Once again, the unions don't get what they want and start blaming everyone for their failures. How sad. Everyone is to blame but themselves. It's the same old bunch of union cry babies.

i concur, the firefighter union, had a testy relationship with rudy giuliani during his course as a mayor as giuliani sought to slash spending and get the city into a surplus, the union is purely doing this on political grounds as it aligns itself with democrats like john kerry who are more favorable towards unions, the whole job of a union is to get as many pay raises, pensions, benefits as possible, the goal of a myaor is to keep that in check, much like mayor bloomberg is doing right now with the police ,fire depts, and the teachers union

As I recall, this country was built on so called "union cry babies". I'm proud to live in a country with strong unions.

Andy, you said EXACTLY what I was going to say...

The same Firefighter's Union who endorsed whom in 2004???? Let me see... Can we say John Kerry?
Puleeeze! The firefighter's Union is a joke and their leader an even bigger joke! The firefighter's who fight fires and save lives daily are the heroes. The Unions are nothing but greedy guses. That video won't mean a thing. Rudy already has firefighters in other cities and states endorsing him. Too bad the firefighter's union has to be so scared of Rudy that they have to try to derail his campaign. COWARDS! I bet you dollars to donuts they will endorse Hillary when its all over! nuff said!

I'm with you guys about unions being political pawns, don't get me wrong, they did amazing things for the american worker in the past, but I feel that their usefulness is pretty limited in today's gloabal economy. But you have to admit that Guiliani screwed the pooch on the run up to 9/11 in terms of preparing NYC for disasters.

He is a pretty corrupt and ineffective leader, he's be a disastrous president.

These comments are hate filled and utterly wrong. I am an independent who voted for Bush the first time and I can tell you right now that the comments you are making now will only further discourage me from considering a republican again. Becuase the fire fighters and the union that represents them disagree with Guilliani you dare to call them cowards. These are the people you held up as hero's in Bushes 2004 re-election campaign, now they disagree with you and they are cowards. Maybe you should put more stock in the facts, Rudy lacked any real leadership during the short time he was mayor after 9/11 and even wanted to postpone the election of Bloomberg. He lacked any real leadership prior to 9/11 and only mentioned the first terrorist attack one time while he was mayor, when he was PRAISING Clinton's leadership after it. He did not take into account the considerations of the first reponders and when 9/11 happened things were worse becuase of his lack of leadership. That is cowardice!

Doggie: Did you seriously just call the firefighters cowards? Were you running into a collapsing building to save peopeles' lives on Sept 11? Was Guillani? Mind you, many many firefighters also died in 9/11. How can you call be patriotic while disrespecting those that died that day? DISGRACEFUL DOGGIE!

i agree, it is total political hackery, unions have testy relationships with people not willing to give into outlandish demands, when rudy giuliani came to office the city had a massive deficit, a huge welfare and social services system laden with corruption and inept bureaucracy, and a huge crime problem, he had the mahority democratic senate and city hall clamoring for massive tax hikes to supplant those services, in that enviroment not only did he resist the call for tax hikes he slashed taxes 23 times, reduced welfare 70 percent, reduced crime to such an extent it became the safest city in america, and was a tough negotiator with the various unions, refusing to give into their demands of huge pay raises which would have cost the taxpayers an inordinate amount of money, hence the animosity from the firefighter union, also, note that, as per one of their claims, had giulaini extended the rescue period of the remains which according to them was

"Giuliani's decision to abandon efforts to recover remains of dead firefighters as he sought a quick clean-up of Ground Zero."

there would be possibly tens of thousands more people sick right now from inhaling the toxic dust at ground zero because they wanted to extend the time looking for people, so it is a catch 22, he extends the search, more people sick today, he doesn't, there is the current outcry, you be the judge of what the right choice would have been

sorry about the gikem, typo, that was me golem with the post aboive, also nobody is denigrating the firefighters, i myself was a 9/11 volunteer and went to lower manhattan as a student when the buildings fell to help people, it was a chaotic scene and people did the best they could under those circumstances, 8/11 caught everybody of guard in terms of the scale of the situation, the cia,nsa,fbi and whatever other agency you can think of was caught off guard, the mayor of that city did the best he could under those circumstances

Unions are useless middlemen that cause to many problems. I'm a democrat but have to say I'm on the side of Giuliani on this one.

Guiliani a Hero, and firefighters are cowards? How ass backwards are you people? You probably all claim to be Christian too. Why are people so blind? Crime was heading south in NYC before Rudy went into office and his accomplishments are largely manipulated and blown out of proportion. How people can align themselves with him is a testament to how pathetic and lazy Americans are. Do some real research, look up the facts.

Let's be incredibly clear on WHO the cowards are...they are the union hacks that have been backing Democratic candidates for years....they are NOT the firefighters themselves.

There is a MASSIVE difference.

Union = political opportunists

Firefighters = heroes

What a sad day it is when you read someone calling firefighters cowards - my goodness - many of those firefighters that died and are sick today from saving the lives of others are/were union members. Guliani - what did he really do to be the hero of 911? Why even use that to try to get votes - using others misfortunes - to me it is in bad taste. It is neither a republican nor democrat issue it is a reality issue. jeb

Too many union leaders--as opposed to the rank and file members--have become political hacks and mere campaign workers of the DNC. Why do you think Hoffa and the Teamsters left the AFL-CIO? They wanted a union which focuses mostly on what unions should do: collective bargaining to protect workers.

People need to make a separate distinction between the IAFF and the firefighters they profess to serve. I spent a 30 year career as a firefighter in SoCal and I can tell you from first hand experience that the IAFF represents the "union" and not the individual firefighter. It's all about power and money folks. Nothing more, nothing less. Too often I saw the IAFF support political candidates and initiatives that the individual firefighter would go into the voting booth and vote against. The IAFF is as out of touch with the "rubber meets the road" firefighter as our elected politicians are with mainstreet America. The IAFF may lend their name, but they will not bring the whole of their membership to their pandering overlords.

Is there not middle ground that can be obtained for intellectual discussion of the issues rather than crude name calling?

Wow. Just wow.

We went from the people that had first contact with all the insanity that followed 911 being awesome and the heroes of our day..

to them being all manner of bad things because they're going to slam a guy who didn't find it particularly important to pick up the dead.

I have yet to see 1 person call a "Firefighter" a coward in this thread... yet people keep saying they are... Can you people read???? They are calling the union leaders cowards, not the firefighters!!! Either you people are too dumb to tell the difference, or have selective reading skills. Either way, I feel bad for you.

i guess i dont' understand how there can even be a discussion on this, let alone how ANYONE in this country can EVEN CONSIDER voting Republican.

who can possibly defend voting for busn in 2000 or 2004, let alone supporting giuliani or any of the other people running on the GOP ticket?

Its about time. No one in NY liked Guiliani before or after 9/11.. He's gotten rich off of it which is pathetic. He's a joke anyways along with the other hacks. The only ones worth a crap is Ron Paul or Mike Gravel.

Similar liberal logic at play:
Opposition to affirmative action makes one anti-black.
Opposition to illegal immigrant amnesty makes one anti-hispanic.
Opposition to violent jihadis makes one anti-Muslim.

This is not about getting a democrat elected. This is about the TRUTH. Wake up America. Outside of America this country is the biggest cry baby.

Let's look at the facts. Rudy was a media darling. Born and raised in NY, he was NOT a hero. I am a conservative republican. He used 9/11 to his advantage while the remains of the victims were dumped and sent off to China! Research the facts. It's not about left or right!!

Oh, don't forget. Rudy said he was told to evacute because the buildings were going to collapse. WHY DIDN'T HE TELL THE NYPD AND FDNY??

Please tell us exactly what Rudy did except get out and walk around and perform for the cameras. That's it.

"i agree, it is total political hackery, unions have testy relationships with people not willing to give into outlandish demands"

A 5 day work week, health insurance, paid holidays & vacations, retirement benefits, safe working condictions, workers compensation for OTJIs, a liveable wage, & good faith collective bargaining.

YUP THESE ARE OUTLANDISH!!!!

Yet everyone posting on this site directly benefits from the scarfice made by brave Union Brothers/Sisters from the past.

The reason the middle class of this country is going down the toilet is directly related to the decline of the Union movement in this country.

If you anti-Union & don't make $250,000 a year your just a slave to the man/woman. Class warfare??? YOU BETTCHA!!!!!

Firefighters and the union are the same. We vote for the leadership and they take our issues and run with them. Those issues aren't pulled out of thin air, but issues that concern us. If we don't like the leadership we vote them out. When you call the union cowards, you are indirectly calling the firefighters cowards. It's about Rudy's run for the White House that concerns us and using 9/11 to his advantage.

Well, regardless of the facts, if it's a group bashing a Republican, they can always count on reliable ABC to carry their water. Good PR announcement, I would say. You're almost as good as NPR for advertising upcoming left wing advocacy.

I support the firefighters union, and I believe that our firefighters truly are heroes.

Giuliani should not have used the NY firefighters or the 9/11 tragedy for crass politicall gain. It was crass and it backfired on him.

When some of you people attack the firefighters union you are personally attacking the firefighter as they ARE the union. Firefighters are expected to save your butt during a fire or other emergency but are expected to risk life and limb for no pay or benefits according to some of you. Maybe before the next rescue we should ask first what your feelings are towards our union?? The reason why the firefighters union leans towards democrats versus republicans is because republican politicians seem to lean towards the group that dislike unions and paying firefighters for their services.

So as firefighters you guys had a vote on how you feel about Guiliani??? If this is the case, then I will be the first one to step forward and apologize!! We all know this is not the case (although I am certain that someone will try and say it is) The union has its own agenda, and I am sure most of those are for the good of firefighters. I just don't believe for a second that this issue is one fo those

"As I recall, this country was built on so called "union cry babies". I'm proud to live in a country with strong unions.

Posted by: Jennifer | Jul 10, 2007 4:39:02 PM"

You're a moron, Jennifer. The United States was built by freedom loving capitalist who believe in property rights and less government interference.

You should pick up a history book before trying to pretend it was unions that "built on" unions.

Unions have had their place. I've been a member of two unions. But America was "built on" unions?

Ignorant.

Giuliani is a one trick pony; he is finished in the 2009 elections.

You're the moron Christoph! I won't even bother explaining the historical relationship between capital and labor because your belief that "the United States was built by freedom loving capitalists who believe in property rights and less goevernment interference" is facile and pathetic.

"the United States was built by freedom loving capitalists who believe in property rights and less goevernment interference" Is an oxymoran.

Republicans and conservatives are destroying the foundation that our beloved country stands on (and that hundreds of thousands of our uniformed men and women, and union member firefirefighters, are defending): Talk about ignorant- half of the population voted for Bush and his cronies who care nothing about anything other than making money for corporations- flag, freedom, christianity? Wake up you ignorant red-state voters- it's all a sham!

Those of us who live in NYC were here during 9-11, and we're still living in the bulls-eye- we bear the consequences of Bush/GOP's terrorist-expanding policies, not you out in the union-hating, gay-bashing, intolerant, constitution trampling red states.

At one time the unions were needed,today they have become lazy greed driven bunch of people on high class welfare. Look at the auto industry,the teacher unions. If you think that unions are worth supporting I hope you can afford the things that make. I have worked for the teamsters and the afl unions. It is easier to book a flight to the moon than fire a lazy worker under the unions.

Capitalists without organized labor = robber barons

Unions without capitalists = communism

To say, as many in this thread have, that unions are utterly worthless and wrong-headed, is simply to ignore history. It is an incontrovertible truth that many benefits we in the 21st century take for granted are the direct result of union activism in the 20th. There has to be both tension and responsible dialogue between unions and management, between Democrats and Republicans, between liberals and conservatives, in order for democracy to exist.

As to Giuliani, the facts about 9/11 do not paint him in nearly the rosy light he likes to pretend. Yes, he appeared resolute and calm in a crisis on TV that day. But the charges about the location of the emergency response center are absolutely spot-on. Giuliani has the gall to talk about the Democrats not recognizing the WTC as a target after the 1993 bombing, but he put the emergency center there, over the strong objections of his own staff, who pointed out (presciently) that Brooklyn would be a much more sensible location. Giuliani also ignored the issue of the radios. The NYPD and the FDNY couldn't -- and in fact still can't -- talk to each other on their radios. There's just no excuse for that kind of abject negligence. It isn't just the union that opposes him, it's the rank-and-file FDNY firefighters, too, because in times of crisis he did not have their back.

The reality is, Rudy Giuliani wasn't a great leader on 9/11; he just played one on TV.

dear friends ; i must remind everyone out there that steve cassidy of the nyfd union endorsed president george bush not john kerry, as stated the endorsement came in new york city on queens blvd. the day the republican convention in the summer of 2003. this should sharpen the debate, everyone should check the record before making ugly statements about unions and john kerry.

I am glad to hear that the firefighters and others are disputing Giuliani's role as a hero of 9/11. It was great on 9/11 to see someone take the lead in terms of talking to the public. The coward otherwise known as Bush was playing "whack-a-mole" with the press and showed no leadership or real presence on 9/11. In terms of being an appreciated voice of authority on 9/11, I am in agreement about Giuliani's role. However, in terms of being a hero, others really fill that role.

since we are playing the hero game lets look no further than Father Mychal Judge as the real hero on9/11 it was he who stated i will give the last rights as chaplain of the nyfd, this is sad because mayor rudy, safir and someone named kerik the nypd police comm. all headed north but father judge headed in to give the last rights to his men most new yorkers with any sense will tell you father Mychal is the real hero with the nyfd and police on that tragdic day good bless these men how politics gets into this is beyond logic

If Rudy was so heroic, more New Yorkers would support him. Essentially, they're grateful that he appeared on TV on 9/11 while Bush was hiding. Giuliani's stature as a "hero" is simply a commentary on how feckless Bush was. Upon closer inspection, New Yorkers realize Giuliani PLACED the EMERGENCY COMMAND CENTER where the first attack on the WTC occurred in 1993. That's unforgiveable. And the rest of the country will come around to see him as the depraved opportunist he is.

hmm... i dont think it's rudy giuliani's fault, or certain people's fault... i think it's the carelessness of the government itself... from what i heard, the government knew that there would be a terrorist attack and yet, they just overlooked the warning, thinking that no such thing would happen... so, if we REALLY have to blame someone, i guess it would be the carelessness of the government... however, the damage has already been made, so blaming others, such as rudy giuliani or even the government, won't do us any good, except making us more frustrated and angry at the government, dont you think? hopefully, the government has learned its lesson to take all the warnings seriously and there would be no more terrorist attacks...

Typical union whinning. Never pass up a chance to jump on a Republican. The Firefighters Union like all unions need to take thier place on the trash heap of of freeloaders and hopefully just fade away and give us all a break.

Guiliani is a phoney. A big fat phoney. He thinks we don't know but we do.

Guiliani is worse than a phoeny. He was and is a real opportunist. He's about as competent to be president as John Gotti. He totally screwed up the aftermath and the years before 9/11. Open your eyes, do some research and look into these canidates. Holy Moly

Gotta love how a union is going out of its way to try and smear Rudy or basically any Republican. Also a "True Shocker" that ABC would actually run this piece of crap article. Rudy isn't who I would vote for but also am not gonna pay any attention to this crap from a bitter union or a slanted news organization as ABC has been and continues to be.

I think many people are missing the facts.

After the first WTC bombing, Rudy was advised, to move his HQ elsewhere. He did not.

This greatly hindered his ability to manage things after the attacks.

He was advised to get them equiped with better radios. He did not. Fire Fighters died because, no one could tell those inside and high up to get out when they knew they were going to collapse.

What was the rush to clean up the bodies and throw them in the dump for? It's not even like anything was rebuilt there. How many of you would feel good about someone ordering the body of your spouse, parent or child, to be thrown in the city dump with the rest of the trash.

These do not sound like typical union squabbles to me.

Rudy needs to take accountability for his carelessness with HQ placement, the radios and gross insensitivties.

Lincoln Madison | Jul 10, 2007 8:04:57 PM nails this quite well.

Unions, like every human institution from religion to corporations and government, have their good works and bad deeds. Reflecting the best and worst of the people who run them.

Many firefighters have been crying foul about the 9/11 radio problems, investigation and other issues since at least 2/02 when The Journal of Fire Engineering had an editorial alledging "the official investigations blessed by FEMA and run by the ASCE is a half-baked farce..." Why? Because fire engineers are quite familiar with investigations of fire damaged buildings. The necessary collection of evidence and data to determine what might be done to save firefighters in other burning buildings was not done.

The radio issue has been discussed at length in a book by two NYPD firefighters who were at the center of the problem for years leading up to 9/11.
"Radio Silence FDNY: The Betrayal of New York's Bravest" by John Joyce and Bill Bowen

As an RN familiar with environmental risks to health, the apparent cover up by NYC (Guilliani), the EPA and other government agencies, on the toxicity of the dust and withholding warnings as to proper respiratory protective gear and precautions in handling the dust is potentially criminal. These people are dying and suffering with far too little assistance and adequate medical care.

The firefighters have many reasons to challenge Guilliani and ABC is doing it's job in reporting their concerns.

If Ann Coulter and her ilk can have repeated air time on FOX and MSNBC to make the most ludicrous, unsubstantiated and slanderous allegations, I cannot find a reason to condemn ABC for giving the firefighters less than 15 minutes of air time to explain their grievances.

WOW...there sure is alot of people on here with a mouth on both sides of their face and some who cannot understand what they are reading. It is not only the "Union Leaders" exposing Rudy's shortcomings, but also the Deputy Chief in the NYFD. It's not political all around (except on Rudy's end), it's common sense..which is very clear that Giuliani supporters have none

Wow, have to admit that I am Impressed at ABC to print an article on the truly negative of a Republican Canidate that might actually have a chance to win. Waiting for ABC to print any article about a Democrat truly negative to their chances to win. See a few Articles with mild scoldings to Dems, but have yet to see any Article on why I shouldn't vote for Clinton, Obama, or others. Might see someting indicating that maybe they did something wrong but by no fault of their own, but man when there is a Republican to be taken down, they find any Crap they can to publish. I basically look at ABC as a barometer, when they publish stuff truly negative about someone, I start looking hard at that person because they very well might be the best person to vote for/support. ABC is not someone to get your news from and believe everything they report, they have a tendency to pick and choose to their agenda.

Didn't ABC repeatedly show ads from the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth against John Kerry? Tell me, Boorad, did that sway you to vote for John Kerry?

As a New Yorker I am glad this is all coming out. I have always wondered why the big rush to stop looking for remains when this was the biggest crime scene in our country's history. Even lately they have found remains in a road, on rooftops etc. I will never forget that day when Guliani had the cops arrest the distraught firefighters. It was awful.

The firefighters offer facts; their opponents respond by attacking their motives. The usual pattern.

Yep, Rudy Guiliani has been using the devastation of 911 to get votes - he is no hero. Take it from me, a republican and a husband who lost his wife on 9/11.

Read the comments from the people who were there. The idiotic, blindly anti-labor fools who buy the Rudy spin are foolish dupes.

We need more unions today, and fewer multinational corporations who owe allegiance to no people or nation.

We've already seen the erosion in wages, hours, working conditions, pensions, health insurance, and other benefits won by unions over the decades. Time for a resurgence of labor, unless we all want to end up peddling Chinese poison for Walmart.

And how about a resurgence of democracy, where voters elect representatives who are responsible to the people's wishes, not beholden whores who do the bidding of their corporate paymasters instead of what they know is right.

Wake up, out there!

For the record, the Uniformed Firefighter's Association of New York, which backed Bush in '04, also leveled the same criticisms at Giuliani. This isn't a partisan indictment, it's a serious allegation backed by solid evidence. No man or woman who makes these kinds of mistakes ought to have power.