A Meeting of Skeptical Minds

I wonder. Could one have gotten a larger discount before Christmas? I got 75 percent off of a sweater.

This seems typical. The Heartland Institute previously tried to publish a list of "hundreds" of scientists who were "doubters." Over half of the ones contracted did not know they were on the list, did not want to be on the lists, and believed the exact opposite of what Heartland claimed. This is called FRAUD, and some people were talking about lawsuits.

Lying is about all the deniers have left.

I once tried to verify some of the names on that Oregon list.

At least half of the names seemed to be completely fictitious, since there were zero Google entries for them.

The ones that seemed to be actual people were all non-scientists, retired scientists, or dead scientists.

Is there even one active scientist on that list?

Well seeing how several of the mass excitations in the past had very high levels of CO2 and other green house gasses in the atmosphere I think it is obvious from that alone that CO2 is very dangerous in high amounts. When you add to that the mounting evidence from around the globe it is impossible not to come the logical conclusion that CO2 can kill us all if it reaches dangerous concentrations in the atmosphere.

Nathan - so you are saying hi levels of CO2 were present during several previous periods of mass extinctions. Since mankind was not there for those historic events and therefore could not have contributed to the problem, how does one conclude that it is "man's" contribution now that IS the problem? The earth seems quite capable of causing this al by itself, and by the way, did you know that one relatively modern day major volcanic eruption put more CO2 and other air born contaminants into the atmosphere than all of man's byproducts combined? Good to really know your science before drawing conclusions to theories.

Studies are easy to find that show that CFC's are a a catalyst in ozone depletion in the Earths stratosphere. Since the ban of the major sources of CFC's, studies have shown a decrease of global cfc levels. CFC's are man made chemicals and do not ocurr naturally and are not found in geological studies at levels prior to human use. Climate temp increases are not attributed to CO2 levels alone.

California girl. You are correct. But I think Nathan missed the logic, even if he may have had some factual/ scientific backing.
CO2, long before Climate Change was an idea, was understood to be a "greenhouse" gas. Traps heat. And its effect is quite well understood.
So in the end, if the CO2 (and other man made greenhouse gases) is added to the mix by man, or if Earth occasionally contributes en-mass, the result will be the same. We can't do anything about Earth's contribution, but we certainly should keep on assessing our part in the contribution, and how our part will impact our lives, and that of our descendants.

Are these the same people that are saying that men has nothing to do with polluting the atmosphere but it is the cows fault and their "gases"??? Men deserve to self-destruct, I am just sorry of all the other innocent creatures paying the price for it...

califonria girl: All the volcanos on Earth emit about 200 million tons of CO2 per year. Human burning of fossil fuels emits about 26,800 million tons of CO2 per year. So volcanos are responsible for less than 1% of what humans are doing.

Is this the science you speak of?

California girl:
"Good to really know your science before drawing conclusions to theories." - You should take your own advice.

I don't think they allow post urls here, but this is from a usgs.gov site:
"Scientists have calculated that volcanoes emit between about 130-230 million tonnes (145-255 million tons) of CO2 into the atmosphere every year (Gerlach, 1999, 1991). This estimate includes both subaerial and submarine volcanoes, about in equal amounts. Emissions of CO2 by human activities, including fossil fuel burning, cement production, and gas flaring, amount to about 27 billion tonnes per year (30 billion tons) [ ( Marland, et al., 2006) - The reference gives the amount of released carbon (C), rather than CO2, through 2003.]. Human activities release more than 130 times the amount of CO2 emitted by volcanoes--the equivalent of more than 8,000 additional volcanoes like Kilauea (Kilauea emits about 3.3 million tonnes/year)! (Gerlach et. al., 2002)"

Not to mention that if volcanic eruptions were the main source of CO2 there would be very noticeable spikes in CO2 levels after large eruptions. Instead, the rise in CO2 levels has been gradual and smooth for well over the past century.

california girl go look up the term super volcano and go look up the Siberian Basalt Flats, those natural phenomenon that are thousands of times more deadly than any natural disaster we have seen in the last 100,000 years. Our very own Yellowstone National Park is a super volcano the last time it erupted it was at least 1,000 times stronger than mount Saint Helens, it poured millions tons of CO2 into the atmosphere within the first day. The Siberian Basalt Flats was even worse, it poured toxic gas and CO2 for a million years and spewed enough magma to cover the lower continental United State of America in several miles worth of magma. Now what several other people have said is true the earth only contributes a tiny bit of the CO2 and other greenhouse gases that are in the atmosphere, thus you cannot blame global warming on the earth unless something major happens such as the Siberian Basalt flats open again or a super volcano goes off.So with all due respect you need to go do your research on natural emissions before you speak up because your data is flawed.

Volcanic gases vary by location. CO2 is not a large output by most volcanos, remember that it is a trace gas in nature. The climate changing fases emitted by volcanos are hydrocarbons and ash or soot and sulphur. SO2 is quite common from some such as the recently active ones in Asia. These different volcanic products can either cause a cooling or warming effect and can spew out other chemicals at the same time that negate the effects.

correction: fases s/b gasses

You can't possibly believe we are getting the truth on AGW! The media loves to sensationalize. The political parties have picked sides. Neither side wants to admit ANYTHING the other side says is true. The truth is somewhere in the middle. Yes CO2 is a greenhouse gas. Yes man is having an effect. Yes we need to find better energy sources for the future. But CO2 is A DRIVER of climate. Not THE DRIVER of climate. It is a trace gas. There are other factors involved like sun cycles and volcanoes and ocean cycles and clouds. And there will be additional factors discovered in future as we gain knowledge. Let's move forward with calm heads stop the panic.

California girl:
You are on the right track. Look into what causes volcanos for the answer.

inthemiddle
Actually, in nature CO2, like all GHGs, is a feedback rather than a driver. While it does help in warming as a positive feedback, it is not actually a driver. That is why there is a very large lag time in the ice core records.
Throughout most of the Mesozoic period CO2 was extremely high. Life flourished in areas that are frozen solid today because the world was a tropical paradise. We evolved from prosimians in the Eocene, the PETM, 55 million years ago, was our benefactor.
But GHGs did not cause it, they maintained it. But they could not stop the onset of the Neogene-Holocene Ice Age.

NBP, the figures cited for volcanic emissions include the eruptions of Krakatoa, Pinatuba, Mt. St. Helens, etc., etc. -- they include ALL emissions, including eruptions of undersea volcanos you've never heard of.

You need to go back (hundreds of?) thousands of years (maybe millions) to get volcanic eruptions that come anywhere close to the current level of anthropogenic CO2 emissions. And we do this EVERY YEAR, not just once every 100,000 years.

Also note that the net effect of volcanos is primarily to COOL the planet due to increased aerosols.

California Girl was wrong, and you were wrong. Facts are a stubborn thing, and you'll only make a fool of yourself by trying to evade them or invent your own data.

NBP if I am wrong then please enlighten us to how come the earth is warming so fast even though the sun is actually cooler than it was 50 years ago.

Nathan
Lag time. The sun heats the oceans (most of the earths surface) and releases that heat to atmosphere slowly.
The lag is roughly 10 years.

James

"Also note that the net effect of volcanos is primarily to COOL the planet due to increased aerosols."

"Facts are a stubborn thing, and you'll only make a fool of yourself by trying to evade them or invent your own data."

I think that you need to study volcanism a bit more. Not all volcanos are the same. A blanket statement can not be made for their emissions/output.