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Obama Disputes Clinton's Popular Vote Count

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April 23, 2008 4:22 PM

ABC News' Sunlen Miller, David Wright & Andy Fies Report: Barack Obama says it's an "abstract measure" to count votes in Michigan and Florida, whose contests were essentially nulled by the Democratic National Committee when the states violated party rules and moved their primaries ahead of others in the election calendar.

"There have been a number of different formulations that the Clinton campaign has been trying to arrive at to suggest that somehow they're not behind," Obama told reporters following a town hall meeting in New Albany, Indiana, "If you want to count them for some abstract measure, you're free to do so. But, you know, the way that the popular vote is translated is into delegates, that's how these primaries and these caucuses work."

Watch the VIDEO HERE.

The debate is more than an academic one for the candidates and Democratic superdelegates who may decide the tightly contested nomination.

If votes in Florida and Michigan count toward the national popular vote total, Clinton currently leads Obama by over 100,000 votes; if those states do not count, Obama leads Clinton by several hundred thousand.

Adding another point of contention: Obama's name did not appear on the Michigan ballot but both candidates did appear on ballots in the Florida contest.

For the latest delegate and vote count, visit the Politics page of ABCNews.com

Obama said on Wednesday, the day after a double digit defeat in the Pennsylvania primary, said he would leave it to reporters to "sort thought the various permutations of what should count and what shouldn't that the Clinton camp is presenting."

Not surprisingly, Sen. Clinton is advocating for inclusion of the Florida and Michigan counts, a position she made clear in an interview on Wednesday's "Good Morning America".

"The votes in Michigan and Florida were official," Clinton told ABC News' Diane Sawyer, "I mean, they were certified by the secretary of state. It's just that the Democratic Party can't figure out what to do with all those votes, and try to seat delegates."

"I actually have more votes from people who actually voted for me," Clinton added. "Last night's win should give a lot of fresh information to our superdelegates, because after all, the road to Pennsylvania Avenue does lead through Pennsylvania."

At his earlier event in Indiana, Obama responded to a question on superdelegates saying, "I do think that these elections that we've been doing should be counted for something, and if we've won the most delegates from the voters, seems to me that it might be a good idea to make me the nominee."

Obama also took a moment to analyze his Pennslyvania loss for the press.

"If you look at the numbers, in fact, the problem has less to do with white working class voters, in fact the problem is, that to the extent there is a problem, is that older voters are very loyal to Senator Clinton. And I think part of that is they've got a track record of voting for not just Senator Clinton but also her husband," Obama said.

The junior Senator from Illinois also complained about his rival's approach to their nomination fight.

"Nobody has complained more about the press, about questions at debates, about being mistreated than Senator Clinton has or President Clinton," the candidate said, quickly adding, "I've always believed that if you're tough you don't have to talk about it."

Tuesday's loss marks the third time in recent months Obama has had an opportunity to put sizeable distance between he and his rival, with opportunities to all but end the nomination contest in Ohio, Texas, and Pennsylvania.

When asked by reporters why he can't seem to close the deal with voters, Obama replied, "The way we're gonna close the deal is by winning, and right now we're winning . . . I think it's apparent that we're in the strongest position to win in November."

April 23, 2008 in Bush, George W., Hunter, Duncan, Kucinich, Dennis, Tancredo, Tom, Thompson, Fred | Permalink | User Comments (748)

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She won PA by 8.6% at the last count which certainly is not double digits (over 10%).
Clinton seems to have serious math problems.
Perhaps she is too busy planning the nuking of Iran to bother with such trivia.
As if the Middle Easterners don't have enough problems (that includes Israel), they have a deranged future President who will leave them with a nuclear winter.

Posted by: susants | Apr 23, 2008 4:55:12 PM

That's right -- keep it up, Obama and Obamaniacs. The notion of counting every voter is abstract.

Just like you have not won anything for a solid two months now.

Posted by: commonsensenj | Apr 23, 2008 4:55:28 PM

Is it any wonder that Hillary would, once again, stretch the truth?

She truly is a "congenital liar" ....


Posted by: TX | Apr 23, 2008 4:55:35 PM

The DNC stripped MI and FL of their delegates. There is nothing dishonest to say that X amount of people voted for a specific candidate, especially where the votes have been state certified. The votes are votes cast. So, it is technically true more votes have been cast for Clinton. That doesn't mean that they have the same weight from a delegate standpoint.

Posted by: LOM | Apr 23, 2008 4:56:32 PM

commonsensenj - Obama has won several contests in the last two months. What are you talking about?

Posted by: jock59801 | Apr 23, 2008 4:57:03 PM

Are you Hillary supporters serious? Everyone keeps talking about how Barack can't seal the deal...Ummm, why is nobody asking why Hillary, can not pass Odama in delegates? Why can't she even get in a position to seal the deal? She isn't even arguing that she can beat Barack, cause she knows she can't. She just is saying he can't win, but she can? Please, save us all the time and annoyance and just drop out Mrs. Bill Clinton

Posted by: SecOfState | Apr 23, 2008 4:57:19 PM

GREAT ANSWER OBAMA. HILLARY IS UNELECTABLE AND CA NOT WIN THIS NIMINATION.

O OBAMA '08.

Posted by: I.A.T.SMITH | Apr 23, 2008 4:57:25 PM

If we do the arithmetic to a few more decimal places we get that Clinton got 9.3229% more votes than Obama.
She didnt win by double digits as her friends in the media spin it for her.
Do the math 6th graders. 9.3 never ever rounds up to 10. She won by 9%.
In her home state, with the mayors machines of Philly and Pittsburgh and the Governor all working for her, she couldnt come up to the required double digit win. She is behind by so many actual delegates that she is trying to spin that votes in states whose elections failed to follow party rules and which no one else campaigned, should count to show how strong she is. Utter nonsense.
This is Bill, asking what we mean by IS. We mean how many delegates did you win, by WIN.
And she lost Texas Bill. 99-94 in delegate count, the only measure that will win anyone the nomination. So really, she is done. All in good time, it shall be revealed even to the 4th graders who wanted you to think she had the coveted 10 pt win, which she failed to accomplish, after all is said and done. Yet another spin and failure for her.

Posted by: bruce becker | Apr 23, 2008 4:57:37 PM

GREAT ANSWER OBAMA. HILLARY IS UNELECTABLE AND CA NOT WIN THIS NIMINATION.

GO OBAMA '08.

Posted by: I.A.T.SMITH | Apr 23, 2008 4:58:00 PM

The reason clinton wants to count the votes in FL and MI, she wants Obama to be confused and make a big mistake. This is getting old it's all reruns and broken records same old stuff.

Obama's state wins 30 lost 15, Delegate count 1715 +/-, Negatives are way down, Better nominee

Clinton's state wins 15 lost 30, Delegate count 1585 +/-, Negatives way up. Not a good nominee.

Fund Raising Obama beats Clinton or McCain Expediently.

Registering new voters Obama beats Clinton or McCain.

Bring the country together Obama beats Clinton or McCain.

Overall, Obama beats Clinton or McCain.

Race against McCain, Obama better nominee.

Ending the War in Iraq, Obama will, Hillary or McCain wont.

Obama all the way!


Posted by: Lookup | Apr 23, 2008 4:58:25 PM

please hllary just let it go
in no way you can win the nomination

Posted by: SAM | Apr 23, 2008 4:58:49 PM

Oh so the FL and MI votes are now abstract measures, so what is Obama saying he does not need them??

Fine with me well lets see you win an election without them them.

Posted by: SJ | Apr 23, 2008 4:58:53 PM

Actually, they shouldn't count - neither candidate campaigned in those states and Obama was not even on the ballot in MI. In FL people were voting to lower property taxes - there was a record turn out and it was for that, NOT for Hillary. The election was so early that without the campaigning, none of us knew anything about Obama to vote for him.

I'm sure it would be a much different outcome if the election were held today in those two states..... except in S Florida where those idiot old Dems don't know HOW to vote for the candidate they want.

Posted by: Michelle | Apr 23, 2008 5:00:28 PM

Sen. Obama is absolutely correct.

Posted by: Dinero80 | Apr 23, 2008 5:00:41 PM

It's amazing how everyone wants to focus on the popular vote and who has it. The DNC rules say the person with the most delegates wins... period. It also says Michigan and Florida delegates do not count... period. If Hillary tries to BREAK THE RULES, then I guess she wants McCain to win in November !

Posted by: Dave Stir, TX | Apr 23, 2008 5:00:51 PM

Obama's state wins 30 lost 15, Delegate count 1715 +/-, Negatives are way down, Better nominee (The ones that matter he lost)

Clinton's state wins 15 lost 30, Delegate count 1685 +/-, Negatives way up. Not a good nominee. (Won the states where the majority of people live and work hard and represent the true working class dems)

Fund Raising Obama beats Clinton or McCain Expediently. (Goerge Bush did too, bought and paid for)

Registering new voters Obama beats Clinton or McCain. (Repubs and Indep switching sides b/c they know she is the true threat, they will all vote for McCain in the Gen)

Bring the country together Obama beats Clinton or McCain.(What has he brought together? Elite Dems making over $150K and blacks? Both the loudest groups in a caucus)

Overall, Obama beats Clinton or McCain. (How do you figure?)

Race against McCain, Obama better nominee. (How do you figure?)

Ending the War in Iraq, Obama will, Hillary or McCain wont. (He doesn't even have a plan...he was called out on that)

Posted by: Demhypocrisy | Apr 23, 2008 5:01:11 PM

The people of FL and MI did not go out to vote it was just a figment of our imagination, a make believe vote so no need to count these invisible votes, they are not important, you cant claim something that you cant see, they were not counted and they were never registered as votes.

Man this piece of work the call Obama, it will give me the greatest pleasure is voting against him in any GE.

Posted by: SJ | Apr 23, 2008 5:03:20 PM

Lies? Does anybody really believe Barack went to church for 20 years, donated tens and tens of thousands and was unaware of the pastor's sermons?
Who knows. Maybe he has a busted ear drum.

Posted by: liveoak | Apr 23, 2008 5:03:22 PM

By Hillary saying that the Florida and Michigan delegates and votes should count, she is actually helping the party, not hurting it. There are obviously very angry people right now in Michigan and Florida who feel that their votes should count and by dismissing them like Obama has, it only makes them less likely to vote at all or vote for the Democratic nominee when it really counts. Obama knows that if Florida and Michigan counted, he would be losing in popular vote, delegate vote and he would be the loser. Both of their names were on the ballot in Florida- count it. Obama ran ads in the state and now that it turns out that he lost he is using it as an excuse to dismiss them. Talk about unifying the party- if Obama would count all of the people and all of the votes and states, then maybe there really could be a unified party. Nice try Obama but once again you show how much of a double-standard your campaign is.

Posted by: A | Apr 23, 2008 5:03:27 PM

For Wellican
The 10% figure was based on a turnout of 2 million voters and thereby a win of 200,000+ votes.
Since 2.3 million voted, Hillary did not need 10% to reach that threshold. As it turned out she won by about 214,000 votes and so she exceeded the goal.

Posted by: Democrat | Apr 23, 2008 5:04:02 PM

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