Science and Society

Christopher Hitchens, although clever and adroit in his use of language, presents only superficial and decorative defenses of his theses. He has a clearly rebellious attitude towards any form of established authority. Finding faults in theism gives him a convient playground in which to indulge his charming word games.

Is the media obselete? Rapidly advancing is the belief that YES... it IS!!!

"Is God obsolete?"

Don't be so naive.

God is just as relevant as ever before with all the discoveries of Science. It all points to a Maker that really thought out everything very well. Just like God says, "It was good."

God is so amazing but you can't know about it if you don't learn everything about God. : )

"Does science make belief in God obsolete?"

I agree with the "absolutely not," although it may well be true that science makes it EASIER to switch to atheism.

The problem is that the existence of God is simply not a scientific question. Science cannot and should not have anything to say about it.

I don't think religion is intended to answer the same questions that science does - and someone's personal religious beliefs are their business. What some people fail to recognize, is when their beliefs stop being personal and start being written into law, or taught in public schools, they are subject to scrutiny and criticism.

Wow abc has an article called "is god obsolete" and an article called "is god a figament of imagination" all in one day, is this a pattern of anti-religion by abc? i wouldnt be surprised.

"i find it hard to believe in something that requires me to give ten percent of what i make to a god who does not need it"

lol that 10% doesnt go to god, it goes to they people in need and for the costs of church. pastors need money to survive like the rest of us and many of the hungry and homeless have only us to look to for help. I find religion helpful because it gives me comfort knowing that something exists after death, what a sad life it would be knowing that when you die, your conciousness ceases to exist.

i find it interesting that so far, none of the prophecies in the bible have been proved false and some, such as the return of israel, have come true. they are already have plans to rebuild the solomon's temple, probably wont happen anytime soon but the fact that they have plans already set out for it is quite interesting.

"we are still killing people today in the name of religion"

While technically true, I'm not sure that is the main reason. I think without religion we would still find some excuse to kill each other.

Religion and faith do tend to make some people fanatical, but others seem to resist this. So again I am not sure how much is just human nature.

I find it interesting that some say religion is harming the evolution of man. National Geographic, a magazine always leaning toward the evolution side, wrote an article on long life, showing that at least one religion in general terms allowed for longer life. i would say that longer life is an advance in the human race, not a hindrance.

Also those who say, those who beleive in god also beleive in holy wars obviously dont know the teachings in the bible. What the catholics did in the middle ages against the muslims was despicable, just as despicable as what some of the fanatic muslims are doing today. the teachings of the bible promote peace and turning the other cheek. having no religion wouldnt end wars, it would only intensify them as it would destroy morality. Example: if you were about to shoot someone in the head and you knew that there was no god, you would think that there would be no punishment after death for your crimes so killing another would be that much easier. If no one believed in god, then we would be just another species of animals basing all our actions on our primordial instincts, having no ethics or morals to look to because most of what we look to as "good and bad" comes from religion.

What should be asked is not “is God obsolete”, but is religion (in its current state) obsolete.

GOD is unknowable. The God that humans can conceive of cannot possibly be GOD.

First off the very question is a bit exclusionary. Why just god singular? or god rather than goddess? I think this is often the case when this debate is put forward in majority judeo-christian majority setting. But it probably makes a catchier slogan than "Are the gods.." Or, "Is the divine...".

You have to wonder what a supposedly pluralistic country with no establishment of religion is doing making hindu and buddhist citizens pass around money that says, "In god we trust".

I mean, of course we don't respect atheists, thats the american way. But disrespecting other people of faith is usually taboo.

Please nix the caps already. You're giving me a headache reading your post. Your free will whether you want to believe in God or not came from Him. And religion is not killing people, people are killing people and screaming it in the name of some religion. That's not religion, that's insanity, hate and violence. Peace to you.

Some people will always need a 'god'.

David, I have found that both "The National Geographic Channel and "The History Channel" have, along with their objective programs, programs that promote Christianity.

I think people today think they are soo smart, that they can answer everything and beleive that god doesnt exist based on the current information science has given us, and yet scientists cannot explain why there is a universe, even with the big bang theory. based on the theory there should be no universe, just expanding energy. When the big bang happened both matter and antimatter expelled from the explosion en equal amounts. (creating matter results in creating equal antimatter) So when they both were expelled they collided into eachother resulting in coversion into pure energy. Yet for some unknown reason there was more matter than antimatter resulting from the explosion which defies what science tells us.

Good night all. I'm leaving this conversation until it becomes civil.

Hebrews 11:1-Faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.

(We walk by faith not by sight)

If there is no God what is the point to life? Is it to study how we as human beings essentially just don't matter, I don't think so. As virtually minute as we are in this Universe I would rather be wrong and have faith in something than go through life with no hope, no faith and no meaning.

>>>>GOD IS GOOD!! <<<<

That's amazing that your husband's cancer was healed by God. Just one question Sue, why doesn't god heal amputees?

I'm not arguing for or against your god here, just wondering why it's always vague "healing" and never something obvious.

Science is based on empirical and mathematical proofs which are no longer parts of modern science. Today’s scientists sell themselves to the highest bidder and endeavor to replace empirical and mathematical proofs with nose counts and dollar totals. Modern scientists seek opinions and majority votes in understanding and explaining natural phenomena without regards to honest observations, rigorous experimentations, and solid mathematics. Modern science is political and shyster crock.

">>>>GOD IS GOOD!! <<<<

That's amazing that your husband's cancer was healed by God. Just one question Sue, why doesn't god heal amputees?

I'm not arguing for or against your god here, just wondering why it's always vague "healing" and never something obvious."

Indeed that is a good question but if you watch "Bruce Almighty" you might find a good answer to that. its a movie for modern times and it explains that answer in a funny way.

God will be around long after us humans go extinct. He always has been and always will be. -That is a simple definition of God... -No Bible (or Koran, or other religious book) needed for that definition. For those that don't believe in God, His existence will soon become obvious enough... -"It is a fool who has said in his heart 'there is no God.'"

>>>Indeed that is a good question but if you watch "Bruce Almighty" you might find a good answer to that. its a movie for modern times and it explains that answer in a funny way.>>>>

Sorry, I just can't accept that a Jim Carey movie contains any useful information.

Now, god may hate amputees. Could be they are just big babies who whine so much that it drives him crazy. Or it could be that God specializes in internal medicine or possibly in divine chemotherapy of sorts. Or maybe rebuilding limbs is just a lot of work and he's really busy. Maybe tumors are much easier and he's going for COSTCO-esque bulk miracles here.

I don't have the answer but I know if I were an amputee I would find God's track record a little distressing.

I just wish you people would stop denying the other gods though, I just don't know where you get off doubting them.

My God is alive and well. Thank you.

Example: if you were about to shoot someone in the head and you knew that there was no god, you would think that there would be no punishment after death for your crimes so killing another would be that much easier. If no one believed in god, then we would be just another species of animals basing all our actions on our primordial instincts, having no ethics or morals to look to because most of what we look to as "good and bad" comes from religion.

adam : there are different levels of moral development. Some people need the direction that religion can give, and some do not. I'm not worried about being punished in an afterlife, but I sure as heck know it's absolutely wrong to murder someone. It's really rather insulting when people say that without religion, there are no morals.

I have some answers for some of you..here they are:

Adam- I cannot answer why God doesnt heal amputees.. but I can tell you that there was a woman who had a goiter on her neck the size of a grapefruit and she woke up every morning and the first thing she would say was " Thank you God for healing me from my goiter" and people used to think she was crazy and say "Ugh!! its still there" but one morning as she woke up and began to thank God she looked in the mirror and it was gone.. not just a urban legend either I know her! Faith is very important. In the bible there was a woman who bled for many years and she said if she could just touch the cloak of Jesus she would be healed and when she did he turned to her and said "Woman your faith has healed you".

Adam- a different one not sure
Yes you are right Jesus filled over 300 oold testament prophecies that were about the coming messiah. He took 39 strikes with a cat and nine tails and was crucified yet none of his bones were broken!!

As for Free will.. its funny that you said He (meaning God) gave us free will tbelieve in him or not.. LMAO so your saying God said that I can believe he doesnt exist..lol

Bubba-
Ever think that losing a leg is a blessing because God spared a life?
Lets look at both sides here.

"My God is alive and well," said bubba.

Well... what God are you worshiping. It sounds like an idol.

How can one know the condtion of their God if it is superior to he/she? I mean you can say that you know God and what God wants and etc, but you know?
Many people attempt to twist faith and the e.g. "God approved" lable to their favor.

Define God.

Nevermind no one can, God is undefinable but still...

My cousin actually woke up one morning and FOUND a giant goiter on his neck. So clearly god is just shuffling this stuff around. That's not healing, he's just passing the buck around trying to confuse you SueEllen.

Honest and true. What? You don't trust anonymous text on the internet?

Also really it would be soo easy to have faith in a god that we all know physically exists. i mean its like saying a pizza right in front of you doesnt exist, what is the point in that. God wanted us to have true faith in him which means we dont know physically that he exists we just have that feeling and that urge to have faith in him and know that all will be well.

"My cousin actually woke up one morning and FOUND a giant goiter on his neck. So clearly god is just shuffling this stuff around. That's not healing, he's just passing the buck around trying to confuse you SueEllen.

Honest and true. What? You don't trust anonymous text on the internet? "

The fact is, god is not in control, the reason to that is because we have free will. When jesus fasted, the devil said to him that if he were to bow down to the devil, the devil would give him control of all the nations in the world. In the end times however this will all change.

Well, good to know youve got it all sorted out adam, but that's not the only view of god, or gods, or the divine.

I take comfort that faith in religion is plummeting with each generation. The Pew poll shows an 11 point drop in faith among 18-29yos since the late 80s.

That's why I love fundamentalists and creationists. They do more harm to religion than I ever could.

If there really is a god, then why did it let the little 10 year old girl die, who's parents prayed non stop for it to heal her diabetes. I quess they didn't have true faith then huh. Or maybe it's just gods way, or maybe the world is flat, and is the center of the universe.

I scoft bubba and adam with great humor. I laugh not at you, but... with you. You two are arguing the same cause. Who will win? It sounds really violent!

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LUBES
I am sorry for the passing a person with great potential. In faith we hope the best for her.

Well, good to know youve got it all sorted out adam, but that's not the only view of god, or gods, or the divine.

"I take comfort that faith in religion is plummeting with each generation. The Pew poll shows an 11 point drop in faith among 18-29yos since the late 80s.

That's why I love fundamentalists and creationists. They do more harm to religion than I ever could."

This poll actually is part of a prophecy in itself, as the anti-christ will use the notion that there is no god to dominate over all.

"If there really is a god, then why did it let the little 10 year old girl die, who's parents prayed non stop for it to heal her diabetes. I quess they didn't have true faith then huh. Or maybe it's just gods way, or maybe the world is flat, and is the center of the universe."

We have to remember that even though that girl did die, her soul lives on in heaven, which is a heck of a much better place than where we live now. If god were to answer everyone's prayer to cure from diseases and injuries, then we would all know that god exists and there would be no reason to put one's faith in the divine being because we know he is there. It is having that absolute faith and having complete trust in a god that many will try to argue his existance in that makes life feel like a test of one's will.

""That's why I love fundamentalists and creationists. They do more harm to religion than I ever could.""~adam

-LOL! Yep, together the fundamentalists and the creationists double team to help others and tell them what is what and how what is why what.

Yes the "the anti-christ will use the notion that there is no god to dominate over all" is somewhat commonly recited by some religious believers.

Yes there is some trfalseth with that statement. However, on the other worlds prespective polls are only pushed public if out of the e.g. "3" neibors or friends sevayed, a majory if by .000001 agreed such that one can sum up their minute intrestes and proclaim the world is coming to an end when it is. OR is the world's life expectcy growing loger as it is?

Hey, it's FAITH. It's not really discussable.

Dennis (nice name). we're here because a man and woman had sex. There is no meaning or purpose. So enjoy it while you can.

It puzzles me why God chooses to make it progressively harder for humans to believe. Today, after more than 2000 years have passed since either God or Christ has appeared in the flesh, it seems to me that it is much more difficult to believe that they exist than it was (i) for Abraham just after God had stopped by to eat lunch with Abraham and Sarah or (ii) for the women and the disciples who actually saw Christ shortly after the resurrection. And, if God does not appear for another 2000 years, imagine how hard it will be for a human to believe 2000 years from now, 4000 years removed from God's last appearance. If God is a God of love, why not give everybody an equally plausible basis to believe, regardless when they live?

Come on read and study the bible right. The soul of that girl is not in heaven. the bible clearly states that when we die we are no more until the second coming of Christ. if we are going to argue the bible, argue it in the right way. and no matter what we say, there is no proof either way. the only thing we have for the bible and God is a lot of evidence, no proof.

Urekia!
Faith=Moral*Mentalality/(displacment of time) squared.
That is not the correct equation how to illustrate Faith over a period of time but it is my good attempt that was poor.
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For all who say"Hey, it's FAITH. It's not really discussable."

I agree that I don't agree what you agree to. Ok?, never mind I just said what i said scrach the Ok? Ok?
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Your quote stadns out DennisNC, "we're here because a man and woman had sex. There is no meaning or purpose. So enjoy it..."
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DDD NO!!!!!! I know you are trying to tell the bibilcal truth but SHOW SOME COMPASION!!!!

We make fun of primitive people who worship tree and water gods, people who maintain mankind began when an intergalactic warlord intervened, etc. But then many, with no more evidence of their god than the aforementioned,espouse something just as goofy …… the mythology of Christianity. For others, it is superstition, while for Christians their theology is truth. There must be some intrinsic values in self-delusion.

[b]I agree with DenisNC[/b], "We [should] make fun of primitive people who worship tree and water gods, people who maintain mankind began when an intergalactic warlord intervened, etc," however if I did i would be religiousist to which isn't a word so I am NOT.

Take Note to this if it applies to you. Take Not Note to this if if applies not to you. [b]A majory of regligions share good morals and have similarties.[/b]

May the force be with you.

The method or god by which one chooses to relate to the All is certainly not obsolete. The practice of forcing others to relate to the All the same way most certainly is.

For all commits there exists a few that are false such that I will not point out but here is the evidence.
T T = T
T F = F
F T = T
F F = T

So, if you tell the truth you are telling the truth. If you tell a lie you are telling the truth for lying about laying. If you lie yet tell the truth, you tell the truth. HOWEVER IF you Tell the truth to lie you lie.

i read an interesting assertion the other day (my apologies to the author) stating something to the effect of " an empirical fact relies on the state of science at any given time while a religious fact is unchanging and eternal."

that simple statement perfectly describes the dichotomy that exits when religion and science are forcibly mixed together.

lord kelvin (i think) also said that anything that could not be defined or explained in detail by numbers/science wasnt worth worrying about probably anyway ...that was his implicit meaning more or less

define god first , then we can have a discussion . send a Connecticut Yankee to King Arthur's Court ,and you know he might be called a god too ... any sufficiently advanced culture's ways and means would put in awe and fear almost any sub culture ,eg; the monolith in 2001 space odyssey ...wasnt a god though there at the end ...or was it? ;)

EMF short term Unseen Forces DO Exist, get a magnit or too, some plain printer paper, and a lot of iron metal fine flakes. Put the magents on top of the white paper spread out a bit. Poor the metalic dust falkes over and walla you can see (not directly but indriectly) the invisiable. Just image if earth was in that kind of pardiciment....

DNA is a 3 Dimensional binary code & not some random chance lightning strike in a mud puddle''s soup of some prehistoric self-replicating molecule on the backs of crystals! WHO is The Programmer for DNA...Microsoft’s Mathematical Probabilities & Statistics Division of Nanotechnology? 1st law of Biogenesis is Life Begets Life. WHO is The Master Chef that used the correct recipe from the Periodic Table of Elements to cook up the Earth & every living thing on it to include the cell’s own universe? In regards to light speed being broken by radio waves is precisely the reason I no longer measure distance of space/time by light-year anymore than sound-years! The Earth isn't flat just evolution's argument about a simple cell! The following KeyWords & KeyPhrases are taken from the U.S. Declaration of Independence in 1776: “CREATOR, LAWS OF NATURE and of NATURE’S GOD, Divine Providence, Supreme Judge of the World”. “We hold these truths to be SELF-EVIDENT, that all Men are endowed by their CREATOR”... so much for the censorship of THE CREATOR’S CREATIONism! WHO put the light bulb in the sky called the sun & flipped the switch...Thomas Edison? Why is it in science class a student is allowed to ask What, Where, When, Why, & How but as soon as the science student asks The WHO question they are expelled from class discussion for end of discussion? A false premise leads to a false result. The high priests of the scientific establishment still do not know WHO made the first Wheel Circle like a Zer0 in the sky called the Sun (HHe) nor can scientists give the final mathematical answer to the beginning & end of said Sun/Circle/Wheel/Zero. Trying to find the mathematical answer of PI of a circle is like trying to find the end of a Rainbow's Circle, but the answer is simple. Having done the math PI’s precise final answer is...for me to know & for you to figure out. We tell time by the Atomic Clock's Nuclear Sun in space (space/time). Ironic that Earth, the water (H20) planet, can not exist without light (HHe). The Light created light just as The Son made the sun & Life from Light. Enlightenment exposes Dark Ages with Renaissance. Darkness exists only in the absence of light. When observable science clearly demonstrates Big-Bang explosives from bombs of war obliterate buildings & destroy life into extinction, how do Big-Bang explosions create Order out of Chaos? 1st law of Biogenesis is Life Begets Life.

Have they take out the thing where you sware on the Bible or God's blessed name in the obsolite court system yet? I mean, if i was ever called to the stand for anything for anyreason and ask if i would sware by the truth and nothing but the truth so help me God, i would say, NO I DON"T!!! Please say yes they have takeing that out of the system?

a simpler way of looking at it might be to use set theory .

2 possibilities =

x = no god exists

y = all powerful / all knowing god does exists

first ,lets let x be true... then consequently there is no superset for the human experience, so far anyway ...that is ; so far as we know ,and as far as GODISNOTREAL is concerned , we humans (and perhaps some other primates) are the most advanced life forms ,ie ; sentient beings in the universe. ok , that might be how things are ,but look at the obverse situation before we go further ...

y = true ...that is; if some all powerful all knowing god DOES exist ,then it is a superset to the total human experience even up to this second, being ,and having included in itself , all we are, all we have been ,and all we will ever be ,in some way that we as lesser beings (much like fish in a fishtank ) will really never be aware of to any cogent degree ,unless that deity itself were to allow such knowledge or awareness.

so there is why this argument cant be won by any logical argument . logic states that ,per the above , if god does exist as defined ,it/he/she is inclusive of you and me and our science and logic.

Religion only works when you "accept" it, not when you "question" it. That's why you don't find many religious scientist.

Organized Religion is a nice little system to maintain public control. Nothing less, nothing more. You can't learn anything truly new from it though because it is based on trust and doctrine rather than logic and observation.

This is such a tired argument. Religion and science ARE NOT THE SAME THING. Science is trying to answer the question "How does the universe work?" Religion tries to answer "Why?" To dismiss science as somehow against God is breathtakingly ignorant. To dismiss God because He cannot be emperically proven is breathtakingly arrogant.

Q: If science is so smart, why can't they answer how was the Universe created? What started the Big Bang? Who created DNA? Must be a deity, right?
A: Just because our current technology and understanding is limited, it does not mean that the 'unkowns' have to be associated with the mystery man in the sky. For example, if I were to travel back in time and tell Christoper Columbus I can communicate with people half the world away instantly, he would no doubt call me a God. In modern times, it's called a cell phone...

God to me have the same connotation as Santa Claus, Nessy, Big Foot or Tooth Fairy: imaginary being used as a place holder for myths yet to be explained. But someday, hopefully we will grow up and understand that Santa Claus is just your parents, Nessy is just a log, Big Foot is just a bear, and the Tooth Fairy and God are just figments of your imagination. Lies to comfort yourself.

GOD IS!!! I LOVE IT. IT IS SO AMUSING TO READ WHAT THE SO-CALLED SCIENTIST COME OUT WITH AND WORK SO HARD TO TRY TO PROVE THAT GOD DIDN'T CREATE THE UNIVERSE AND EARTH AND EVERY CREATURE ON IT. IT IS HILARIOUS TO HEAR THESE "EDUCATED" PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THE BIG BANG THEORY......IT WILL ALL GO INTO THE COMIC PAGES OF HEAVEN. GOD MUST BE ENTERTAINED EVERY DAY WATCHING THESE PEANUT BRAINS TRY TO EXPLAIN SOMETHING AND BRING IT DOWN TO WHAT THEY CAN UNDERSTAND.....WHEN HE ALREADY TOLD MANKIND OF HOW IT CAME ABOUT, AT LEAST EVERYTHING WE NEEDED TO KNOW. AND THERE IS NO RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN APES AND MANKIND EXCEPT WE ARE ON THE SAME PLANET. THERE WAS NO SUCH THING AS CAVE MEN EXCEPT PEOPLE WHO DESIRED TO LIVE IN ONE. THE FIRST MAN WAS VERY INTELLIGENT AND GAVE EVERYTHING IT'S NAME. IT IS TIME TO GET WITH THE REALITY OF CREATIONISM SINCE IT IS REAL AND LEAVE OUT THE FAIRY TALES OF EVOLUTION. GOD DID A GREAT JOB DIDN'T HE?

Thanks Ned, mine wasn't crashing but It was getting way too time consuming to continue. Now I have to play catch-up.

DeHart-Starr
Using all caps in computer messaging is considered shouting. Most of us do not read them as they are much more difficult to decipher. PLEASE DONT!

adam
If you are a believer you had better hope that they dont rebuild that temple.
It's return was phrophesized to signal armagedon or some thing like that. But, then again, that is another legend borrowed from Babylon.

Amazing G
Re: "GOD is unknowable"
astute observation. I concur.

bubba
Re: Are "the gods" dead?
Ah yes, especially on Galactica.

But if I may quote an old Pogo cartoon:
GOD IS NOT DEAD, HE IS MERELY UNEMPLOYED.

Is this for real?

Religion is a dialog tool with oneself as well as a survival tool for individuals and societies alike! Sciences, can either help us to survive or help us destroy ourself. So since, their objectives are different and similar at the same time, it is biaised to even use one to destroyed another...

We are all entitled to our beliefs...but I firmly believe taking Prayer out of schools was the worst things that could have happened. We like to blame God for everything....so if there isnt a God why blame him. I say blame the government for NOT allowing us as parents to raise our children with rules and respect and religion...put prayer back in school and take out guns, drugs and crime. Why is ok for the Koran to have footbaths in some colleges an universities in order to pray but not for the rest of us. If they want to live here in teh USA (any race) live by the rules you promised when you took the oath. Now get off our backs and allow us to Love, Respect and Pray to our Holy Father. YES, GOD exists...he walks with us everyday and if you wake up each morning with or without a leg.......ThANK GOD.

DC
If you leave out the old testament I'll agree with you.

=represents parallel lines going on forever & any intersection of said points equates to either symbols illustrated by a symbol such as y, +, x to demonstrate the first connecting point of space/time. x = no god exists is false logic because the intersection of two parallel lines=The Cross & proves God exists in OmniSCIENCE, Omnipotence, & Omnipresence of past, present, & future of space/time! A true understanding of a circle and the Archimedes Fibonacci Mendelbrot fractal geometry spiral as seen throughout all of nature and of "Nature's God" (i.e. a snail shell, DNA, galaxy, the way a flower unfolds) is apparent. As for the panspermia argument I suggest reviewing what comet Shoemaker-Levy did to Jupiter in 1994.

Jock
I caught up on the comments on the other thread. The "cat" tracks that david was talking about were Permian, not Cretaceous. He also was telling you that I claimed that they were reptilian.
What I actually said was that they were more likely therapsid and suggested that he look at the Wiki page on Gorgonopsids for an example. Typically he ignored what I said. I had mentioned that therapsids used to be called mammal-like reptiles but I guess that past tense did not sink in. They were protomammals and some could make such a track which is neither actually cat-like nor dog-like but closer to bear-like (plantigrade}. I have seen all three types in my front yard; cougar, black bear and my own dogs. The bear and dog tracks were easy as I saw the animals making the tracks. The cougar had me puzzled until two days ago when someone finally gor a photo of it - a true cryptid - a dark gray/black cougar (night shot with flash). Until then I was guessing small cougar or big bobcat.
The point is that I live in an area where these animals live and know what cat tracks look like. Big cats can not fully retract their claws like a house cat and digit placement is more parallel than that picture.

Creodonts did not appear until the Oligocene as far as I know but they would have a similar track but with visible claw marks.

adam
Re: "What the catholics did in the middle ages against the muslims was despicable, just as despicable as what some of the fanatic muslims are doing today"
If the history of the old testament is true, the jews were much worse, wiping out an entire sinful civilization in the name of god. Men, women, children, their animals too because they were tainted by sin. Want to talk about radicals?

DC
Lost a house (1983 to fire), have given a five or a ten to help a stranger get home (probably went towards a bottle but its not my nature to say no) and have read much of the Catholic bible (no old testament), parts of the King James and one that was from a Born Again with large type for my old eyes.
But I am first and foremost a solid believer in reality, evolution and Einstien (yes I have read "Reletivity").
But I do not accept the old testament as literal truth or history and find much of it highly immoral.

The problem with "God" is that there's no definition we all agree on. What is it? What does it do? Science has resolved many mysteries that used to be answered by "God made it" or "God did it." No doubt more mysteries will be solved as science advances. So, if we no longer need to rely on the notion that "God did it" but can instead look to science for answers, then "God" as an omnipotent being who dabbles in the affairs of man is, indeed, obsolete. We don't need "God" to understand climate patterns, natural disasters, biology, animal behavior, etc. All of these "mysteries" are now satisfactorily answered by science. Many people rest on a notion of "God" as a vague, fuzzy intelligence that is just "out there somewhere" and doesn't really do anything, but just exists as a concept. That's fine -- but it's not a thing to worship. What would be the point? I think that if we are truly rational and sane, and consider that we no longer need to rely on the idea of a "God" to live meaningful, happy lives, we can dispense with the concept altogether. Some people, of course, are so afraid of the unknown, of death, of finality, that they need this idea of a "God" that loves you and has a "plan for your life." That's just nonsense, but if it makes you happy, then that's fine. Just keep it to yourself and don't try to force it on everyone else.

"To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible." - Thomas Aquinas

The more we learn, the more we can see the wonder power of God. God has lay this stuff out for us to find. Those of faith understand this. Those not of faith never cared anyway.

It is not God that is obsolete, it is our faith that is coming to extinction such is proven by the pestilence in our society. School shootings. Mass murders. Infidelity. Hate. Lack of commitment in marriage. These behaviors will make us obsolete which is why God created His bible for us--so that we may know how to survive.

For those cynics that taunt Christians because of our beliefs, maybe your holy and genius selves can better explain just how gravity is sustained and created. Maybe you can finally and correctly calculate for us the probabilities of creation from nothing. Don't forget to include in your calculations that we have a perfect temperature on earth to sustain life as well as atmosphere. You'll need the probability from that in order to determine the beginning of life.

When life began, maybe you could further give us the probabilities of animal life's beginnings with that of plant life because they're both needed to sustain the other.

What you'll find is that the creation of the world from nothing is improbable; actually, impossible. In your arrogance, like Satan, you self-actuators believe you come from nothing to which you will find that's where you'll end--nothing.

Good luck to you. As for those who keep the faith, God Bless to us.

English: "I say blame the government for NOT allowing us as parents to raise our children with rules and respect and religion."

The government in no way prevents this. It would be unconstitutional to do so.

BT: "Don't forget to include in your calculations that we have a perfect temperature on earth to sustain life as well as atmosphere."

That actually is reasonably likely, considering the billions of stars out there. And the fact that WE happen to be on this one is irrelevant, because if the conditions were NOT appropriate, then we wouldn't be here to contemplate it in the first place.

Not that any of that really says anything about God and faith. My point is that trying to "prove" it scientifically will remain problematical. Faith should be enough.

Atheism is enlightenment and we'll all get along with one another once we all become enlightened.

God has been pushed back to BEFORE the Big Bang by the increasing ability of science to answer most (but not all) questions relating to events AFTER.
Science can not test beyond this limit. Proof is absent, therefore religion takes over for those who need it.

Cant you accept the fact that there can truly be nothingness? why did "god" let an 80 year old man rape a baby? why did "god" make serial killers torcher innocent people on a daily basis, wait wait, let me guess thats not "gods work" right? If heaven was so awesome, why put us be on earth? why go through the hassle? the bible should go in the science fiction section of the library.

"adam
If you are a believer you had better hope that they dont rebuild that temple.
It's return was phrophesized to signal armagedon or some thing like that. But, then again, that is another legend borrowed from Babylon" ~Quietman

Actually i hope that time is coming because that means the end times are coming which also means all the beleivers will be taken up to heaven, inculding me.

adam: "Actually i hope that time is coming because that means the end times are coming which also means all the beleivers will be taken up to heaven, inculding me."

Please know I am only joking, but my first evil thought on reading this was "we could just shoot you now." But you sound like a good guy so I guess we'll keep you around, LOL

What I really worry about is that this apocalyptic "end times" deathwish was somehow involved in the Bush administration MidEast policy. It really looks like some people are trying to force a conflagratio