The Biden Gambit

Oh, yes, glaot, Mr. axelrod.....but can we gloat because Both Biden and President Obama got pasted in Virginia (by a landslide 59%-41% margin across the board, in whcih no Democrat assemblyman opposed by a Reublican won) and New Jersey (Carried by Prez O and Biden in 2008 by 16%, but lost to Corzine against a Republican [Christie] by 5%, in whcih O and Biden both campaigned heavily)?

Thanks for glossing over the obvious....

I would have voted for Joe Biden for President for his straight forward attitude and years of experience...now I am not too sure with his attack dog condescending attitude, Sarah??...so UNPROFESSIONAL, thought he was smarter than that...guess he just like every other politician never bite the hand that feeds you(Obama.)

===In the other case, you have a President putting his feet on the desk, like every other President before him.===

I have no idea what you are referring to.

The sooner you.... and people like you... acknowledge these differences, the sooner the GOP will regain its sanity.
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I have good news for you.
If you interviewed people in the GOP and asked them "Which is more important, 'War' or 'Feet on the Desk'", you would get an answer of "war" every time.
So. You can probably stop fretting about such things.

You don't think there is a difference between HATING Obama and disapproving of particular policies carried out by Bush?

I guess I am not surprised. Because otherwise the extremist right-wing offensive against Obama would otherwise be unjustifiable without couching it all in some kind of perverse moral relativism.

In the conservative mind, Bush's invasion of Iraq (and the criticism it provoked) is equal to, say, Obama's feet on his desk (and the outrage, often racially tinged, that it provoked).

In one case, you have a President starting a war and all the loss of life and money that goes with it... and people being incredibly nervous about it.

In the other case, you have a President putting his feet on the desk, like every other President before him.... and people thinking that for some reason, it is a disrespect to the desk to have those particular feet on it.

One involves people worrying about the loss of life and the future security of the country. The other involves people just not liking Obama, not because his feet could potentially cost the country billions of dollars and thousands of lives, but because they were HIS feet and it is insulting for someone like HIM to put his feel on the same desk that those other guys put their feet on.

Right or wrong, I can understand cries of concern when people's lives are on the line. I cannot understand the wailing and gnashing of teeth that accompanies Obama's every move.

There is a world of difference between the two.

The sooner you.... and people like you... acknowledge these differences, the sooner the GOP will regain its sanity.

The difference between someone like Palin and someone like Christie is that, while both are Republicans, one is moderate. Given Corzine's problems, I think it is a great thing he was voted out. And, I think Christie is going to be a good governor. Palin, on the other, is increasingly marginal, and it is something she is actively doing to herself.

I think we all win when marginal figures fall to their own extremism.

And I think this is something we should keep score over. Because we all need to be reminded that this is not what the country needs right now.

YOU clearly believe that the number 1 thing for America is that we defeat Obama and make him fail. But I don't think most Americans think that.

And so, 2-0, is 2 wins for common sense and 2 FAILS for pointless, self-destructive, self-indulgent rage.

It's too bad that this duality has become personalized.... it would be better if it remained an abstraction.... but Palin has made herself the pinup girl for rage... and, so, when rage loses... she loses, too. And because her rage dependent on the hope that Obama might fail, when rage fails, Obama wins.

Again, too bad. But that's kind of what the GOP has been trying to do for a while. It's not Obama's fault.

===I think that there is a world of difference between this sort of opposition and the kind of opposition that you are defending, Axey.===

I don't.

I don't know. I wanted Bush to be an excellent President. And I cheered when he finally beat Gore in 2000.

But he didn't do a good job.

Do I wish Bush ill? No. Do I support people screaming at him and wishing for his failure? No. Would I welcome the opportunity to shake his hand? It would be an honor!

But I did write many, many letters asking him to consider doing things differently.

I think that there is a world of difference between this sort of opposition and the kind of opposition that you are defending, Axey.

It's childish to think that everything bad in the future ought to be allowed because something bad happened in the past.

===never capable of standing for anything in particular except the idea of being against.===

Yes, much better to be part of the party that is keeping score. 2-0.

===. I bet on my country and my President. Any fool can be against something, but it's quite different to be For something. ===

You are a study in contradictions. You didn't bet on your country and your president when Bush was in office.

Maybee....

at this point you are just trying to win an argument.

I think the difference is that Obama is a moderate trying to make a good policy.

Joe Wilson's action, on the other hand, is just a symbolic gesture, more reflective of rage than an effort to create good policy.

And there's the problem with the GOP. Looking always for little angles and little tricks.... never capable of standing for anything in particular except the idea of being against. And making up excuses for their own bad behavior.

MayBee.... of course it is a red herring. But they use it to get votes.

Don't blame me.... blame Rush Limbaugh for this nonsense. Blame Grover Norquist. Blame Michelle Bachmann and Sarah Palin and all the other dingbots that ran away with the GOP.

They know that their whole schtick is just an effective pose.... but they do it anyway.

How is it that people ON medicare are opposed to government health care? Because people don't have a clue. They are just afraid.... and some people have found that if they stoke this fear into rage.... they can ride this wave of fury for their own benefit.

Until the GOP gets rid of these crass opportunists, it will continue to be idiotic.

I wish it were different, I really do... because I don't particularly enjoy voting for Democrats. But that's just the way it is. And until the GOP sees the writing on the wall, it will continue to be that way.

Well, gobot, don't forget it is President Obama who stood in front of the nation in prime time and promised that taxpayer health care money would simply not go to illegal immigrants.
So, he's equally concerned as Representative Wilson. With a lot more power and a bigger microphone.

"A vote for a former Army Lawyer, a long time state senator, and a US Congressman for the past 8 years is a vote against the very idea of government.....why?"

Whatever Joe Wilson was in a former life, it's not what he represents now.

Now, Joe Wilson is the candidate whose chief accomplishment is screaming at the President because he's afraid that somewhere, somehow, a Mexican baby might get treated for dysentery in an American hospital, then apologizing for the atavistic outburst, and then unapologizing by going around the country using his primate moment to raise money for his future campaign.

If Joe Wilson was once an upstanding man is of little consequence. Once he found out that he could, by crooking his back, dragging his knuckles, and flinging his own waste, he could win more votes.... he decided to run with it.

That's what he is. That's what he does. That's why people send him money.

And, I suspect, deep down inside, most of them know that the government, no matter how much they yell at it, is not going to vanish.
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Who, even on the surface, is talking about government vanishing?
Not Palin, Thompson, Pawlenty, Hoffman, or Wilson.
Talk about your red herring.

I backed away from McCain after he picked Palin. I just couldn't stand the idea of that inept goofball being a heartbeat away from the Presidency.

We'd be as well-served with a rabid chinchilla in the White House. And, while Obama isn't perfect, I'd take the certainty of a moderate like Obama than the possibility of an impulsive, ill-tempered chinchilla.

I went to a college where there were a lot of wealthy students. A lot of them were really angry with their parents for various reasons.... even as they lived comfortably off their largesse.

To see this pattern replicated collectively by an extremist wing of the GOP is kind of funny, but mostly sad. You have all these people angry with the government... even taking extreme stances... calling for its abolition or speaking of secession. But every day these people live under the safety and security of a functioning civil society, where taxes are levied and services are provided.

I can understand readjusting our fiscal priorities.... but it is naive and childish to think that government IS the source of all out problems. And, I suspect, deep down inside, most of them know that the government, no matter how much they yell at it, is not going to vanish.

It's just like the college commies.... ranting against their dads.... but knowing that each week, there will be money in the ATM, regardless of what they say.

It's childish and stupid.... but still millions of college kids succumb to this thinking each year. Apparently, as they get older and more "mature", they find a new villain to blame for their insecurities and use to shore up their own misplaced sense of "independence" and "accomplishment."

===gobot:"A protest against the very idea of government.=========

A vote for a former Army Lawyer, a long time state senator, and a US Congressman for the past 8 years is a vote against the very idea of government.....why?
+++++++++++++

===gobot:"Which is ironic, because all these politicians that are blocking common sense health care reform on the grounds that it is doomed to fail are recipients of government health care. "
===

Well, kind of. But that's like saying they are on welfare because they get their money from the government.
Also, it isn't "common sense" health care reform, and no House Republican is blocking it.

I don't like voting for Democrats, but when the GOP increasingly put up protest candidates whose views are informed by rage.
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Did you vote for McCain? Did you vote for him in the primaries?

A protest against the very idea of government.

Which is ironic, because all these politicians that are blocking common sense health care reform on the grounds that it is doomed to fail are recipients of government health care.

There ought to be room within the Republican Party for significant health care reform... at least along the lines of what they have in Switzerland.... totally private, but well-regulated. But the GOP won't even support that.