Science and Society

Hey Royce - excellent comment! I'd also like to see these try to remove the leather boots of any blue-collar working man or a cross-country trucker. The animal rights activists are nothing more than cowards with a phony cause.

wow... while i don't condemn violence of any kind (and flooding a person's house is violent), i certainly do not support the use of these innocent creatures for these types of experiments... people are falsly led into believing that society will benefit... believe me, any benefit is short term... what is truly needed is to support young people from birth on so as they turn into adults they don't choose to numb their pain with drugs of any kind... of course, that is too 'radical' an idea (transforming society into a healing based community), so instead, vivisectors make millions on this industry that takes these innocent, intelligent, and wild creatures and enslaves them physically and mentally... how detached we have become from nature and our fellow beings on this planet

So, how many innocent field mice, anole lizards, and who knows what other small furries or reptillians did the ALF dolts drown in this ill-conceived prank? Probably the act of a twelve-year-old neighbor recruited by PETA.

These extreme activists are similar to anti-abortionists.... who kill doctors. Aren't they against killing. These extreme animal rights activists are torturing these professors. Well people are animals too? Where do they draw the line?

(only partially joking)

It's disgusting that terrorists such as these (and make no mistake - they are terrorists) believe that they can intimidate everyone to agree with their naive and shallow "moral" views by committing wanton acts of destruction. What's even more repellent is those who apologize for or strive to empathize with these juvenile thugs. The welfare of animals in scientific research is a very important value which must be considered at every stage of experimental design. I hold a degree in neurophysiology and have worked in a primate research facility. While I hold the animals in great affection this does not blind me to the realities of life. There are circumstances in which animal testing is a must. Uneducated, violent radicals cannot be permitted to overrule rational and well-informed scientific debate concerning experimental protocols.

I won't comment on the use of primates in drug studies. I will, however, address the use of leather for boots, etc. Those animals were killed for food, not their hides. The hides are being used in a "recycle" manner, and there's nothing wrong in that. The use of other kinds of leather, i.e., ostrich, etc., can be safely condemned, because their use is strictly for the sake of vanity.

Mike and Sam - very good points. I totally agree with both. This research is necessary and although I don't like it either (use of animals), it could ultimately save the life of my loved ones or myself.

I wonder what or who is "financing" these "studies". Look, I don't think there is any valid excuse for "physical retaliation" on the professor, but I certainally do NOT agree with this type of "research". Hogwash. I believe that the American Indian had the right idea. RESPECT animals, use only what is absolutely necessary (as in how they used the Buffalo) It was only when the "white" man decided it was great "sport" to hunt Buffalo that things went to crap. Nobody "needs" $500.00 ostrach "boots" and this so called "research" is NOT the only way to study the affects of drugs on the human brain. Cruelty is Cruelty. It doesn't matter HOW you "rationalize" what you are doing to another creature in the name of "humanity" or "research". Garbage! There should be laws passed against this type of stuff but people should not try to "retaliate" because then they become no better than the "offender".

Royce ur right...if ur gonna attack someone for wearing fur or experimenting with animals then attack everyone else too no matter who they are.

Well I don't condone the use of animal testing, but I can understand it's Potential benifits. I also have a little problem about how animal activists choose the animals they fight for. For instance, gorrilas and monkeys are high on there list. Yet any roach, ant, mouse, rat, spider, other creepy crawley that gets into your house are slaughtered by the billions each day. No one cares about them. And you can't use the argument that they are dirty and carry diseases. The same can be said about any animal. Hell, WE carry diseases. And besides, those animals are clean, to their standards, and we lived with them as they are for milenia. This sterile environment that we live in today is new. Fight for them all, not just the cute and cuddly ones, and do it legally, not by fires, or flooding one's home.

I agree with Lawrence. The so call animal rights activists are biases to specific animals. I'm not an advocate of cruelty to animals but I do support their use for science. However, the real issue is priorities. The whole animal rights activist movement is way on the bottom of my list of important issues. I mean what about the big issues like education and health care? If these people put the energy into the things that really matter first, we can all make the world a better place. The extremists need to re-evaluate their priorities.

Mel, you are right in questioning the source of the funding for London's research. It was recently revealed that it is being funded by tobacco giant Phillip Morris. Imagine that? Phillip Morris funding addiction research? Haven't we been victimized by this kind of scam in the past? Wasn't it the tobacco industry that swore on a stack of bibles that tobacco was not addicting? UCLA and London should both be ashamed.

Mr. Potter:

I follow your reporting with interest. You're a good writer with integrity.
This story, however, shocked me. There is a great bias in this piece, both morally and scientifically.

You begin with framing: "An innocent professor, attacked by dangerous extremists." You continue with language, sentence structure and ideas that assume and profess this theme. This contextualization is overt and bizarre.

In moral reasoning, many will find it reasonable to be upset at a flooded living room (whether or not it is a Beverly Hills mansion). However, in so focusing, you miss the more important point: the whole of moral reasoning condemns what London has done to primates as utterly cruel and inexcusable.

Most regrettable, Mr. Potter, is your misuse of science. As you know, scientific understanding and methods are being refined at a rapid pace. One way we are overturning previous thinking is with non-humans: a blossoming body of evidence indicates that non-human animals are ineffective models for human disease -- using them may even be dangerous.

A well-respected book by Drs. Greek, "Sacred Cows and Golden Geese," supplies compelling evidence that:
1) Undue reliance on non-human animal models has retarded the growth of scientific understanding; and,
2) By continuing to rely on an out-dated model, humans lose billions of dollars and thousands of lives every year

I appreciate your reporting. In the future, please craft your stories without sloppy quotation from biased sources. Please also consider learning more about the scientific merits of vivisection.

Edythe London should watch "Earthlings" and "Behind the mask". May your heart someday include compassion, good luck in life.

Andy,

You have a good point about the hides of food animals, but when you take exception to the use of ostrich hide you make a fairly common mistake; that the meat isn't used. I have had ostrich several times and, while it isn't my favorite bird meat, it is still pretty tasty. Certain snake skins also come from "donors" whose flesh is consumed.

Just thought you'd like to know.

Thanks, Walker. I realized that right after I posted. Rattlesnake meat can be bought in the grocery store. Not sure about ostrich meat, but I knew it was edible. I would imagine, though, that the Naugas took quite a hit when their hides became fodder for the furniture and auto upholstery industries. :-))

I agree with the ALF. They are not terrorists. They are protesting. One thing we need to think about is WHY is this methodolgy considered acceptable, appropriate, ethical and/or "legal"? Hey ALF..if you are out there reading this...you might want to go after UCLA..they set the research policies. I hope the ALF does more actions like this. ALso, please rescue these poor animals. GOD BLESS ALF.