Live-Blogging from Democratic Debate by Rick Klein

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Live-Blogging from Democratic Debate by Rick Klein

January 21, 2008 4:27 PM

10:08 pm: SO -- now that was entertaining. Fascinating that the debate in Nevada could be so dull and this one was so interesting. Obviously, it speaks to the importance of South Carolina for all of them -- but it also speaks to the raw nerves and high stakes of this campaign. There were plenty of things that could change the narrative this evening, including the aggressive Obama, equally aggressive Clinton, and an Edwards who was as willing to take on Obama as he was Clinton.

Mostly though we saw very different arguments (made mostly eloquently) from the candidates: Clinton showed herself as tested and experienced, Obama as fresh and ready to remake politics, and Edwards was the fighter -- not giving up on this race, not by a longshot (which, sorry to say, he is).

That's it for tonight, guys. I'll post a wrap a little bit later tonight to the Political Radar at ABCNews.com. Thank YOU all for your kind words below (and even the unkind ones). As always, it's been a pleasure (even though it sounds like I missed a heck of a Georgetown-Syracuse basketball game). And read The Note tomorrow for more.

9:59 pm: A friend suggests a novel debate winner: John McCain.

9:59 pm: This Obama closing line is strong, too: "We've got to overcome the politics of fear in this country."

9:56 pm: Clearly the Edwards folks think that this McCain's strong on campaign-finance reform storyline sells for him. I'm not sure that's what makes McCain a potential force in a general election.

9:55 pm: Clinton summarizes her rationale, again, and well: "I've been there, I've done that. They've been after me for 16 years, and much to their dismay, I'm still here."

9:52 pm: Obama said that he's a "proud Christian." That was not an accident, and it was no mere description of his religious beliefs. He's pushing back like never before agianst those scurrilous Muslim rumors.

9:48 pm: This has been two debates, no question. They cleared the air early, with all the nasty and even personal stuff, and then they got to a version of substance -- good, clearly presented closing arguments. There are indeed choices in the Democratic race, and it's not about who "wins" such forums or hurls the funniest insults.

9:43 pm: Obama talks about how Democrats need to "redraw the political map." The good thing about them taking seats is that we're now hearing sober, rational discussions of why the contenders are actually running for president.

9:41 pm: "This campaign is not about our spouses," Clinton said. (Keep in mind that Bill Clinton is essentially moving to South Carolina this week, while Hillary Clinton heads to Feb. 5 states.)

9:39 pm: It's interesting to me that, as the debate nears its end, Sen. Clinton is rolling out her big-tent Democrats-rock lines again. Almost like a reward for viewers who have stuck with the whole debate -- the die-hard Democrats, seeing her the way she looked back at the early debates, where she could rise above the field.

9:31 pm: GREAT QUESTION from Joe Johns -- was Bill Clinton our first black president? Obama gave a really smart answer -- leavened with some humor ("Bill's dancing abilities") -- offering just enough praise for a popular ex-president. (Sen. Clinton: "I'm sure that can be arranged.")

9:28 pm: John Edwards mentions his fight with Bill O'Reilly, thereby guaranteeing mention by Bill O'Reilly's television program. A good feud for the candidate who loves to battle with Ann Coulter.

9:27 pm: "People want to move beyond our divisions," Obama said. It took almost 90 minutes for him to get to his core message. Though this was weird, wasn't it: Obama says we've got "an African-American, and a woman, and . . . John." How's that for divisions?

9:25 pm: A quick thought on format for the second half -- I think Clinton is probably the happiest to be seated. She's still a wonk at heart, and this is the way to get policy details across.

9:20 pm: ABC's Sunlen Miller offers this observation: "It's a good thing they put Obama in the middle, since he's taking it from both sides." Yes, literally.

9:19 pm: Sort of odd to see them in chairs now, after all that. I wish we could take blood-pressure readings right now.

9:10 pm: Now we discuss the issues? Even the audience had to laugh at that one. At the (rough) midway point: Obama came to play, but Clinton came to play pro ball. And so far, John Edwards is probably winning on points and tone -- taking Obama off his game, but pushing his message effectively even from the sidelines of the main event.

9:08 pm: Easiest word on voices/demeanor: Intense. It works for all three. Obama seems a bit angry when he's being attacked. John Edwards seems most comfortable on stage. Hillary Clinton looks like the pro she is -- coolly delivering the rejoinders she's prepared.

9:04 pm: This remains an odd argument, that Iraqis are responding to the Democratic presidential primary. Anyone seen any evidence of that, or is it just a hunch -- one that coincides with political necessities?

9 pm: On health care, Clinton: "I'm not running for president to put band-aids on our problems." Obama tries to turn down the heat on this discussion, but when it's two against one, it's hard to regain control. (And why can't Obama said "Massachusetts" when he lived there for three years?)

8:58 pm: This debate over healthcare -- wow, they have gone around and around and around on this subject. But Obama can never make the same claim, about universality, that Edwards and Clinton can. That was a choice. He can defend that choice, and he does so well. But it doesn't fit in a soundbite.

8:55 pm: How about this Edwards playbook? He is going Clinton's dirty work now, saying Obama's healthcare plan isn't universal. This is new in terms of strategy and messaging.

8:53 pm: OK, I can almost draw a breath again... We haven't seen anything like this -- in terms of intensity of the clashes, but also in the personal level of the attacks. Walmart and Rezko, oh my!

8:49 pm: This is knocking Obama off his game -- he's trying to get back into a groove, and honestly he's doing as well as can be expected. But this is some rough-and-tumble politics.

8:47 pm: So much for "pacts." Hillary Clinton is loving this exchange -- Edwards knows he needs a big showing in South Carolina, and he's taking it DIRECTLY at Obama on the "present" votes. "What if I had just not shown up to vote on things that are important to this country?" Edwards said. Obama is forced into the defensive.

8:46 pm: This is Obama's frustration: "I don't enjoy spending the week or two weeks or the past month answering criticisms that are not accurate." Strikes me as the type of answer that gets him sympathy among people who are already supporting him, but not necessarily something that convinces people to come to his side.

8:43 pm: Serious boos when Clinton says Obama won't take responsibility. The fact that she's going there tells me that she's far more serious about South Carolina than her campaign is letting on -- and that her campaign is very serious about sowing doubts about whether Obama can be trusted.

8:42 pm: Edwards just tweaked Obama -- that's a new dynamic.

8:41 pm: Clinton: "If we're going to be hurling these charges against each other, I'm used to [it.]" That may be the most direct insinuation we've heard from Clinton suggesting that Republicans would eat him alive.

8:40 pm: I can't believe Clinton is still saying that she is glad the bankruptcy bill she voted FOR did not become law. She said that at the last debate. Why is that a good answer?

8:39 pm: Obama tries to rise above: "We do need to trust our leaders and what they say." "Consistency matters. Truthfulness during campaigns makes a difference."

8:38 pm: Louise -- it's the advantage of the crowd, and that's an excellent point.

8:35 pm: David -- I'd just note, that CNN is sponsoring this debate, and they control all usage rights -- it is not ABC's debate. ABC gave a huge chunk of prime time TV to its debates two weekends ago, in New Hampshire -- and I'm proud to say that's far more than any other network. In the meantime, keep reading the blog.

8:34 pm: Edwards is talking race, discrimination, legacy of slavery... Edwards needs game-changers, and this dynamic, with all this fighting, keeps his window open just a sliver.

8:32 pm: A friend points out that I'm already eating my words from 7:57. Glad nobody took me up on that bet.

8:28 pm: Edwards wants in on this -- but Wolf is right to see this play out. "We're just getting warmed up," Clinton said. Obama: "I can't tell who I'm running against sometimes." Wow -- we are seeing IT ALL on the table. So much of the past six months or so have been building to this clash -- it isn't pretty, but it's good it came out. AND THEN HILLARY CLINTON MENTIONED "YOUR CONTRIBUTOR REZKO." What else you got, punk?

Edwards gets to take the high road -- "are there three people in this debate, not two?" "This kind of squabbling, how many children is this going to get health care." Edwards is LOVING this dynamic. "Lord knows you let them go on forever," he said.

8:26 pm: Now it's getting dirty -- it's all out there. Obama's getting heated here -- he's got to watch himself. But he's rightfully angry at how his words are being misconstrued. AND THIS -- "You were a corporate lawyer sitting on the board of Walmart." HELLO. Yowsers.

8:25 pm: And Clinton piles on on the war. "After having given that speech, by the next year, the speech was off your Website." With every word Sen. Obama is looking angrier and angrier.

8:24 pm: And Sen. Clinton isn't backing down -- keeping up on this claim (a real stretch) that Obama claims Republicans had all the good ideas. Pretty clearly not what he said -- and now I really want to see how Obama reacts -- he looks like he's steaming.

8:22 pm: Obama didn't need much baiting to take this on -- saying that Clinton is part of the "typical politics we've seen in Washington," by saying things that are "not factually accurate." He is going right after Sen. Clinton and President Clinton about things he says were misconstrued -- again, he is going here by choice, not by prodding. "That's the kind of campaign we should all try to run."

8:20 pm: Obama with the first line that assumes she wins -- "In a year's time, I'll be enforcing them."

8:16 pm: Interesting that we're getting another early mention of trade. I feel like we're back in Iowa.

8:14 pm: John Edwards comes out most forcefully against the president's stimulus package -- and it's what Dr. King would want, too. He goes after trade as well -- finding a distinction off the bat.

8:13 pm: ABC's Sunlen Miller: "Obama first to go on the offensive against another candidate - attacking Clinton for not having tax rebates in her economic stimulus plan from the start."

8:11 pm: Obama: "George Bush has made it worse." He mentions MLK and he gets applause with an anti-war line, then mentions South Carolina's "corridor of shame." It's a first answer that touches all the bases -- big sweep and gritty local politics.

8:09 pm: Sen. Clinton is happy the debate is starting with (and the campaign is turning on) the economy. She's comfortable talking with this stuff. And if her first response is an indication, she doesn't sound sick today. She does, however, look tan. AND she gets to be the first to mention MLK -- Obama follows immediately by talking about Dr. King.

8:04 pm: Why do the candidates always pretend to be surprised by the people they see in the hall? They know who's going to be there -- it's such a little sham.

8:01 pm: Judging from the applause -- this is an Obama crowd. Surprise.

7:57 pm: Just about game time -- remember, this is one of those three-person debates that are so promising in format. I'm betting against big fireworks, but I'm not a good better, just FYI.

7:45 pm: We were just told that there will be "no rules" for the second half of the debate. That means -- no lights, no time limits, and TOGA!

7:27: This is "America's beach playground," according to an early speaker who's getting the crowd going. All I know is it's freezing out -- so much for thawing out in the "first in the South" primary. Rep. James Clyburn, D-S.C., just admitted that his state failed us: "We promised you beach weather."

7:04 pm: Scott -- I do think you're on to something. There's a tremendous amount of spin that goes on surrounding the expectations game, and it will be part of the post-Florida spin now that only Obama had ads reach Florida eyeballs.

6:45 pm: Rob -- my point was questioning whether a national advertising campaign breaks a pledge not to campaign in individual states. If it does, the burden is placed on candidates to make sure their message does NOT reach people in certain states? I don't think that was the spirit of the pledge. Look -- surely the Obama campaign is glad to get its message out in Florida. But if they are spending money in Florida (even indirectly) it's wasted: Mark my words, the national media will ignore the Democratic results in Florida, since it's not a real contest. And this is a blip that doesn't seem likely to add up to anything significant.

6:17 pm ET: So the Clinton camp is blasting the Obama camp for what they say is breaking the candidates' pledge to not campaign in Florida, pledges issued because Florida broke the DNC's rules keeping the pre-2/5 window open. The culprit? A buy on national cable stations, which -- of course -- includes outlets like CNN, which -- of course -- has viewers in Florida. I don't know -- is this a terrible offense, to try to reach a national audience? This is not a targeted Florida-only ad. Seems like the Clinton campaign is eager to stir up some mischief.

5:24 pm ET: Word from the Clinton campaign is that their candidate is feeling under the weather -- a major cold. She was pretty bundled up on the platform at the MLK event in Columbia -- she was doing some serious shivering. We'll see what it means for tonight...

Rick Klein from ABC's The Note here, in Myrtle Beach, S.C. I'll be back online to blog during the debate, starting at 8 pm ET. In the meantime, with the backdrop of this Obama-Clintons (plural) spat, there's a lot of speculation about this being a far more aggressive debate than we've seen. Maybe -- but I wouldn't count on it. First off, this debate is sponsored by the Congressional Black Caucus, on MLK Day -- being too aggressive, in a battle with race as subtext, may be unseemly. And second, the Clinton campaign is sending signals that South Carolina isn't crucial to them; they've seen the polls, and Sen. Clinton is dropping in for the debate and then leaving South Carolina until mid-week. That doesn't suggest to me that Clinton wants or needs to mix it up tonight. And John Edwards is desperate to get back in the conversation -- but attack mode won't get him there.

The big question will be whether Obama jumps at opportunities to defend himself -- defense as offense.

In any event, be part of the conversation in the comments below, and check back early and often...

January 21, 2008 in Tancredo, Tom | Permalink | User Comments (131)

User Comments

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What Obama needs to say is this: "where is Bill? He's been speaking a great deal for you lately and I feel like I should be having this dabate with him".

"Would you like to take this time now
and go over my record Hillary so we can clear up any troubling details for you? Afterall, if we did it now, it would save you the trouble of later mis-quoting and/or purposefully mis-leading the Amer. people."

That is what he should say.

Posted by: Patrick | Jan 21, 2008 5:02:55 PM

I would ask Mrs. Clinton why Bill got so chummy with bush daddy 41 and then decides he should attack Obama for praising republicans. Looks like Bill was blowing kisses to daddy 41 to get a boat ride...Hillary...any response to that????? I would also ask if the sandy berger document destruction was actually to help bushbaby and nobody in the MAINSCREAM arena has thought of that yet???? Hillary...a reply please

Posted by: daddyblue | Jan 21, 2008 5:20:13 PM

If you throw a dog like Bill Clinton out into a crowd of 50 women, 48 will claw their way to be the woman who takes him home. Just watch the parade of women coming to defend the man. Bill has disrespected his wife, his family and his country and proved himself to be a liar and a cheat. Still women rally to defend him and Hillary for standing by her man. This whole rally proves to me, we as women do not qualify for the WH leadership role. Hillary has proven she will let a man crap all over her and still rally to defend him. This is a woman I do not want my grand daughter to "respect". To be worthy of a strong position, a woman was make strong choices. Allowing a man to disrespect you and coming back for more proves she is not a woman strong enough to make strong choices. If a woman cannot stand strong alone, she is not worthy of power to rule a nation. They are masters of dirty tricks and have the marketing strategies of Hollywood to orchestrate their ambush. Manipulation is a difficult road to travel and the Clintons know how to manipulate

Posted by: cjvwise1 | Jan 21, 2008 5:33:29 PM

Obama needs to come out Slinging now! The clintons have been trash talking him since day 1.Well Obama I think its time you tell America about all the troubles the Clintons have been in! Time to take the gloves off wouldnt you say? Remind America who voted to send there Son's and Daughter's off to die in Iraq, I think it was Hillary! Remind America who tried and failed at a Nation wide Health Care Plan, I think it was Hillary! We Americans with enough sence to know, who tried bringing up race in this election, I think it was Hillary! We Americans know who tried blocking people from voting in Nevada! All you people mostly the older women make me ashamed to call you a American for Voting for Hillary when she has Voted for the War In Iraq.Its Time for the people who are against hillary's Republican Style Tactics to show up in force and say no for voting for He

Posted by: Listen Up | Jan 21, 2008 6:04:08 PM

What Obama "actually" said abour Reagan is absolutely factual and can not be denied, whethere one agrees with what Reagan did or not. Bill Clinton, being his usual sly self is twisting Obama's words to malign him (and anyone that stands in their way). It only results in reminding us just how fundamentally dishonest are the Clintons.

Posted by: dennis | Jan 21, 2008 6:18:57 PM

Do you believe that giving people payday loans against next year's tax returns is a sound strategy for stimulus or perhaps an investment into fuel cell tech, committing to converting 3 million homes and 2 million cars, would up manufacturing, jobs, and bring the cost of the product down to less than an AC unit so that it can be more widely used is a better plan? Hydrogen can now be manufactured on site, as needed, with a pellet of an aluminum/gallium alloy and water. We get off oil and coal, clean the environment, reduce financial burdens on the middle class and create a whole new major industry, sounds like the economy will be stimulated to me.

Posted by: Louis | Jan 21, 2008 6:19:21 PM

I just had the most amazing thought - what if all this ugliness was just a gimick? What if in the end Hill and O will kiss, make up, and unite to kick the republican's #####? Huge differences and then POW - they are together? See how we can unite? See how we can put aside our differences? That sure would be a freight train that the Repos would have a hard time stopping.

Posted by: 2009 Where Are You | Jan 21, 2008 6:30:03 PM

Rick,

1. I dont think you would have made the same comment if the Obama camp was complaining about the Hillary camp not keeping their pledge, right ??

2. It seems that you feel it is worse for the Hillary camp to complain than it is for the Obama camp to keep their pledge, right ??

3. Now back to Obama, do you think it was Obama intentionally ignoring his pledge here, or do you think he just is not experienced & capable to keep his pledges ?? Or maybe you just don’t feel pledges are important to keep ??

Lastly, of course, i don’t like whiners either, but I also don’t like to someone break pledges so easily (no matter if it was intentional or accidental), and of course, I am pretty sure his reply will be done in a way to avoid saying anything specific about what he did, maybe waiting a couple days first, and then of course find something else to complain back as a distraction. He claims he is a person of change, but to me he is definitely a politician too.

Posted by: rob | Jan 21, 2008 6:44:56 PM

Obama is part of the Washington establishment!!!The only one not part of the Washington scene is John Edwards.Obama can not beat Rommney or McCain

Posted by: Al | Jan 21, 2008 6:48:24 PM

How a candidate reacts underpressure is a Characteristic we should observe and compare with All Candidates running. Hilary is Acting Presidential by NOT being there and going other more important places. Edwards is on the spot to 'Do" sumthing. Obamma is going to have to decide how to 'defend" his statements, which are public record. And sumhow main tain his a show of staying calm and unflustered.

Posted by: Ed Reynolds | Jan 21, 2008 6:53:27 PM

Rick -

Don't you think this is a calculation on the part of the Clinton campaign to try to get the national media to pay attention to Florida? Look at the polls there, they all have Clinton up, some as many as over 30 points. If she loses South Carolina, as expected, there's a lot of time for Obama to use that to gain momentum going into February 5th. A "win" in Florida on January 29th blunts Obama's momentum and gives Clinton the push she needs going into February 5th. And the only way to do that is to try to make sure the national media covers that primary.

If she starts holding events there and makes this a big enough deal, and the national media starts treating Florida as a real race, that's very damaging to Obama, and very beneficial to Clinton because of her big advantage there right now. I mean, just just last the Clinton campaign, allegedly, was looking into holding events in Florida. Don't you think they were just looking for an excuse to go in? Am I missing something?

Posted by: Scott | Jan 21, 2008 6:56:32 PM

Why bother with the debate. It's a done deal. Hilliary/Obama '08. Quit whining already! I just hope Bill will shut up and let whoever the President is the chance to do their job.

Posted by: rw3 | Jan 21, 2008 7:06:28 PM

Scott,

I am actually not for either one yet, but come on....

If there are really Obama ads running in florida, than it was the Obama camp running these ads in florida FIRST and break THEIR pledge not to. Now you are trying to make this into another Hillary conspiracy ??

Posted by: rob | Jan 21, 2008 7:10:55 PM

Rick,

To be honest, i really dont understand what you mean about national media will ignore florida ??

To me, the media is out to make a story about anything they can. Wasn't Michigan one of these other events that no one really campaigned in, but after the results were in, i recall reading something in the media about hillary barely beating uncommitted.

My point is that if that pledge was being kept by the other cadidates and keeping them from getting national attention via cable channels, then why is it ok for Obama to do this ??

As far as i can read into this, they all made the pledge, and Obama is the first to break it. If not a big deal then why dont they all get to get together and confirm what their pledge intentions really are and all agree to do or not do it.

Funny, you say it is a small thing, but look how crazy BOTH camps AND the media will re-act to this issue, just like all the other ones.

If you want to discuss conspiracies, then i offer the alternative. This is just another stunt by the Obama camp to take focus away from the real presidential issues....

For me, i dont believe either one. I think they just did not realize they were breaking their pledge, but of course, instead of just admitting that, we need to get side track with all this meaningless stuff.

Posted by: rob | Jan 21, 2008 7:28:15 PM

hello my friend, rick, keep it real, don't let me down and not mention edwards. he is one third of this debate- no word of him in your opening paragraphs-- thanks

Posted by: lori | Jan 21, 2008 8:09:55 PM

Rick,

You know the tan is from stage makeup, needed for the bright lights on them. Why must you make it seem something about nothing ??

Posted by: rob | Jan 21, 2008 8:14:28 PM

Are you joking me that "dance show" is on abc and we have to get the debate from a blog!?? ABC get with it why don’t you let us see the debate for ourselves let us decide. Or did abc’s parent company give to the Clinton machine and now we only get the information that you want us to have?

Posted by: David | Jan 21, 2008 8:20:18 PM

i agree, david, but i am thankful we do have this blog to get the scoop from, if rick does his job, which i believe he will. thanks rick

Posted by: lori | Jan 21, 2008 8:28:09 PM

It seems to me, the Obama does not actually most of the questions asked of me, just like not saying how he would pay for it. Instead he trouts his common line "everyone is saying wrong things about me". At least the other two answer their questions before they atack the other one.

Posted by: rob | Jan 21, 2008 8:29:31 PM

do hillary and barack personally hate each other?

Posted by: asst regional manager | Jan 21, 2008 8:31:02 PM

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