Funny how the Iraqi and even Bush policies on Iraq seem to be changing to match Obama's. Seems he was right all along. For people who say liberals are idiots, please explain why you think so. Intelligent debate is good. Mindless name-calling is not.

The best reason for Obama to go to Iraq is to question the commanders there as well as Iraqi officials without being a public spectacle. He may be able to sort out fact from fancy. The level of violence is down. But the cause may be less clear than the American people think.

By questioning them personally he will be able to change the the underlying assumptions upon which conventional wisdom is predicated. The question is will Obamas perspective be changed or maybe will the army leadership have a different perspective if the mission is redefined.

"If Barack Obama believes that visiting Iraq and meeting with commanders will not give him any new perspective, then we can only assume he's going just to smile for the cameras."

sums it up right there =/

is not the senator from Illinois on the the committee for Afghanistan? but has he attended any of the meetings at all?NO No - he has not - strange and creepy

McCain wants to stay in Iraq
without an end in sight.

The Iraqi govt has just stated
that he's not welcome and
should start packing his bags
now.

you poor imbeciles. you can keep on doing the same thing over and over again, but if you don't have judgment and sound mental abilties, as mccain clearly lacks, doing things over and over won't help.

From Leon Panetta's walnut trees to Barack Obama's nuts; from 9-11 to the price of gasoline at the pump; from illegal immigration to the mortgage meltdown; from the Central Coast to the Gold Coast; from Monterey to Abu Dhabi. Don’t ask why; ask instead why not? It’s all politics American style, so lets get the show on the road: http://theseedsof9-11.com

Interesting comments but very little "listening" going on.

Leaders - Listen, consume information then make an informed decision. Obama has the right idea about listening to commanders. True his position may not change but he needs to listen.

If he changes his position people will call him a flip flopper, Why? Because most people have never lead anyone or anything. They mindlessly follow ideology and will follow the leader off the cliff. Sorry folks I guess I'm a true flip flopper, why, because I listened to my non - commissioned officers who gave me good information which allowed me to make the right decision.

Guess we don't expect that from our politicians.

It's interesting that McCain is the one who has spent tens of thousands of tax payer dollars on his macho vacations to Iraq, and yet it's Obama who has foreseen the outcomes right along. One has to wonder what if anything McCain learned at our expense. Awareness, perception, judgment and getting it RIGHT are apparently not accomplished by the mere act of travel because as McCain says, he's traveled a lot----but he always gets it wrong. Last month we had to stay a hundred years and this month he's with Bush that we have to leave. Seems to me that Obama got it right all along. We shouldn't have gone. The Iraqis want us out. We need to be in Afghanistan. Apparently we can leave, since we are. My granny has a lot of frequent flier miles too John, but she's not any better than you are at having the judgment needed to lead this country-----well actually, I do think she could do it better!

randy quotes "If Barack Obama believes that visiting Iraq and meeting with commanders will not give him any new perspective, then we can only assume he's going just to smile for the cameras."

sums it up right there =/
---
IF Obama believes - but he doesn't. He anticipates that he will be getting some perspective on Iraq. So he WON'T just smile for the cameras.

In an interview on 60 minutes with Steve Kroft Super Tuesday, "And you pull out according to that time table, regardless of the situation? Even if there’s serious sectarian violence?" Kroft asked.

"No, I always reserve as commander in chief, the right to assess the situation," Obama replied.

McCain in a 2004 interview said that he would have to respect a sovereign government's wishes if they wanted us out, now he is saying we will that when we think it is safe for us. Tell me now who is the flip flopper. Both of these facts are on the internet, look it up.

McCain is either confused, does not know that much about foreign policy or has a memory problem when people ask him questions and he says the opposite of what he has said before.

So Obama is planning a trip to Iraq but he doesn't plan to develop any perspective out of this. Oh, I forgot, he lacks intellectual depth, he is more of a word processor, and somebody else writes the words. We so look forward to President Axelrod and the Obama Puppet!
=======================================
Obama -- just messing with you, man!!!!
=======================================

The day I see George W McCain driving through Baghdad in a red Cadillac convertible with the top down...not wearing a bulletproof vest and escorted by a hundred troops and ten helicopter gunships...is the day I'll believe a word he says about Iraq.

I lost all respect for McCain when he said Iraq was safe and he then was shown with a flack jacket and body guards surrounding him as he walked the streets of Baghdad. The guy talks about Iraq in his own little fantasy world. It doesn't matter how many times he goes to Iraq...McCain is going to say whatever that fits his idea of what should be happening in Iraq. He shouldn't have wasted the tax payers money going over there because he comes back with inaccurate information anyways.

If Senator Obama wants a true perspective of the safety and security in Iraq, allow him to walk dowm a street for a mile or so (with light security people) in his best presidential pin stripped suit. He could greet and talk to both friendly and unfriendly Iraq citizens. Then he might find out what the "natives" know and think. The US military people will always put any situation in the best light in favor of the USA's side.

Obama is correct. What overall perspective can either candidate learn from a short visit?

It's pretty obvious that McSame doesn't have a clue to what is going on anywhere. If visiting Iraq 8 times makes you some sort of expert on the situation there (aka the McSame machine), then McSame needs to go there about 40 million more times to know half of what Obama knows from his soon to be two visits there.
McSame tries to argue over the dumbest things on his dumb points of view. The only thing this shows is his Bush policies do not match up with Obama's.

Hunn? I am so confused. If it doesnt offer perspective as to what is going on the ground then why is he going? and why did he suggest that he may refine his policy after visiting and talking to the generals? Somebody explain. Or should I wait for Obama to comeback with another statement to clarify this?

Posted by: rachel | Jul 13, 2008 7:19:04 PM
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Rachel - you have to wait for Obama to come back with his "new" take after only a few hours visit. ONLY OBAMA's perspective counts. Remember just weeks ago he only talked on the telephone with the head man from Iraq because it interfered with his campaign speaking engagement. He knows what is more important.

Posted by: Ann
--------------
Rachael and Ann, really, there is no need for your snide remarks. When our politicians visit Iraq and Afghanistan, they are not taken near the fighting zones. They are taken to safe areas where the fighting isn't taking place. Since they do NOT see the "war activities first hand", they really do not get a genuine perspective of the war. McCain said things were fine when he visited Iraq and that General Patreaus was able to drive around in his Humvee without protection, when in fact, the general is well protected. A tape of McCain's visit proved differently, McCain and the General were wearing protective gear, they were accompanied by two SWAT teams and there was a group of helicopters flying overhead. While there was no fighting where they were, those are the areas where suicide bombers can hit unexpectedly. This is what Senator Obama is talking about. The generals there are only allowed to discuss so much with politicians, so they really do not get a good perspective from there either. Is senator Obama going to get a different perspective, maybe, maybe not. I do know one thing, Senator Obama is a very aware and observant of what is going on around him and he does not miss much. Unfortunately, Senator McCain told a BIG Whopper about not needing protection in Bagdad. Doesn't sound like "straight talking" to me. It really amazes me when you and people like yourselves make these crazy predictions, based on what?? I'll tell you, your predictions are based on what you THINK is, and not on facts. Millions upon millions of Americans do not share your cynical views.

Randy said
"is not the senator from Illinois on the the committee for Afghanistan? but has he attended any of the meetings at all?NO No - he has not - strange and creepy"

I just wanted to do a quick fact check for those that believe that Senator Obama is on a Committee on Afghanistan Affairs and has neglected to attend meetings.

First of all, no committee exists in the Senate that only handles the affairs of Afghanistan so that in and of itself is false. Secondly, Senator Obama serves on the Foreign Relations Committee with 18 other senators where Joe Biden is the chairman. If you can find government information on exactly how many committee meetings Obama has been to/missed and compare that to the other members in the group finding that his attendance is significantly less, then some credibility could be granted to the argument that he does not attend meetings regularly enough. Until this person arguing that Senator Obama has been neglectful in his Senatorial duties, such as committee hearing attendance, presents proof of Obama's missed meetings, and a comparable investigation of Senator McCain's committee attendance, that argument simply has no merit. One final point to add is that Senator Obama is the chairman of the Subcommittee of European Affairs. Issues with Afghanistan are sometimes lumped together with the affairs of European countries, but it is not the sole concern of the subcommittee.

My point here is that people need to learn facts before asserting false allegations against someone. This goes for supporters of either candidate.

In the Nevada debate, Obama specifically said that he will get the US out of Iraq by the end of 2009! Just like that, no "refining", no talking to ground commanders! And now he says he is "refining" his Iraq plan, and that he never changed his mind. So, not only is he ridiculousl inexperienced and seems to have learned his foreign policy from playing the board game "battleship", but he has the audacity to lie about his Iraq plan! Why won't the MSM focus on his lies?

Posted by: doublestandard
--------------------------
NO doublestandard here. Refining his plans means just that: to improve, to make better. There are those of you that are quick to pounce before you do any real thinking, you seem to enjoy attacking Senator Obama. I can just see you and your ilk smirking evilly in you quests for "I gotcha". Hilliary and Bill are the King and Queen of lies, distortions, fraud, and slander. And I am guessing you really liked and supported them and now you are going to vote for great grandpa McCain? Have fun, you'll probably be changing his DEPENDS when he is placed in a nursing home in the not too distant future.