCain with his active 96 years young mother HAS A BETTER CHANCE OF LIVING LONGER than Obama whose parents died young and he is a chain smoker.

- A McCain Democrat

Posted by: vs | Oct 12, 2008 3:36:55 PM

McCain was exonerated (of his part in the S and L debacle and $500 billion bailout), and it was the three Dems that were guilty.

1. exonerated? NO. He was said to have exercised bad judgement.
2. The three Dems who were co-conspirators with McCain are no longer in the Congress.

Posted by: Bruce Becker | Oct 12, 2008 3:30:48 PM

, neither is an expert in the economy and THERE IS NO MONEY! So economy is not THE issue I will vote on.....it will be character, judgement, track record and PATRIOTISM!
NEVER OBAMA, THE FRAUD AND SUIT

HILLARY SUPPORTER FOR McCAIN!!!!!!!

Posted by: Hope, Change, Hate, Nobama '08 | Oct 12, 2008 2:55:59 PM

====================================
I'M WITH YOU.........
I AGREE 100%.........
I'M AN EX-DEMOCRAT TOO.....

BEST CHOICE IS:

McCAIN/PALIN '08

Posted by: Nicholas | Oct 12, 2008 3:29:48 PM

To our shamelessly biased (not you, Jake) mainstream media, anything that helps theone get elected is acceptable, and anything that doesn't help theone get elected is unacceptable. Any other questions?

Posted by: Thank God for Karma | Oct 12, 2008 3:28:33 PM

occasional smoker and chain smoker are 2 different things. Where did you hear that he is a chain smoker? I have never heard that. Everything I have heard is he has the occasional cigarette.

Posted by: Josh | Oct 12, 2008 3:26:35 PM

I am so sick of flip flopping being a bad thing is it really a bad thing to change your opinion if you are proven wrong and don't agree with your former opinion or is it a bad thing to stick by an opinion to no end even when your opinion is proven to be wrong. Don't humans have the right to change their mind. I for one would never say that my opinion are always right and if given evidence that I am wrong I will change my opinion.

Does that make me a bad person or untrustworthy somehow?

Posted by: Josh | Oct 12, 2008 3:23:10 PM

Obama is a chain smoker, he is probably more unhealthy than McCain.

Posted by: David | Oct 12, 2008 3:17:25 PM

Exonerated means to declare or prove blameless and in order to be blameless he would have had not be involved therefore he was not exonerated he was found not guilty of any wrong doing which not guilty does not equal innocent and I REPEAT HE WAS FOUND TO HAVE SHOWN POOR JUDGEMENT!!!!

Posted by: Josh | Oct 12, 2008 3:16:36 PM

The biggest joke of all are the Hillary supporters (real or fake) on here. You do realize most Republicans can't stand Hillary? What exactly do you think the GOP campaign ads would be if she were the Democratic nominee? Nothing kind, let me guarantee you that.

Posted by: 1percenter | Oct 12, 2008 3:12:27 PM

josh....McCain was exhonerated and it was the three Dems that were guilty. McCain has fought corruption tooth and nail since that time in his life and he has my vote. He is a man of his word....now Obama...not so much....like how he told Sen. McCain he would take public financing and then DIDN'T!
He fips and flops whenever he has to because HE IS POLITICS AS USUAL.
GIVE ME CHANGE I CAN BELIEVE IN....
McCAIN/PALIN ALL THE WAY.

Posted by: Hope, Change, Hate, Nobama '08 | Oct 12, 2008 3:10:48 PM

People keep claiming sexism but never offer any proof that the Obam's campaign is being sexist. Is it secist to ask a woman the same question you would ask a man in the same situation? I personally don't think so I think it would be sexist not to ask her these questions. In fact I would agree that the media has been sexist in their questioning of Gov. Palin for the exact opposite reason that you are probably saying they are sexist (but then I don't know that because you don't give any reason for your accusations of sexism in the media) because all the media has done so far is ask her easy soft-ball question like what newspapers she reads which she couldn't answer for three days. I for one am afraid of the idea that she could possibly become our president if anything were to happen to McCain because if it takes three days to respond to an easy question like that how long would it take her to respond to a national emergency? It took her just as long to respond to what she reads as it took Bush to respond to Katrina.

So what is your reasoning for crying sexism? I'm sure a lot of people would like to know.

Posted by: Josh | Oct 12, 2008 3:10:48 PM

Again, it is McCain that brings up his age whenever he brings up Obama's inexperience. And in those debates against Obama, unfortunately for McCain he just looks even older.

Since when does age not matter? If it didn't, there wouldn't be an age minimum for running for President. The point is less McCain's age but rather the mixed message campaign he has been running.

Even on here you guys can't keep your talking points straight. One moment you have to brand Obama as a terrorist muslim, while the next McCain is saying 'whoops, sorry, he's an okay dude'. It's hard to argue against people who don't know where they stand.

Posted by: MIguy | Oct 12, 2008 3:07:58 PM

McCain didn't defeat death three times to not serve this country in it's highest office. This guy IS THE ENERGIZER BUNNY and was down and out back in the beginning of the primaries, carrying his lugguge through the airports to go from State to State. Just finished watching a pathetic bio on Obama, with NO CHARCTER WITNESSES or history of any sort deserving of the WH.
McCAINS FAMILY HAVE SERVED THIS COUNTRY FOR OVER 100 YEARS, AND AS FAR BACK AS GENERAL WASHINGTON.
Obama doesn't deserve it with 143 days in Senate, 130 Present votes, dubious upbringing by two Muslim dads and Atheist mom, radical ties, names too many to mention here. HE IS UNACCEPTABLE. I wish he were white, as he wouldn't even be in this race with his background, .....lib media looks the other way and shoves him down our throats. This is like Flight 93 and some good 'ol Americans will have to rush the cockpit and take down this plane (Obama campaign) before it hits the Capitol!
HILLARY SUPPORTER FOR McCAIN!

Posted by: Hope, Change, Hate, Nobama '08 | Oct 12, 2008 3:07:40 PM

Obama accuses others of bigotry when he is the biggest bigot of all.

Posted by: mike | Oct 12, 2008 3:07:36 PM

people say they are voting on judgement and moderat convieniently glossed over the fact the McCain was not exonerated from Keating5 he was found to have shown POOR JUDGEMNET. And he/she didn't answer my question about sexism.

Posted by: Josh | Oct 12, 2008 3:05:59 PM

"Patriot"-- I keep trying to get out of here, but I just could not let your comment pass. McCain is NOT a criminal, as you probably know perfectly well. Yes, he was one of the Keating Five, but he was exonerated of any wrong doing. When Bennett investigated the case, he recommended dropping McCain and John Glenn from the group entirely, as they had done nothing wrong. However, since McCain was the ONLY REPUBLICAN accused (a fact Democrats conveniently gloss over), the politicians looking into the matter were of course unwilling to drop him. But McCain was open with investigators and the public, has written extensively about what he learned from the incident, and was NEVER charged with any crime, let along convicted of one. You should be ashamed of yourself, "patriot," but I'm sure you won't be.

Posted by: moderate | Oct 12, 2008 3:01:17 PM

Both Obama and his wife said that the comment "that one" was NOT racist but it was disrespectful

Posted by: Josh | Oct 12, 2008 2:58:27 PM

Moderate what is sexist about the comment "Oh, Hillary, you're likeable enough"

Did I miss a meeting or something?

Posted by: Josh | Oct 12, 2008 2:56:33 PM

Sexism is always OK it seems, ageism too, but God forbid you say "that one" and they say it's racist. The only ones who keep throwing out the racism slam is OBAMA AND HIS TEAM, to garner more votes.
At this point we are all voting who we think represents THIS country best,as when it comes to finance, they each have their advisors, neither is an expert in the economy and THERE IS NO MONEY! So economy is not THE issue I will vote on.....it will be character, judgement, track record and PATRIOTISM!
NEVER OBAMA, THE FRAUD AND SUIT

HILLARY SUPPORTER FOR McCAIN!!!!!!!

Posted by: Hope, Change, Hate, Nobama '08 | Oct 12, 2008 2:55:59 PM

Let's check guilt by association. lol
Obama merely associates with someone with questionable past; while McCaint is an ACTUAL CROOK!

McCaint is a CROOK, a McKeating Five CROOK who robbed taxpayers of billions!

Obama associates it the crooked McCaint in the US Senate.
Should Obama be penalized for associating with the crooked McKeating McCaint? lol

Obama may be associated with someone.
McCaint is an ACTUAL THIEF, who traded campaign finance kickback as payment for allowing Keating to rob Americans of BILLION of dollars!

Posted by: Patriot | Oct 12, 2008 2:54:13 PM

Yes, ageism is suddenly okay, apparently, because The One says it is okay. Just as he and his campaign made condescending sexist statements about Hillary (my personal "favorite"-- "Oh, Hillary, you're likeable enough) all the while denying there was any such thing going on, they are going after McCain hammer and tong while shaking their heads sadly that anyone would think they were doing any such thing. Just words, I guess.

Here I thought that the last acceptable prejudice was that against the obese, but I was wrong. There is no systematic condemnation of what the Obama campaign is doing with these insults to McCain, but the McCain campaign gets accused of racism peremptorily -- Obama tells us that they are going to play the race card even thought they never had and still have not. Whole segments of the talking heads shows on CNN and MSNBC are devoted to hand-wringing about how racism will affect the election-- with the assumption, of course, that the only way it can affect the results is to deny Obama election. black people who do not vote for McCain are not in danger of being labelled racist, but white people who do not vote for Obama are, apparently. No one is showing concern about the insults to seniors implicit in the attacks on McCain. No one is trotting out talking heads to discuss whether people's outdated ideas about aging are suppressing the vote for McCain, now are they?

McCain is a steady, solid, healthy, vigorous, intelligent man fully capable of serving as president. Obama and company know that to be true but still want to convince you otherwise. I hope people are more intelligent than to fall for those efforts.

Posted by: moderate | Oct 12, 2008 2:53:24 PM

Isn't "erratic" what being "a maverick" is all about?

Posted by: 88 | Oct 12, 2008 2:46:14 PM


THE MANIPULATION OF OBAMA IN PRIMARIES
AND CAUCUSES IT HAPPENED IN MY OWN
HOME STATE ALONG WITH OTHER STATES...
I KNOW THE FACTS......
OBAMA MANIPULATED THE SYSTEM........
WHITE AMERICA DOESN'T LIKE OBAMA....
IF HE GETS ELECTED,HE WILL HAVE A
HARD TIME TO GOVERN.....

Posted by: Nicholas | Oct 12, 2008 2:45:36 PM

Obama is a Christian not a Muslim.
If he was a muslim people would not be talking about Reverend Wright.

He is also an American.

By the there are Americans who are Muslims as well. Even white Americans that are Muslims.

Posted by: Josh | Oct 12, 2008 2:40:46 PM

Based on actuarial data, a 72-year-old US man has a 12 year life expectancy with a 3-4% risk per year of dying. That does not account for a previous history of melanoma. It also does not include morbidities like stroke or dementia that are more prevalent in the age range. So, it's roughly a 20-25% chance that McCain will be incapacitated (or dead) in the next four years.

Posted by: doc | Oct 12, 2008 2:40:35 PM

Lee - Dr. DeBakey was a wonderful surgeon, but let me assure you that although he may have been present during those surgical procedures, he was not doing them himself. But the analogy is moot - McCain is not DeBakey.

It seems that many on here are upset that we are not talking about the issues important to them (ACORN, Ayers, etc) and want to talk about other things more important to most of us (economy, health care, etc).

On health care, McCain's proposals are a disaster. Do you realize that your doctor already has to deal with 30-40 health plans? McCain's plan with double or triple this. Do you really think that if you find a great deal on health insurance in Montana that your doctor in Minnesota is going to accept it? No, what will happen is doctors will stop accepting insurance altogether. You'll have to pay on the spot and then hope your insurance reimburses you.

Posted by: doc | Oct 12, 2008 2:37:26 PM

Is an enterprise having retirement age ageism? lol

The Presidency of the US is one of the most demanding job in the world!

If 65 is max for a private enterprise, then McCaint is way TOO OLD for one of the most demanding job in the world!

That is not ageism!
That's the reality of the waning capacity of an OLD ADULT BODY, regardless to whom it belongs.

America's challenges are too great for someone as old as McCaint. Not even a private enterprise would hire someone of McCaint's age.

Posted by: Patriot | Oct 12, 2008 2:37:25 PM

OH, dl, I forgot to address another of your rantings-- that tired old chestnut about the chances of McCain dying in office. You claim that one in three presidents does not serve out his term and his vp steps in. Let's get serious here. FOr the moment, we are focusing on McCain's FIRST TERM. Everyone will have a chance to reevaluate after 4 years, when he will be 4 years older and Sarah Palin 4 years more experienced, to decide if they want to give him another term, with as always the possibility of him not finishing his term.

So let's look at how many presidents did not survive their first term. It isn't just 2/3 of them, now is it? In fact, 8 presidents have died in office, out of 42 men who have served (Grover Cleveland held two non-consecutive terms). So that's not 33 percent for openers-- it's more like 20%. But three of those who died in office-- Lincoln, McKinley, and FDR-- were not in their first terms. First term deaths? Less than 12%. And that includes three men who were assassinated-- a fate McCain is no more likely to face than any other person serving. Your argument is all about his health causing him to die in office. So if you're going to throw around statistics based on past presidents, then let's get it straight-- only 3 men have died in their first term because of ill health (and 2 of those were in the 19th century, for goodness sake). So that brings the odds of this happening, if you are silly enough to argue that the past is prologue here, to 7%. That's hardly a 1 in 3 chance, now is it?

Posted by: moderate | Oct 12, 2008 2:36:18 PM

Sen. John McCain’s wife and father-in-law continued a lucrative business partnership with disgraced financier Charles H. Keating Jr. for 11 years after the GOP presidential nominee said he ended his close friendship with Keating in March 1987.

Cindy McCain’s business partnership with Keating in a real-estate development between 1986 and 1998 netted her a tidy profit, in addition to years of significant tax benefits. Her father, who died in 2000, earned similar returns.

Posted by: McHooverville | Oct 12, 2008 2:26:58 PM

WOW - For a really dumb article, this one sure brought out some of the best comments I have read EVER. Great job Patriot: "Every adult human body, becomes less competent with greatly advancing age. It IS NOT ageism to recognize that fact and act accordingly." Kudos to TRW: "I see next week is going to be false equivalency week. This is the repeated cycle in the campaign. When McCain acts out, the media feels that it is there duty to try to find equally damning behavior from Obama to appear fair and balanced." And bravo Bemused: "4. Concerns about McCain's health and consequently his ability to serve out the term he is running for is made much more salient by the presence of Palin as his running mate, since she is patently unqualified to step into the role of president. No false equivalences please."

It is heartening to know that SOME Americans still have higher level thinking skills! Best comments EVER!

Posted by: Ann Wong | Oct 12, 2008 2:26:45 PM

No it isnt acceptable. No type of discrimination is acceptable in today's society. However, questioning whether a candidate's age may affect his ability to serve out his/her term in office is relevant.
The question is, when is media going to actually acknowledge that the McCain campaign is truly inciting hatred among their troops..time to get your heads out of the sand & quit trying to argue that both sides are equal in their attacks. Doing so only compounds the problem.
In the Time today, Karen Tumulty reports the head of the Virginia GOP actually telling volunteers to compare Obama to Bin Laden!!! Equal attacks...get real folks!!!
Like so many of my fellow Canadians , I cant believe the media can in all honesty believe the two are even comparable!!Its time to really step down on this rhetoric!!

Posted by: Dee | Oct 12, 2008 2:24:32 PM

Dl, You are pushing the same line of reasoning as the obama camp (now there's a surprise, huh?). Trust us-- Obama is fine. Nothing to see here, move along.

Yes, most likely Barack Obama is a perfectly healthy 47 year old. But a one page letter from his doctor stating this just won't cut it, thank you. If there's nothing wrong with him, then what's the harm in releasing his medical records, as other candidates have done in the past. I used to know George Bush's heart rate, for criminee's sake (and it was impressively low, btw).

You see, Obama is a middle-aged black male. that group has higher levels of high blood pressure and heart disease than the general population, so what are Obama's numbers like, we'd like to know. Obama is a past (and occasionally present) smoker of cigarettes, which has health consequences. Has it done any damage to him? And, by his own admission (lest I be attacked as a thug slandering the man), Obama has taken drugs in his past, including cocaine, which can often damage the heart muscle. So, it makes perfect sense for people to ask that he be transparent about his health.

If there's nothing to worry about, a complete release of records, or at least a more thorough release than we have had so far, would easily lay the matter to rest. Sorry, but if you are going to get all exercised about my candidate's health even though he has been closely monitored his whole career and has been open about health issues as they arose, then you are going to have to show me that your candidate does not require the same scrutiny. Telling me he is healthy because he says so isn't going to cut it.

Posted by: moderate | Oct 12, 2008 2:20:16 PM

Independent

You are the one causing the division, not Obama.

Posted by: jock59801 | Oct 12, 2008 2:19:03 PM

liberati

Crying racist for anything said against Obama is no more sad than crying sexist for anything said against Palin or Clinton. There is a great deal of both racism and sexism in America, as well as people taking the backlash too far in the other direction. People are people.

Posted by: jock59801 | Oct 12, 2008 2:17:08 PM

and Nicholas

if Mccain were elected over 50% of Americans would be hurt.

so what is your point.

Posted by: dl | Oct 12, 2008 2:15:55 PM

WE MUST PUT A STOP TO THIS SYSTEM NOW..
BY REFORMING THE PRIMARIES AND CAUCUSES
TO ONE DAY ELECTIONS.......

Posted by: Nicholas | Oct 12, 2008 2:10:49 PM

No way. That is the path to getting the richest and most famous elected. We would have Steve Forbes and the Clintons if it were a one day winner take all nomination.
By having New Hampshire among the first, any person may campaign and be heard.
NO thanks to your effort to re-elect the insiders and billionaires by having to run in all states at once. It is a terrible idea. Even having Michigan first is a dumb idea. Or Florida. Too big, too expensive. Only the rich and famous could do it.

Posted by: Bruce Becker | Oct 12, 2008 2:15:05 PM

Lee
I never said that because someone is in their 70's they CAN't be president

but they better have a massive set of Pro's and have an unbelievable VP backing them up.

you can not take age out of the equation...

and yes not only not take it out of the equation...but it's analysis should carry a bit of weight.

A President not finishing their term...is a massive hurdle for the nation to jump...and guess what it happens 1 out of 3 times.

so is it important to see how healthy (the risk factors of reoccurence of cancer...not for death but just ability to serve the full term) and age.

and what does this guy do?

His judgment to take care of us if this 33% chance occurrence were to happen...

Palin would be the leader of the free world.

Posted by: dl | Oct 12, 2008 2:13:38 PM

Obama has promised to bring us all together...yet, he has already caused more division and hatred than any candidate in history. The great uniter will actually be the great divider. I can tell you for sure...even if he is elected he will never be President to me! I will never respect him or that hateful Michelle!

Posted by: Independent | Oct 12, 2008 2:13:31 PM

Is McCain sticking to his story where we are supposed to vote for him because he is going to put 1/4 of our social security into the stock market?

Posted by: Bruce Becker | Oct 12, 2008 2:11:47 PM

THE PROBLEM WITH THE CURRENT ELECTIONS
BEGUN WITH THE PRIMARIES........

OUR SYSTEM FOR NOMINATING A PARTY
LEADER WITH THE PRIMARIES,CAUCUSES
MUST CHANGE FOR THE NEXT ELECTIONS...

WE MUST ALLOW ONE DAY FOR BOTH PARTIES
TO VOTE FOR A CANDIDATE JUST LIKE
WE DO ON GENERAL ELECTIONS......

WE MUST STOP THE PROLONG PRIMARIES AND
CAUCUSES TO GO ON AND ON FOR MONTHS AND
STATE BY STATE,BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW THE
MANIPULATION OF THE SYSTEM BY THE
CANDIDATES,JUST LIKE OBAMA DID......

WE END UP WITH OBAMA WHICH OVER 40%
OF WHITES DON'T LIKE HIM AND WITH
McCAIN AND OLD MAN 72 YEARS......

WE MUST PUT A STOP TO THIS SYSTEM NOW..
BY REFORMING THE PRIMARIES AND CAUCUSES
TO ONE DAY ELECTIONS.......

Posted by: Nicholas | Oct 12, 2008 2:10:49 PM

panning Obama's economic and tax plans, including Nobel Prize winning economists.

You are kidding. You mean Republican, conservative economists have something bad to say about Obama?
Wow! That's news.

Now let's talk socialism here.
You have socialism for the rich: You have McCain giving my $300 billion to the bankers in his new housing bailout.
You have socialism where "I am my brother's keeper" Christians acting like Christians,
where we start taking care of the young and the elderly by re-inventing the health care system to be more inclusive.

Its either take care of the young and the elderly or follow Palin's path to war with Russia.
Same amount of money. Nuclear war and the universal draft, or universal health care.

Posted by: Bruce Becker | Oct 12, 2008 2:09:44 PM

and Lee

lets be very clear on the Annenberg foundation

leaders from Reagan and other republican administrations chose to give this

"unrepentant domestic terrorist"

50 MILLION dollars...and the entire city of Chicago (the third largest city in the US) chose to name him Citizen of the Year.

unlike Joe Vogel or Timothy mcVeigh or Mccain's buddy Liddy...all of wehom are regarded horrifically for their beliefs and actions...

all of whom were and are unrepentant in the true sense of the word.

2 of whom are linked to mccain palin more directly than Ayers ever thought of being with Obama.

this election is a joke

people are ebing spun like they were the last time

luckily most Americans got smarter.

Posted by: dl | Oct 12, 2008 2:08:52 PM

Obama is evil. McCain ain't much, but at least he is American !

Posted by: Independent | Oct 12, 2008 2:08:46 PM

comparing "ageism" with the racism happening in this campaign is ridiculous.
even if obama were to make explicit references to mccain problems associated with his age, why would that be problematic or wrong?
if someone is physically infirm, they can be prevented from performing all sorts of activities in this country.
is it ageism to prevent someone who is incapacitated because of age to not have a driver's license?
if they cannot pass the licensing test because they cannot see anymore, or because they are physically debilitated, are we supposed to ignore those problems?
why is it wrong to point out that mccain has had several incidents where he does appear to be suffering because of age issues?
racial prejudice involves assigning general characteristics to a specific individual simply because he/she is a member of a particular group.
however, if you point to specific acts and omissions by a person and argue that those acts indicate a particular problem or trait, there is nothing prejudicial about that, and if you draw certain conclusions and act on them, there is nothing discriminatory about that either.
this is more mccain spin designed to prevent legitimate scrutiny of his very real problems related to age.

Posted by: frankie d | Oct 12, 2008 2:07:08 PM

There is a clear bias. And it's not just ageism, but sexism toward HIllary, and now Palin.

Yet, anything negative, ANYTHING, against Obama, is called racist. This is how Obama will try to steal the election, by raising the race card on everything. This is going on now, with the ridiculous comments of Rep Lewis and all the Obama supporters. Our we not allowed to vet and criticize political candidates? There is a cry for racism for everything, and not only is it ridiculous, it is truly sickening.

it also diminishes the significance of true issues of racism, which is sad.

Just yesterday, I saw cries of racism over Palin wearing a white jacket at a rally. So, has it come to this, it is now RACIST to wear a white jacket?

THIS is the America that Obama has brought us. Whoever thinks that Obama is not dividing the country, is living in a "fairy tale". (oops, was that racist too?).


There is no doubt: Obama will DESTROY America. The question is, how much to you love our great country to do what you can to protec it?

Posted by: liberati | Oct 12, 2008 2:06:03 PM

There are a lot of claims of different isms being thrown out there in the political world today. I hear that obama and the media is using sexism about Palin but nobody who says this gives examples of sexism. I hear racism from the media and there are some examples. I here ageism being used against McCain but if a younger person was to say these same thing wouldn't it raise the same questions

Posted by: Josh | Oct 12, 2008 2:05:54 PM

dl:

My point was there are EXCEPTIONS to every rule.

You cannot generalize and say that because someone is in their 70's, they cannot be President.

Just like a doctor in his 90's is incapable of still performing surgery.

Posted by: Lee | Oct 12, 2008 2:05:16 PM

Lee,
DeBakey was NOT performing surguries in his 90's! Get your facts right!

FACTS are stubborn things.

For example, right from factcheck.org, you can see that 1) McCain's tax plans offer little or no help to the middle class (big surprise, I am sure!) and 2) McCain nevertheless increases the federal deficit MORE than Obama:


We spoke with Len Berman, director of the nonpartisan Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center, which has produced one of the most authoritative analyses of the two candidates’ tax plans. When we asked him if Obama’s claim that he would “cut taxes for 95 percent of all working families” was true, Berman told FactCheck.org that it was “consistent with our estimates.” Overall, the TPC found that Obama’s plan would produce a tax cut for 81.3 percent of al