Candidate Obama, President Obama, and the Armenian Genocide

I wish that one day any politician, especially the President of the USA will stand up to the Turks. We have let national interest take precedence over morality in this country. Obama was elected because he promised to be different. He not only betrayed the Hellenic American community, but our Armenian American brothers as well. Shame on you Mr. Obama. You lied to all of us!!

Well, on April 24, 2009, in his official statement, the President did actually state the words “Meds Yeghern” which translates into “The Grate Genocide.” Thus, for all those who understand (which included the Armenians and the Turks), the President still uses the word Genocide. I am disappointed with his reduced level of courage. However, he did have the courage to state in Turkey that his views have not changed. This is something his predecessors could not do.

So Mr. President, if you (or someone in the White House) are reading this comment, next time you plan to talk about the subject, eat a good meal, give yourself a little push, and say the forbidden word in English. The Middle East will not collapse. Turkey will not turn into a radical Islamic state. Nor, will the Turks retaliate against the United States. Turkey is a pragmatic state that wants to join the EU and desperately wants to be seen as a civilized nation.

By clearly recognizing the Armenian Genocide, you will not only go into the history books as one of the greatest presidents of the United States, but you will actually help the Turks to recognize that their current position makes absolutely no sense. You might even win the Nobel Peas Prize.

I, as an Armenian and a grandson of a Genocide survivor, actually care about the Turks becoming civilized and joining the EU more than America ever can or will. After all, Turkey’s lack of civilized culture has undermined Armenian progress for centuries.

Thus, while I understand your position, if you leave it up to the Turks and the Armenians, while borders might open, the issue of Genocide will never get resolved because on the bargaining table, these are two unequal partners.

I just couldn't understand why Turkey would condemn anyone using the GENOCIDE word if they're not guilty. I think it will take an exceptional leader to accept mistakes done in the past no matter how degrading it may be.

Obama doesnt want to paint Turkey as villianous or as a country who may have made past mistakes. Those characterizations are reserved for us.

This is a biased article. The propaganda has become so extensive, it is no surprise that most of the users here have very much bought into the reality of a genocide. The same goes for President Obama, who fell under the spell of an adviser, the fact-challenged genocide scholar, Samantha Power.

Note how the author of the above article, Jake Tapper, presents as the only counter-view Gul's declaration regarding how Armenians were “provoked," making it seem like this is just a Turk's opinion. Armenian leaders of the period, such as Hovhannes Katchaznouni and Armen Garo are fully on record for acknowledging the same, that is, "ever since the beginning of the war the Armenians fought by the side of the Allies on all fronts." (Boghos Nubar, The Timnes of London, Jan. 1919 letter).

In other words, this goes beyond simple provocation. The Armenians as a whole betrayed their nation and posed an extremely dangerous threat, aiding and abetting three super-powered enemies. Their fate was relocation, which is how nations sometimes deal with citizens who do not even display disloyalty, as with how the USA and Canada treated their Japanese during WWII. The 1948 U.N. Convention on Genocide excludes cases of political alliances. On this point alone, what happened to the Armenians cannot be called a genocide in the legal sense.

Shouldn't Jake Tapper have looked into whether Gul's statement was true? But as usual, on this topic, the tendency is to go with what the common crowd has come to believe. This does not say much about the credibility of those who just go along.

This is a biased article. The propaganda has become so extensive, it is no surprise that most of the users here have very much bought into the reality of a genocide. The same goes for President Obama, who fell under the spell of an adviser, the fact-challenged genocide scholar, Samantha Power.

Note how the author of the above article, Jake Tapper, presents as the only counter-view Gul's declaration regarding how Armenians were “provoked," making it seem like this is just a Turk's opinion. Armenian leaders of the period, such as Hovhannes Katchaznouni and Armen Garo are fully on record for acknowledging the same, that is, "ever since the beginning of the war the Armenians fought by the side of the Allies on all fronts." (Boghos Nubar, The Timnes of London, Jan. 1919 letter).

In other words, this goes beyond simple provocation. The Armenians as a whole betrayed their nation and posed an extremely dangerous threat, aiding and abetting three super-powered enemies. Their fate was relocation, which is how nations sometimes deal with citizens who do not even display disloyalty, as with how the USA and Canada treated their Japanese during WWII. The 1948 U.N. Convention on Genocide excludes cases of political alliances. On this point alone, what happened to the Armenians cannot be called a genocide in the legal sense.

Shouldn't Jake Tapper have looked into whether Gul's statement was true? But as usual, on this topic, the tendency is to go with what the common crowd has come to believe. This does not say much about the credibility of those who just go along.

Mr. Tapper also tells us "hundreds of thousands of Armenians were killed by Turks," and then offers another variation, "up to 1.5 million Armenians the Ottoman Empire slaughtered around the time of World War I." Numerically, which is it?

We know it can't be 1.5 million, because 1.5 million was the entire Armenian population figure, as documented by most Western accounts of the time, as with the Encyclopedia Britannica, and the 1912 Beitish Blue Book, estimating the figure at one million. Samantha Power and most of her genocide cronies tell us 1 million survived. Around five hundred thousand is the accurate figure for the Armenian dead.

Is it true most were "slaughtered"? Isn't it terrible to say so without the evidence? The fact is, most Armenians died of famine and disease, the same for most of the nearly three million Ottoman Muslims who died, even the soldiers -- in good part because of the British naval blockade. (About a quarter, 150,000 of these Armenians, died of starvation in Armenia, after having accompanied the retreats of their Russian and French allies. These are also designated as genocide victims, much as their supposed killers were not even in the neighborhood.)

The Armenians who were massacred most likely numbered in the low tens, and not the hundreds of thousands. Their killers acted independently, and the Ottoman government tried 1,600 for committing crimes against Armenians during the war, executing dozens. This in itself tells us what occurred cannot be a genocide.

In order to prove genocide, one must come up with evidence for "intent," tying in the participation of the government. None exists. It is very immoral to conclude a crime, particularly a great crime, without the evidence.

The British tried desperately to find this evidence after the war, for their planned Nuremberg, the Malta Tribunal (1919-21). Nearly everything the propaganda machine presents today as evidence was rejected by the British themselves, including the 1919 mock trials by the postwar Ottoman government, and the U.S. archives. (The latter rejected for consisting of nothing but opinions, which is hearsay. Hearsay is not evidence.)

As for "ABC News' Lara Setrakian says in Turkey it is a crime to publicly discuss the Armenian Genocide." The Armenian genocide matter has been freely discussed in Turkey for a good many years. Why would Jake feel compelled to put in this highly inaccurate information by his colleague, an Armenian partisan? Aren't journalists supposed to check the truth of their sources?

Why give ANCA so much credibility? Is this an organization that values the truth? One or two of their chairmen over the years were convicted terrorists, committing violence in the name of their beneficial genocide cause.

Let's wind up with the last part of what comes across as the dishonest voice of this article, Gul's declaration that “we have to remember that the Muslim population also suffered greatly at the same time.” As mentioned, nearly three million died, mainly of the same non-murderous reasons most of the Armenians died. However, what is never mentioned is that the Armenians conducted a massive systematic extermination campaign, following far more closely the rules of the 1948 U.N. Genocide Convention. In the U.S. Archives, a British colonel estimated the Armenians murdered 300,000-400,000 in Van and Bitlis alone. This means FAR MORE Turks and Muslims (and others, as Jews) were killed by Armenians than the other way around.

When Jake heard this, we can get the impression he simply did not care. Even if he didn't know of the Armenians' great crimes (backed up by their own friends, reports by Russian officers, serving as true firsthand witnesses, along with the U.S. team of Niles and Sutherland, as well as secret Ottoman reports), 700,000 Muslims were also relocated by the Ottoman government, about the same number as the Armenians who were relocated, suffering no less. Why doesn't anyone care about these victims? The reason is clear: they are Turks, and they don't count.

People should be ashamed for accepting this ugly and racist propaganda so unquestioningly, They think they are being "moral," coming against "genocide," but in fact, such irresponsible and dishonest parties are being highly immoral -- making libelous accusations without caring for factual evidence. The validation of this propaganda only perpetuates hatred against Turks; the effect of the Armenian genocide cause is very, very harmful.

I do have faith in President Obama that he will keep his promise. I give credit that on the day of his visit to Turkey his homestate Hawaii becamse the 42nd state to recognize the genocide, so let's not give up on him, he is still working on it, thank you!

THE COUNTRY NAMED TURKEY, TODAY, IS INDEED THE CONTINUATION OF THE ATTOMAN EMPIRE AND THE SAME COUNTRY WITH THE SAME PEOPLE, SAME RELIGION SAME ETHNICITY, ETC. THE HANDS OF EVERY TURKS IS STILL, THEN AND NOW, COVERED WITH THE BLOOD OF INNOCENT ARMENIANS, ELDERLY, OLD-YOUNG AND PREGNANT WOMEN, CHILDREN (BORN AND UNBORN), AND ADULT ARMY RECRUITS (FROM 15 TO 62 YEARS OLD). SLAUGHTERING 1.5 MILLIONS INNOCENT ARMENIANS UNDER THE THEN GOVERNMENT OF THE OTTOMAN, THE YOUNG TURKS OR THE GOVERNMENT OF TURKEY, ALL ARE THE SAME PEOPLE. ORGANIZED, PLANNED AND EXECUTED BY THE SAME PEOPLE OF TURKEY, TURKS OR ATTOMANS. CONFISCATING PROPERTIES, HOMES, LANDS PERSONAL BELONGINGS. BURNING, DESTROYING AND DESECRATING CHURCHES, MONASTERIES AND CEMETERIES BY THE SAME PEOPLE OF THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE OR THE GOVERNMENT OF THE YOUNG TURKS OR THE GOVERNMENT OF MODERN TURKEY ESTABLISHED BY MUSTAFA KEMAL ATTATURK, ALL ARE THE SAME TURKS LIVING IN THE SAME LAND CALLED TURKEY.
MR. PRESIDENT, MR. OBAMA IT IS TIME YOU AND US THE CITIZENS OF THIS GREAT COUNTRY OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA MUST AND SHOULD RECOGNIZE THE GREATEST GENOCIDE OF THE 20TH CENTURY, NAMELY THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE. ALREADY OVER TWO DOZENS COUNTRIES HAVE RECOGNIZED THE FIRST AND THE GREATEST GENOCIDE OF THE 20TH CENTURY. MR. OBAMA, WE MUST LEAD THIS MISSION OF RECOGNITION OF THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE AND WE MUST NOT BE A FOLLOWER.
THIS TINY COUNTRY NAMED ARMENIA TODAY, EXISTED OVER THOUSAND YEARS AND WILL EXIST FOR MANY YEARS TO COME. THIS HEROIC NATION IS OWED A LOT NOT BY THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, BUT BY THE ENTIRE HUMANITY. THE GOVERNMENT OF THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE, THE GOVRNMENT OF THE YOUNG TURKS AND THE GOVERNMENT OF KEMAL ATTATURK ARE THE SAME. EVERY SINGLE TURK IS AND WILL BE LIABLE FOR THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE. TIME IS NOT RUNNING AGAINST THE HEROIC PEOPLE OF ARMENIA.
MR. PRESIDENT, MR. OBAMA, YOU DEFINITELY NEED TO DELIVER WHAT YOU HAVE PROMISED TO THE DYNAMIC AMERICAN-ARMENIAN COMMUNITY THE PROMISE YOU YOURSELF MADE WHILE RUNNING FOR THE PRESIDENCY OF THIS GREAT NATION.

The posters that make comments like "America should be wise and pick Turkey over historical fact" should look to their own past of denouncing slavery. If indeed interest dominates politics then the Emancipation Proclamation was the biggest economic mistake of the 20th century.

-Armenian Genocide Commission? - by Turkey?? LOL!

"Gul today said he has “suggested that a joint history commission be established and that we would agree to the results or the conclusions of this commission. And Turkey opened -- made its archives available for that purpose."

OH give me a break! What do you think this "joint history commission" is going to find, looking through Turkey's "archives"

As a human being first, and Armenian American second, this is adding insult to injury. Maybe it's because I've cried one too many tears over my murdered ancestors, - grandparents, and great-grandparents of people I grew up with, women and children raped, tortured and murdered for being Christian... I'll spare you the details.... but the idea that someone needs to investigate - like it's a charge that has not yet been proven, is just so infuriating!!

How would our Jewish friends feel if Germany suggested starting a commission to look into whether the events during WW2 were indeed a holocaust? They would scream Sacrilege! Well guess what - this is the same thing.

The annals of world history hold more than enough evidence proving that this was unequivocally Genocide, thank you very much without Turkey needing to rummage through its corrupted and doctored "archives".

In what universe do we let the accused investigate their own crime??

What I want from my country and my president is for it/him to be a leader, to speak for what's right and just in the world and not let another nation dictate its policy, effectively muzzling it. The fact that Turkey has been able to dictate policy in Washington insults me, and it should insult every other red blooded American.

What concerns me is

(1)the fact that 'the genocide question needs to be resolved between Turkey and Armenia'.
(2)1915-1923 is considered the only period that massacres of Armenians by the Turks took place
(3)it is implied that no other race was affected by Turkish behaviour

Let me just say that my Armenian grandfather left Istanbul with his family in 1896 due to massacres taking place there. Recently I have learned that these murders were part of the Hamidian Massacres in which more than 200000 persons died. There were also massacres in 1909 in Adana when 9000 are reported to have been killed.

There were also further Christian races affected by Turkish behaviour - Greeks and Assyrian Christians were targets of Turkish massacres.

Before the First World War the middle eastern country with the most Christians was Turkey maybe 3 or 4 million out of a total population of 20 million. What proportion of the country is Christian now. 100,000 out of a population of 70 million perhaps. Not bad progress for a secular state! Here in the 'Christian' UK our non-Christians (Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddist, Sikhs etc) hold a far healthier proportion than that.

Finally, why does the state of Armenia have to 'negociate' on the truth of the genocide. I would suggest that most Armenians affected by the genocide have never lived in Armenia but are scattered in countries like Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Jordan, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, France, Germany, United States, Canada, Brazil, Argentina and Australia (to name a few).

The Armenian Genocide was as well planned and executed as Hitler's Genocide during World War II. The Turkish government was not only responsible for the mass deportation and murder of an entire race, but also conveniently stole the property of its Armenian population. The biggest fear in Turkey today is reparation on a massive scale similar to the reparations Germany made to its victims and survivors of the WWII Holocaust. What price can you put on the real estate, bank accounts, businesses and valuables stolen from a million of Turkey's middle and upper middle class? An admittal by the Turkish government that it committed the Genocide will surely follow in lawsuits on such a massive scale that it could bankrupt Turkey. One day my Armenian grandfather's family owned a steel mill and a large vinyard, the next they were forced from their home carrying a suitcase on a death march. My grandfather and his older sister were the only survivors from a family of 9. They never saw their family home, business and vinyards again. Myth? No. Just another story of the few lucky enough to survive the Armenian Genocide.

Obama is on a forever campaign...This is getting ridicoulous already. He says anything at anytime apolgizing to Muslims for what!!!! They are the ones who hate us and hate all other people who are what they consider Infidels....I can promise you one thing if he doesn't keep his promise to the Armenian American community he will lose their votes come next election.....he has already lost my vote for sure.

After reading alot of junk here that has nothing to do with the story, I think it should be noted that not only Obama but Clinton and Bush promised to use the G word and didn't. So, stop with pointing your political fingers at Obama. He's not the first and won't be the last.
I find it amusing that it's the Turks who are saying that they are near an agreement with Armenia, just in time for April. Like the swallows to Capistrano, the Turks come out with something new every spring. Do you really believe that the Armenians would go for this? Listen, the Armenian rep said that until Turkey recognizes its actions, there will be no relations between the two countries. Why has no one noticed that? It's the usual stall tactic by the Turks, Obama will do the same as the past presidents and it'll be business as usual.

I am the grandaughter of an Armenian Genocide survivor who marched through syrian desert as a young girl after TURKS killing her family, was sold to arabs and then bought by my grandfather who was 25 years her sinior.
I am deeply disappointed by president Obama's actions. We should never let a THIRD WORLD COUNTRY DICTATE US!!!
Especially when their getting paid for their services!!!

The tentative agreement between the two countries includes a historical commission which would make a conclusion about just what happened in the early part of the last century, when hundreds of thousands of Armenians were killed by Turks.

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So they have a tentative agreement, and you expect Obama to interject on that agreement?
Posted by: Thinking | Apr 6, 2009 8:00:05 PM
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Yes. We prefer cowboy diplomacy: shoot first then ask questions.

{Kedi wrote: "The Ottoman Empire no longer exists and to censure Turkey for the actions of an country that no longer exists is futile. "}

Kedi, it isn't a censure of Turkey to simply recognize the Ottoman Genocide against Armenians, which is a historical fact.

It is modern Turkey that has made a simple issue into a quagmire for itself by spending millions in the US to lobby against a simple commemoration of a historic fact.

Mark my words -- Obama will issue an unequivocal statement recognizing the Armenian genocide on April 24. This was just preliminary pep talk.

Jake, I hope you keep on this and let us know what happens on April 24.

Posted by: Spencer | Apr 6, 2009 7:50:49 PM

Ah, Spencer, yours is the example of the argument made on half of the information.

You should have read the other post.