Anti-Obama Fringe to Descend Upon Supreme Court Tomorrow

the "born in Kenya" scam is an example of Agnotology.

Agnotology is the study of the politics of ignorance, the primary component is "doubt", for example tobacco companies manufactured doubt as to danger of smoking, the initial believers of this smoking "doubt" were right wing anti-regulation types as they are quite easy to manipulate. Currently, the manufacture of doubt on Obama is the focus of these right wing ideologues. Tobacco companies were the first to fully use Agnotology followed by global warming denialists and now the "born in Kenya" scam. By creating doubt they can lead to the active creation of ignorance (as you can witness by many posts here). Basically Agnotology identifies and documents the creation of ignorance. The results desired are driven by ideology as that makes for a much stronger "doubt" creation.

For additional info or study scour the web for "Robert Proctor" or "Agnotology".

Here's another challenge: Name the "three law firms" that Obama supposedly has hired, and provide a source for the contention that he has incurred legal fees of $1,000,000 (or $800,000 or $500,000 -- hey, why the inconsistency?). Also, since such information about fees is attorney-client privilege unless a fee application has been filed, how did you come by such information? Have you hacked the law firms' servers?

BTW, linking to other blogs is not proof.

Please, provide legal authority for your proposition. Because other states -- Michigan, Arizona, Florida, etc. -- also allow registrations of foreign births, so this is an issue of burning importance.

Kadie wrote (or copy-pasted, more likely): "Barack Obama could have been born on Mars and his mother could have gotten a COLB from Hawaii ... Therefore, Mr. Obama could have been born in Africa and have a Hawaii birth certificate like the one he is showing. His sister was born in Indonesia and has a similar Hawaii COLB."

PROVE that Hawaii issues a COLB for person born outside Hawaii THAT SHOWS HONOLULU AS THE PLACE OF BIRTH. And please do not cite the statute that was first enacted in 1982 for registration of foreign births. That law does not prove that the certificate issued shows Hawaii as the birthplace. In fact, Hawaiian law provides that the actual (or probable) place of a foreign-born child's birth is shown on the certificate. So, point us to a regulation, an official website, a publication, a legal case, an AG's opinion -- anything -- that demonstrates that Hawaii regularly issues COLBs for foreign-born children that shows "Hawaii" as their birthplace.

This has nothing to do with anti Obama tactics, this has everything to do with maintaining the integrity of our US Constitution.!

There are a lot of problems with the birth certificate that is online, it has been viewed by forgery experts and declared a fake which just starts the list of problems with proof of citizenship. For instance Barack Obama could have been born on Mars and his mother could have gotten a COLB from Hawaii, but then Hawaii keeps the long form or original birth certificate in their vaults

Therefore, Mr. Obama could have been born in Africa and have a Hawaii birth certificate like the one he is showing. His sister was born in Indonesia and has a similar Hawaii COLB. Hawaii has the vault copy of the original birth certificate which could be from Africa and all Mr. Obama has to do is have them release it. If there isn’t something to hide, then why hire attorneys to keep his certificate in the vault????

Second of all, there have been claims that Kenyan relatives of Mr. Obama were at his birth in Africa, not Hawaii. Also, the Kenyan government has sealed his records in Africa. If he wasn't born there, why would records need to be sealed at the hospital?

Third of all the Constitution of the United States of America states that in order to qualify to be president of the United States, the person cannot have held a dual citizenship. If Mr. Obama was a US citizen at anytime up until age 21 he also held a dual citizenship between (British colony and then Kenya) Africa. Also, he was adopted by his stepfather Leo Soetoro and moved to Indonesia, where he and his mother became Indonesian citizens, since Indonesia does not allow dual citizenship. It appears that he used that Indonesian citizenship to travel to that area when US citizens were not allowed to be in that country

It is not like the American citizens are asking for the "moon" We are asking for the vault certificate in Hawaii to be produced; release of passport records under what citizenship he was traveling when going to Africa and Indonesia, and last of all his college records showing who paid for his education. That in itself sounds like it would also clarify his citizenship and that there was questionable foreign financial backing in his education.

Our constitution is the glue that makes our country the best in the world in my view. I feel that if Mr. Obama has nothing to be concerned about then why not supply the information requested eagerly to end all the speculation??????

I encourage everyone to pursue the truth to prevent a constitutional crisis!

cpabooks - I KNOW the difference between a long-form & a short-form. And this was your ONLY post on this article - so, exactly how are you "tied" of explaining it? I also know what I have experienced in my life. I got my social security number WITHOUT my birth certificate. We used the hospital birth registration. I was in 4th grade (1969) and we had a program at school where we would bring money in every week & buy stamps to put in a book. After the book was filled, you traded it for a savings bond. My husband also used a hospital birth registration to get a passport in the 1970's. To this day, we do not have a certified copy of his birth certificate. He is able to use his passport as proof of citizenship. Which tells me that there could be a whole lot of people in this country who are not really citizens - but due to lax rules in earlier decades have "proof" that they are.

Obama won and McCain lost.

Sore loser crybabies need to quit their crying and get a life.

small crowd (maybe 18)
Remember, outside of the wingnuts, Obama has very high approval ratings 78% in latest Gallup poll, Obama is trusted to handle the economy and his selections on advisors and cabinet people are well liked by majority. He has earned a great deal of respect. It is almost impossible for the Obama haters (hate filled) people to have an effect, that is already quite clear. That’s why these foolish BC stories going nowhere. Obama will have the largest audience in history for his inauguration. Actually any TV show he goes on immediately gets high ratings, his 60 minutes appearance was their highest rated show in 10 years. Wingnuts don’t like his popularity so they invented the Messiah stuff in an attempt to belittle him. It Didn’t work as these phony BC stories aren’t working either! Most people have very high hopes for Obama and on Jan 20, he becomes president Obama, and many think GREAT PRESIDENT. (yah, the Muslim terrorist, child eating socialist, anti-Christ)

speaking of inauguration, a millionaire, Earl W. Stafford, from our neck of the woods rented an entire hotel and is donating 300 rooms to average people free so they can participate in this historic event. With that kind of enthusiasm do you think the “born in Kenya” haters have any chance at all in effecting the outcome?

The Donofrio “DISTRIBUTED for Conference” did not make it to "Consideration"
The Dec 5 Donofrio “DISTRIBUTED for Conference” is over and Donofrio Docket did not become a case. It is no longer on Court list. The 5th is gone, too bad!

richcares,

The site you quote isn’t the Supreme Court web site, and it doesn’t list all cases set for conference on those dates. “Leo C. Donofrio v. Nina Mitchell Wells, New Jersey Secretary of State” was indeed to be discussed on December 5. See “Docket for 08A407,” the U.S. Supreme Court web site. That page says it was “DISTRIBUTED for Conference of December 5, 2008” by Clarence Thomas on November 19.

Paul Wall, you wrote:

"zeb---burden of proof is on petitioner or plaintiff, not the President-Elect. just because you haven't seen his birth certificate doesn't mean he ‘HAS’ to show you anything."

If a state asks to see your birth certificate before you can get a driver’s license, is the "burden of proof" on the state? If you say you're a U.S. citizen when you come to the border, is the burden of proof on the U.S. to prove you don't have an American passport, or instead do they ask you for one? The burden of proof SHOULD be on the person running for office, and every American should recognize their own interest in upholding the Constitution. Whether or not citizen lawsuits are the proper legal form for forcing Obama to disclose his birth certificate, it should happen somehow.

I have read that all that's required of presidential candidates to “prove” they meet the qualifications for President is to attest to it in writing, “'Constitutional crisis' looming over Obama's birth location,” WorldNetDaily).

That HAS to change.

No matter what happens, we need to make sure laws are passed to ensure that every one who runs for President absolutely MUST publicly present all of their proof of eligibility. That’s really not too much to ask, is it?

I have learned a lot from this controversy about birth certificates, citizenship and what being a "natural-born citizen" means or might mean (even the laws about it are somewhat murky). The NY Times ran an interesting article on questions about McCain’s eligibility - “McCain’s Canal Zone Birth Prompts Queries About Whether That Rules Him Out.”

And I appreciate all the efforts to push this issue since Obama hasn’t been forthcoming about his birth certificate. Who really knows what the truth is, but it doesn’t seem that we’ve quite gotten to the bottom of things.

And that citizens can and do pursue matters like this is what separates us, with a democracy, from the dictatorships of this world, where people fear the government rather than the other way around (See “Crises in the Koreas,” MSNBC). Here we can push for openness where other people get thrown in prison if not tortured or shot just for uttering one small wrong remark or getting one wrong person in the government mad. We should remember to be thankful for that. And, yes, in a democracy, it’s very often the opposition that pushes the other side to come clean. That works both ways.

here is list of all conferences to be discussed by Supreme Court on 12/05 and 12/08
SCOTUS quote "As always, the list contains the petitions on the Court's paid docket that Tom has deemed to have a reasonable chance of being granted"
conferences on December 5 and December 12.
please carefully note
NO DONOFRIO, repeat NO DONOFRIO, Got it?

Supreme Court link:
http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/petitions-to-watch-conferences-of-12508-121208/

it's bye bye to Donofrio not wait for Monday, got it?

come on wingnuts, what do you say?

Re the founding father exclusion... Van Buren's mother was not born in the U.S. (dutch) and his father could not have been a U.S. citizen given the date of his birth. Van Buren was also not a founding father since he was born in 1782. The whole case is moot.

The only difference between Obama's parents and Van Buren's parents is that Obama's African father's citizenship is contrasted against Van Buren's Dutch mother's citizenship.

zeb---burden of proof is on petitioner or plaintiff, not the President-Elect. just because you haven't seen his birth certificate doesn't mean he "HAS" to show you anything. i seriously doubt he even know this suit is even going on. i'm sure he would assume it would be tossed out like Mr. Berg's (with his "proof"---videotape of his grandmother saying he was born in Kenya [didn't exist] and another saying he was born in Indonesia [didn't exist]).

ellsbells930 is 100% misinformed, beginning with not knowing the difference between the "long" and "short" form birth certificate. I am so tied of explaining this to people with hands over their eyes and fingers in their ears.

and isn't it ironic that the huddled conspiracy theorists outside the supreme court today were praying? in a nation with separation of church and state is the law. courts are where facts are presented, not malicious rumours. they were praying for the court to invalidate the President-Elect's citizenship. that's pathetic. they don't recognize the separation of church and state and want to use courts for their selfishness.

ellsbells930---what's "fishy". he has shown authenticated birth certificate ("long form") to authorities who had a legal right to see it throughout his life. if someone smells fish and spend a bunch of money, go ahead. the President-Elect probably doesn't even know about the foolish suit. Mr. Berg's was thrown out, dismissed without hearing (guess he couldn't come up with his tapes and faked documents).

should we have the right to just demand to see his birth certificate? how would you like to have your privacy raided just because someone smells fish?

Paul Wall -I NEVER said I didn't believe he was a citizen. But I think it is a little fishy that he won't do the very easy thing to prove it. He'd rather spend thousands of dollars to block people from questioning it. Don't you think that is a little strange? I do believe there are some unanswered questions and that he has a duty to clear them up before the Electoral College ratifies/certifies him as President-Elect.

Ryan C - How does a birth announcement in a newspaper prove he was born in Hawaii? All it proves is that someone placed it in the newspaper. I could have put my children's births in a newspaper in Hawaii even though they were born in Pennsylvania.

"OK, many of you think he was born in Hawaii. Please provide a link to a definitive document stating such. Even in Hawaii, the COLB is not definitive enough for their own purposes at the state level."

Even Donofrio stipulates he was born in Hawaii.

He has provided his COLB.

Hawaiian officials have stated they have his original birth certificate.

And the birth was announced in a paper at the time.

But thanks again for making it easy for me to consider right wingers some of the the most gullible and dishonest people on the planet.