Science and Society

One simple question. How did mammals manage to survive while they waited for the complex design of procreation to "evolve". Global warming people are saying that mammal species are now dying out because they can't evolve fast enough to cope with the 1/4 degree increase in temperature, but somehow they managed the other.

I can't believe we're still having this "debate" in 21st century USA. We've become the laughing stock of other advanced nations. :(

@Jerry Nendel:

We are the advanced nation.

That comment was meant for Realist.

I suppose that intelligent design included creatures so diverse to give the illusion of evolution. That a four legged fish was in fact created by god and we have misinterpreted it as the missing link between the water and land.
However, how can people be so brazen as to debate evolution? No one questions the origin of gravity or why the earth circles the sun, why debate something that so convincingly coincides with what science has already observed?

Jerry - A. The fossil record shows that mammals are relative latecomers to the Earth, and that they descended from earlier animals with different forms of procreation (egg-laying reptiles, etc.). B. 99.99% of all species that have ever lived on Earth are extinct. Some species will survive climate changes (or other environmental factors) relatively intact, some will die out completely, and some will evolve over time into different species. This is how evolution works.

We came from monkeys. LOL Whoever believes that must have the intellect of monkeys, so maybe they just evolved.

As long as everyone agrees that Jesus spoke English, the evolution argument means absolutely nothing.

People that would laugh at a 12 year old that still believes in Santa or the Tooth Fairy still try to tell us that an imaginary being created the universe. Rather ridiculous, is it not?

The religious right was the last to be dragged onboard "the world is round" bandwagon. They'll get it someday.

Ned, you should get ABC to change the headline on the main page. "Pro-Evolution Argument Gets Stronger" implies that this is something new. It's nice to keep getting new examples of evolution, but it hardly changes the fact that the scientific evidence for evolution has been "Overwhelming and Compelling" for more than a century.

If we evolved from monkeys, then why are there still monkeys??
If I am wrong for believing in God, oh well. If the atheists are wrong, well, Hell.

Sad that people still believe in evolution. It's a scientific community that is desperate to prove that it is still in control and that absolutely everything can be proved by experimentation. As a student of science and a student of the Bible, I see absolutely no reason why true science and religion don't harmonize. It's those so-called 'creationists' who advocate the Earth was created in six, literal, 24 hour days that do much discredit to people who believe in creation. Yes, evolution in general is indisputable, since germs and viruses evolve and so forth. But human evolution? Impossible. Impossible to the nth degree.

Here's what I don't understand about this whole debate. Why would you want Creationism taught in a SCIENCE classroom? What's scientific about it? There's nothing wrong with religion (necessarily), and as that excerpt points out, many scientists and proponents of evolution are deeply religious. But religion and science are still discrete issues and belong in separate classrooms. If you MUST give your child the counterpoint, then teach them at home or send them to private school. Religion has no place in public education. There wouldn't be time to teach them all!

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." Genesis 1:1

According to creationism, the bible indicates that the earth is only 6000 years old. I suppose we having mass halucinations of those million year old dinosaur bones in our museums.

The only reason we are still having any debate over evolution vs. creationism is because of a bunch of religious kooks who refuse to accept scientifically based research and findings over what they read in a book that was written about 2000 years ago when people believed (among other now discredited beliefs) that the earth was flat.

Any educational institution that is serious about providing a quality, fact based education to it's students should not allow anything to do with creationism into it's science classrooms.

God created the heavens & the earth ... and man ... Period ...

Evolution does NOT claim that we evolved from monkeys. It claims that humans and other primates may have had a common ancestor.

Human evolution impossible?

First off, we know the process is occuring in mankind...
h

Debate over. Humanity mutates. Thus, Humanity evolves.
All part of the Creator's plan. :-)

It is always interesting to me, that I am considered a kook, for believing in God. But, the evolutionists are considered "sane", for their beliefs.
Do you really believe that the earth and everything on it (including man), just developed as a coincidence? That it all happened just by chance? What are the odds of that happening? ASTRONOMICAL!!

No one has ever said that humans evolved from monkeys. Boy, this one's getting old... Go grab and read a science text then maybe you won't sound quite so ignorant when trying to argue your side.

The matter is far from settled. Evidence for a created, young earth is also mounting rapidly from Astronomy, Geology, Genetics, Physics and other fields. Both sides of the debate have the same facts to deal with and are both left with difficult questions. This booklet speaks of Evolution as if there were no difficulties, comparing Evolution to something so observable as Gravity. It also speaks of Evolution and Natural Selection as synonymous, but can Evolution explain such difficulties as the sheer number of unlikely beneficial mutations required to form a single anatomical addition? Ultimately, either side is left with evidence, observations, and preconceived ideas. Each side must answer this plain question: "Were you there?" Frankly, I'm disappointed with the NAS.

The next BIG Bang event to happen will be Christ returning. As a Doctor anyone who can look at the human body with its DNA and the complex being that we are and think this happened by chance and not design skipped thier Bio classes. We find a fossil of a fish with legs on this same website they are showing you pictures of conjoined twins skeletons so in 100 years will people think we all had two heads. One fossil makles a nice museum peice 1000 makes an argument.

There are enough holes in evolution to drive a mack truck through it. But this isn't a battle between evolution and Intelligent Design or evolution and Creationism anyway. This is really a battle of worldviews - the atheistic/materialistic/naturalist worldview and the theistic worldview.

Evolution??? Evolution is a THEORY.
You are welcome to your theory. So are those that believe, or in other words, have a theory that God created man.

Common sense rules out evolution.
Natural selection would dictate that only a few select species would survive.
Why don't pigs fly or talk. Why just monkies able to "evolve".
Why science has observed is ADAPTATION.
There is zero evidence, or observation oof one species becoming a more acompletely new advanced species.

Why does religion always have to slow down the advancement of science?

Evolution's fine. Just don't tell me that the "Big Bang" started by itself. If so, where did the materials come from?

I should add, to those who would have creationism taught in science class; we do not teach creationism in science class for the same reason that we do not teach magic in physics class and the stork theory of birth in sex-ed class. It is mythology.

As for our President who claims to support the teaching of creationism in science class because "both sides of the argument should be taught", then he should also support teaching evolution in Sunday-school. And when teaching creationism, does he (and his ideological supporters) advocate teaching polytheisticv origins of life, or just his own Christian monotheistic beliefs?

I'm sure you have the same disdain for evolution when your doctor gets you healthy with practices and medication based on biology and yes belief in evolution. Confortable then right?

Cliff F. - humans and monkeys evolved from a common ancestor, which would have had similarities to both. And why wouldn't other descendants of that common ancestor still be around? If lines of descent split, neither has to go extinct.

And evolution doesn't say that you shouldn't believe in God. Both are compatible. There are many evolutionary biologists who believe in God.

No one can fathom the possibility that maybe the scientific community and the those who are religious are correct? If God can make the universe can't he oversee evolution too?

Everyone is talking about planet earth, what about our infinite universe? Did it evolve--I don't think so.If anything has evolved it is because of God's will.

As a dog owner, I can tell you that my dog is very intelligent but did not evolve from any cells of a creature that man did. Evolution is fine but only after stating that all was created and allowed to evolve by the Creator and not chance. Man's mind should show people how man is nowhere near related to animals.

Evolutionists make fun of Creationists
as backwards or fooled by religion.

Those same folks gladly tell us where we came from by trying to read bones that they say are a MILLIONS of years old.

I will take what the Bible says over what some old bones may say to some old professors trying to get tenure.

To Reason:
Because, unfortunately, fools and fanatics of both sides confuse the fools and fanatics of the other sides as the authority of that other side...
...instead of realizing that the ones bein' loud, hot and bothered, are just the overgrown simian howler monkeys of mankind.
I'm realigious. I'm a Christian (Baptist), even... but, my beliefs in no way inhibit science. Indeed, I think the Creator intends for us to use our brains; that's why life was given the ability to evolve them.
Now, if the idiots will just stop howling, maybe we can get some serious science accomplished.

Like, health and healing of mankind. Somatic genetic engineering and cloning: medicines of the future that should be medicines of the now.

Also like: bringing the green earth back to health... we ARE supposed to be taking care of the place. THAT is ALSO in Genesis. (not that the Fundamentalists are willing to acknowledge that).

Or, solving poverty. Not that the Fundamentalists are willing to acknowledge THAT either. *sigh* Clinton and Carter: hope they actually salvage some of the true believing thinkers, from the howling dynamite monkeys of doom and gloom.

I'm one of those Religious nuts who really does believe in evolution. I believe that if we continue to work on the theory of evolution, we, as Einstein said, are really walking in God's footsteps. Besides, how could someone writing a book 3500 years ago (even God inspired) explain evolution for those reading it to understand.

I believe I'm a descendant of one of those religious nuts who 500 years ago believed that the earth was round.

Why does religion always have to slow down the advancement of science???

Because without religion,there would be only manipulation and lies left to debate. Just use your common sense.

Fundamentalists Conservatives are always anti-science... until they get a serious illness.

Then all of a sudden it's: "Hey Science, old buddy old pal. No hard feelings, right? Let's let bygones be bygones. Come here, Science. Let me give you a hug. It's you and me Science!"

The heck with evolution, I believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster......

ElodieStClair,

I hope you are joking.

No one is anti-science. We are pro-truth.

I'd recommend that all the posters here who are confused about evolution and the overwhelming scientific evidence supporting it sign up for an introductory anthropology or evolutionary biology course at their local college or university - that should help answer your questions.

Evolution=more $$$$$ for the Liberals.

Upon reading the "religious" responses left on this blog, it is UP-SETTLING obvious that we have a LONG way to go before we can rid the world of the plague that is religion. Quite sad, but profoundly true.

God created evolution.

For those who don't believe that Dog, Apes or Man have nothing geneticly in common need to take a long look at the skeletal struture. Wow... and 2 eyes, mouths, noses, ears, front legs (arms) back legs all in the general areas. And breasts? Girls, are you glad that God got the placement of breasts in Cows out of his system before he created man/women.

EVIDENCE?? WHAT EVIDENCE DO WE HAVE OF
EVOLUTION?

IT IS A THEORY!!

People, people, come on! The earth is flat. Period. End of story.

Signed,
The Church, circa not that long ago

Oh, JC.

Ah, the plague of anti-intellectualism.

God put dinosaurs, etc. on earth so that they would all die, decompose, and over eons turn into coal and crude oil so that man could burn them up, trash the environment, cause global warming and live happily ever after. Also, in the Bible, 2 Peter 3:8, is found "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." - in other words, the time spans relating to the creation as set forth in the Bible are figurative. It probably didn't happen in one day or even a thousand, but billions. There is room within creationism for science.

Wow. I'm having trouble believing that some of the professional Christian responses here are real. When did the alegorical teachings of the bible drift into the realm of scientific fact? The US is getting dumber by the day.

If you ask me, it takes a lot more faith to believe in evolution than creation. The Bible isn't a science textbook, but when it touches on matters of science it is remarkably accurate. Isaiah 40:22 says "There is one who is dwelling above the circle of the earth,"... this was written a long time before "enlightened" man thought the world was flat. People want to believe in evolution, so they aren't accountable to anyone.

The very first time I saw a film clip showing a fishlike creature slowly turning into a non-fishlike creature the first thing I thought was "that looks just like a tadpole turning into a frog". I just don't get how anyone can say evolution is is impossible when it happens every spring when a tadpole (fishlike)slowly evolves into a frog. If God can do this on a such a short scale why CAN'T he do it on a long, drawnout scale? if anything, it shows his creativity rather than cast doubts on his existence as some hardliners would have us believe.

I love it when people just post a few words from the Bible, "in the beginning..." That blogger is so dumb, as he/she just keeps repeating the same sentence that other sheep have uttered.

It's funny how, when it comes to, for example, some nutjob saying that they got abducted by aliens, Christians say, "well how do we know? Show us some evidence that aliens did this?" But when you ask them about Genesis, or how they know that Jesus is supposedly the son of God, they say, "oh i just believe it on faith." So they REQUIRE evidence for things they don't want to believe in (including evolution) but they DON'T REQUIRE proof for things they want to follow blindly.

Sounds to me like they are VERY scared that there is nothing after death. They prefer to believe stupid stories about "Samson" who had long hair, and then cut it and he lost all his power. Sounds like he's one of the X-Men or the Fantastic Four! Those are fairy tales, and these people are cowards for not admitting that the bible is just another book full of stories. Christians are trying to give answers because they fear the silence that might come after death. So they create a religion to make them feel better.

D: boy, that's a nice thought. Unfortunately, religion is all about instilling fear. By actually learning something in a science class they might develop doubts, or worse, critical thinking skills (gulp!) Then they'll ask rational questions, stop going to church, stop voting for religious fundamentalists, and possibly support true science education, stem cell research, oh, the possibilities are endless!

It is nice to refer to the "overwhelming proof" of evolution, but note the quote from the above article "It describes in detail the discovery of Tiktaalik, the four-legged fish fossil from the Canadian Arctic that appears to be the missing link between primitive fish and animals that walked up onto land." Notice it says appears to be the missing link. They still haven't found them. The "theory" of Creation has been around since... well... Creation!

There is plenty of evidence for the major truth claims of the Christian faith. I suggest you read I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist by Dr. Norman Geisler.

All of you bashing religion and the faith of good people are the real problem with America.

You want your teory of evolution taught in our schools bit will allow no mention of God.

You trying to do just what you accuse religion of doing---being closed minded.

Totally skipped by the scientific community is the ORIGIN of life, aka "abiogenesis" question. Did proteins exist before the ingenious RNA coding for them "evolved" or was the code written first (by random mutation and survival of the fittest of course). Neither makes sense via Darwinian evolution theory. Both Darwin and today's phylogeneticists conveniently state that EV can only explain the development of life from life, NOT the development of the FIRST cell, NOT the first virus, first bacterium, or first multi-cellular organism. With so many unanswered questions for this theory, why can not scientists at least agree to call it a "theory". Do science-minded people ever stop to calculate the probability that a 100 million "letter" genetic sequence for the first self-reproducing cellular organism just happened by chance? 100 billion monkeys typing at random for 14 billion years would hardly make a dent in such a task, perhaps effectively coming up with the equivalent of a 20-30 letter sequence of non-jibberish. If you are not afraid of reading him (I'm able to read both him and Dawkins), Michael Behe's LATEST book, 2007's "The Edge of Evolution" is excellent regarding a quantitative and mathematical analysis based on the few known observations of large scale evolution we have. A good read - NOT as emotional as Dawkins.

I suggest that people actually read this report that Ned has pointed out to us, from the most prestigious scientific organization in the country. It gives a good overview of the science of evolution and answers all of the scientific questions people are discussing here. Then we can talk.

This may seem harsh but it is a fact: if we had abolished science and sat on a rock and waiting and prayed for action most of us would have died long ago from privation, exposure, starvation, and disease.

If religion and creationism are fact then put it to the test like science. Forego electricity, forego medicine, forego employment, forego the military. Put your faith to the test. Let there be light. Let the mana feed you. Let those diseases cure themselves through faith. Who needs a military when heaven will send an army to defeat your enemies. Dispose of science. And that means all of it. And let's just see what results we will have.

If we wouldn't slip directly into the dark ages, I'd be stunned. If anything, once science was irradicated throughout the earth, in favor or miracles and faith, we would go so far backward, we'd be sitting with those apes, picking through each others hair wondering where do we go from here.

Put your religion to the test. Prove science wrong by dispensing with it entirely. It's really a simple proposition. If you have the proof then by all means, we are waiting.

I evolved from a Gumby figure. Or was it pokey? Dang...now I'm feeling just plain monk. Remember, God is a comedian who is playing to an audience that is afraid to laugh.

Most religions (even most christians) are "evolved" enough to know where the line between science and religion lies. Professional christians who are trying to incorporate their faith into the institutions of government and education are doing all of us - even themselves - a disservice. It sucks for the rest of us that christians score god points by projecting their beliefs on others - even those who don't want any part of it. Been true for ages I suppose. I guess we should be thankful that they can't burn people anymore.

Give it up people, we were created by the Great Spahgetti Monster!

GOD is too deep a subject for the so-called religious in the world. They want everything nice and tidy, in black and white. The fact is they are absolutely lost and aghast that they DO NOT know what life is all about. They are pathetic in that they cannot enjoy the gift of life they have, but would rather toil and anguish over trivial matters that amount to nothing in the end. Just because the Bible may be either mis-interpreted or changed over the ages DOES NOT rule out that GOD exists or does not exist... just relax and enjoy life. Don't F* up anyone else's life (like going to fight a war that is none of your business) in the process and things will (if they will at all) turn out OK in the end.

MICRO evolution has happened and continues to happen. Repeatable and falsifiable. No problem. MACRO evolution: i.e. a dog becoming a cat, has NEVER happened. There is NOTHING in the fossil record that shows anything like that. NO transitional forms. NOTHING!!!! Thus the RELIGION of evolution should not be taught as scientific fact but as a theory. Now how about teaching children to actually observe, think, and do REAL science, not pseudo-science.
Anytime that you come to a conclusion based on assumptions,,,,well, you know what happens. Macroevolution; requires a complete change of genetic code, not a loss of code as happens with mutation. Macroevolution; requires many thousands of transitional forms, none exist. Macroevolution; the belief that one species can and has become another species without the slightest bit of concrete evidence. YOU DECIDE, who will you run to?

I consider myself a religous person who believes in the theory of evolution.I have never believed in the Adam and Eve explanation of how the human race came to exist, because it kind of seems ridiculous to me, but I do believe though that through out our lives God sends us "signs of truth" or explanations of how the universe and everything in it was created. I think those explanations come to us in the form of science.In other words, it is through science that God explains to us the origins of the universe. This may sound crazy to any one who reads it, but it is what I believe.

To those denying evolution within humans, ever wonder why you have a tail bone but no tail? Or an appendix?

It's ridiculous to even address Creationism as a "theory." It's a religious belief and nothing more.

I have no issue with those that embrace religion and believe in God. Good for you. I have great issue with religous fanatics that believe only THEIR religion is correct, only THEIR people chosen, only THEIR beliefs blessed.

Amazing how religious zealots continue to try to hold science back. It didn't stop the Renaissance and it won't be stopped by these Christian zealots.

The argument is far more basic then most are stating here. Being one that was never subjected to organized religion, I come from an unbiased point of view. I find the basic issue with religion and the people that follow religion is that they can not except the fact that when they close their eyes for the last time, most likely there will be nothing...it will be the end. This is basic human weakness and religion helps feed that weakness and therefore helps people justify their tiny existence. The facts are plan…..you can quote books, articles and whatever you want. All species evolved from lower species over billons of years (that's right "billions"). That is the very concept that as human beings we have difficulty conceiving within our own minds...we can hardly think past a few years, let a lone billions of years. This is also the weakness that has been preyed upon by organized religion for is own political and financial benefit. People will continue to live in the self imposed fantasy because they are too weak to do otherwise. The lies portrayed by religious people, such as, standing on the edge of the Grand Canyon and telling their followers that it was created by the “Great Flood” is not only pathetic but dangerous. If anyone questions the importance of separation of Church and State, they should just reference countries such as Iraq or Iran…

Duane - there are many, many transitional forms in the fossil record, as this overview points out. The four-legged fish that Ned mentions is one of many. Whoever told you there is no evidence is lying to you.

Macroevolution, for the most part, is simply the gradual accumulation of microevolutionary changes, although there are some developmental mechanisms that can result in more rapid changes. It not only HAS happened, but we have a great deal of evidence for it. Much of this evidence is summarized in the NAS document, which I can tell that no one here has read yet.

"If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down."
--Charles Darwin, Origin of Species

you will never convince folks that they too have to prove facts. Test your creationist theories; not a chance. All religions are just overpopulated cults. Every one of them started with less than a handful of followers. Every one of them were ridiculed. Every one of them were on the fringe, fanatical, imaginary according to the powers of the time. Then they move locations, or convince people slowly but surely, and now they are a religion. Now their 'truths' are fact. But none of them will dispense with medicine, government, or weapons which betrays a lack of true gut faith. After all doesn't the lord feed the birds in the trees? How much moreso will he care for you. Then put it to the test. Of course all religious texts say never to question or test god. See that way no one can ever prove they are rubbish.

To all the creationists who posted, which God are we talking about? Every religion has a different God/s and every religion says their God/s created life. So which is it?

It's argument's like this that prove how little difference there is between truly intelligent man and monkey's.

I will never forget an eye doctor at work giving and informative lecture on how the eye works to the rest of us. It was very informative and amazing. He concluded with saying, "you can't tell me something like this came from monkey's". Ugh, don't monkey's have the same amazing eye?

One Question, if evolution is true, then there would have had to be a BIG BANG right? so where did that little ball that blew up come from, Can someone tell me that.

Just think...one day we will all know the Truth.

No no, I got it. We have to combine evolution and faith. We evolved from monkeys...and God made us in hid image...so God must be a monkey. Problem solved, now can't we all just get along? :)

Dave..I myself think that that big bang came from God. I believe evolution is God's design and all that Darwin did was glimpse some of the genius of God. What we see in the bible and in Genesis in particular is an ancient man's attempt to explain how the world came to be. And I don't think that that guy used any scientific observation to come up with his story of creation. Darwin and Einstein have only done a better job of explaining God's works. Evolution and belief in God are not mutually exclusive.

So, we don't know where the ball that made the Big Bang, so that means that you have to have faith to believe in evolution, doesn't that make it a religion?

Justme - where do you get 6000 years in relationship to the Bible? No one knows for certain WHEN God created the earth. We don't know how long Adam, Noah or Moses actually lived. We don't know that they counted years the same way we do. There is no where in the bible that states the earth was created 6000 years ago. SOME people have ASSUMED it, by applying today's definitions to events long ago, but there is no reason to think we SHOULD apply today's definitions to events recorded in the early chapters of the Bible.

But yet they cant say how eyes "evolved"

Um, no, it doesn't make it a religion Dave. Faith without theology isn't a religion. Nice try.

Where are all the fossils of creatures that evolved? There should be millions of them but in reality there are none? Also how does one create life out of non-life?

Rudiger V. "If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down."
--Charles Darwin, Origin of Species. If Darwin himself said that his theory no longer works by what he wrote, than why do we still believe in the theory of evolution. The creator of Evolution says it doesn't work, so why do we still believe, is it maybe that humans don't want to believe in a God, they don't like the idea of something bigger ruling their life.