Dear Hillary, I have one request from you during this debate... Could you please , please , please stop telling me that you understand the middle working class? You continuously speak on my behalf without my permission- YOU senator do not know anything about the working class. Until you have put a hand me down on your precious Chelsea, until you have had to choose between paying to heat your house or saving for your childs college fund..until you have gone to a job where you were held accountable for every decision you made and could not slide your way out of even the decisions that you made in error... Try it Hillary go for it for a month and see what working class is all about! One month of using coupons at a grocery store, another month of putting off going back to college because daycare is over 600 dollars a month ONE month of getting up and going to a dead end job because you have to keep putting off college ( see above). I have grown tired of so much of your rhetoric and your "anti-hope" campaign. Sometimes Senator when life keeps throwing you one thing after another all you have is hope. Meanwhile don't speak for me and my peers, you don't know the first thing about struggling to just be what your exit polls call "uneducated, white, and making less then 50K". I was supposed to be one of your "girls"- hope you missed my vote in Wisconsin. Now why don't you go back to your drawing board and show me what you're all about besides dirty politics, slander, and getting all misty.

I will never vote for Obama!

Up to now there are ten million of us Clinton folks, of that two million will vote Obama should Hillary lose, the rest of us will NEVER vote Obama. Never! Never! If anyone in the McCain camp got one brain cell left alive then they had better start putting out feelers and soon because we have enough on our own to check Obama in place. Maybe we'll just do a write in campaign for Hillary if she loses. The Clinton have no home in this democratic party with this Obama crowd. You made your point Obamabots, you hate us and it sure as hell shows.

Clinton or Obama, it doesn't really matter to me. The party is bigger than the person. It doesn't matter who is the nominee as long as he or she can win the White House. Right now that appears to be Obama. The US does not need one more minute of republican rule after the election. Either canidate, Obama or Clinton is miles and miles better than what we have now in the WH.

not4uHillary, I have a lump in my throat after reading your eloquent post it voices my thoughts and feeling, thank you.

I'm with you Wil. The Obamabots never say anything about the Republicans, they hate us far more than Bush. You're right the Obama zombies have made their point.

Blue states, Red states, Purple states...whatever happened to voting for the person that best represents your own beliefs and morals? Never will you agree completely with everything one person believes in..we are given the freedom to elect the person that best represents us... and only one person out of the major players right now actually acknowledges how much we can all disagree. Only one candidate has actually mentioned even listening to what the public wants not just what they want. I am not a "cultist" as so many of you say I am just sick of elected officials playing mother knows best with us. All of the smearing and lying and he saids she saids..it is disgusting and I for one am fed up with it. All I want is a leader... and unfortunately it has come down to race, age, gender and dirty politics again ( and on all sides no one candidate is innocent here). I think all of you should spend some time researching where your political views fall within your candidates agendas... it is frightening to see people say they won't vote for someone because of rumors or heresay- make an educated decision - if everyone would do that then the best candidate would win. One of these 3 is going to be the next President and all we can do is try to make sure that whether it is our favorite or not at least we can say we tried our best to make an informed decision. In my humble opinion anyway.

She will be in her high temper beyond control and there where OBAMA will beat finally. She is already desperate.

All you republicans in texas and ohio, please vote for Hillary...not Obama...the republicans have a better chance of beating hillary than Obama.

Nice points there not4uHillary. Perhaps you could detail for me in step by step fashion how Obama will correct your situation as you described. And when. Under which programs that will begin and when and where you will be able to access them. I'll wait for your response.

stella, I have googled the information you gave about Cynthis Miller and Jennifer Mason and nothing came up that backs up your statement.

It's easy to throw around accusations and most people don't go ahead and research it so theu buy it hook, line and sinker.

I won't let you be so free and lose with the facts just because Bush is a chimp doesn't mean the rest of us are.

If Rush Limbaugh is saying it, it must be true.

Sorry Norm but the Republican don't have enough voters to vote for themselves. Ask McCain.

Really Wil have ANY of these candidates addressed that? I didn't say he had! I am just saying that she continuously saying she "understands" us and she doesn't..perhaps I should have put that in there...that no one can say they understand it. It just gets to me that she presumes to know what I go through everyday, I may have to vote for her if she wins I just want her to be honest if it comes to that... I will vote Democratic this year don't get me wrong, I just have a higher opinion of one over the other. I wish both of them would cease all of these attacks and SHOW us what they can do... -don't hate me for that

Sandra, my husband is trying to find the site and will put it on this site.

I do not hate you not4uHillary I merely asked for programs that Obama will put in place to assist you in your needs. I asked because I understand this is all about a Federal vote and Federal policies at the national level. All such programs therefore are trickle down and if any reach the state let alone local level at all then I'm completely in the dark. Perhaps you can show me how Obama does it differently. I'll wait for your response.

Thanks, norm and stella. :)

And I support your post not4uHillary I thought your post was heartfelt response not the usual negative statement. :)

Well Wil..what I did was go to his website and look at his outline plans for things such as the economy, education, and Iraq. Then I went to Hillary's and researched her plans...and of course then I went to the really scary one where McCain outlines his plans. I also checked into things like NAFTA and lobbyist contributions to each candidate and other "blemishes" in their past. I can give you the links to these if you would like but other than spending the next hour writing you a thesis on my findings you may just have to believe that even one of the "Obamabot cultists" actually researched the candidates prior to making their decision. I am of the opinion that each of us deserves to have our own opinion, but I think you may just be reading the lines inside of my posts that you want so you can be justifiably infuriated.

Do you think the debate tonight between Hillary and Obama will be heated?

I've only read as far as your Post at 1:02 pm, and I had to stop and thank you for saying what many of us feel about Hillary. Very articulate!

Sorry! My last post was in
reference to the post by Not4uHillary at 1:02 pm.

Thank you not4uHillary, but I do not intend to be as you so well described me justifiably infuriating and on further thought I came to the conclusion you may well be thinking along the lines of where do each, Hilary or Obama, stand on China trade which takes jobs from American workers, jobs being transfered to India, problems with the low American dollar, the horrible rise in fuel prices and where and what does each candidate stand on these issues and how do they intend to address it. Also I believe your question you put between the lines may also have to do with the enormous amount of money flowing into Iraq which would better serve people like us at home. Maybe I may have read too much in your thoughts as I outlined above, but in any case it sure is nice to talk issues for a change. I will wait for your response.

You are so right about her statements that she understands the middle class. What got me was the TV ad about night workers with the closing remark: "Hillary understands, she worked the night shift too"
I'm sorry but after working nights for 10 years, while raising two kids alone that makes me want to scream. Has she ever gotten off work in the morning and deferred sleep until the kids are in school, then try to squeeze in 6 hours sleep so you can get up in time to pick them up from school? Try to stay awake all day on the weekends so your kids know they have at least one parent? Looked in the mirror and wondered why you look 10 years older than your peers because you are so sleep deprived? Tried to figure out a new way to fix macaroni when thats all thats left to eat two days before payday? Pray that the kids cold doesn't get worse becauase if you have to pay to take them to the doctor you wont have gas money to drive to work?
Norm- this is not about what Obama will do for the middle class, this is about my being offended and outraged at HRC for even insinuating that she ever, even for one day, walked in the shoes of the original poster on this thread, or me, or millions of others.

(sorry if this post shows up more than once, I keep getting a typepad notice that it is being held for review due to posible spam so I keep editing it to try to figure out what is giving typepad gas)

Victoria, you are right. Obama is "Green". He is for protecting our environment, increasing MPG on cars, and getting rid of our greedy dependence on oil. Reagan and both Bush'es have been disastrous to our precious environment. It will be nice to have a forward thinking President that looks out for all the people not just the top 1 percent. Obama 2008!

I think by now anyone seriously interested in the race for the Democratic nomination knows where each candidate stands on the issues. They have been doing the apparent requisite spin on each other's positions and have had to defend their positions accordingly. My hope for this evening is that Obama (whom I support for too many reasons to outline here) keeps his cool and does not "lose it" as Mrs. Clinton has done lately. Despite her acknowledged intelligence, she hasn't exactly been behaving too Presidential lately.

What the hell is going on here? Are you nuts actually talking about real issues?

LYNNE B. - YOU OBVIOUSLY MISSED THE MESSAGE OF HER AD. SHE DOES UNDERSTAND THE MIDDLE CLASS AND HAS ALWAYS FOUGHT FOR US. HER AD IS SHE WORKS UNTIL SHE GETS THE JOB DONE. MR. OBAMA WENT TO IVY LEAUGE SCHOOLS AND WAS BROUGHT UP IN A BEAUTIFUL AREA OF HAWAII AND THAT WOMAN OF A WIFE OF HIS ALSO HAS BEEN PRIVILEGED. I SAW HILLARY'S AD AND I WASN'T OFFENDED. I THINK AND DON'T GET MAD BUT YOU ARE JEALOUS OF HER. YOU HAVE TO ADMIT SHE IS DETERMINED AND HARD WORKING. SHE IS STOOD UP TO ALOT OF CRITICS AND BASHING AND WHEN SHE GIVES IT BACK -PEOPLE CALL HER A #####. VERY UNFAIR AND UNJUST. IF OBAMA GETS THE NOMINATION AND I BELIEVE HE WILL - I AM GOING OVER TO MCCAINS CAMP.

RIGHT ON DORIS.

Good points Doris. Obama the coke head. Maybe he is still doing drugs and that is why is always smiling.

When I look at Obama - my stomach turns because of the garbage that comes out of his mouth. Any one but Obama.

Wil yes I think you may have hit at least three of my main concerns on the head there.. mostly the money going into this war everday while we suffer here on American soil...it is some outrageous number right now- like 4 million a minute ..almost laughable if it wasn't partially mine ( taxes you know)It invigorates me to see people stop debating each others opinions on this post and start debating the issues.. there are stories coming out on this post which we all should demand to be addressed by anyone wooing us for our vote... stories that are people's lives -every single day- and we can sit here and say oh one of the candidates had a better home life, or had more money but what does it matter now that they all have the billions it takes to run. I wish they would just step back and remember what even a couple hundred dollars means to a working person. Sorry if I seemed hostile in my earlier post, it is simply what I have come to expect when I say I support Obama.

Doris, I think you should watch the debate very closely tonight. You'll see that Barack is the real deal. Politically Obama and Clinton are very, very close. I think that they would both do a great job. However, I would be worried about Hillary losing in the Fall, nobody can get the GOP troops fired up like she can. Barack polls much better against McCain. I think he will win Texas, Ohio, and PA. Obama 2008!

Mike - its not about issues anymore. After 19 debates, everyone knows and is already bored with the candidates' positions on the issues. This 20th debate is solely about which Clinton persona shows up.

Paul, that is part of Hillary's problem. She's been too political. She accidentally found out that crying worked for her in NH. She found out that negative campaigning did not work in a few other states. She does not come off as being herself, in my opinion. There are still a few issues to debate if we have a good moderator tonight. I would like him to ask Hillary why she doesn't support raising the cap on Social Security so that Bill Gates isn't done paying into Social Security on January 1st. Obama 2008!

Posted by: Wil | Feb 26, 2008 2:18:27 PM
"I came to the conclusion you may well be thinking along the lines of where do each, Hilary or Obama, stand on China trade which takes jobs from American workers, jobs being transfered to India, problems with the low American dollar, the horrible rise in fuel prices and where and what does each candidate stand on these issues and how do they intend to address it."

I know that Sen. Obama is for keeping jobs in America this is why he keeps bring up NAFTA to Hillary because she supported it.

Obama attacks hillary for her support of NAFTA which is an agreement between the U S,Canada and Mexico..Right now ou jobs are being outsourced to China,India and other Asian countries not covered by NAFTA,so don`t you think Obama is a little off base...We have to stop corporate greed because thats whats causing jobs to be outsourced,,Obama get off the flipping pedestal and talk substance rather than preacher type crap..

pt (Post 3:09 pm): As a former SSA employee, I can tell you that one of the more absurb arguments against eliminating or really raising the tax cap(the cap IS raised a little every year)is that it would be a drain on the fund. The reason cited is this: The formula used to determine a person's benefit amount is based on the number of years worked under Social Security and also the amount a person "pays into" the system. The more a person pays in, the more they get in benefits each month. They say to eliminate or significantly raise the tax cap would cause a corresponding increase in the benefits of those like Bill Gates as you cited in your post. This would speed up the process of "going broke". Although, in theory that is correct, I don't but it. I'm middle class, and I'm already paying out taxes for things I don't get benefits for (not complaining), so why can't the wealthy pay a little more in Social Security taxes to keep the program solvent. In other words, raise the tax cap(more than a couple Ks a year) but don't raise the ceiling on monthly payments. (Yes there is a ceiling but I don't remember how much it is. Retired a few years ago.) That way, the trust fund will take in more than it pays out. It would be interesting to see where the candidates stand on this.

Obama doesnt need to win. He doesnt need to do anything. He doesnt need to accomplish anything. He doesnt need to even have a clean past. He just needs to give good speeches and have the media outright try to SQUASH Bill and Hillary Clinton.

So of course he isnt going to do anything in the debate cause he never wins the debates. He doesnt NEED to ever win a debate. He has the MEDIA spinning everything he does.

I say it is 3 to 1 that HRC will explode. She will raise her voice and point her finger. She will accuse and infer, she will do everything except go over the issues or state why she is the best person for the job, only that you don't want this other guy. Obma would be best served by calling her on her bahvior and being very blunt about the fact that a head of state does not use mocking and ridicule to get their point across.

Dear Wil, I hope Hillary's proposed dealings don't mimick her husband Bill's proposals on the issue of trade to China. You know the ones in which he sold out America to China!

Doris,

I'll call it a rant because you used all caps. Obama earned his way into the ivy league, was raised by a single mom, and did not take the highest paying jobs, but the ones where he thought he could make the most impact. Michelle Obama's father was some type of city worker in Chicago, and she by no means had a privileged upbringing. None of this is to say that HRC hasn't paid some dues, but you can't make a good argument about Obama being some spoiled rich kid. THAT award goes to George W. Bush.

Just as when Bill Clinton was running for President.. the media is out for Hillary.. it is obvious!
I would be losing my temper also were I Hillary.. I only get from him these speeches that he did not write half of..and for both candidates... if you want to be President write your own speeches .. every word of them!

Obama is too green as someone said .. Hillary half ran the state when Bill Clinton was governor and the U.S. when he was President .. hmmm, reminds me those days when the economy was at an all time high ...miss those days .. I feel she is more qualified.

Both candidates had it decent growing up.. perhaps Hillary was a rung or two up on Obama .. as for Michelle she has not been proud of our country till recently .. so sad.. poor woman .. a slip of the tongue.. haha ,, no way .. she is an accomplished attorney they speak before many .. she said what she meant and meant what she said .. I was just going to compare her and Bill Clinton's upbringing as he comes from a one parent household and was not by any means well off .. Hillary comes from a wealthier family but they are not THAT wealthy..

And to not4uHillary.. you wrote a passionate comment .. tell me why you think things will be so much better with Obama ? please.. Hillary knows about the middle class, she married a middle class man .. you should not throw Chelsea in the speech in the way you did calling her 'your precious Chelsea'.. all mother's consider their children precious ..she was ridiculed enough by Rush and his posse when her Dad was president!! Day in and out !
I am so upset by some of these comments.. it is not about how well you give a speech but your qualifications for the job .. Hillary has those .. if Obama wins I will vote for McCain as bad as I detest the thought.. he is not ready .. he should be her running mate as VP.. then after her term run.. perfect solution ..

Peace!

Well The debate is over and I think it was far more civil than I expected after all the madness leading up to it. I also thought that there were a whole lot of trap questions mostly from our mad moderator Tim. They were trying to mix the hornets up but both Hillary and Obama did a good job staying on track.

Hillary supporters who think that another McBush regime would be preferable to Obama Please consider what that would mean. How can McCain who has actively sought to follow the Bush doctrine be a better candidate than Barack who has basically the same platform as Hillary???? I hear a lot of complaints about Obama supporters attacking Hillary but I don't see many of them threatening to defect to the GOP. Stop the foolishness and come clean you are really Republican plants to rally for Hillary because you think she would be a easier win. Maybe not but I don't know any real Democrats that would want a new Bush in office over a good solid Democrat weather it is Hillary or Barack.

PS thanks for the heart felt words everyone who isn't threatening to vote for McCain if they don't get their way like spoiled childeren. I have more respect for strait talking Republicans that at least come out and say Hey I'm for McCain than sneaky Republicans that try to influence the Democratic Base.
Peace
Obama or Hillary 08

Why isn't Obama ready?? He seems ready to me. If Barack would be good enough as a running mate for Hillary why is McCain better if Obama is the nominee??? This argument doesn't make sense to me.

Less experience.. as VP he would have more in running a country.. and I know you will say Hillary has no ..i don't agree. She was the other half of Clinton's presidency and when she was first lady in Arkansas she was very active.. she created the HIPPA program one among many .. and yes, i will vote for Mccain before Obama ..i do not care for his rhetoric and speeches that are not half his own.. or his wifes statement about America... He is better at making speeches than Hilary.. that's about it from what I see.

Ok that is fine I understand why you would chose Hillary over Barack. The way you see it her experience in the white house with Bill makes her more prepared in your eyes. I get that and though I don't agree with it that makes sense as a point of view. What I don't get and what you haven't explained is why if Hillary doesn't get the nomination and Barack does why in the world would you switch to McCain??? Have you checked any of his policies???
Do you support the way Bush has run the country?? Because If you do then why vote for Hillary to begin with? McCain since his bid for Pres has adopted Bushes agenda as his own and in my humble opinion would be a catastrophic continuation of the Bush Presidency. Please explain to me why that would be better than Barack who at the level of issues is very similar to Hillary??? The way I see it I think Barack is better equipped to beat McCain but if Hillary gets the nomination I'll vote for her because she is at least better than continuing the failed policies of bush.

For every person here who say that if Obama wins the democratic nomination they will vote for Mccain, you are very much part of the problem, not the solution. I have listened to the debates, Obama and Hillary have similar positions on many of there issues, just a few differs. Running to the Republican's side if the process determines that Obama is the nominee is immature. You say that Obama is not experienced enough. But didn't Bush had all his experience aides around him including members of Congress when he decided to Invade Iraq. They were all experienced yet looked where we are today.

I think walking out of a meeting was a stupid thing of Obama to do but its still not over.......
And why exactly is Hillary thinking she is more qualified for the job? Just because she was in the white house as a first lady? So what, she wasn't president.