We need to stop speaking of gays as if they were a race. These are men and women who choose to do what they are doing I have grown sick of hearing about gays. They have the same power of vote as any one else. Dont forget that these are people that were born men and women.

Yes, I am a gay man. And, yes, I was born a man. Beyond that, your point would be?

If you are implying my life and the lives of my partner and I as a couple are "just like" anyone else's, you are clearly deluding yourself. Ironically for all the "conservatives" out there, gays are one of the few groups in this country that actually do have to make it on our own without support or recognition from the government. We have to be libertarian because we know we can absolutely never count on our nation to recognize our value or support our relationships in any fashion. Whatever we have can be taken away - we have learned (and re-learned) that our entire lives.

I an not naive - I recognize every individual and every family has tremendous challenges (and hopefully joy as well). But in a society filled with people openly hostile to my very existence, I know I see the world very differently. My military experience and my civilian experience has been completely different than a similar age and background heterosexual male would have experienced.

The only choice I made was to be true to myelf and refuse to live in a pathetic closet.

Have you ever had to watch a news conference in which the president basically refuses to acknowledge your existence while he calls for a constitutional amendment to enshrine your second-class citizenry forever? The verbal gyrations in creating a speech condemning part of the population to second-class citizenry without ever mentioning them by name must have been daunting. But my partner and I sat in front of the TV and received the message loud and clear - "Your contributions to society are worthless, and your aspirations are too; now let's that state that permanently."

The article is correct that homosexuals are not monolthically in synch on every issue (thank goodness), but I can assure you every homosexual in our country has experienced that "kicked in the stomach feeling"
many times, and that shared experience does shape our view of our nation and the world.

As a member of a majority population, it must be really nice to use throw away lines like "everyone has a vote." You might not be aware that our nation was also founded upon a belief in the rights of the individual, something the masses appear to have forgotten. And that is sad because failing to acknowledge the value of each individual weakens our nation as a whole and divides us all.

As angry as I am sometimes, I wish you only well.

Politics is a life choice, homosexuality is a life choice. The Armed Services are a life choice, homosexuality is a life choice. Being Black or Asian or Latin is not a life choice, homosexuality is a life choice.
Oh, I remember when gay was a word everyone in the world could be at some time but homosexual men thought it was a good word for them.

When is the last time anyone can remember, "All Men are Created Equal." If its not one thing, its another. First, its women's rights. Then, the Black-Rights movement. Now, the Gay Power issue.

As Anthony stated, "We need to stop speaking of gays as if they were a [seperate] race."

To say that being gay is a choice, or that gays are not a minority is ignorant. To say that you don't want to hear anymore about them is ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as anyone in the LGBT community voting republican in this election. As the newer generations come of age and come to power, the equal rights movement grows. This is simply another example.

For too long, Americans with the stagnant Puritan Ethics have denied the divorce statistics that 70 percent of marriages end in divorce. Recently I heard on the major network a woman say that monogomy is a fantasy. That is one person who realizes that personal experience contradicts the Puritan Fantasy about men & women are destined for marriage. If monogomy is the natural inclination, why did Jesus have to create marriage as a sacrament? He did so in order to create yet another Thou Shall Not. And yet the savior of mankind refused marriage for himself (I know this contradicts the Divinci Code).
No wonder other lifestyles have come into existence.
Adam.

"Chose to do what their doing?" The same way you "chose" to be heterosexual? Get a clue.

It's not a choice Anthony -

Ask yourself, when did you make the choice to be hetrosexual?

Why would anyone choose to be homosexual when they might be beaten up for it, loose their job over it, possibly be killed for it and not be allowed to marry the one they love?

And what in the world is that supposed to mean "Dont forget that these are people that were born men and women" ?

Ralph, while you may have "chosen" to ignore your homosexual desires and live a heterosexual lifestyle, most people would consider that choice to be a dishonest and dysfunctional one (including your unfortunate wife). A large percentage of gay people try to "choose" the opposite sex, myself included, but sexual attraction is not that simple. (You can test that theory out by trying to be sexually attracted to G.W. Bush, let us know if you do change orientation, even temporarily)

You did leave one thing out of your litany of life choices. Religion is a choice. Perhaps freedom of religion is no longer necessary or desirable? Perhaps that would be a great first step to winning the war on terror. It's better than giving up our other freedoms.

"Being Black or Asian or Latin is not a life choice, homosexuality is a life choice."

-So when they come out with a pill that makes everyone white, do you suggest we strip black people of their rights again, because now they have a CHOICE?

tired of hearing about us gays and lesbians? stop trying to oppress and condemn us, accept us as a fact of life and we can all move on. fight us and we'll be screaming INJUSTICE! for the next thousand years.

to Mr. Henson:
I am gay. I did not choose it. it is NOT a life choice. Using drugs, or being promiscuous is a life choice. Having children is a life choice. Being gay is not a choice. Why would I want to subject myself to the ignorance and bigotry of people like you? I don't choose this. I've been gay since as far back as I've known. If it's a choice, then WHEN did you make the CHOICE to be hetero? ... assuming you are

John -
What an astute post!

Anthony, Ralph and Jay -
Or should I address you as Moe, Larry and Curly? Gays and Lesbians are, by definition a MINORITY. We are also the LAST MINORITY it's still "OK" to discriminate against in housing, medical care, employment and marriage. Your posts are blatant evidence of this prejudice and discrimination.

And another thing, my 15+ year relationship has lasted longer that ALL of the 'marriages' of my thrice-divorced straight brother.

Gay and Lesbian people ARE becoming more visible and we WILL be a force to be considered during the elections next month and in 2008.

Why don't you three go back to poking each other in the eye and stop talking about things and people you don't and will never understand?

Sorry, John. Can't be as magnanimous as you w/these people.

Question: who in their right mind would choose to be part of a demographic that, at the end of the day, gets kicked around and treated like second-class citizenry? Homosexuals don't "choose" their sexuality, just the same way that Martin Luther King didn't "choose" to be black in the sixties. If you placed a tax on being of a minority the way the US places a tax on homosexuality, there would be public outcry to the highest hills.

I hate to say this, but most of my gay friends don't vote (even when a marriage amendement was put up for a vote).
They saw the polls against them and decided the margins were to wide for their one vote to make a difference. Yet, there they were complaining about the results. When I reminded one of them he didn't vote, he said, what's the point?
I am very liberal and voted against the gay marriage ban here in Texas. It was kind of sad that the people it was really affecting were at happy hour on election day. I'm not saying that gays don't vote, but based on my experience, many don't. Unfortunately or forutnately- depending on your view, voter apathy seems to be more rampant among the L&G community than it does with those that oppose them.

Hear hear Layne. My thrice-married brother also lags way behind my 26 years of life with my partner.

I always find it interesting that heteros can loudly declare that being gay is a choice, something really only a gay person can possibly know. But we have all seen how powerful the closet can be in validating bigotry.

Hang in there my gay brethren. We shall overcome.

TO everybody, i don't care if you are strait, bi, or full on homosexual! I am a full blown lesbian and i am DAMNED PROUD of being who i am. i have no problems with myself and i have no reason to want to change. I have always been attracted to women since in ELEMENTARY SCHOOL. now come on, what kind of elementary kid CHOOSES to be gay? you don't have the choice, and even if i did, i would choose the homosexual path because i love my girlfriend with everything that i have and wouldn't give that love up for anything!! Nor, would we give up the 2 beautiful children that we are raising. so to all us MINORITY, I LOVE YA'LL, AND REMEMBER, BE PROUD CAUSE ITS WHO YOU ARE!!! To hell with anybody who has a problem with that

The United States needs to look at its norther border and take some notes.

I am a native New Yorker who married my partner (who is Canadian a year ago) and have immigrated to Toronto.

The truth is people in the LGTB community do not have rights, or should I say--real EQUAL rights in the US. Gay marriage is legal in Canada and we are PROTECTED and represented equally here.

70% of Canadians approve of same-sex marriage. Often I hear Canadians say "what is wrong with the US, what is the big deal?"
Look at Canada folks....
The land of real equality and freedom.

Greg, Michael Jackson already has that pill to make a person white and he made that choice...along with a host of other bad choices. The struggle for civil rights of any minority group, social or ethnic, ought not be compared to or even spoken within the same sentence as the struggle that blacks have had to endure with the exception of Native Americans. To put this in perspective; blacks were kidnapped, enslaved, sold, beaten, raped, lynched, made to labor for over 400 years and received centuries of humiliation and discrimination for compensation. I can go on but I'm sure most of you reading this are intelligent enough to get the point. Before you think of making this comparison again it would be appreciated if you would ask yourself if a country, state, county, municipality, development, block, street, or household has made a cent at the expense of one homosexual's dehumanizing slave labor and exploitation. Have we found scientific proof that homosexuality is not a lifestyle choice yet? John, you need a hug!!!

Hi Mike @ 7:13:40 PM:

In your research, could you also find out if we have scientific proof that heterosexuality is not a lifestyle choice?

People can make the comparison to blacks, Native Americans, and any other group all they want. No one group has a monopoly on experiencing discrimination. Are you somehow better or more human than gays? Though what you described sounds terrible and I'm glad we are well beyond that time, only GLBT people know what it is like to be discriminated as a GLBT person in 2006. The sting of discrimination and disparities between people are relative to the time in which they take place. This makes it all that much more significant that it's happening today when much of it has subsided for other minorities.

What's a black gay man to do? Does your post make him feel better? Is one type of discrimination better than the other for him?

It's our humanity that creates equity between us first. I think all disparate groups can walk away from discrimination and forward together with their unique, and at times intersecting, histories intact.

Why do we, straight folks, have to decide what's best for gays and lesbians? My wife and I have lived next door to a gay couple for the last 4 years. There's nothing to fear folks! Homosexuality is not contagious. Beyond sexual preference, our gay neighbors are just like us - hard working men and women who deserve to be treated and accorded with respect, dignity and the same rights as you and me.

What is it with you morons that believe that we gays chose to be gay? Are you stupid or just plain ignorant? WHY would anyone chose to be discriminated by the likes of you all their lives, live a second class status in their own country and be treated different by the law, just so we can chose to have sex with our own gender. WHY? I'm tired of you morons repeating over and over this same stale old chestnut.....get a life!

I'm heterosexual. The thought of having sex with another man is physically repulsive to me. But I care deeply about my fellow humans.

I'm married to a woman, and that's my life - it's how I live.

But I agree with the people who founded this country in that all of it's citizens are created equally - and to deny specific rights to any group of human beings in this country is anti-American.

I wish ignorant, hateful, un-informed people had no rights to vote.

I remember when racism was so bad in the south that firehoses and police dogs were used to squash people marching for equal rights.

What this country needs - what we all need - is a good, old fashioned civil rights lesson. Where is the Martin Luther King of the gay and lesbian community...

If not, what's next?

I'm sure Hitler would know.

As a gay man--and yes one in a 23 year relationship with my partner-- I would not hold my breath waiting for gay people to have an effect on an election. Sad but true that we do not all agree on what is best for gay people and the country. And frankly, I have come to understand where some of my Republican friends are coming from. The Republican party is filled with hypocrites --many of them gay in the upper reaches--that pander to the religious fascist wing of their party. And the Democrats --well what have the Dem's given gay people? DOMA? Don't Ask-Don't Tell? My gay friends tell me the Republicans just 'use the gay issue to get elected'. They don't really believe what they are saying. And they have not really done anything against gay people. Heck, W even believes in civil unions (LOL...)

But at some point the gas runs out on the tired argument for a constitutional amendment against marriage. (That doesn't mean gay people get marriage. It just means it is no longer a benefit to politicos to use it as a wedge issue). When the Republicans control the WH, Senate and the House and do not pass it, that should be a clue to even the slowest minds. What you are seeing is the gauge near empty and the realization by voters that the country is messed up royally. Iraq, Afghanistan, N. Korea , Social Security and Medicare unfixed, out of control spending. And that's the short list of problems. But yet still of critical importance is keeping these gays from being able to form any type of recognized union so they can enjoy a few of the same benefits offered any two drunk straight people.

Well, I've known I was gay since at least around age 10, long before I knew there were any other gay people in the world, or that there was a word for it, or that there was anything one "did" as a gay person (indeed, at age 10, I only had a vague notion about how babies were made!).

But I knew I was "different". And I would spend the next 20 or so years of my life in a sometimes desperate effort to change what I was (all the while a "virgin", by the way).

I still have some of the therapy bills to prove it.

Nothing changed my sexual orientation. And if anyone ever wanted to change his sexual orientation, I did.

Doesn't really sound like a "choice", now does it?

What I eventually DID choose was to accept who and what I was. I am a good person, a moral person. And I am in a good, moral and loving committed relationship with someone whom I love and who loves me.

We all make choices in our lives.

I obviously didn't choose to be gay. I was there. I remember.

But I have chosen to live a full life with honesty and integrity and responsibility for my actions.

You want to blame me for that, go right ahead. Frankly, what you think of me is none of my business.

But as a full-fledged citizen of this great country, I expect my government to treat me fairly, and equitably under the law.

Until that happens, expect me and other gay people --and our friends and family--to speak up, loudly, for what is right.

All these posts bring up so many issues that our country has.

As a gay black man, it is fascinating to me how many "black" Americans feel that gays have somehow "hijacked" the civil rights movement. It is so indicative of the malaise that exists in the black community--as if the civil rights movement is the only thing black people in America have to be proud of, as if its the long thing black people ever did, and as if the principles laid out in that movement are applicable to only one group. It is interesting to me that people forget that Al Sharpton, Correta Scott King, and Jesse Jackson--all people that were actually THERE during the Civil Rights movement have actually spoken up in favor of gay marriage and ending all discrimination in general. When will the rest of America get a clue.

That being said, however, I am troubled by the idea of gay marriage. For so long I think the gay rights movement has been about trying to teach America that one can be outside of the status quo and still be an acceptable member of society. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, gay marriage WILL happen in America within the next 50 years. When it does, I think it will decimate the gay community in ways that would be seemingly attractive to conservatives. There will be the "good" gays--the ones that are more like straight people, the ones with 2.4 kids and a house with a white picket fence--and the "bad" gays--you know, the ones who "use drugs and are promiscuous and etc., etc.," (As a sidenote--does any of this sound familiar to anyone--you know, the lighter skin blacks that tried to pass for white in the days right after the war, and left their "bad" dark skinned black brethren to fend for themselves).

At the end of the day, the fight for gay marriage is not a liberal one but rather a conservative one. When it is successful (and again, lets be honest, it will be), it will forever enshrine the idea that the thought of a life without a life long partner and children is an unacceptable one and will castigate an entirely new class of people--gay, straight, and otherwise--who chose to validate alternative families and lifestyles different from those of the Cleavers--to second class citizenship.

The reason marriage equality is so important to gays is because so many other rights are tied in to marriage. Once we have the equal right to marry the person of our choice, all the many laws that relate to marriage will apply to us as well.

Gay or not, some people will choose marriage for themselves and others will not. The majority of adults do get married. As tough as monogamy is, it's natural for humans to want to make that commitment when you love someone so much that you can see yourselves as old people together. It's about companionship and mutual support as much as it is about intimacy. If you as a gay person do decide to say I do, you will simply have access to the same benefits as every other adult citizen in the country who also chooses marriage.

The way it is right now, criminals in prison can get married and at state expense, but gays are barred. My partner and I are businesswoman and employers, good neighbors and well-known in our community for all the volunteer work we've done, but some guy who might have murdered a child is considered worthy of equal marriage rights. But right now, under many state and all federal laws, somebody like me is considered less worthy than anyone in prison. So we contend not only with that, and with the ignorant and cruel who compare gays to dogs and perverts, but also, it costs us money out of pocket in higher taxes and legal expenses to figure out how to protect ourselves and our assets. This is a given if you are a citizen who is not gay and has the right to marry. Even though we are domestic partners and our business is just a regular small business with less than 20 employees, we are basically being taxed and penalized based on that one fact about ourselves.

Why does our nation support what is essentially a civil contract between two people? Stability. Married couples work together to build wealth and create stability and a support system for themselves and their kids, if they have kids. Marriage clearly contributes to economic and social stability. People who are married also report higher levels of contentment and happiness, and studies show their health is better over time.

So marriage rights for all our citizens is not only good for the married citizens, but for our communities and our country as well.

All this talk of whether or not being gay is a choice is completely irrelevant and puts us (gay people) on the defensive. Why even bother to acknowledge the question? Why do we feel we need to justify our relationships by saying that our orientation is something completely out of our control. For the sake of argument, let's say that it IS a choice. We just chose something different. The only folks that it really matters to are those that are afraid of something/someone other than themselves.

Boy am I in the wrong place.

(Vote Robot)

Terre's comments are spot on. In all the arguments about gay marriage, I've never clearly heard exactly what bad things will happen when gay people are permitted to marry. OK, so it might rain fire and brimstone and the earth might split in two, but besides those minor troubles, what is the concern?

As Terre points out, there are lots of good arguments for supporting gay marriage... stability, economic growth, etc. Good conservative arguments. The arguments against it are, as far as I can tell (and like all arguments against equal rights for all), irrational and fear-based.

So come on Bible thumpers, tell me what you're afraid of. What bad stuff will happen if gays are permitted to marry?

I know most of these comments were posted a long time ago, but I felt compelled to put my two cents in here.

I am a straight guy. I have never had sex with another guy. I can also say with complete truthfulness that being gay is NOT a choice. For all those nay sayers out there, please bear with me, and try to follow me here.

Ok - I am assuming that you are a straight male - much as I am. I want you to picture in your mind gently holding another guy. Caress him. Touch him, kiss him. Now, make mad passionate love to him.

So, if that little blurb got your engine going - and once again, assuming you are a straight male - you are gay. If it did NOT get you going, you are straight. Also, if it DIDN'T get you going, chances are, no matter of attempting to FORCE yourself to enjoy that will work.

So, in conclusion, please don't insist that gay is a choice, until you can look me in the eye, and tell me that YOU chose to be gay for an hour with some Jim Dandy.

Out.