Science and Society

I find this to be true that we Americans are losing the value of what life is and soon will lose our freedom. There are countries who are at odds with us and it seems like we do not support out Government no more and always on the other side of the fence. There is no unison anymore within the United States. We are ruined with greed and freedom. We must get back to the basics, christianity and supporting our Government and having respect for one another. Our children don't even respect us anymore in many households. I pray for United States and its inhabitants.

China could never stand a chance in an armed conflict with the United States.

If we think about military and economic threat against U.S. and westerna allies, it may be unthinkable to differentiate between the two. On military prowess, China appears to be expanding its military based on new technology acquired from advance countries perhaps from stolen secrets or through cooperation of another great powers but there is no concrete evidence yet to prove it can surpass US and western allies technology in direct non-conventional military confrontation. Two decades ago, military analyses concluded China is building its military by quantity and not by quality; it is remain to be seen. As far as what Michael Johnson devulged about China's economic diversity, this is something that the world should be aware of.

The next time you shop at WAL*MART count how many produts are made in America and how many made in China. If you use all of your fingers to count American I'd be surprised while you'll probably run out of digits on your calculator. What does this tell you about our national security? Think about it.

I was talking about counting Chinese goods on the calculator.

China wouldn't stand a chance against

the USA ?? Uh, China is slightly larger

than Iraq. And united . And powerful.

I think that the world is very lucky that I am not the President of the United States, for I would make some sweeping changes throughout the planet in a manner that would be very unpleasant for our enemies. You would not have to fear for our future. We would own the world, and after I erraticate the evil of the middle and far east, then the next country or organization who wants to pick up a weapon against a country which respects the priciple of human decency would understand that it would not be a very bright idea. Unless your understanding of the word bright includes the vision of a mushroom cloud in your field of view. I know this sounds harsh and insane, but humanity is headed for a bitter end unless it cleans up its act. Shame on all of us.

You'd be VERY wrong about that Ben. First think about how poor we are doing fighting in Iraq. Then ask yourself what kind of war we would fight with China. Nuclear? No. We'd have them outbombed, but a nuclear war on that scale is one that would destroy us. Air-war? No again. Attacking China with planes would be more futile than them attacking us. Our countries are too big, targets too spread out and diverse, and their army is much larger. More importantly their population vastly outnumbers ours so they can keep supplying soldiers and rebuilding armaments. Naval? No there too. We have the larger and superior Navy, but you can't wage a naval war - we'd still have to battle on the other fronts where we couldn't win. Land war? No, because we'd lose, and this is also the thing that would hit us hardest in any other (non-nuclear) war with China. Their population is so vast that they could supply ground troops to outnumber us 20-1, and rebuild and resupply their lines. On their land, a ground war would see us slaughtered. On our land we'd be in for the fight of our lives and after great losses on both sides our only hope for survival would be their difficulties in moving troops.

Heaven help us if we continue to grow more unpopular in the world. Other countries would join in such a war. If the join our side we might not be destroyed. If they join together, especially with China, we'd be crushed. Imagine China, the middle-eastern countries, and south america joining and moving troops up through Mexico. The best we could do is try and defend our border, but we couldn't for long.

Brown, taking up arms against the world WOULD make us fear for our future. We are a strong nation true, but we do not have the power to defeat the world. Plus, the world would not support us. Instead, they would rally against us. Odds are, we would become a third world country, divided into 4 parts by other countries...just like the last country that tried to "own the world." btw, eradicate, principle

On our economy and our military might never say never concerning World History. China just may surpass us someday with the arrogance we seem to have.

A crucial step to resolving the fears expressed in the above comments is for our country to reinvest in its manufacturing base. This is what creates our dependence on China. We cannot continue to outsource this crucial component to our economy--it is fundamental to our strategic and economic independence. And the problem is too complex to simply hope the problem can be solved by encouraging American consumers and industry to "buy American"--there are things that are simply no longer manufactured in the United States because of the free trade agreements. We as a people must actively stimulate our Congress to put forth economic legislation to make profitable again manufacturing in the United States and to make unprofitable outsourcing and deficit trade with China--legislation on the same order of magnitude as the legislation which allowed the United States to emerge from the Great Depression. We see what is happening and we know the nature of the problem. It is time to fix it. It is time for change.

Is that Calculator made in China????
I would not expect it to work correctly or at all for long.

Hmmmm as i sit here and listen to all u wonderful people with dif options. I say to my self aleast most of u have good views like me.Thats why its sooo imporant to join together to take back are country from lying crooks that are running the show today.

Thnaks for the infor, but as our counrty stand we have contributed to this to happen by making sure we purchased to other countires soon the doors will be closed on us if we have a famine.

Yes as I said before America is no longer going to be a good place to live, then what's next? Is my question if we are invaded again?

QUOTE "China could never stand a chance in an armed conflict with the United States." BRILLIANT! Nobody stands a chance if nukes are involved. We can't even beat Iraq because we've lost the ability to fight a war the way wars need to be fought. If your dumb enough to go to war at least be smart enough to win it. P.S. Maybe as cheap Americans we should stop buying junk from China and get back to manufacturing our own junk. We are going to nickel and dime them right to #1 super power status!

I think most Americans love peace. but American gov. they anxious about safety of themself.
chian's still is developing country. need in peace circumstance so it still slight increase their army. we need peace and safety. we didn't want an other iraq.

I can look at a picture of our home on Google Earth, too. It shows remarkable detail... from about five years ago! I wonder how old the picture of the submarine is!

The way China is so concerned about phoney product productions, why should they be concerned about the quality of Subs that break down in the water?!

Did anyone consider that China might not be considering the United States a target? They do border a dozen of the world's most dangerous and least stable places, not the least of which being North Korea (and we know what they can be like).

Everyone is assuming that, since the Soviets under Stalin wanted to take over the world (or at least half of Europe), that everyone else might be planning the same. That might be a little bit paranoid.

Reality is that China considers the United States to be a huge business partner. Why would they want to shoot at the States? There's no motive.

China's primary goal is regional supremacy - and it is expanding its military to counter South Korea and Japan. Presumably, the nuclear deterrant would be to keep the US at bay in the possible scenario of a Chinese move against Taiwan.

About a decade or so ago China compiled a report on how to become a world super power. One of their biggest topics was how the US was in fact, not a declining super power and no configuration of any world super powers could stand against them. Thats why the remain neutral on issues like Iraq. And anyone who says we are a weak military based on Iraq get a clue, please. When we swept across their country with entire battalions of tanks and the full force of our army, it was like the enemy wasn't even there. We are trying to rebuild, not level, thats why we still have insurgents.

We do need to go back to the basics. Nothing is a secret anymore. The media has told everything about the United States. Even our own government ratted out a CIA agent. The CIA is suppose to be a secret. We have taken our laws and exploited them for too long now. The Freedom of Speech was so people can voice there opinions but not to exploit every case sensitive material.

It seems crazy to me in for all the democratic governments to bang on about the global village e.g. free trading with all countries of the world, this ultimately has led us into a situation where we no longer manufacture anything as china can pay its workers a few $$ a day, they have no health insurance no union and no pensions to pay into. Obviously we in the west can never compete with this as our countries are far more expensive to live in. As a direct consequence of this china has found a new impressive financial might this in turn funds a new military might. Surely for our own security wouldn't it make more sense for us to cap or tax Chinese imports ,many of which are based on western designs that have been reversed engineered.

Hey, can we PLEASE bring these comments BACK in line? This is a SCIENCE and TECHNOLOGY blog NOT NOT NOT the World Political Viewpoint blog, for goodness sakes!!!

I'm sure Ned blogged about this not to get our very differing political views but rather that we comment on the surprising LEAP in what has become "common" (for lack of a better word) access to once super-secret stuff -- namely, satellite surveilance and information/intelligence distribution!

THink about it, Google Earth takes pictures using an OLD "Keyhole" satellite -- the U.S. military's former TOP "spy bird." Now it's in the hands of a commercial entity such as Google. And, as commentator rmberryman said, the (Google Earth) photos show amazing amounts of details! (I found my own home on Google Earth too, and guess the photo was taken about 10 years ago, when I was doing construction on my house!)

This kind of technology in "commercial" hands is impressive. But, as we've been hearing of late, it raises MANY issues.

Privacy, "intelligence" and "counter-intelligence (along the lines of helping "bad guys" scope out potential targets or, as the case with the Chinese sub, make it harder for nations to "keep secrets"), freedom of information, etc.

Also, you gotta stop and wonder... If this kind of detailed imagery is what "declassified," former military-grade "Keyhole" satellites are capable of.... Can you just IMAGINE what CURRENT generation, still-classified and under military- government-control, "spy satellites" are capable of TODAY?

I find it hard to believe that China does not know when our or commercial satelites are passing over their country. Me being former military know first hand that our military was aware of SATTRAN hours during the day. This is when the Russian satilites were passing over our base. During this time we would not conduct any movement or manuevers. So I find it hard to believe that they (China) were unaware of the satilite. Especially Google Earth. Either they (China) wants us to see this or it is a farce from our press to make sure that we still have a bad guy on our list to always keep us on our toes.

The Chinese are slowing but surely trying to overtake us. Look at all the recalls from products that are made in China. Dog food, catfish, and even toys.

It's interesting to read into all this from an outsider. Thoses that figure the US has enough stopping power would be correct from the nuke stand point, however the one poster above is correct if the USA took action against china via nukes they would find most likley an equal attack on US soil. such a war would leave both thoses contries in chaos and destroyed. As for troops and the likes China does have a larger army and bring the worlds largest exporter it would not cross my mind that they would be better equipped. Most our world reasources are exported there which gives them the campacity to expand rather quickly if they have not already done so. The other issue as mentioned above is that the USA has been putting itself into a bad position with the rest of the world and alot of doors are getting closed because of what the govement there is doing. Unless the US pulls itself back together things there will get worse and freedom will be limited. Look at it now, with all the security and issues you can not go anywhere with out them knowing, your privacy is owned by your goverment. Whats next chips for all of you? or people watching people... starting to sound like the interests of the US are not of the people but of the people running the people :)

These are just my thoughts from outside the box.

Yep, Google Earth is using some older satellite imagery. I should hope the government's info is better. But, you never know. If someone would have told me six years ago that we lacked the technological prowess and capability to find Osama Bin Laden, I never would have believed them.

China would not dare confront the Western World militarily at this time and not with the current military armmament in their inventory which are still rudimentary by Western standards. Yet China, I think, has the capacity, the desire and the will to dominate the world in some other ways --- the economy as a start, population next and technology last. They have already started and found some success in phase 1. The Chinese are pragmatic, they are here for the long haul. Keep an eye out for the next two as the gears are already turning!

Unbelievable how many crazy warmongers are out there. No surprise thagt China is building ONE sub to counter our thousands of nukes and our 10:1 military spending advantage. I'd be worried about our empire building if I were them, too

Interesting technology.....

Right way to look at China and Russia:

Russia is an economic "competitor" and not a military competitor. Look at sales to Iran/Iraq pre-war and Putin pushing Russian radar for the missile defense of Europe.

China is a "supplier" to the US (their largest customer) and as such China would fall apart economically if a war developed. They are taking the US product quality rejections very seriously with some of the guilty getting "death" sentences.

Both of these economic relationships are healthy and are benefits of globalization.

Can you blame them? After all we believe in "pre-emptive" strikes based on bad intelligence. Our president is an idiot and a liar and cannot be trusted to even protect our own CIA agents.
How many subs do we have that will do the same thing? In a way maybe they feel like this is sort of their version of the second amendment.

The other thing that no one has mentioned is that China holds a huge amount of our notes. We have borrowed heavily for the debacle in Iraq, and it has been largely from China.

China does not have to attack the US - they ALREADY OWN US economically.

And for all those smokestack chasers who want to put manufacturing back in America... Sorry folks, the genie is out of the bottle, and it isn't ever going to go back in. We have to live with the situation and figure out how to make it work for ALL of us, and not just the top 1% as it does now.

China could never stand a chance in an armed conflict with the United States, huh? Ever read "Sixth Column"?

em...I`m chinese...I think China won`t fight with America because everyone loves peace.We don`t expect another Iraq.And the ruthless of the war is so terrible...So,try your best to make the peace...thanks.

Before the panic continues...does anyone know the date of the photo? Many Satellite images are years old...

Well, American Govt. is so dreadful of and nervous about any insignificantly apparent "threats". I think it's time for American Govt. to calm their minds and rethink what they really should do internally to pacify their people, instead of bring them terrorists and so-called freedom, because let history be our guide - "Those who live by the sword die by the sword". Where is America's religion - In God We trust? I'm wondering by what you people live. God bless America!!!

If we ever had to go to war with China, we would also be at war with North Korea as well and maybe even Russia. we would destry one another.

Note from Ned--

In answer to the question from Shel and others, we're told the image is from late last year. See more detail in Hans Kristensen's blog, to which I linked above. Thanks.

I do not believe that we would ever have a war with China. I do not see how they are an enemy, I do not see how anyone else would see them as an enemy and I do not think they view the US as an enemy. However with the current occupants of the White House and with the very paranoid and nationalistic American Neo-con movement being what it is I can not blame them for creating a strong military. Do people think that for some reason only the US is entitled to have a powerful military? And that other nations should just submit to the US and not develop the means to defend their sovereignty? Why should China having a strong military be a threat to the US?

Stop buying Chinese goods and products - that only funds this military effort!

If we could fight the "war" in Iraq as a united country, not as Democrats vs. Republicans we would have finished up a long time ago. The Dems needed a wedge to push between the sitting Republicans and the people of the U.S. and found it in Iraq. What is being done is needed, and to run now shows the whole world that we are not truly the "United States". If we lose in Iraq, and in a few years lose in Los Angeles, we have no one to blame but ourselves

Arms race is an issues that is spreading among countries around the world. In the minds of many leaders and politicians, a growing belief among them is "if the big nations can have arms, why can't we the smaller countries have too?" Sadly, this saying is gaining huge support among citizens of many countries. Should there be a ban on arms? Will the big and small countries sign up to this ban? What role should each citizen play to put an end to this dangerous arms race?

This is not a good thing - what is happening to mankind? What other surprises are out there..

Sean, The reason why China’s having a strong military is regarded a threat to the US: They point their weapons at us. They use UN treaty to oppose all acts of US sovereignty, while emboldening their own. They rig foreign currency markets to deflate the capital value of American dollars. They dump excess production capacity into American industrial markets. They participate in government-backed piracy of American goods, technology, and medical science. They fund paramilitary enterprises and they supply military secrets to rouge states including nuclear technology. They participate in war games simulating invasions of US territories. They manipulate oil markets to benefit themselves financially by creating false-shortfalls. And best of all: they fund anti-American parties and candidates, who are running for office in the US. But you don’t see how they are an enemy? –you’re either blind or telling lies.

chris, i can't believe that statement - 'ruined by ... freedom.' that is the most ridiculous thing i have read all day. freedom is what we are all about. that includes the freedom to disagree. if you want unison, become a communist or live under tyranny. obviously, you don't understand what freedom is.

Ever heard of the 1,000,000 man army? Well...you have now...China.

The Billarys made sure China got many of our nuclear secrets...still carrying out their 60's agenda. I wonder if Madam Hillary will get a taste of their love if she becomes Pres.

Nickdaytona, Competitors, yes; enemies no.
Everything you mentioned, the US has done the same or similar things to boost this country at the expense of others, China included. You think the US is not pointing weapons at China or playing war games envisioning China? Please. I'm sure the US is has been way ahead of the Chinese in that respect. So why shouldn't they do the same? And China does not use its UN veto to oppose US SOVEREIGNTY but US HEGEMONY over the rest of the world. I have no doubt that China, like the US, (and Russia for that matter) will do what ever it can to be a if not the leading economic and political power in the world. I do not however believe for an instant that they would look to use war to achieve it.

I find this amazing. Google Earth is making the world a smaller place. Don't you guys stand in awe of technology? Now the world is open for observation, no one can hide, no one can run. If you are guilty of something you will be caught...well that's a promise for the future coming true. This technology isn't only used for war, it's used to police war, for making life better, for protecting life, for finding people lost in the wild, for tracking criminals and forest fires and bizarre weather!
To R.Brown: Please learn to spell before becoming a World Leader.

Folks, "Wake up and smell the coffee"
Wars are started from a large precent by economics. And as we all know, China is growing very fast,and we have seen what has happen in the market when China takes a dive. Enegery is a big player in war as well, we saw it in world war II and in the first war. If China decides to go to war with us, it well be because of there hungry for Engery and Economic greed. And lets do not forget how many crooked politicians and Big company players are running this country into the ground. As for Russia, they are currently building a major oil line to China near one of there main Naval bases, so please don't think that Russia is not a threat.China is not stupid, they are not going to start a war without strong allies and make the US economy weak. There well, be a war with China, but not now. I believe it well be 4 or 5 years from now. You can thank are GOV for selling us out.

To the first Chris, you are right.

To Ron who posted at 4:57:20 AM, you are also right.

I spend a lot of time in China and I know that the Chinese do not want to make trouble for or get trouble from the US. It's funny that no one seems to mind that the US currently DOES many of the things people claim China MAY do: trivializes/removes civil rights, produces poison food products, produces sub-standard products by using cheap labor, constrains the media, and LIES to the people.

to say china would stand no chance is completely absurd....and you are an idiot...don't forget that they are communist and so are there "friends-neighbors"...and GOD forbid Russia, and N. Korea...

I'm an outsider in all this. To read the comments here is at the same time both reassuring and frightening. Some of you have your heads on straight, but others (and it seems your government is composed if these) seem to be in such a heightened state of paranoia that you come across as mentally unstable. The world is frightened of America, yes, but not because you're like the big kid who bullied people at school, but rather because you're like that little, crazy, unpredictable kid who could flip at any moment and bite your fingers off. I know who I always saw as more of a threat...

The United States will lose it's standing as the sole superpower. However, it will only happen if we keep following these evangelical christians. Pres. Bush is an example of one. We need to recognize that this fundemantalist religion is destroying our country. We need to stop getting into expensive wars. I hope that the next president can be more open minded about all of this. Or Else.

I am a chinese.We chinese people do not like war.We like peace.Please do not doubt about that.

Wisdom and true Intellect has failed the current Ideas and Leadership in this country. For those who do not see this they have a veil over their eyes. They have watched to much television, hero movies and seen to many Super Hero cartoons. They have been fooled into believing that this country can annihilate
anyone on the planet, well that is not fully true. Most of these unwise and non-intellectuals have spread this type of thinking, as evidenced by, the majority of the blogs before mine. This has become a sickness, similar to a "Mental Illness"! It was again evidenced back in Nazi-Germany during Hitler's time. "Live by the sword, die by the sword'. Due to the lack of spiritual development this country has elapsed into a period of "Big Talk" and carrying a "Large Stick". This can now be seen by Fred Thompson who starred in the movie "Walking Tall" years ago. Guess what? He is about to enter the Election for the "Big Seat". This is a sad commentary for the state of the union. Pardon me! What union? The war is actually going on here. Moral division (do anything, it goes), only whites in 98% of top jobs, and you say its true, they complain! This behavior can not last its self destructive. Evidenced by all of the Hollywood Children the one's the money is being handed down too, are not mentally or spiritually prepared to handle it. Even the son of "Mr. Global Warming" is driving around at 100 mph with dope in his car, crazy, not smart, not to intellectual. This proves we need change in our Leadership, and not anyone affiliated with the past, in an effort , to maintain "Status Quo". We do not need to start any new problems with any country, especially China. May these people see, and change their ignorant , imperialistic, and self-loathing behavior. Probably not!

Greed is america's terminal illness.

Yes, thats good, thats the way it should be. The only method to avoiding any nation including the US to attacking Beijang or Shanghai is the certain knowledges of retailiation in return!

PRC has no iraq,dont be surprised if another satellite busted from space!

America has WMD to protect themselves from enemies. Same way other countries are building military to protect themselves from America. After, creating false case of WMD in Iraq, have full control of UN and installing military equipments near Middle East and eastern countries, I think every country fears about EU/US invasion. At the end it will come down to Chicken and Egg store because US will not cut down its military expansion and others will try to match or come close to US’s military capacity.

That is funny that this picture is getting so much attention. What about this picture? This was taken by some brave soul. You can see everything you need to see from this picture, not just some fuzzy view.

This isn't surprising, especially since any society which is industrializing at the rapid pace which China is will also be augmenting its military weaponry and strength. The 21st century will, I think, be one of China exercising its might in its economy as well as its military.

Let's pray that China does not arm with North Korea - the largest army in the world! China helped North Vietnam with financial aid during that war. The communist ones always stick together.

I don't see that there will ever an all-out war happen between the US of A and China. In another 15 and 20 years, hispanics will make up a majority of the US of A's population. It would be interesting to see the future relations between the US of A and Europe. Will EU continue to be in bed with the US of A if the majority of the US of A is hispanics? I don't know if China can make it to the status of superpower but EU is definitely on its way to become a superpower of this century.

Is this photo an updated one? Too many times I view on mainland China's military photo and sadly, most of them are outdated, like their J-10 fighter which most of the time I saw is either fake or outdated.

Anyway, for a nation like China who got missile and submarine building capability, I'm not surprise they can build a newer submarine and also another one of this so-called new class of submarine.

However, although they may or may not got the new submarine operational. But China is far from possess any capability of mass-production like U.S. and former Soviet Union.

As a chinese who lives in Malaysia, I too will a bit more practical when comes to military spendings. China is a nation which is growing fast and as a result, the military side will definately be modernise as well. History has shown that since the ancient time, great economy powers got their modern military forces.

Let's reconsider this, if you are a nation's leader which your country's economy is growing fast, will you modernise your army in the process? No? I doubt so.

Although I may not an military expert nor a goverment personnel. But just like nuclear power, it's not how much you possess but how responsible you'll use it.

Please don't worry, this weapon is just prepared for the Martian. Nobody dare use it on earth first, so I believe there will be a long peace time. BTW, I'm chinese:)

you yanks better check some of the facts where been told by or researched on your own.

anyway back on topic, china and US, first of all econimically speaking it makes absoulte no sense for china to make a pre emptive strike on the US, firstly because it will devastate their own economy. Secondly, there is still a wide belief the convensional chinese military might struggle to take on the americans. The chinese miltary build up is mainly centered on regional interests, and because the us seem to have its nose in everything, regional issues such as japan and tawain indirectly affects the us.

culturely and historically, chinese have always been defensive over their land, and hardly ever proactively engage in conflict or war to "invade" except the grey periods of khan who is mongolian.

regliously, confuious and buddish strongly oppose war, hey they weren't even suppose to hurt a fly

I don't blame the Chinese, they are like us in many ways. They have the right to be strong. The only people I blame are the stupid hollywood actors and singers that don't support our government and always oppose anything the U.S. does. These actors and singers influence the young and naive. What I find to be amusing is most of Hollywood has no real education.

I see many paranoid warmongers who believe war is inevitable. First, China and US have no reason to fight. China will not attack Taiwan because they wound be destroying their own country. They will join together but it is a slow process. US would not choose to defend Taiwan because it would not be worth the price. China can destroy GPS satellites and aircraft carriers. US carriers are mostly for use against lesser military. China is now a one party state based on market economy. Communism died over 30 yrs ago. That explains the rapid industrialization and the rise of millions out of poverty. With increased wealth comes better military. Those people who say China only make junk have never visited China. I have never seen so much mega projects of such complexity going up so quickly on such a grand scale anywhere. The Pentagon is alarmed because they do not think it is junk. Nearly every US president get us into a war whereas China have few if any troops abroad. The competition will be in the economic sphere where cross ownership and trade is more conducive to peace than war. The giant that was sleeping has suddenly awoken. Get use to it.