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Bill Clinton: Florida, Michigan Penalty "Appropriate"
May 22, 2008 11:30 AM
ABC News' Rick Klein and Sarah Amos Report: Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton on Wednesday flatly rejected a proposal by Sen. Barack Obama to penalize Florida by seating only half of its convention delegates -- despite the fact that former President Bill Clinton and other top Clinton campaign officials have floated that idea as a possible compromise.
In an interview with the St. Petersburg Times, Obama, D-Ill., called the idea of cutting Florida's delegation in half "a very reasonable solution" to the party's stand-off over how to treat a primary contest that was not sanctioned by the Democratic National Committee.
Sen. Clinton dismissed the suggestion, saying she would insist on 100 percent representation for Florida.
"I think that is disingenuous but it's also insulting to the 1.7-million Floridians who actually turned out to vote," Clinton, D-N.Y., said of Obama's proposal, according to the newspaper.
But just last week, Bill Clinton called giving Florida half its delegates -- similar to how the Republican National Committee penalized the state for holding an earlier-than-allowed contest -- an "appropriate penalty."
"The Republican Party said 'OK, we'd like to win Florida in the fall so we are gonna invoke our rule, they got out of turn, we will seat their delegates as half a delegate and seat their superdelegates,' " Clinton said at a campaign event in Missoula, Mon. "That is an appropriate penalty."
Later in the same speech, he pointed out that the same penalty was applied by the GOP to Michigan, which also held a primary earlier than the party allowed.
"The Republican Party knows that John McCain is popular in Michigan and would actually have a chance to win, notwithstanding the fact that it is the most hard-hit state in America, so they did what the rules permit, they are sitting the Michigan delegates as half delegates," he said. "But the Democratic party because -- for a lot of reasons, they decided to destroy the Michigan campaign."
Two weeks ago, Clinton campaign Chairman Terry McAuliffe said on NBC's "Meet the Press" said the campaign "certainly might" agree to a compromise whereby the primary results would be used to award half of the Michigan and Florida’s allotted number of delegates.
McAuliffe, a former DNC chairman, noted that such a penalty would be in accordance with the DNC's own rules.
"The rule is 50 percent," McAuliffe said. "Had they done that, we wouldn't be having this discussion."
Top Clinton adviser Harold Ickes was among the DNC members who voted last year to strip all of Michigan and Florida's delegates, though he has more recently insisted that the delegates be awarded to the two states.
"Both delegations should be seated," Ickes said on a conference call with reporters Thursday. "All delegates should be seated. And all delegates should have a full vote each."
Howard Wolfson, a Clinton spokesman, said Sen. Clinton's statement is accurate: The campaign is insisting that Michigan and Florida receive their full allotments of delegates.
"Our position is pretty clear and consistent," he said. "100 percent."
The Clinton campaign will make its case to seat the full Michigan and Florida delegations May 31, at a DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee meeting in Washington.
Getting full representation for those states is critical to Clinton’s campaign strategy: Seating the delegations in full in accordance with the election results in those states would allow her to make up 71 delegates in her race against Obama, according to ABC's calculations.
It would also change the magic number needed for the nomination.
On the trail of late, Sen. Clinton has asserted that the number of delegates needed to secure the Democratic nod is 2,210 -- the number that assumes full delegate representation for Florida and Michigan. The DNC’s official number -- and the number used by the Obama campaign -- is 2,026.
May 22, 2008 in Bush, George W., Kucinich, Dennis, Tancredo, Tom | Permalink | User Comments (132)
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I find you all very interesting. You have one candidate that has followed the rules, then you have one candidate that moves the markers to advantages them in which ever way they see fit. In the mean time you each tear one another apart fighting over the established rules agreed to by ALL candidates?
Go figure that you would destroy your party to satisfy the candidate you fell in love with. We are in the part of the Primary that you have to step back and refocus to win in November.
Sounds to me as if you are ALL willing to bite off your nose to spite your face.
Do you all ever find UNITY or will you allow McCain to run this Country due to your beliefs?
Posted by: Independent | May 22, 2008 12:44:59 PM
Rules mean nothing if they are changed every time someone does not like them. Clinton is self-serving and basically trying to cheat her way to the nomination. The DNC leadership needs to step up and take charge - as is their job. All these calls to "count the votes" seem just slimy to me. This is a fairness issue, and simply "counting the votes" is not fair as anyone with a conscience can see.
But if you are hellbent on changing the rules, then I alternatively propose we change the rules to make the primaries winner-take-all affairs, change the legal voting age to 60, and allow cats and dogs to vote (their barks and meows need to be heard). In that case, we could REALLY guarantee a Clinton "victory". These alternative rules are just as fair as what Clinton proposed.
Posted by: Brian | May 22, 2008 12:45:09 PM
Could it be that Hillary is maybe thinking about running as an Independent, seriously now, in the General Election? She's adamant in her support of counting all of the delegates and the voters rights in Florida and Michigan. It stands to reason, that because of her tenacity and endurance in this matter, that her actions speak louder than words in support of the American voter. I feel if she runs as an Independent, unlike Liebermann, Hillary would be a very formidable opponent for McCain and Obama. Is there a time restriction on when she would have to apply in order to run as an Independent? It just seems to me that she has an alterior motive here.
Posted by: david in texas | May 22, 2008 12:45:13 PM
By insisting on rewarding those who break the rules, Hilliary is demanding that the voices of the majority of voters who did abide by the rules be taken away. Do we want to join the ranks of third world countries where the ballot boxes are stuffed by the juntas and machine politicians? thus destroying the will of the people who express their choice by the rules in play at the beginning of the contest. If destroying the will of law-abiding voters is Hilliary's idea of how to run the country, then she has proven that she lacks the judgement, good will, respect for America and the basic qualifications required to handle the leadership of the country. In fact, if she persists in making these unreasonable and lawless demands, I think she should be removed from office as a U.S. Senator.
Posted by: Justinteim | May 22, 2008 12:45:48 PM
I am a 43 year old female that started off being torn between someone I thought would be a new change and the first woman president. I definitely at this point do not think this should be Hillary to represent me as a woman. She is setting us back a hundred years. I will cry sexism and say anything to get what I want. Even ask the rules I signed to be broken - this is not about the American votes this is about what I want - when I want it.
Posted by: dwall | May 22, 2008 12:48:10 PM
Just wondering if you are trying to count all the votes in Florida and Michigan how do you count the people who stayed home because they were told the primary would NOT count? Just wondering...
Posted by: Independent | May 22, 2008 12:49:48 PM
Well, the memorial day weekend is here-isn't that the beginning of the summer driving season? Does anyone know when the " Idemand an up or down, are ya with us er agin us, vote on the gas tax holiday" is going to take place? Or was that another false promise from the candidate ready to rule on day one?
Posted by: davie | May 22, 2008 12:50:19 PM
Same way you count all the people who could not attend the causcuses.
Posted by: geevill | May 22, 2008 12:51:09 PM
WHO CARES ABOUT THE POPULAR VOTE??!!!!
Delegates determine nominees, nothing else.
Posted by: Texas Voter | May 22, 2008 12:54:56 PM
I think the DNC needs to have a severe "house cleaning". I think Dean and Pelosi have waaaay to much control and the Super Delegates are a farce! Most of them don't even endorse the way their states voted, so it takes the power out of the American voter. As for Florida and Michigan, they need to rethink their statesmen at the next election....it was their officials that broke the rules and moved up the primary, unfortunately, the good citizens of Michigan and Florida are having to pay the price.
Posted by: david in texas | May 22, 2008 12:55:29 PM
I am trying to understand how you get to where you think you overturn the outcome by disregarding the rules? Take the names away for a minute and explain to me why A or B should get the nod. I could care if this is either candidate. I am looking for education not snipping. Though you all could explain what is going on without the negatives.
As an Independent without a party I am trying to learn.
Posted by: Independent | May 22, 2008 12:56:35 PM
DNC will stand by the rules in place.
HRC will cry foul. Claim to be "standing up for the little guy".
See WILL take this to the floor.
Hillary's negative polling #'s 100%
Posted by: MI VOTER | May 22, 2008 12:57:55 PM
Davie, The gas tax holiday has been written off as an attempt to buy your vote by certain questionable individuals. The Amount you would save would be offset by the price being raised by the oil companys so it wouldnt even amount to a savings. It was all smoke and mirrors, sorry.
Posted by: mitch | May 22, 2008 12:59:05 PM
If she takes it to the convention now, even after May 31st when her own committee seats half the delegates, she will be finished politically as a Democrat, Independent, or Whig, if you prefer.
Posted by: Texas Voter | May 22, 2008 12:59:44 PM
@ Texas Voter......by "house cleaning", its evident that Dean and Pelosi both are out of their element in the DNC. They had the power to end this debate weeks ago, but allowed it to go on. As far as the adjective "moronic" you attacked me with, I will not give credence to your opinion.
Posted by: david in texas | May 22, 2008 1:00:46 PM
Super Delegates came to be so that they could vote for whom ever they thought would be the best candidate. Period.
They do not have to vote according to their state.
If they did, what would be the point?
They were appointed Super Del's best of their experience and Party standing.
Posted by: MI VOTER | May 22, 2008 1:01:09 PM
You keep writing Dean and Pelosi, yet it is the Rules and Bylaws committee that set the... wait for it.... wait for it... RULES!!!!
Who has 15 members in that committee? Yep, you guessed it! CLINTON!!!
Good GOD, just READ!!!!!
Posted by: Texas Voter | May 22, 2008 1:03:34 PM
Why should a few people at the DNC be more influential than over 2 million voters. That is crazy!
Posted by: Luis | May 22, 2008 1:05:09 PM
I guess it is Mrs. Clinton who is running for Pres., not Mr. Clinton.
Hopefully, ABC knows the difference.
Posted by: a new name | May 22, 2008 1:05:38 PM
I find this augments a bit senseless. They ALL agreed not to count MI and FL. They even signed an agreement before the Primary started. So where is the problem the rules committee can seat them as they see fit. I would look for a 50 percent seating. Although you are all disagreeing on something that will NOT matter. They could seat them as voted today and the math doesn't change? Please explain if I am wrong.
Posted by: Independent | May 22, 2008 1:10:14 PM
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