Obama Warns of Insurance Industry’s 'Last Ditch Effort' to Block Reform: 'It’s Smoke And Mirrors'

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Posted by: Manitu | Oct 20, 2009 6:06:49 AM

Here you go: google "misguided money mentalities" or "One lesson from the Great Depression is that you should never underestimate the destructive power of bad ideas. And some of the bad ideas that helped cause the Depression have, alas, proved all too durable: in modified form, they continue to influence economic debate today."

RASMUSSEN IS NOT VERY CREDITABLE.

Posted by: Manitu | Oct 20, 2009 5:58:32 AM

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And many don't consider it as CREDIBLE as other polls either.

INTERESTING THAT THE LIBS ON HERE HAVE "NOT" DISPUTED MY COMMENT THAT OBAMA'S "JUNK" WILL CAUSE THE DOLLAR TO FALL LIKE A ROCK ON THE GLOBAL MARKET. AS WE SPEAK, OTHER NATIONS ARE BACKING AWAY FROM THE DOLLAR AS AN ANTICIPATION OF THE COMING SCENARIO.

WASHINGTON POST POLL? POST IS PRETTY MUCH A BRANCH OF THE DEM PARTY - WHAT DO YOU EXPECT? TRY RASMUSSEN. OH, I FORGOT RASMUSSEN IS NOT VERY CREDITABLE.

"57 percent of all Americans now favor a public insurance option, while 40 percent oppose it."

Posted by: julieterra | Oct 19, 2009 10:13:34 PM

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As we've been sayin' ...

NOT MEANT TO BE FUNNY.

Posted by: Manitu | Oct 19, 2009 9:57:07 PM

No, not funny. Perhaps just paranoid, alarmist, bizarre, desperate and in keeping with the GOP strategy to "derail"?

According to a memo (obtained by CNN) Conservatives for Patients’ Rights (CPR)is urging tea party organizations and conservative think tanks to join them in a coordinated approach to attacking health reform. The memo argues that a synchronized messaging strategy will help “to deliver a decisive ‘knock out’ punch” to health care legislation. they've hired a swift-boat style lobbyist.

Meanwhile, check out the results of the latest WaPo-ABC poll. People want a public option more than they want bipartisanship or Republican-style health care reform. Nevertheless, the DNC has delivered mops to the RNC. We'll see whether they have to the courage to grab a mop or two and help clean up the mess left behind by the implementation Republican "ideas" for the past 8-12 years.

"WHEN OBAMA GETS ALL THE "JUNK" HE WANTS"
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"A new Washington Post-ABC News poll shows that support for a government-run health-care plan to compete with private insurers . . . wins clear majority support from the public."

"57 percent of all Americans now favor a public insurance option, while 40 percent oppose it."

ALL THIS DISCUSSION IS A WASTE. WHEN OBAMA GETS ALL THE "JUNK" HE WANTS, BY THEN THE DOLLAR WILL BE PRETTY MUCH NEXT TO WORTHLESS AND WE WILL DELIVERED TO THIRD WORLD STATUS - NOT MEANT TO BE FUNNY.

ryanc...Again, there is a fundamental difference between a community owned service like schools, roads, police/fire departments, and a federal government run service...Local community services are paid for with local tax payers dollars approved by the local bond issues etc that come up for approval by the voters...new schools, roads, increase police presence are often turned down by the voters on a local level...When the federal government takes over a service more often than not, the individual citizen is not given a choice in the matter....And no, I do not want my utility company such as phone, energy, internet services, water services or health care services etc. supervised, of which I will have no vote/no say in the matter, by the federal government...I can fire a private firm, I can vote against a bond issue on the local level...the federal governemnt....I'm stuck...

I suggest you look up the definition of socialism and also look at the people in obama's administration. I don't think you understand what you are supporting.

Posted by: Jenny | Oct 19, 2009 5:08:10 PM

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I know what socialism is. I've studied political and economic theories (albeit not to any great extent but certainly enough to know we're not moving toward being a socialist country). I've been to a socialist country (Belarus) as well as several social democracies (which is different), and I have friends who are immigrants from both socialist countries and social democracies. I don't want to live in a socialist country. But we already live in a country that incorporates elements of socialism (see Ryan's post) and capitalism into a mixed economy. Countries in Europe take that a step further by liberalizing health care, often child care and rail. If that's what you're afraid of, then I'd have to ask why and also how do you define socialism and being a socialist? And how do you define capitalism and being a capitalist? 100% capitalism , or some percentage of capitalism in a mixed economy? Because to me (and I'm not alone) it certainly sounds like your side is the side that is mixed up, scared, and scaremongering-- or simply being nefarious for partisan purposes.

The funny thing is we're not even talking about socializing medicine or health care, just a small portion of health insurance, or the pooling of risk. And yet, all the socialist claims. It's silly.

As for the people in Obama's admin and cabinet, as it turns out, I like Rahm (most of the time), Hillary, General James Jones, Gates, Austan Goolsbee, Kathleen Sebelius, Janet Napolitano, Joe Biden, David Axelrod, Peter Orszag, Robert Gibbs and so on-- and I don't think they're scary. I'm not one prone to conspiracy theories. In fact, my issues with the insurance lobby come from direct experience rather than being prone to falling for scaremongering or rhetoric-- I worked in the health insurance and managed care sector for 16 years, and when Hillary was trying to do reform in the 90s my boss flew on his private jet to DC nearly every weekend. I find Wendell Potter to be spot on.

I agree that there are plenty of Americans that do not want socialism because they have no idea what socialism is.

And the right wing preys on this ignorance.

Posted by: Ryan C | Oct 19, 2009 2:55:17 PM
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And you support socialism why?

Alyson, I suggest you look up the definition of socialism and also look at the people in obama's administration. I don't think you understand what you are supporting.

The American people do not want socialism"

The American people are against:

Public Schools?

Roads?

Police and FIre Dept?

Medicare?

Social Security?

I agree that there are plenty of Americans that do not want socialism because they have no idea what socialism is.

And the right wing preys on this ignorance.

Where were you, Alyson, when Bush declared war on Iraq? Were you protesting it

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Yes. Absolutely!!!

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Perhaps you have a large investment in obama and I don't mean financially.

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Not sure what that means. I have children so in that manner I have an investment in assuring the country is never again in the hands of pro-war, anti-science, anti-progress wingnuts. I do like Obama, but at the beginning of the primary I cut very fat checks for both Clinton and Obama. My goal? No more wingnuts in the WH -- or preferably elected office. I'm invested in this country, that's what I'm invested in.

As for being a socialist and scared-- I'm neither. I think people who call Democrats, progressives, and American liberals "socialists" ( as well as Marxists and communists and fascists) are missing a few screws, or have been driven over the edge by something-- it's totally bizarre to me. It seems as if their anger and sour grape w(h)ine has driven a group in mass toward a nervous breakdown-- and I'm actually not saying that to be mean. It's how I see it. I mostly think that's sad, and that its proof we need much better education in this country. And possibly better mental health care.

Tort reform. Let's say we get government run health care. A lawyer sues a doctor or hospital or the government run health care company on behalf of a patient and they win millions of dollars. Who is the lawyer suing? The government. Who pays the award? The fees? The American taxpayer?

Robin, maybe you should look at both sides of the situation and see where this socialist administration is taking us through their foreign and domestic policies. We have a trillion dollar deficit and they want to add to it by socializing health care. You think insurance companies are corrupt and only care about making money? What will happen when the government is the insurance company? And, how will this health care reform create jobs? Will it create government jobs? If so, who pays for government jobs?

Really, does this make any sense to you at all? We don't have the promised 3.5 million jobs from the stimulus money (a trillion more we didn't have in the first place). And we're going to trust the government with our health care?

No.

Jenny, I'll be glad to debate more later, I have to go now, I have a (very capitalistic) job, and trust me (or not) - the last thing I want is "socialism" - however, I also do not want a government run by private corporate money, which is where we have been heading - witness the massive 380 million dollar (up to now) spending spree by the health care industry to kill this latest reform effort. And I like 10s of millions of Americans remain politically mobilized due to the incompetence and serial lying of the GOP during this past decade. Say what you will about what Americans want - see ya at the next election.

Alyson and Robin, I see you're on here full force defending the health care legislation. You both are making a valiant effort. But you are not paying attention to the American people. They don't want it.

Where were you, Alyson, when Bush declared war on Iraq? Were you protesting it or do you have an ulterior motive to protest now? Perhaps you have a large investment in obama and I don't mean financially.

The American people do not want socialism. The more you try to push it the more they will push back. I see the same socialists on these boards over and over. There are 5 or so regulars including both of you. I see new names of people against health care on these boards all the time. They are not just GOP's. And we all know that the GOP is losing people. It's the Independents, it's the moderate Dems and maybe a few liberals. I like how you try to put a face on your enemy - Fox, GOP's, right wing. You know the truth - there are many more who cannot be labeled and that scares you. Axlerod and Emmanual are scared too.

Dear Jenny | Oct 19, 2009 1:49:33 PM, the issue is health care reform - why don't we stick with that for the moment - and the ability of every hard-working American to go to bed at night without the fear that serious illness will wipe them out financially or kill them or their loved ones because a for-profit company is more interested in its bottom line than in their survival. Health care reform is something the American people have said they want for as long as I am alive (I'm over 50), but the industry pays off politicians to stop it each time. Obama was elected by a strong majority and a central part of his platform was health care reform. So it's not a "power grab" - in fact, Baucus et al. have been bought off, and we'll end up getting less than what We the People wanted - so don't be so glum.
On the economy, well Bush/Cheney tanked it so thoroughly that that's going to take some time - a lot of negative momentum to turn around there, don't you agree? On Afghanistan, it's such a dog's breakfast there, Bush may have inadvertently been smart to ignore it while his government invaded Iraq for Halliburton; anyway, should we put our boys in harm's way for Karzai - you be the judge for yourself. Btw I was addressing health care industry lobbyists in my first post: are you one of them?