Obama 'Apocalyptic?'

Sigh.

I love how people use "thou shalt not kill" as an argument against abortion and then have no problem with the fact that we killed a significant number of Iraqis.

I didn't realize there were exceptions. Thou shalt not kill, except if you think the person you're killing is really bad or you're in danger or you feel threatened or by accident because the person got in the way of someone who you believe deserved to be killed...

Please.

Now, abortion kills a life. If left to grow and left alone by the abortionist doctor chances are the fetus would grow into be a neonate, walla a BABY. Yes I said it, a baby. A newborn.

Now also, a good number of people including Catholics voting for Obama do not realize how extreme the man is on the abortion issue.

Jman, I know you do not want a debate on abortion but hear me out with this please. I will be direct.
Were you not an embryo and a 1st semester fetus? Were you not human? What logic are you using? It is not religious to say a 1st semester fetus is not human. It is medical. Now how about the 2nd semester as the fetus is growing more advanced and closer to birth. Were you not a 2nd semester fetus? Were you not human? What logic are you using? If you were human as an embryo, 1st semester fetus and a 2nd semester fetus shouldn't we have had compassion for you when you were growing in your mother's womb. Should not all growing fetuses also deserve compassion and not indifference?

Well, Bill Clinton didn't intervene in Ruwanda in the 80's and hundreds of thousands of people were butchered by machete while the world watched. Bill Clinton didn't do anything for the longest time while fighting impeachment about Bosnia while Serbians, Bosnians and Croatians were butchering each other and hundreds of thousands of innocents lives were lost. And people in in Sarevyo were shot on the streets by Serbian snipers.

Stafford...no credibility.

Lynn, I deeply respect your opinion, however I do not believe that the Cardinal was speaking for the "unborn," but rather was making a political point. Abortion is legal under the law. The Cardinal disagrees with that, but to link abortion with a vote for Obama is just short-sighted on his part.

Catholics are overwhelmingly anti-abortion, yet 56% of Catholics who voted this time around voted for Obama. To say that people who voted for Obama are therefore pro-abortion is not correct. Larger issues (larger to them) were at stake to these voters, and after weighing all of the facts they voted for Obama, not for abortion.

This is one of the reasons why I never understood why the GOP's "base" cares more about social issues than non-social issues. Anti-abortion, anti-gun laws, pro-religion in schools -- these are all issues that hardcore GOP'ers vote on, yet have nothing to do with the issues that elected officials confront on a daily basis, like healthcare, fiscal responsibility, foreign affairs, etc... Heck, "W" was the most religious-friendly President we have had in a long time, and yet for all of his talk he did very little to help the causes of the religious right.

The ABSOLUTE LAST THING I want to have is an abortion debate. I sincerely respect your opinion and your beliefs. But that is what they are -- opinion and beliefs. If we knew that first-term abortion was actually killing a life, which we don't, then it would obviously be illegal and I would support that. But passing laws based on religious beliefs is extremely dangerous, and this is one of those cases. Like I said, mixing religion with politics is never a good idea, and should be avoided. And I just can't believe that a bunch of men -- Cardinals or not -- know what is best for a woman better than women know what is best for themselves.

"Catholic charities and love have helped countless poor people. including Mother Teresa."

Yes they do. And Catholics who actually observe their religion are true pro-lifers in that they are against abortion, the death penalty and war.

"Should we be so indifferent to the Iraqi people to all their suffering during the Saddam Hussein days. Indifferent to the terror that they felt everyday, the secret police, the knock on the door?"

The Iraqi people worst suffering under Saddam was during the 80's and shortly after the Gulf War.

In establishing his regime he killed thousands of political rivals. Later he went after the Kurds. Post Gulf War he may have killed 150,000 Shia.

The 80's were when Saddam enjoyed the largess of the United States under Reagan, guess human rights weren't such a priority.

So should the US militarily intervene based on human rights or national security, Lynn?

Should we invade North Korea? Congo? Sudan?

Catholic charities and love have helped countless poor people. including Mother Teresa.

The Iraqi people were suffering awfully under the UN sanctions. Thank god that is over now. The terror from the Saddam Hussein murderous regime and the poverty and degradation under the UN sanctions. The fraudulent dealing and money laundering and black marketing in those days. It was quite awful and not sustainable.

Apocalyptic? Good question but it is directed at the wrong person. The Bush years have done more apocalyptic damage. Let me count the ways: thousands killed and maimed here and abroad in the "war on terror", pollution increased on earth due to wars and no support from the U.S.; poverty at home and abroad is on the increase; financial terror across the world, corruption at the corporate-capitalistic level increased. Just add to the list at will.

If an unwanted birth is terminated due to lack of family support, money or love then old men in the church need to find a way to feed, clothe, educate and nurture them. The Vatican should take responsibility for unwanted, unloved and undereducated children in the world. Until they do, they have no idea what is involved in child rearing in a modern world.

Ryan C.
Should we be so indifferent to the Iraqi people to all their suffering during the Saddam Hussein days. Indifferent to the terror that they felt everyday, the secret police, the knock on the door?

"American soldiers did not behead innocent teachers in front of their students. American soldiers did not bury whole families alive in ditches. American soldiers did not have Kurds and Sunnis dig their own graves and then have Hussein's soldiers shoot them point blank in the back of their heads.
American soldiers did not set off bombs in marketplaces that blew up innocent children to bits. The carnage so ugly American TV doesn't show it."

So Iraqis deserve to die? Is that what you are saying Lynn?

"Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait. Hussein flew Scud missiles to Israel."

In 1991 which is why we had the Gulf War.

Before that Saddam was our buddy so we provided him with chemical weapons and logistic support in the war against Iran.

"Hussein was building an nuclear facility that the Israeli Air Force took out."

Yes in 1982.

"He would have tried to do these things again if he ever got to change to build up his army again with oil money. He was a menace to the region"

He was a completely emasculated shell of a threat. His army was a joke and his WMD program non-existent.

Inspectors found nothing and instead of keeping up inspection, Bush went to war costing 4000 American military personell their lives to say nothing of the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis.

Yet as someone who claims sanctity of life as paramount you cheer this war on and justify it.

There's a word for that and its start with h and ends with y.

Not surprising.

Religious people are some of the most wonderful people on the planet.

Unfortunately they get lumped in with right wingers who use religion to justify their hatred and fear.

American soldiers did not behead innocent teachers in front of their students. American soldiers did not bury whole families alive in ditches. American soldiers did not have Kurds and Sunnis dig their own graves and then have Hussein's soldiers shoot them point blank in the back of their heads.
American soldiers did not set off bombs in marketplaces that blew up innocent children to bits. The carnage so ugly American TV doesn't show it.

Lynn Ochs - So?

"Killing the unborn after having sex without being married is what is backward and destructive of the human race in general."

You do realize, Lynn, that your description of the cause of abortion is incorrect, incomplete, and ridiculously naive, don't you?

Ryan C man if have been drinking the KoolAid the extreme left. Cool down man. Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait. Remmember dude? Hussein flew Scud missiles to Israel. Hussein was building an nuclear facility that the Israeli Air Force took out. He would have tried to do these things again if he ever got to change to build up his army again with oil money. He was a menace to the region. He was the Adolf Hitler of our time dude.

"I'm tired of your bankrupt morality or better yet not morality."

Bankrupt morality like cheering for war?