Obama's Feisty Stimulus Rhetoric Continues

Mr kraft,

There's a difference between the need for A stimulus package and for THIS stimulus package. There are economists even among Obama's advisory board, as you probably know well, who are against much of the specific spending in this particular bill. The ideal is a short-term, tightly-targeted package of stimulative spending-- NOT a bill larded with Pell Grant funding, social programs, etc. Many Republicans, and moderate Democrats, are speaking out not against the need for a fast-track stimulus package but against the particulars of this bill. My hope is that centrists like Nelson and Collins can work out a compromise that will still be a bad bill but will be a bill I am more comfortable with. I am so disappointed that the president has started creating straw men to fight against rather than addressing in a truly bipartisan way the real issues brought up by these moderates.

"the invitation was to comment on the article....weather you agree with my post is not relavant...."

If you're posting here, you're opening your comments to criticism.

The Republicans have added over $100 Billion to this bill, so if the plan does get slashed from about $900B to $800B, that means that the Republicans are essentially controlling over $200B of this bill. And that's happening without Obama interfering in what is, ultimately, a Senate decision.

If giving Republicans control over a quarter of the entire stimulus plan isn't enough to win over even a tenth of the Republicans, it makes me wonder whether they're just being arrogant obstructionists.

Watching the Republicans grandstanding on the Senate floor is frankly infuriating. The country expects them to work with the Democrats to create the best legislation possible, but the simple fact is only eight Republicans appear to be doing this. The rest are off in cloudcookooland, talking about more tax cuts, primarily targeted to the people who absolutely don't need them!

Hummmmm, sounds like a lot of taxpayer money spent on a junket, with the use of AF One. Isn't this what the bankers and Wall Street did. Is this a double standard by obaba or what???

UMMMM Mark......I'm glad my post was worthy of all that attention....i'm flattered....but the invitation was to comment on the article....weather you agree with my post is not relavant....

Who in this country doesn't see that our economy is crumbling. Joblosses are increasing.Essential jobs like teachers are at risk.How long do we need to wait to "perfect" a bill for the American public.Like the president analogized.When the car is headed off the cliff you make quick action.The republican party wants America to fail or either they are just deaf dumb and blind to whats really going on. Oh I know.The republicans are so rich that unemployment doesnt really affect them since they are the one shipping jobs overseas and laying off American workers.Republicans pretend to have Americans interests in mind.Republicans terrorize our country by being greedy and crushing the less fortunate.Still surely their must be some republicans that know that they need to attempt to work with their democrat counterpart senators to appear to want to get something worthwhile done.They need to make some concessions as well before they think the democrats are going to cut this bill to their standards.If it wasn't urgent I and many other Americanswould understand and could tolerate the delay .most Americans wouldn't care if our economy was fine, but there is a need for this bill to reach the American economy NOW!

"Democrats like Franks and Dodd were responsible for the housing scandal"

If you researched the video of Franks & Dodd defending Fannie incompetence, you'd find that they came from the 2004 investigation of Clinton appointee Franklin Raines, and that Fannie had virtually no subprime exposure in 2004. The VAST majority of its involvement in subprime loans / derivatives happened in 2005-2007, when it was run by Daniel Mudd, a Bush / McCain supporter appointed by a Republican-controlled oversight board.

"Fannie Mae reported that loans from 2006 and 2007 accounted for almost 60 percent of its second-quarter credit losses."

"Its clear the Democrats intend to use these two years they have in power to rape and pillage America."

...as opposed to the Republicans over the last two administrations.

"Republicans will be helpless."

As opposed to the Democrats during most of the prior administration.

Republicans at least have a seat at the table, and are getting significant changes to these bills.

The fact is, Democrats could ram this through without as many changes. The Republicans are at least getting a bit of wooing, which is something the Democrats certainly didn't have during the Bush administration.

"If Obama truly thought this package was soooooooo crucial....he would be in their slashing whatever he needed . . . to make it acceptable to THE OTHER HALF OF THE COUNTRY"

Except that the other half of the country is only 38% who are opposed to the stimulus, and that Republicans and Democrats are already working on a compromise that will pass.

"Can't we make it just a 3 or 4 billion dollar mistake?"

That, of course, would mean ignoring the economists -- Democrat, Republican, and non-partisan -- who believe that a stimulus now would keep more Americans at work and save our economy more than it would cost in the long run by letting it completely tank. They're talking about a recession that lasts a decade if we don't do this.

So yeah, if you want to avoid reality and let the economy tank, then doing it on the cheap would be great!

Why are we so surprised? OMG! Obama is'nt doing what he promised!

Was'nt he elected to the Senate for Illinois?.....did he do THAT job well?
Voting "present" and using most of that time off campaigning........Did he really keep whatever campaign promises he made to the state of Illinois?

Just asking.........

"Obama is clueless and we are dangerously at risk because of his irresponsible cabinet picks and irresponsible ideology."

And don't forget His online army of 13 million, or whatever it is -- whose stimulus word of the day yesterday, parroted all over, was "misunderstanding".

We are a whisker away from full-tilt fascism with a smiley-face.

Publius is correct. Democrats like Barney Franks (who should be in jail) and Dodd (who should be in jail) were responsible for the housing scandal and now the democratic-controlled Congress of the past two years tries to pretend they had no hand in this mess. Obama is clueless and we are dangerously at risk because of his irresponsible cabinet picks and irresponsible ideology.

"All it takes is an e-mail....or phone call to your congressmen...both republican AND democrats...

Orrrrrr....you can just rant HERE....where it makes no difference at all."

It probably makes more sense TO rant here. Thanks to "safe" districts and the mob-like organization of the political parties, pleas to "your" Congressman, unless they come wrapped in huge campaign donations, are pretty pointless.

This would have been a great opportunity for Obama to be a real leader, and prove to the country he meant what he said............Instead, our fears have been confirmed....He is an ego driven arrogant fool....

Com'on now.........even those of us that don't have any experience in the world of politics can see this is tooooooo much to do in one fell swoop...

If this proves to be the fiasco I fear.....Can't we make it just a 3 or 4 billion dollar mistake?

If Obama truly thought this package was soooooooo crucial to America's well being....he would be in their slashing whatever he needed to in order to make it acceptable to THE OTHER HALF OF THE COUNTRY.....but then.......he does'nt need too....the democratic controlled congress and O'TVstar...will shove it down our throats....

Its clear the Democrats intend to use these two years they have in power to rape and pillage America....
Thats why we should never let one party have all the power.....Republicans will be helpless.

There's only one way to stop them...and thats public opinion....You have to be vocal....you have to let them know they will be fired in two years...
All it takes is an e-mail....or phone call to your congressmen...both republican AND democrats...

Orrrrrr....you can just rant HERE....where it makes no difference at all.

"Look at the unemployment figures that came out today. We're at a 7.6% unemployment rate now!"

And that doesn't take into account the millions upon millions -- MANY of them American "blacks" who AREN'T descendants of wandering corporate academics -- of marginalized poor who aren't eligible for unemployment benefits, or those who are already homeless, displaced, eligible for but not receiving Social Security benefits, and the like.

When the former "Democrats" Potemkin global village of the "middle class" falls, it's gonna be a mess.

After hearing David Obey in an interview on NPR this morning about the lack of accountability in the grants, I have to say earmarks sound great! Obey got mad at the reporter when she tried to figure out who was able to oversee the spending and what it was for.

You know what's difficult about this stimulus package? It's like a full-out military assault.

Indeed, that's what pretty much all the leading economists -- Republican and Democrat -- say we need. And they say we need one about this size, just to start with! And that we need it ASAP!

But the thing is, when someone attacks you and you need to hit them back, where do you strike? All the obvious, most strategic targets get hit... but that's oftentimes not enough to achieve the objectives.

That's what we're seeing here. It's a huge package -- as needed -- but some targets are more likely to have a strong stimulus effect than others.

It's law of diminishing returns. All of the spending will create jobs, but some will help encourage more jobs, more spending, more growth than others.

We're also stuck with a catch-22, in that some of the most effective stimulus programs available are major infrastructure projects... unfortunately, infrastructure projects take years to plan and execute.

So yeah... nothing about this is ideal. It's just necessary. Hence the term "emergency stimulus".

Wanting this bill in its current form to fail and wanting the president to fail are two starkly different things. I do not want this bill to pass unless it undergoes major overhauling, which it seems there is a determined group of moderates in the Senate from both sides of the aisle working to make happen. We were told by Obama on the campaign trail that he would go over the entire federal budget line by line to make sure every bit of spending was justified and being used effectively and efficiently. But he does not insist on that level of scrutiny for this crucial, currently bad, bill.

I'm tired of people pulling the "well, your side did it in the past" trick when someone brings up that pet projects are stuffed into this bill. That does not make it right and does not matter at this point. We have to move forward and in doing so, we have to concentrate in this bill on spending that will create jobs, that will put money to work quickly on projects like infrastructure construction. Let the worthy projects like afterschool snacks and smoking cessation projects be defended as necessary at a separate time and place, in bills that go through normal channels after we have gotten past the immediate problem of passing a STIMULUS bill.

So TruthSeekr... you're saying that an economic stimulus package is okay, so long as none of it is on Democratic pet projects...

But if Bush and the Republican-led House and Senate didn't have years to indulge in deficit spending on their pet projects -- including deregulation -- we might not even need a stimulus program today to get our economy out of the ditch... and things like funding libraries, after-school programs, and museums would be less divisive, because we'd have a budget surplus...!

When Pelosi tried putting the far more divisive sex-ed funding in the House bill, who got her to take it out?! President Obama. Why? Because, it clearly *WAS* a divisive partisan add-on that wasn't particularly effective stimulus.

Democrats and Republicans are going over this bill as we speak, stripping out the worst examples of partisan spending... but schools, libraries, money spent on improving our nation's healthcare IT infrastructure and reducing costs... that's not really all that partisan. That helps everyone.

It would be great if we could pay for it with a surplus... but we can't. But when even Bush's own Fed Reserve chiefs say it's essential that we have a stimulus package or it will cost us more economically than the cost of the package itself, well... damned if you do and damned if you don't!

Obama didn't create this mess, but he's got to try fixing it based on the best economic information he has available... and if the economists say stimulus, well, we *ALL* have to pay for it.

We can blame the economists, sure... but none of them said "go into debt and encourage irresponsible banking practices", as far as I know. (Except maybe Greenspan and Bernanke... but hey, that's why they're not around anymore!)

Posted by: Mark Kraft | Feb 6, 2009 11:05:20 AM
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I think what their stripping out is projects that aren't politically supportable right now. I think that's why Obama asked her to take it out; Republicans were hammering it.

I recommend that Washington Post article. It discusses how the argument for the "right kind of spending" is basically nonsensical. Instead, ANY kind of spending would be an injection into our financial system. The problem is that people are pulling money out of the system, because of necessity or because of fear (e.g., fear of losing their job/healthcare). So, we've gotta get money back into the system quickly.

But, yeah, I agree... It's a messy situation. I'm hoping for the best, and I hope our leaders can figure this thing out in a way that helps, and helps us quickly.

>>>If you did a little research, you would know that a stimulus should include large amounts of spending;

TruthSeekr - agree - but NOT for Dems pet projects that deserve discussion.
Obama is like Bush all over again - fearmongering to start a war - but this time fearmongering to pass a bill with all kinds of NON-stimulus pork!

Posted by: joseyj | Feb 6, 2009 10:41:07 AM
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I'm glad we can agree on what a stimulus needs to be, joseyj.

We can also agree that whatever is in that bill should undergo intense scrutiny. However, the bill does not contain "earmarks." No Congressperson is getting special money for his or her "pet programs". The money would all go to legitimate areas/programs. The problem is that some of the projects stimulate the economy in indirect ways, so they're more open to attack and accusations of "pork." But, take pretty much anything that's been attacked -- STD prevention: doctors/nurses/counselors are hired to conduct seminars, money is spent for pamphlets, transportation, etc.; weatherizing homes: construction workers are hired, people buy raw materials, etc.; broadband internet: people are hired to lay fiberoptic lines & setup homes/business for the net, electricians are hired... Those are just a few examples. But, that's the case with much of the "pork" that's in the bill; it creates jobs or gets money out there some way.

And, by the way, we keep hearing the argument that some projects are better than others. The Washington Post has an interesting article up about how ANY spending can be stimulative. The point is to get money into any and every sector you can as soon as possible.

Oh, and about the "fear-mongering"... We'll have to disagree on that one. Look at the unemployment figures that came out today. We're at a 7.6% unemployment rate now! And it's projected to get worse, some economists are saying double-digits. There's also a general sense among economists that, because our credit markets have seized up (liquidity has been reduced) and because many other nations are having severe financial woes, we are headed toward a depression if we don't move quickly enough. That is scary. But, that's not "fear-mongering," it's the frightening truth.