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Obama Disputes Clinton's Popular Vote Count

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April 23, 2008 4:22 PM

ABC News' Sunlen Miller, David Wright & Andy Fies Report: Barack Obama says it's an "abstract measure" to count votes in Michigan and Florida, whose contests were essentially nulled by the Democratic National Committee when the states violated party rules and moved their primaries ahead of others in the election calendar.

"There have been a number of different formulations that the Clinton campaign has been trying to arrive at to suggest that somehow they're not behind," Obama told reporters following a town hall meeting in New Albany, Indiana, "If you want to count them for some abstract measure, you're free to do so. But, you know, the way that the popular vote is translated is into delegates, that's how these primaries and these caucuses work."

Watch the VIDEO HERE.

The debate is more than an academic one for the candidates and Democratic superdelegates who may decide the tightly contested nomination.

If votes in Florida and Michigan count toward the national popular vote total, Clinton currently leads Obama by over 100,000 votes; if those states do not count, Obama leads Clinton by several hundred thousand.

Adding another point of contention: Obama's name did not appear on the Michigan ballot but both candidates did appear on ballots in the Florida contest.

For the latest delegate and vote count, visit the Politics page of ABCNews.com

Obama said on Wednesday, the day after a double digit defeat in the Pennsylvania primary, said he would leave it to reporters to "sort thought the various permutations of what should count and what shouldn't that the Clinton camp is presenting."

Not surprisingly, Sen. Clinton is advocating for inclusion of the Florida and Michigan counts, a position she made clear in an interview on Wednesday's "Good Morning America".

"The votes in Michigan and Florida were official," Clinton told ABC News' Diane Sawyer, "I mean, they were certified by the secretary of state. It's just that the Democratic Party can't figure out what to do with all those votes, and try to seat delegates."

"I actually have more votes from people who actually voted for me," Clinton added. "Last night's win should give a lot of fresh information to our superdelegates, because after all, the road to Pennsylvania Avenue does lead through Pennsylvania."

At his earlier event in Indiana, Obama responded to a question on superdelegates saying, "I do think that these elections that we've been doing should be counted for something, and if we've won the most delegates from the voters, seems to me that it might be a good idea to make me the nominee."

Obama also took a moment to analyze his Pennslyvania loss for the press.

"If you look at the numbers, in fact, the problem has less to do with white working class voters, in fact the problem is, that to the extent there is a problem, is that older voters are very loyal to Senator Clinton. And I think part of that is they've got a track record of voting for not just Senator Clinton but also her husband," Obama said.

The junior Senator from Illinois also complained about his rival's approach to their nomination fight.

"Nobody has complained more about the press, about questions at debates, about being mistreated than Senator Clinton has or President Clinton," the candidate said, quickly adding, "I've always believed that if you're tough you don't have to talk about it."

Tuesday's loss marks the third time in recent months Obama has had an opportunity to put sizeable distance between he and his rival, with opportunities to all but end the nomination contest in Ohio, Texas, and Pennsylvania.

When asked by reporters why he can't seem to close the deal with voters, Obama replied, "The way we're gonna close the deal is by winning, and right now we're winning . . . I think it's apparent that we're in the strongest position to win in November."

April 23, 2008 in Bush, George W., Hunter, Duncan, Kucinich, Dennis, Tancredo, Tom, Thompson, Fred | Permalink | User Comments (748)

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Abstract Measure? Will those democrats be Abstract to you in November, there, Barak. After all, the took the time to stand in line and vote. Almost 3 million of them.. ready to throw them under the bus with Grandma for a win?

Change we can believe in.

Posted by: A reader in georgia | Apr 23, 2008 4:33:55 PM

Great answers, great leadership and vision for America. Thank you Obama. Hill the Bosnian General is seeing snipers again all over the place and would like to legitimize the illegal. Nobody will take the nomination from the winner Obama to the loser Hillary. She can run but she cannot hide. She will bring the democratic party down because she is unelectable and knows that reality. God bless America and God bless Obama. OBAMA08.

Posted by: BKMC | Apr 23, 2008 4:36:07 PM

The only decision that was made regarding Michigan and Florida was that the delegates would not be seated. The popular vote still counts. In Florida, only Obama campaigned by airing television commercials for three weeks. In Michigan, Obama and Edwards decided to take their names off the ballot. The point is that the delegate issue still has to be resolved, but the popular votes must be counted in the totals. Obama did not want a re-vote in Michigan and Florida, and worked against it. Certainly Obama cannot want to disenfranchise the voters in Florida and Michigan, since these states are needed to win the General Election.

Posted by: svsolis | Apr 23, 2008 4:36:45 PM

Lovely -- two narcissists in a brawl, with their enablers clashing on line and in the media. This is AWESOME!

PS: isnt clinton just baiting him on the FL/Mich thing? Everytime she claims it, he dismisses the votes- which will just agitate Dems in those states who supported her overwhelmingly. LOL. He keeps falling for every trap these days. I guess he got too confident hearing all of the "Yes We Can" chanters.

Posted by: tony | Apr 23, 2008 4:38:24 PM

Obama said on Wednesday, the day after a double digit defeat in the Pennsylvania primary, said he would leave it to reporters to "sort thought the various permutations of what should count and what shouldn't that the Clinton camp is presenting."
That's very brave of you Obama. Of course, only the votes in Your Favor should count, the ones for Hillary should be thrown under the bus with grandma.
Did Obama commit to another debate while he was at it? No? Wimp.
GO HILLARY 08!

Posted by: calli | Apr 23, 2008 4:38:56 PM

She won by only 9.34% and virtually every expert I heard quoted said she needed 10% or better to be viable. Everybody is reporting 10% but it is not there with rounding. What gives!

Posted by: Wellican Uzacalculator | Apr 23, 2008 4:41:00 PM

He's such a hypocritical jerk. He wants the superdelegates to go to person who is winning the popular vote, but even though Hillary won the popular vote in Texas and Nevada he's okay with getting more delegates there because of the screwy way the distributed them. Florida is not an abstract state, it is the state that has decided the presidential election twice. But he's content to tell those voters their votes don't count now. He's a self-absorbed, arrogant jerk. I'm so sick of hearing that somehow Hillary's the bad guy because she won't give up. He cannot win the big states, he cannot win the swing states and despite having 3 times has much money as she does, he still got his rear kicked last night. He cannot win the general election.

Posted by: Wendy | Apr 23, 2008 4:42:45 PM

If the democrats don't count Florida and Michigan votes, the REPUBLICANS will in the general election!!!

Posted by: Isabel | Apr 23, 2008 4:43:49 PM

Go home Hillary the Bosnian General, go, the pocket is empty, Penn has to be paid but the Colombian government cannot give you more money for your campaign nor can the Saudis and people from Dubai and the Emirats. People who you want to protect against Iran without their request to do so. Feramonger and warmonger Hill, good luck in the senate. God bless America and God bless obama.OBAMA08.

Posted by: BKMC | Apr 23, 2008 4:44:31 PM

I'd like to thank Senator Clinton for handing the White House over to Senator McCain. Way to go...

Posted by: jmengate | Apr 23, 2008 4:44:49 PM

FACT: Mr Obama worked his yung adult life AND his early years asa civil rights DEFENDER. He worked tirelesly to register voters in Illinois to back Then candidate Bill Clinotn.Mr.Obama's RECORD is one of DEFENSEin the protection of VOTERS RIGHTS. YET...FACT: MR Obama WAS on the Michigan ballot and REMOVED is name;not anyone's fault but his own!! ANDhe REFUSES to allow the votes of AMERICNS IN MICHIGAN AND FLORIDA; as if these AMERICANS don't even exist. AMERICANS... DEMAND that ALL poplar votes be counted. Do NOT support OBAMA's disenfranchisement of AMERICANS'VOICES and their votes..

Posted by: DaneNM | Apr 23, 2008 4:48:12 PM

The US deserves Hillary Clinton for their President. I'm serious. We hate the facts. We hate the truth. We love to be part of the mob and beat down on those damn free thinkers. We are a nation of bullies who love to pile on the new guy and then laugh about it later while convincing ourselves that they deserved it. We'd prefer to be told what to do and what to think than decide for ourselves. Even when we are shown the lie, we will still accept it. We are her people. Obama thinks too highly of us.

Is there any doubt AT ALL in anyone's mind that Hillary and/or Bill Clinton will lie at any opportunity if they believe it will serve them better than the truth? Be it over sexual relations with 'that' woman. I supported NAFTA while I was against it, or was it that she was against NAFTA while she supported it? Bringing peace to Northern Ireland and Bosnia. Sniper fire. Taxes. White House experience, 3 a.m. calls. I heard the recording of Bill Clinton saying that the Obama Campaign played the race card, and hours later he denied saying it at all. That has been a running theme in this campaign. Lay out an accusation to the press of active wrongdoing on the part of the Obama campaign, no proof, mind you, only an accusation and then pretend you said no such thing when confronted with the fact that the accusation is unfounded.

The press is complicit. the bigger the whopper, the more coverage it will get. Was the Rev. Wright thing, or the bitter comments, really that much of a story or did they become the big story because everyone felt a need to tear down the new guy. The fact the Hillary Clinton lied, or misspoke about her trip to Bosnia did not get half the coverage of Wright. The fact that she said quite clearly that she would commit US troops to any Mid-East conflict and directly threatened Iran (who according to the NIE has no viable nuke program, the NIE was right about Iraq, I see no reason to doubt them here). No press, no massive outcry of war hawkishness, foreign policy naiveté, no pre-emptive rush to war, again.

Hillary Clinton has lied to us, hidden things from us, misled us on her policies and positions. Has all but ceased presenting the merits of her case to be the President in favor of attacking her opponent to make you vote against him rather than for her. She knows what we are; scared monkeys that wait for the crack of the whip to know which way to jump instead of selecting a path for ourselves that will lead away from that torture all together.

Hillary Clinton says she is only doing what the Republicans were going to do against Obama anyway. If that is the case, what makes her different from any other Republican? what makes her different from George Bush for that matter? Her plans for social security is the same as his, form a committee and wait. Attacking Iran is on her agenda, the same as his. She will listen to the Generals on the ground in Iraq to decide what to do, just as he does. She has made impossible promises during the campaign that the office of the President cannot deliver on. When they evaporate and she is branded a liar, she will say she only misspoke, or that it is 'their' fault, or she will simply gloss over it and present a new shiny thing to get our attention. HRC is the secret Republican candidate. Obama is the only candidate left in the race that does not have a Republican agenda and does not use republican tactics. Pointing and blaming to win at politics has been successful for a long time.

I'll say it again. We are a nation of bullies and thugs. We will follow the person who is picking on the other guy, because we don't want them picking on us. As a mob we will accept lies for truth if we hear it loud and long enough, even when the facts are held up to us brightly.

Here are some examples of some truths that people don't care about and find it more acceptable to believe the lie:

Obama is and has not been a Muslim, in faith or practice. - There has never been anything other than innuendo to suggest otherwise. He was not sworn in on the Koran.

Obama loves America. - Not just because he says it, but because for over 20 years he has worked avidly on the behalf of his fellow citizens. If you believe that the end all be all of patriotism is encompassed by a lapel pin, that is exactly what the rising socialist party in Germany believed in the 30's when they required their members to wear their pins to prove loyalty.

Obama is not an elitist. - He grew up with divorced parents without any great wealth. Went to school on scholarship and student loans. Did not have significant financial success until after publishing a book. Still the least wealthy candidate in the race. That said being elite is a good thing, he is well educated, articulate, and intelligent, with high levels of compassion and empathy and has a highly organized and tactical mind. We should want someone who is the best of the best, or elite, to be the President. Of the three remaining candidates, I would say that Obama has the most and most recent experience actually working on the front lines for the people in this country.

Not everyone Obama ever knew or met tells him what to think, or will somehow have influence over him as President. - We all know people that we have significant differences with, some we work with, some we associate with, some we know in passing. Rarely could any of them dictate to us what we think and believe. Certainly even fewer than that would be able to tell us how we do our jobs. No other candidate is being held to that standard.

Obama has not been vetted - Please find me another candidate that has had his patriotism questioned so openly and baldly. Show me another candidate who has had investigations into his life and his writings played across the press going back to his days in kindergarten. Find me another candidate that had so little to be found in his own life to attack that the Republican opposition, including Hillary Clinton has had to resort to not only making things up out of whole cloth but also attacking anyone he knew for longer than 10 minutes for something they may have said or done, sometimes prior to ever having met the candidate.

The Republicans and HRC are counting on people to not think. To be afraid, to not trust what is different. To listen more to a 30 second commercial that not so subtly and completely falsely tries to connect her opponent to a terrorist. Obama thinks that you are better than that, that you will read the positions and policies and make a decision on what is best for the country.

I know better. HRC and the Republicans want to incite a lynch mob and are doing a good job with it. Like that lynch mob you will surely feel guilty tomorrow, maybe even a little ashamed for being so easily led, but you are marching along today, chest puffed out and holding your heads high.

If you believe the polls, over half the registered democrats believe her to be untrustworthy, nearly 60% in the last poll. A blip on the news, Obama's bowling score got more coverage. yet she continues to be competitive. Why? Because Americans know they can trust a lying politician to lie and can accept that but a truthful politician cannot be withstood. Someone who calls us to be our better selves must be defeated, because to be our better selves would force us to face that we have been less than we should have been, and we can't have that.

Hillary Clinton has been clear that she is willing to win at any cost. While we may want to admire that sentiment, take a moment to think about it. She is willing to sacrifice anything and everything to win. The reason this sounds familiar is because it is the same philosophy the current administration has of its agenda.

You'll probably win HRC. You will do whatever is necessary to do so, and your opponent will continue to appeal to our better angles in the false belief that they are there to hear him. Americans do not want the audacity of hope. They do not want responsibility, they do not want truth. It is easier to mumble "No we can't" than the other thing. We crave the juicy gossip, the innuendo, and the boldest of lies, the cheap shot, it is just more entertaining. Hillary likes to keep us beating up on the new guy, because she feels she has already gotten her lumps. In the face of not having anything to beat him up on, she can make stuff up, we don't care. we just prefer to beat someone down than lift, even ourselves, up.

Obama, America doesn't want hope. They want grist for the mill. Call Hillary Clinton the alternate Republican candidate. Tell them if it walks, talks and campaigns like a Republican...Flat our call her a racist for associating with racists. Say she is an elitist of the first order that hasn't done an honest day's hard work in her adult life. Call her a warmonger who does not truly regret or apologize for her vote to go to war and eagerly awaits the chance to bomb Iran. That she has pimped her daughter and ridden the coattails of her philandering husband to win an election. Call her a liar to her face at the next debate.

By going so negative, the press will brand you a liar on you mission of change, THEN American will trust you.

Posted by: Louis | Apr 23, 2008 4:49:01 PM

IF Obama were truly for all people he would let the votes and delegates count. Just goes to show he talks out of both sides of his mouth. So much for that Hope and Change BS. In the end I am sure the DNC will make sure that both votes and delegates count. Unless they are really that stupid.

Posted by: J | Apr 23, 2008 4:49:10 PM

Instead of the media just looking at Obama's ability to capture the white working class voter, the media should also focus on a Hillary question: How the HECK is Hillary going to capture the African-American vote if she indeed wins this nomination?

The reality is that she is NOT and therefore she is NOT going to win the General Election because she will turn off the African-American vote.

The BASE of the Democratic party is NOT the white working class voters as the media spin is right now but the African-American voter.

Without overwhelming African-American vote in the Fall in huge numbers NO Dem nominee will win the general election. As a result, I think that Hillary has made herself unelectable.

Posted by: stacey | Apr 23, 2008 4:51:13 PM

Riiight!!!!!!!
Sure obama, start "questioning" the Hillary Clinton campaign - AGAIN!
When you are challenged that's all you can do, spew out the meaningless words. How about another magnificent speech right about now? You know, just like the one on race that you so magnificently gave? That speech (words again - no substance) put you back in the race for president?
Wrong!
Your true self came out in the debate with Clinton where she stomped you into the dirt. Hillary Clinton wiped that smirk off your face - at last!
Go Hillary
Drop out now obama - you've done enough damage to the Democratic party and in playing the race card to divide this nation. Get out and go away.
Hope and Change? Worthless, un-backable words - words, words, words, no action.
There is no "beef" to you obama - just empty words.
Go make some more kool aid for your cult followers so they can start spewing more hate for Clinton on these blogs.

Posted by: Lou | Apr 23, 2008 4:52:00 PM

The Democrats need to take a serious look at their primary rules when this thing is over. Punishing two states by stripping them of all their delegates and giving a bunch of party insiders the power to overrule the voice of the people is beyond stupid. And it has nothing to do with democracy.

It is time the Democrats start living up to their name.

Posted by: El Pajaro | Apr 23, 2008 4:52:15 PM

Wendy....good post.

Posted by: barb | Apr 23, 2008 4:53:16 PM

Obama just lost FL and MI for good.

Posted by: Demhypocrisy | Apr 23, 2008 4:53:17 PM

is anyone as sick of this as i am. i'm not voting for mccain. that's all i care about. Who it is, i don't care. End it.

Posted by: jessboston | Apr 23, 2008 4:53:19 PM

I would have been more impressed if Hillary had stood up for all the voters when these states defied the party and the major candidates to hold early elections. Just like her decision to give Bush a blank check to war, Hillary plays politics not principals only to see that the latter will count down the stretch.

Posted by: sdk | Apr 23, 2008 4:54:04 PM

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