Wow, now that's straight-talk. Politically dumb, I'm guessing, but McCain really put his cards on the table.

In short, he doesn't want to give veterans any benefits that might get them thinking about leaving military service to collect. If we keep sticking it to these guys, the ones that don't have better options will have to stay and fight our dumb Bush wars.

The more I think about this, the more amazed I am. This one could turn into a campaign landscape changer.

And seeing how McCain already signaled his willingness to keep these so-called wars going as long as a hundred years, he's clearly willing to use this argument for short-shifting veteran benefits for the next eight.

According to Obama backed John Kerry people in the military are too uneducated to attend college

Geevill - Obama is a co-sponsor of this new GI Bill, so that line of attack sounds pretty feeble. I suggest you stick to things his pastor said.

Don't learn, die.

Missing the point Obama supporters. This is nothing but a recruitment tool .Doesn't help those already in Iraq.

great article Bill

great article Bill

Did I read Paul's comment correctly? According to Kerry, people in the military are too uneducated to go to College? Whoa.

People go to school to get an education. If they were already educationed, they wouldn't need to go to school.

The Webb bill will return America to its moral heights. Rather than having a mercenary force that fights solely for the money, we'll again have 'citizen soldiers' who fight for love of freedom and the opportunity to build a better America. Rather than just a paycheck for the work, they'll be offered opportunity to become educated, get a good job, raise a family, and earn a decent wage.

The neo-cons despise a non-indentured fighting force. They gnash their teeth at the idea soldiers becoming middle class and possibly taking money from the wealthy. This bill will begin to restore the middle class that is so hated by the authoritarian conservative Republicans.

Kees - that wasn't my comment.

Geevil - the new GI Bill absolutely does something for servicemembers in Iraq now. Despite whatever McCain is thinking, these kids aren't planning on being in Iraq forever. When they get back to the States, I'm sure many would like some assistance going to college.

Remember the original GI Bill was for guys coming back from World War II.

Well....the first mistake in this article is not representing the current GI Bill correctly. I am currently using the GI Bill and I get $1,101 per month if I go to school full time. This amount goes up each year. This more than covers the cost of going to the University of Mary Washington.

So do you think that just because you are in the military you are uneducated?

This bill should be passed - and having Sen. Warner supporting it as well as Sen. Webb is good.

Who really supports the troops? A lot talk to the talk - but not as many are walking the walk. Except the soldiers, Marines and a few good Senators.

Why does nobody notice? McCain's solution for jobs and also for women who get paid less is "more education." Here's a bill to provide that "more education" to a particular class of US citizen and McCain is strongly against it.

(And, of course, many do notice that McCain sees "more education" as impeding the Cheney/Bush/McCain plans for protracted war because it provides exactly what McCain says is needed to attain a better, more competitive job. He doesn't say it outright but he implies it strongly: jobs that require a college degree have advantages over jobs in the military.)

"You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq," Kerry said."

I have worked with former GI's of all the military branches and have the highest respect for the kind of education the military gives them. It doesn't matter what veteran of what war although the veterans of the Gulf war seemed to have more pride in their workmanship and discipline in the workplace than my contemporaries.

Simple enough. Vote against increasing benefits, but make sure you always wear a flag pin. That way, no one can ever accuse you of failing to support the troops.

Problem with this is that Obama's liberal student and professor kick the ROTC off of campuses.

McCain better thoroughly analyze this one and support the troops in every effort possible. With the emphasis on a college degree, the US will not be able to continue to recruit soldiers without increasing this benefit. This is the kind of issue many Hillary supporters are watching you closely about, Senator McCain. Your decision on these matters can help sway your average white female mothers.

Gill - Bill Moyers continues to miss the point, as apparently do you. All three candidates have sought the support of religious leaders, some of whom are idiots part or all of the time, because all three understand that those religious leaders can move people to vote for them. What candidate Obama did by (a) sitting in Rev. Wright's church for all those years, and then exacerbated by (b) lying about 'what he heard when he heard it' was demonstrate his poor understanding of the opinions and beliefs of others. Competant politicians realize they can and will be judged on their behavior, and that they will face a higher bar than the average American thereby - so the circumscribe their actions to win the prize of office. Bad politicians (and other celebrities) complain that the public that watches them is mean and (gasp!)judgemental, claims we never hear when the public is adulatory instead.

If I heard that McCain had been a member of Rev. Hagee's church as long as Obama was a member of Rev. Wright's, I'd be just as mad at him as I am at Obama. Since he wasn't, I am only mildly displeased that he would associate himself with the Rev. Hagee for the sake of those votes.

Paul - I think you may want to pull back on the vitriol towards "neo-cons" - your hypothesizing about their inner thoughts and desires is at best unseemly. I'm a Republican, a veteran of the authoritarian US Marine Corps, and a conservative since I was a teenager - and I assure you that I don't despise anybody willing to serve. Did you do so, or are you hypothesizing there too?

I'm a veteran that used the GI Bill to go to school... Depending on the deal you get the GI Bill pays out different amounts. After I earned my BA (from a state school) I owed 20k in loans.

As for enlisted guys being uneducated... Honestly, most enlisted guys are uneducated. I know I was. It also took me a lot of work to compete with middle/upper class kids. The service didn't really prepare me for scholastic endeavors.

One important point to keep in mind regarding retention... Because we have a volunteer force most of the guys that joined are not college tracked and don't have an interest in going to college. Back in WWII the middle class was more represented because there was a draft. The policy implications of a better GI Bill will likely be minor.

The heck with all the politics. Give them a better GI bill.

I entered the Army in the 60's as a high school drop out. California community college and the GI bill got me to Berkeley and a couple of degrees.

If you want to support the guys who are fighting, skip the politics and support the bill.

db

This is about the stupidest political move McCain could make. Imagine, wanting to deprive GIs of college benefits so that, without job prospects, they’ll be forced to re-enlist for a second term as cannon fodder. This only confirms my belief that McCain is going to lose big time in November -- whoever the Democratic nominee is.

Something to keep in mid: Military education is designed to provide the skills to survive in war. A college education provides the skills and opportuity to survive as a civilian. The origial GI bill allowed my father to become an accountant and do well in life. The people fighting any wars for the United States should have the ability once the fight is over to make a good life for themselves. In doing so they make us all stronger.

There's ole geevill,

Still whining? McCain, a former military man doesn't support military personnel in going to college? Losing his bearings, huh?

Hmmm, he needs em for more war, huh?

This general election is going to be the biggest blowout in a long time.

Suffice to say, the Republican party already knows this.

If McCain took some college courses in critical thinking and management, he could probably tell the difference between Shiites and Sunnis. It would also help to remember what city and state you're in when taking your eyes off of the teleprompter.

I can't wait for the first debate with Obama.

He's going to eloquently tear him into little red republican pieces, and all with a smile on his face.

We wouldn't want to get too many people educated now, Hillary wouldn't have anyone left to vote for her

Victor,

To your point about the dispersal of funds, when I was going to school it was easy to use the GI Bill. When signing up for classes, all regular students had to pay up front, but I was allowed to take the classes without the upfront payment and then the GI Bill payments were made once the classes were over. That to me, was insanely simple.

But there will be LOTS of people trying to justify mccain and bush's position on this...the bottom line is that the LAST thing either of them wants is a well educated fighting force, because they may start realizing there are better opportunities out there than to fight in some idiot's war without end.

Pete

Pete,

It's good to hear that some veterans have had a positive experience receiving GI Bill benefits. But I would venture to say you are the exception and not the norm.

Policies concerning when tuition is due for veterans receiving the GI Bill varies widely and depends on specific university policies.

There are many veterans, including myself, who have had to secure student loans because the GI Bill either wasn't sufficient or payments were not received promptly.

And I am not concerned about them(McCain, GOP) being afraid of a well-educated fighting force. Most veterans don't go to college while still in the service. Those that get out to attend college had planned to attend college from the moment of enlistment.

Victor,

I would agree with your assessment that most who get the GI Bill do so with the a priori intent of using it. Some folks may not realize that the GIs actually have to contribute to the GI Bill benefits, and as an E-nothing at the time, the $100 bucks that my Uncle Sam took out was a non-trivial amount of money and yet. I got a degree out of it in the end.

I'm just mostly ticked that people want to bash the dems while supporting the group that thinks even less of our troops..to me that is a sad indictment of the overall lack of education and critical thinking skills of our common citizens, not the military members.

Good speaking with you though!
Pete

In my generation, many young men joined the services for one primary reason. To stay in for one hitch, then get out and go to college. Many who are now in Iraq were reserves or national guards and have had three tours of duty. Many are older guys with families to support and their incomes have dropped substantially from civilian jobs, many have lost homes and some even need food stamps to get buy.
If America can keep an illegal, immoral war going for years, we should, at least, provide funding for college for our veterans. Many of those returning home will not be able to go back to previous job due to serious injury. If McCain thinks these vets should stay in the service until they are old and gray, that is sad.